Just Contract the Pathetic Pittsburgh Pirates Already
Baseball June 4th. 2009, 2:00pm
Nate McLouth had an outstanding season in 2008. He was an apparition on another laughably bad, contract-these-scrubs 67-win Pittsburgh team. He appeared to be the consummate centerfielder – speed (23 steals), power (26 homers), defense*, and he possessed the ability to hit leadoff. The Yankees, among others, supposedly coveted him.
The logical move was to sell McLouth high – deal the budding star to one of those silly, free-spending teams. Plus, 2005 1st rounder Andrew McCuthchen was waiting in the minor league system for his shot. What’d the Pirates do?
They kept McLouth, of course – perhaps because McCuthchen slumped a bit in the minors in 2008. McLouth opened 2009 slightly less impressively than he did last year, and two months into the season, and four games under .500, Pittsburgh traded him to Atlanta for two supposedly promising prospects and another guy. None of the trio appears Major League-ready (certainly not the guy who went 4-8 with a 6.15 ERA in Atlanta last year). And it’s worth noting that the “best bat” in Atlanta’s minors, Jordan Schafer, who had a torrid April, is already back in the minors.
What a terrible move. Did they underestimate how hard the economy might affect ticket sales? (Pittsburgh’s last in the majors in attendance.) Why now? Seems like Pirates fans are, asking the same thing. One blog points out that in the last year, the Pirates have traded three very good outfielders: Jay Bay (Boston), Xavier Nady (Yankees), and McLouth. Despite getting some decent pieces in return, they can’t seem to land any studs the way the Marlins and Rays have in the past decade.
The Pirates have a total payroll of $48 million this season – by far lowest in their division (next worst: Cincinnati Reds, $73 million). There may not be a direct correlation between payroll and success (the Marlins and the Rays have been the exceptions to the rule in the last decade, with a couple of other teams), but there’s no way, with or without McLouth, that Pittsburgh is contending against the Cubs and Cards in the Central. So again – why deal him now?
Take two, maybe four teams out of MLB and you drastically increase the talent pool. It’ll never happen, but if a draft were held with players from, say, San Diego, Pittsburgh, KC and Washington, the bottom 1/3 of the league would be greatly improved and not looking to dump salary in early June.
* You’re either in the ‘he won a Gold Glove last year’ camp, or the kind of guy who swears by stats like ‘Defensive runs saved.’
84 Responses to “Just Contract the Pathetic Pittsburgh Pirates Already”
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June 4th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
easy, they signed him through 2011 with a 1yr option at 5mil a year.
= Cheap Assholes
June 4th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Bucs are currently beating the Mets again today. If the Pirates win 75 games, John Russell should be manager of the year.
June 4th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
an of of bay, nady, and mcclouth would be better decent especially with duke and maholm at the front end of a rotation
arent bad teams supposed to want to keep all stars on cheap contracts?
June 4th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
McCutheon has 1 BB and 1H in 3ABs today.
June 4th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
They’re 24-28, that’s not terrible. Not good either but still.
June 4th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Never contract (or move) a team with as much history as Pittsburgh. Contract Colorado and Florida instead.
Now, this trade sucks, but SOMEbody’s gotta be the doormat every year, right? Every sport needs a team like the Clippers.
June 4th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
Can we combine them with the Indians? Both teams get 40 home games a year? Then the Yankees/BoSox could hurt twice as many people when they sign away our decent talent.
/Cliff Lee wearing pinstripes in 2011
June 4th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
You can’t have “The Haves” without having “The Have-Nots”.
Or should MLB contract to 1 league with just Boston, the 2 NY teams, the 2 LA teams, the 2 Chi-town teams, Cleveland, Houston, Frisco, St Louis, Houston and Oakland (for the Cult of Beane folks)?
…Hmm…..
June 4th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
Just sell the Pirates to Mark Cuban already
June 4th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Rockies are too high in attendance. Florida can go though.
June 4th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Contract Colorado and Florida instead.
change I could live with (especially the soon to be Miami Marlins)
June 4th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
If it ain’t New York, it ain’t $hit!
/TBL
June 4th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
“best bat†in Atlanta’s minors, Jordan Schafer
cheater
June 4th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
The Knicks haven’t finished above .500 since 2001. Let’s contract ‘em.
June 4th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
xavier nady is very good?
June 4th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
And the Celtics pre-2008.
June 4th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
if the bucs win 75 games, they deserve a parade, hookers for everyone, and you’ll be a monkey’s uncle.
June 4th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
You can rent a luxury box for $2,100 at PNC Park? Amazing, sign me up.
June 4th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
best stadium in america; WORST front office in america. just an absolute trainwreck.
June 4th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
let’s see, the past, i dunno, 15-20 years the pirates have been run by the mcclatchys and the nutty nutting family, both newspaper executives.
need i write more?
June 4th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
Nice to see the Dontrelle Willis era is over. He just got pulled while throwing a no-no:
2.1 IP, 0 H, 5 ER, 5 BB, 1 HBP
June 4th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
TBL, the title of this post is a pretty pathetic attempt to stir the pot. I hope you don’t actually believe that contracting a team is the way to make the talent pool better. Over the short term perhaps, but over time, as farm systems develop, the talent pool enlarges to it’s new size. It’s not something that happens within a few years, more like a decade. But the hint that leagues with less teams put more quality product on the field ignores so many other factors as to be ridiculous. There were shitty teams 100 years ago (remember the 1899 Cleveland Spiders?) and there are shitty teams now. As someone else said, there are and will always be Haves and Have-nots.
More to the point, Neal Huntington only became GM a year and half ago. For a team as perpetually fucked as the Pirates, it takes more than a couple of seasons to right the boat.
June 4th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
does that include concerts?
washington at pitt in july – fantastic!
June 4th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
You don’t want to contract an original 16 team. Pittsburgh is a good sports city, if the team is worth a damn.
I contract the Pirates, move the entire Marlins’ organization and offices to Pittsburgh as the Pirates and their awesome ballpark.
June 4th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
TBL company picnic?
June 4th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
terrible, selling high on a player. they got a starting LHP, and 2 other good prospects for a player they had a ready replacement for. how stupid.
Pirates attendance is negatively affected by the Pens going deep into the playoffs, unfortunately.
June 4th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Nice in theory but then the rest of the league cries foul that the Pirates suddenly reap the benefits of all the marlins’ “talent.”
/stifles laugh
/can’t hold it
/BWAHAHAHAHAAHA
June 4th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
I contract the Pirates, move the entire Marlins’ organization and offices to Pittsburgh as the Pirates and their awesome ballpark.
didn’t something like this already get doe w/ the Marlins? Loria gives the Expos to MLB to run for a while, buys the Marlins from Henry for $.60 on the dollar, then…surprise…Henry gets to buy the Red Sox. The old MLB shell game, thx to Bud & the old boys network. Also, the Marlins got $60 in revenue sharing from the owners and has a $45 million payroll. Voodoo economics!!!
I need to read up on this con game, I have forgotten some of the juicy tidbits
June 4th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
It isn’t the Pirates’ fault that their two best pitching prospects both had Tommy John surgery within the past few years. Their problem isn’t hitting, it’s pitching, and they got a pitching prospect who will probably be the second or third ranked pitcher in their system.
And a 27 year old who will probably never hit three hundred is not a budding star, and is not a leadoff hitter.
Like the trade, wish they had done it last year.
When Nomitt comes back this team has a very real chance of winning 80 games this year, and considering how bad their bullpen and backend of the rotation is, that is a fucking miracle.
June 4th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
You can rent a luxury box for $2,100 at PNC Park? Amazing, sign me up.
TBL company picnic?
My only hope is that it’s hat day
June 4th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
It really is too bad that in a city where every sport is thriving, a team with that much history is perennially SOOOOOOO Bad. I wonder, if, the Pirates say, won a world series soon and the Penguins keep doing as well as they do, who becomes more insufferable, Pittsburgh or Boston.
/Bitter New York fan’d
June 4th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
did anyone suggest contracting the yankees when they didn’t do dick from the late 70s to the early 90s?
June 4th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
Also, Bay and Nady’s deals are both up this year, there was absolutely zero chance either of them stayed.
And this trade wasn’t done for money reasons, they only owed Nate 1.5mil this year.
June 4th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
They would be – we only have 3 sports teams and the local accent isn’t quite as annoying.
June 4th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
If Francesca was running the Yankees he would have given the Pirates Hughes and a bat for him last year. He loves this guy.
June 4th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
Ross Ohlendorf 4 life!
June 4th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
AND through trading Nady (who has done a TON of good for the Yankees) they got two fifths of their rotation and the now rated top prospect in their system. If you think that trade was anything but a clean win for the Pirates, you’re friggin nuts man.
June 4th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
Fuck Andy LaRoche though.
June 4th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
yeah, tough to contract an original 16 team.
better to just install a salary cap!
June 4th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
he’s murdered the ball since that shitty, shitty start, mole.
June 4th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Mark Cuban should buy the Pirates, if he really wants a challenge.
June 4th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
better to just install a salary cap!
A salary cap won’t make teams who don’t want to spend shit, start spending on free agents. A salary floor is a better option. Though neither is better than the current system.
June 4th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
if nady was healthy it would actually have been pretty even (even though giving up Tabata was assinine) but he’s be out this whole year. He was a beast for us last year.
I haven’t visited PNC (later this year) so so far for me it’s:
1). Comerica
2). PETCO
3). AT&T or whatever the hell they’re calling it today
4). Citi Field
5). Wrigley
All objective of course, but I hate the New Yankee Stadium
June 4th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
Baseball has the most competitive parity of the 4 sports. So, no. Next question!
June 4th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
True, and he’s an upgrade over Bautista, I just got so sick of his errorfest at the start of the season.
If I had to pick between him and his brother, I’d take him, in a pinch.
June 4th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
/homer fixed
//you really don’t think the crew will be around come september?
June 4th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
i’d punch adam laroche in the face if i saw him on the street.
June 4th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
/double homer fixed
June 4th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
I’ll crouch behind him, you knock him backwards.
June 4th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
The Pirates may blow asshole (except when they play the Mets..motherfucking rat fucking cocksucking..blah..damnit) but that Nyjer Morgan knows how to wear a uniform…I would save the Pirates for that reason only.
June 4th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
Mole, I’m concerned about Tabata having an impact, but Karstens and Ohlendorf are not needed in NY.
June 4th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
True, but they are needed in Pittsburgh. Sure they are both perpetual 4 ERA guys, but they are better than their number three pitcher and the two guys they replaced in the rotation (Gorzo the middle reliever!). Nady played great last year, but with the injury this year I’ll be curious to see how he comes back, and who for.
But still, the Pirates were not going to win last year, this year, or the next, and Nady was gone after this year. They upgraded their rotation a bit and got a top corner outfielder out of him.
June 4th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Roman, that’s the gayest thing you’ve ever said.
/true though
//no homo
June 4th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
mccutchen is 2 for 4 with 3 runs and an rbi. extrapolated over a full season, that’s a .500 avg, 486 runs and 162 rbis. mclouth would never put up those kind of numbers.
June 4th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
He was a ghost?
Nady sucks.
So you’re either a guy who values a player with range who can catch the ball, or a guy who values a gold statue.
By signing him to the contract they did, it actually increased his value. More years of team control. Getting 2 of the top 7 prospects (according to BA) is a nice haul for a team with no farm.
Also, if you don’t value prospects, you really have no business evaluating trades. At all.
Just a prospect:
Beckett for some Hanley guy.
Bedard for this Adam Jones character.
How could the Marlins and O’s trade two stars for a bunch of unknowns!?
June 4th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
they’ve had more champions in the last decade, it must be true
/sarcasm off
June 4th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
freaky symmetry between newspapers and the pirates in the last 15 years. you may be onto something
June 4th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
nick…you’re the man. i feel like someone should say it.
June 4th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
Nyjer Morgan, former minor league hockey player. There is nothing about that guy I don’t love.
June 4th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
AND he wears stirrups…that alone is an act worthy of lofty praise.
June 4th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
Click my name, look to the right, guess who’s on top of the links section, bitches.
June 4th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
If the Pirates can turn one good player into a mediocre player and a star-caliber prospect, isn’t that worth it?
June 4th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
Just a prospect:
Beckett for some Hanley guy.
not so fast my friend!!
They traded Beckett, who they knew they couldn’t afford, AND FORCED the Sox to also take Lowell (who hit .236 his last Marlins season) and his $8 million/year contract, as the Marlins wouldn’t pay it. Lowell, to me, was the heart and soul of the Marlins (and the ‘08 Sox). The Sox repeatedly said Hanley was untouchable, but caved when Lowell started being sniffed to other teams (Orioles for one), and they knew they HAD to get Beckett, and they had to go as a package.
June 4th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
like when they threw Dontrelle in with Cabrera?
June 4th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
I remember when Boston thought Andy Marte was untouchable.
June 4th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
I know, jpq. That actually makes it even better.
They traded two bonafide MLB players, including a stud frontline pitcher and a gold glove third baseman, for a god damn .782 OPSing minor league unknown dude with a frying pan for a glove? Golly.
June 4th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
as an indians fan, i wish someone would touch andy marte.
June 4th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
like when they threw Dontrelle in with Cabrera?
exactamundo
They traded two bonafide MLB players, including a stud frontline pitcher
NickP: I am saying this knowing there is a Beckett Marlins jersey still hanging in my son’s closet from ‘03 and I love the Red Sox, but he is WAAYYY over-rated. For every ‘03 clinching WS winner, he’s had 10 head scratchers.
I thought their staff in ‘03 had the potential to be one of the Top 3-5 staffs EVER (old Dodgers, Orioles, others). None of those guys has performed CONSISTANLY (and some hardly at all) to warrant thinking that anymore. Too bad.
June 4th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
Beckett for some Hanley guy.
Bedard for this Adam Jones character
In all seriousness though, how many of these work out like this? I would add the A’s getting Haren and give an incomplete on the Salty/Andrus package. But for every one of those you can come up with at least two packages like those for Harden or Hudson which end up being forgotten. Its a good strategy if done right, but just because you take back prospects doesn’t mean that it was a good trade.
June 4th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
That’s why when you evaluate trades, you take the average.
A top 10 BA prospect has an expected value of *some number* based on the history of top 10 prospects.
We know Mclouth’s value is *another number* based on a projection of his future performance coupled with the amount due him on his contract.
It’s not like there’s a risk in trading FOR a “stud.” If the Red Sox had traded Big Papi for “just some prospect” two years ago, they’d look like geniuses right now, no?
Why is the downside risk only with the “uknown?” Seems pretty stupid.
June 4th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
jpq’s new avatar is rather disappointing.
June 4th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
Taking back prospects doesn’t make it a good trade (every club has a #4 and #7 ranked prospect, and the majority of them will never amount to shit), but if you’re the Pirates or Marlins then that’s what you have to do.
McLouth is a good player. Not a great player, not a difference maker on a contending team, but a good player when viewed in context of the Pirates and their lack of talent. I’m not thrilled that a slap hitting team just got that much weaker, but Huntington has done a decent job of restocking a farm system that was remarkably barren. You have to roll the dice and hope that one of these prospects pan out. He wasn’t going to get Schafer or Hanson, not for someone of McLouth’s caliber.
June 4th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
Kobe’s last three elimination games:
31.8% shooting performance
39.4% shooting performance
31 blowout loss
/That Mamba goes straight for the jugular!
June 4th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
Oops
June 4th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
jpq’s new avatar is rather disappointing
Hernia: just a little homage to my idol Jack Nicklaus for his Memorial Tournament this week. Monday I go back to “normal”
June 4th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
SHOW SOME FUCKING RESPECT!
jack nicklaus deserves it, damnit.
June 4th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
just giving you shit anyway
June 4th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
hernia: while we are talking avatars, who is the “African-American gentleman” you are sporting? I am the coolest old, white, middle aged and middle class guy I know, but I have no idea who that is
June 4th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
mclouth was just ‘good?’
you’re assuming that guys who weren’t even at the top of the braves farm system are going to be mediocre and ’star-caliber.’
maybe the pirates will be the rays in 2 yrs
/snicker
June 4th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
nice debut for McLouth’s fill-in … 2-4, 3 runs, sb, RBI … my fantasy team is overjoyed
June 4th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
June 4th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
The Knicks haven’t finished above .500 since 2001. Let’s contract ‘em.
You never hear the media saying that (insert baseball superstar here) should sign with the Pirates because it’s “good for baseball.”
/are the Pirates also a “storied franchise?” They’ve won more titles than the Knicks in the last 50 years.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:27 pm
Trying out this link
June 4th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
Just breaking the ice with my first comment.
Thanks for the password TBL…