Little Brothers, a Retrospective, for the Media Member Who Deemed His Brethren ‘Big Brother’
Blogging, Media Gossip/Musings June 12th. 2009, 1:15pm
What would you say if we told you that on this humid Friday in the Northeast, we could present to you one of the most laughable screeds in the brief history of the ongoing blogger vs. media debate? Is that something you’d be interested in?
If you’re in need a laugh to loosen up before a liquid lunch or to snap you out of a food coma, allow us to introduce you to a man named David Murphy of the Philadelphia Daily News. And yes, this pertains to Raul Ibanez.
The point is that most bloggers are not trained in such analysis, and thus can not be expected to produce rational examinations of professional sports. Most bloggers have not spent years in college studying the craft of writing, reporting and analyzing. Most bloggers have not spent years embedded in the world of athletic competition, interacting with athletes and trainers and coaches, learning the people and their sports, learning their motivations, and their insecurities, and their foibles, and their strengths. Most bloggers view the athletic arena through two-dimensional objects — television, newspapers, the Internet, radio — and thus have a two-dimensional perspective, much like a person viewing a museum exhibit about another culture and attempting to relay his observations in the manner of a person who has spent years living in that culture. This, in a nutshell, is the blogosphere.
Wow. Who’s up for an email campaign to get Fire Joe Morgan out of mothballs for just one post?
Lowly bloggers aren’t interacting with the players and coaches, how can they possibly have perspective on such important matters such as balls, strikes and steroids? It’s like Mr. Murphy rolled up all the trite blogger cliches – no access, no experience, not professional, no boundaries – and attempted to pass it off as some highbrow take wrapped around the cockamamie ‘brother’ analogy.
[Aside: Which little brother are we, Mr. Murphy? Are you thinking we're like young Seth Green, who was so nettlesome to big bro Patrick Dempsey in Can't Buy Me Love? Do you prefer pesky Arnold to too-cool Willis? Is it a more cordial relationship like Ben Seaver and Mike Seaver had on Growing Pains? Please, let us know how this little brother-big brother alliance works.]
Why didn’t Mr. Murphy write a column after Rick Reilly’s jab at Adrian Beltre? “We’re throwing out Beltre since, while he denies ever using PEDs, he fell off the face of the planet once baseball put in stricter steroid suspensions in 2005. If he wasn’t cheating, I’m the Queen Mother.”
- – -
Ignoring bloggers is a fine idea. In theory. Here are, briefly, three instances in which the media could have ignored posts that appeared on this site, but didn’t:
* The Derrick Rose photo. Non-story, right? Only a few bloggers were talking about it. But bloggers talking about it got fans talking about it, and with the draft still two weeks away, it was the only Bulls story over the last few days. So the media faced a decision: Do you ignore the story on your beat that fans are talking about? The Sun-Times did. The Tribune didn’t. By 3 pm yesterday, it was the No. 1 story on the Tribune’s website. By 6 pm, a Sportscenter producer emailed us in an attempt to track down the photo’s origin. Rose released a statement.
* The Jimmy Clausen photo. Non-story, right? He’s holding a beer at a party. Big deal! Well, except that he had been busted once, and he was the face of the team. The story spread to Notre Dame message boards, and was picked up by the Tribune. Clausen avoided punishment (he didn’t deserve one). Weis and Clausen were asked about this at media day last year.
* Jake Peavy’s mysterious hand substance. Someone sent us a screen grab, and it looked damning. The LA Times picked it up, and then it reached the AP wire, and coaches and players are asked about it.
Some media outlets ‘get’ bloggers – if you break news on your paper’s website, is it a terrible idea to then email the link to some blogs in an effort to get the word out? Or would you rather have the AP, ESPN, SI, etc chase your story, and when they swallow it, they swallow all your links and traffic as well? Then, when your boss wonders why your stories aren’t being clicked on … we digress.
There’s no correct answer to the relationship because it’s fluid and sometimes (often?), contentious. Why not sift through the thousands of blog options, make your educated, professional guess on what’s worth following and what isn’t, and go from there? Isn’t that how fans treat the mainstream media?
On Raul Ibanez, and media accountability (High Cheese, the Philly Daily News)
141 Responses to “Little Brothers, a Retrospective, for the Media Member Who Deemed His Brethren ‘Big Brother’”
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June 12th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
I’m thinking more like Kevin and Wayne Arnold
June 12th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
The stench of academia is thick with this one. All these eggheads who think you’re not entitled to an opinion if you didn’t labor through four-plus years of college couldn’t change a light bulb if their lives depended on it. Fuck you, David Murphy, and everyone like you, you god damned jock sniffer.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
The only thing thing I get from all this is that journalists really, really love themselves.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
this is akin to Dibble’s “if you never played the game your opinion has no worth” argument.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
As someone who is classically trained in journalism, I can only add that bloggers continue to take themselves way too seriously. I still don’t think too many people are looking for credibility from their blogs (especially sports), just entertainment.
I come here for the Kobe hating..always entertaining.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
This could be a lengthy discussion.
I’ll try to make it brief. Blogs serve a purpose and TBL pretty much hit on it. There’s no reason for me to elaborate.
But I will say this about bloggers. Many of them can offer good, insightful opinion on many things, but there are certain aspects of sports that because of limited (or no) access to players, managers or “working in the (lockerroom, press box, etc.) culture,” bloggers come up short. It’s that simple.
Mainstream writers wrongly use this “advantage” as the high horse approach and put off bloggers even more so while exascerbating the MSM vs. bloggers battle. Bloggers often push the boundaries in rebuttal. These are the same boundaries that MSMers aren’t allowed to push because it goes against newspaper, TV and to a lesser extent ethics.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
wow, what an asshole. No “In their parents basement” jab while we’re at it?
Because you really need to go to college to analyze properly.
Blogs have been rising over the years in not just quantity but also in page hits because they tend to break stories before their “big brother” is able to put out a flier. This elitest attitude this assclown shows nearly makes me ashamed to have made journalism my major (before I changed it twice.) You’re not going to win any fans or readers by whining about how others don’t “respect your craft” as you would like us to believe.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
Good call. The fact that TBL chose to use Growing Pains over Wonder Years makes me think this guy has a point.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
wow. i could have saved myself an hour and written that. well said
what a brick not mentioning those guys. a perfect fit for this.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
this dude is like 14.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
So the whole blogger perspective has always been based as an outsider’s look/fan point of view. Now all of a sudden everyone’s pissed because someone said that’s exactly what they are?
June 12th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
Old Media is just attempting to save itself while its foundation crumbles. Who amongst us wouldn’t do the same? Self preservation is a key human instinct.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
I agree most of them do. There are several blogs that serve a good purpose and TBL is one of them. But for every TBL (who’s done the MSM journo thing and gets it), there’s 2K shit blogs written by assholes (KSK), punks (that 12-year-old who comments here) and stooges.
I also find it ironic that most blogs are reactionary, rather that offering foresight and use links to MSM (gasp!) stories online like newspaper and TV sites.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
A huge difference is that a blogger cannot pick up the phone and call a source within an organization. Reporters at all your local newspapers can do this. Cultivating sources is not something that can just be done with a few years of blogging.
Blogs certainly have their place, but they cannot and will not ever provide the necessary oversight over local institutions (like schools, police, courts..etc) that newspapers and real reporters can provide.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
nobody likes their territory infringed upon … hence the GET OFF MY LAWN! sentiment.
What’s surprising is that this kid’s young; i could understand a 45-year-old being upset by the changing landscape, cough, Rosenthal, cough
June 12th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
A few days late, but welcome back Maggs. When’s the next meltdown?
June 12th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
Michael and Gob Bluth.
Also, how much must it suck to know you frittered away four years of college for the opportunity to work in a dying industry? Enjoy the buy-out package when you get fired, sir.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
Actually I’m thinking Malcolm and Reese in this one. Wayne showed a little humanity every now and then.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
This is why they call him The Godfather. It’s not easy to take on the BBB ==> “Big Brother Bullshit.” You can’t just slap up a few crass lines of wit and get the job done you know, plus there are those darn server problems like that week he was out undercover remember?
We don’t have a battle chant here yet, but if we did the establishment media would go from sour grapes to making vinegar out of vineyards of them.
Onward with the mission friends, which of course is partly classified, and stay thirsty.
Hold your heads high today proud as the days TBL Godfather landed an interview with Roger Goodell and with Al Michaels.

And be sure to tell any curmudgeon establishment media types who really should not have jobs before too long like like Cowturd, Tirico, Steve Van Gundy, Scott, Francesa, Misanelli, et cetera that they can EAT ASS!
Fewer of us are watching their lame asses any more anyway, because after all we have TBL leading the pack in our global mission!
June 12th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
By the way, blogs like the Huffington Post and politico have actual newsrooms with trained reporting, so I wouldn’t lump them in with blogs. They’re actual news services (and commentary as well).
June 12th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
KSK may be asshole, but they are damn funny assholes.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
give it 5 yrs. blogs have been popular for what, 3-4 years?
June 12th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
There’s a buyout package? I didn’t learn that at school! The one thing I needed them to teach and they drop the ball.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
Well said Cursed. Blog like TBL are the cream of the crop for the most part. Not trying to kiss ass, just stating the obvious. Go scour the net for blogs and the vast majority are crap. Now, the writers’ douch-like tone is what makes me upset. I have been trained to do what he speaks of, and I can tell you until you do it, the training means little. So like the above-poster said, using the “I have access” as the trump card is lame. But, as Cursed said, not having the access will certainly leave you short. That is why TBL landing interviews like Goodell and Al Michaels and Joe Buck makes his blog so much better than most. He gets some access.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
But I’m talking about the average blogger, they’ll NEVER be able to do this. Look at the awful retention rate of blogs (the NYT just did a piece on this).
Sure, maybe TBL, or Deadspin can get reaction from real sources, or maybe Brooks, but all of you were trained in journalism (Brooks is a radio guy out west).
The typical blogger cannot do this. You guys are the exception, not the rule.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
As someone who is classically trained in journalism,
While I agree that good writing is an art form, please drop the word “classically”. You learned to write in short concise sentences and to give context in journalism school, you’re not doing piano concertos in Carnegie Hall.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
whats funny is he got his J-degree just to go to a newspaper and…write a blog.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
I can’t disagree more! There is so much inbred corruption in this regard in any community that MORE blogs are needed not less. Then we can sort out the real from the unreal, but the truth always comes out sooner and in the cases of the most grievous local propaganda, later.
What are you some government shill on here spying on us?
June 12th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
M2621, that was sarcasm, something I did not learn in J-School.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
Two points:
How many of those reporters are unduly influenced by those sources in order to keep their source? If a journalist tells the source “I heard that player X got in a fight with player Y after the game,” and the source says “It might have happened, but we’d appreciate your discretion on this,” how many of them would do it?
Second, how many of those sources will tell a journalist something like “I hear that Brad Childress has given Brett Favre a deadline of Friday,” and they go with it without even checking it with a second source? Or better yet, ask Brad Childress? Or accept some self-serving tripe that an athlete’s representation agency gives them without question, which only serves the purpose to increase the athlete’s visibility or leverage with his team?
June 12th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
I haven’t seen any blogs lately at my local school board meeting, or at city council. When’s the last time a small blog has filed a FOIA request?
June 12th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
NickP – I like you man, but that’s harsh. Even douchebags don’t deserve to be put out to pasture when they’ve got a wife and kids to feed at home.
MS – It’s called a bachelor’s degree for a reason. They don’t just teach you how to write or speak well. There’s a lot more to it. The problem is, that’s the blogger mentality. “He wasted four years of his life and money and I can do it just by opening my laptop.” False.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
I’ve never seen a ball player’s johnson in a locker room, and yet somehow this hasn’t seemed to limit my ability for statistical analysis. What a douche. One could argue that an economics major would be better qualified for a lot of sports analysis than someone who went to school for journalism.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
That shit happens all the time in Austin. Mostly because these techie types have no lives and like to meddle in other people business.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
Picture of the year.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
You’re confusing analysis with reporting.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
Capitalism, my friend.
I-Bankers and analysts have wives to feed, too. Don’t see many people caring about their firing. I know a lot of good people who were fired that had nothing to do with subprime.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
Funny thing is with the whole “college” angle – I’m willing to bet 99% of the top bloggers online have at least a Bachelor’s Degree.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
It’s not that it’s academia that bothers me. It’s that it is pseudo-academia. Is journalism a craft or an academic pursuit? It can’t be both.
With a journalism degree you learn how to stylize your writing to a specific format, you learn guidelines, you learn how to take what someone else says and pick out the important points.
You don’t learn how to “rationally analyze” something. I do have a MA in journalism. But, I am fairly confident my rational analysis skills were better honed by my history degree at a top 25 university. There is no magical understanding of life a journalism degree provides you.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
M2621, that was sarcasm, something I did not learn in J-School.
Fair enough, I’ll turn my sarcasm monitor up higher.
MS – It’s called a bachelor’s degree for a reason. They don’t just teach you how to write or speak well. There’s a lot more to it. The problem is, that’s the blogger mentality. “He wasted four years of his life and money and I can do it just by opening my laptop.€ False.
NDub, I think you’re inferring a bit too much from what I said. I am complete agreement with what you said. I am in graduate school currently with an aim to becoming a professor some day (with a mountain of debt to go with it), so I fully concur that college is less about rote gaining of knowledge and more about learning how to think, how to write, how to analyze. But I disagree with any notion of journalists as some form of purveyors of art (which as you can see above, cursed was being sarcastic in his usage of “classically”, which I had missed). Writers can be arists: Faulkner, Tennyson, Byron, Hemingway were artists. Most journalists, while having a worthy occupation, are not artists, in my opinion.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Wasn’t Reggie Theus handing out ARMs as breakneck pace?
June 12th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
@Cursecleveland.com – No, I’m not confusing analysis with reporting. The point is, many columns that involve stats are one part reporting/writing, one part analysis. So a journalism/english major is more qualified for one half, while a business/econ major would be more qualified for the other half. No one has the perfect background for every column – that’s my point. (For the record, I have a degree in English, so I’m really arguing against myself).
June 12th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
Yeah but where are they in the coaches’ poll?
June 12th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
The stench of academia is thick with this one. All these eggheads who think you’re not entitled to an opinion if you didn’t labor through four-plus years of college couldn’t change a light bulb if their lives depended on it. Fuck you, David Murphy, and everyone like you, you god damned jock sniffer.
“wow. i could have saved myself an hour and written that. well said.”
Thanks for the kind words, TBL. I do what I can. I’m surrounded by these smug know-it-all types here at the job, so I can pretty much spot ‘em a mile away. Steer clear, bro!
June 12th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
It’s the hyprocisy. They preach about their expertise from their bully pulpit, and I suppose it makes them feel better about being a bunch of whores who are only allowed to report on the things that their sources and corporate owners allow them to report on.
i.e. go make me some money and write about Brett Favre, bitch.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Jay – I’m glad you have the awareness to ask questions like this. Society needs people to question those in power, but also question those who question those in power.
I don’t speak for all journalists, but I can tell you in the 18 months I’ve been a full-time journalist, I haven’t ran into situations even remotely similiar to this. Journalists aren’t PR people but they aren’t cut-throat either. There’s a medium somewhere in between for most of them but some lean one way or the other. Good journalists develop sources and contacts and don’t have to worry about being put in situations like this by those sources/contacts. That’s the beauty of the relationship. There are also certain things that take precedent over others. So what if two guys exchanged words in the locker room? Is it really necessary to report about if it’s not a common thing? Do we really need to go Ed Werder/Dallas Cowboys/ESPN with it?
Sorry I had to get the DirecTV guy some directions and lost my train of thought.
Also, I’m trying to get out of journalism because of the instability of the industry. PR and/or marketing is my calling.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
There’s also no magical understanding to Dungeons and Dragons, yet people still play that.
/Just saying
June 12th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Also, just to harp on Rosenthal’s acorn attack a bit more.
The media 10 years ago did have standards. They also FUCKED UP EPICALLY on steroids in baseball. They fellated Mark McGwire, profited from books about him, sold papers and magazines because of him.
No one questioned why he was the size of a small automobile and hitting 70 home runs. Everyone turned their back on a story staring blatantly in their face out of convenience. THEY FAILED THEIR READERS.
All of the reporting on steroids in baseball has been reactive, not proactive. It has all been in response to handouts from government involvement. No baseball writer has proactively been a watchdog about steroids.
Do your job before you pontificate to me about standards.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Really? I mean really? Most bloggers say the same thing, imo.
There are two types of blogs… the quickie blogs with a lot of info throughout the day (Big Lead, Gawker, [enterCityName]ist etc). Then there are the longer, maybe once a day, blogs that read just like a news paper column with links. The second type of blog rarely adds anything to the debate other than what everyone else is/has/will say 95% of the time.
I agree with whoever said that bloggers take themselves way too seriously… as Cuban pointed out, no one really reads these sites. 100k hits it’s that many when you step back and think about how many people live in America, how many people watch/follow sports (three million will watch Game Seven tonight; 100k is 3% of people watching a sport no one in American watches)…
So what are blogs (sport blogs) outside of the five biggest? Some guy talking a lit bit louder than everyone else at a crowded bar.
Newspapers and sport journalists got lazy because there was little to no competition from the 70s to the early 00s. But in the last five to eight years, blogs have been a good thing for sports because it’s pointed out just how badly most sport journalists are at their job.
I think blogs are important and they are enjoyable, but other than five or six sites, the don’t matter.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Journalism training doesn’t come from a classroom or a textbook. If you’re talking about sports, it comes from experience watching players and games, and then getting insight from the people you talk to. The reason why “statistical analysis” is so big among bloggers now is because that’s the relevant argument they can bring to the table. And in their quest to become more accepted, you get stupid PER ratings and stuff that justify things that wouldn’t make sense if you just watched the game.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Yeah, and most bloggers have probably watched more games this week than you have all year.
/Mitch Albom’d
I link to MSM stories if that’s where I found it…sometimes (more often than not, actually) they beat you to the punch. Doesn’t mean they didn’t miss something completely that you can’t add your own insight to.
TOTALLY DISAGREE. I’ve never been in a professional journalism job, but I was a sales person before I started my blog. It’s the same as sales. All you have to do is pick up the phone. What’s the worst they can say…”No, I won’t take your call”?
June 12th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Man, I really have nothing to say except that the comments have been more insightful than the article itself.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
I love the museum analogy. If bloggers are the spectators at a museum, then newspaper writers are like the security guards. Sure they work with the exhibit, but they really don’t know sh*t.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
Duffy gets it.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
@ Otter – Good points and elaboration. What I meant was I can read a Detroit Tigers blog (The Detroit Tigers Weblog, for example) and get some good insight about my favorite baseball team. There’s similarities to what the guys at the Free Press and News write, but there are some things those MSM guys don’t get to (and do get to that the blog doesn’t). The DTWB guy can write all he wants about his favorite team because he’s doing it for fun. The Tigers beat guys at the FT and DN sometimes have other full-time tasks and beats that don’t allow them 100 percent focus on the Tigers beat. To me, this is good stuff and often insightful because Bilfer (the blogger) makes sense.
@NickP – True, it’s capitalism. Hell, you could go a form of Darwinism, if you’d like. But my point is that these are 45-year-old guys who, 22 years ago, thought they could make a life off of sports journalism (newspapers) and feed their wives and kids and get that dream home. So they dropped all the money and time in a J-school degree and are facing buyouts and lay-offs and thoughts of not being able to provide for their families. That’s where a lot of their bitterness comes from. Capitalism? You bet. But it doesn’t mean it’s fair.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Cursed, this comment is so laughable it is incredible, and my other post on this did not go through for some reason.
Ah, so you believe “official channels” make them necessarily more credible for the information gained …yeah right.
And then you say FOIA, which for the more contentious matters any reporter knows is bogus Washingtonian bureaucracy despite being the law!
How often do folks go to court for compliance, and don’t you know that the federal and local governments have so many legal loopholes to use to comply with such “official” requests so as to leave out what they don’t want you to hear.
Hey cursed, you keep going through those “official channels” and buying bridges they sell you.
The rest of us will freely decide amidst all we read, as published freely, what is true and what is not after looking at the information OURSELVES. We don’t need no stinkin’ “educated” journalist with “connections to local government figures” to spell it out here at TBL after going through those “official channels.” Just give us the story and what you know, and as adults we’ll take it from there.
How is perhaps your friend Cowturd doing? He advocates the Chinese model of no blogging in anonymity even!
Those of you who live or have lived in very small cities or towns under about 50K folks, even in big Metro areas, know damn well what I am talking about with regard to local corruption and coverups, as do those of you who have lived or worked in several Metro areas like DC, Las Vegas, New York, Philadelphia, Chicago, Boston, Atlanta, et cetera.
Each area’s “official” sources, damn the law, have their own illicit practices and biases.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
Good point about journalists, bad point about other areas of academia. Journalists don’t really learn anything, as far as I’m aware, other than how to chase a fire truck, write a solid and short sentence, and how NOT to bury a lead (most blogs, imo, bury the lead). They don’t learn about sports or science or ’smoothing consumption’ or over the counter ethanol swaps… so when a sports journalist goes off about sports… I don’t think he/she has two feet to stand on because the only difference is that he/she asked softball questions and got a softball response from a guy who played in the game. Does that give him/her more insight than someone watching the game on TV? Maybe. But is it all that much?
June 12th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
The reporters do (usually) get up close with the players, but doesn’t that also add some bias? It’s like what’s happening in Atlanta with Frenchy: The fans have been saying he needs more seasoning since 2006, but the media has been on the players side the whole time, calling him “The Natural” even though he’s been swinging and missing ever since after the 2005 season. Some media members actually BLASTED the fans for booing this kid, and now that it’s been proven that he is what he is, all they can say is “oops.”
June 12th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Many bloggers are very educated, which is what gets me the most about the media people who feel so powerful because they got to sniff Shaq’s thong. In fact, many have chosen to do other careers involving education because they know how ridiculously difficult it is to break into traditional journalism, which is underpaid and is currently sinking at break-neck speed anyway.
Here’s an easy question to marinate on….
Could more people in other professions accurately form opinions on sporting topics/analyis (assuming interest), or could more media analysts/journalists accurately form decisions on other business professions?
June 12th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Capitalism? You bet. But it doesn’t mean it’s fair.
ruh row.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
TBL this new guy Joey is money. Captain Duffy I recommend him for promotion and full membership.
Hey Joey keep kicking ass there at work then, and watch out for those fuckin’ ninnies too. See you on here with more fine posts exposing the BS too then.
Welcome to the global mission, but we can’t tell you more yet it is classified in part.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
Word up. Good example.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
The point he was making was that newspaper guys/journalists have the credibility and credentials (IE. you work for a company, not your own website) that makes you more accessible to the coaches, players, administrators, etc. The chances that they answer or return a journalist’s phone call or e-mail are 100 times more likely than an independent blogger.
This is why we get links in the AM Roundups about a blogger who is granted an interview by a team president, GM or coach. Because it’s a big deal. It rarely happens. That’s why when TBL scores these awesome interviews, we get worked up. Because he’s a blogger and you just don’t see that type of stuff in blogs. When a newspaper guy sits down with Al Michaels and asks simliar questions, he might get a mention or something, but does he really get the blow out? No, because he’s doing his JOB. The blogger gets mention because he broke through some sort of barrier.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
as my father always said: “Life isn’t fair. Nobody owes you anything. Deal with it.”
June 12th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
Ndub,
I used to be a journalist but don’t do that anymore. But I’ll give you an example. You might have heard of this example.
Several years ago, a story leaked out after the season that a Saints player was sleeping with Willie Roaf’s wife. A guy I knew who worked television in New Orleans told me about this in like November. Apparently every journalist who had the Saints beat knew about it. The season imploded, the locker room was torn apart, and Roaf was traded the next year.
And yet, nobody ever reported this. The only time this was ever addressed to my knowledge in the mainstream media was when ESPN asked Joe Horn about it well after the season was over. And the sad thing was, when all of this came out in rumors and whispers, everybody assumed it was Joe Horn, and it wasn’t (if I remember my source correctly, it was another player who left town that next year too).
There’s a reason why the journalists know more than the public, and it has more to do than just access.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
Don’t confuse what you see on an ESPN pregame for journalism. If you’d ever interviewed or talked to people off camera, especially for feature stories, you’d be surprised how much you learn hearing someone else’s perspective.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
Didnt even read Paolos last post but I am guaranteeing it will both teach us a valuable tool for our everday lives and be hilarious. You sir, need to stay thirsty.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
I was about to type something in this regard, but I hit refresh and Ty (probably as a result of that damn top 25 degree!) beat me to it.
So, I’ll just go with the standard, “What he said.”
June 12th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
But you’re REPORTING the news and the games (which are, essentially, the news itself). You’re not deciding the outcome.
That’s why I don’t understand the elitiest attitude. All bloggers (well…maybe not ALL) have a valid opinion on what they see during a game/season/career. Just because they don’t talk to the players themselves doesn’t mean they’re uninformed. The stats are out there for everyone to form their own conclusion, and then opposing views can be argued. Just because I didn’t graduate with a degree in journalism doesn’t mean I’m not able to dissect what I’m watching.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
some good banter. a lot of the team specific blogs really kick ass. Celtic blog is great. Bleed Cubbie Blue. USS Mariner. these are hardcore fans who watch the team day in and day out and provide really good analysis.
there’s a million more, too. and the #’s will only increase. some papers will stop covering a team full-time on the road if they’re 20 games out in august. blogs or the drab AP?
June 12th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
That’s a great question and probably at the crux of this debate. Good lord, you opened a can of worms. Ha ha.
To the former point, I think that’s been answered or at least touched upon by credible blogs like TBL. The latter, I think is the big issue, but I would say media analysts and journalists don’t all go to J-school and aren’t all sports writers. Duffy is a history major. That could help him do a lot of stuff besides journalism. Also, there are business, economy, education, news, music, human interest, etc. journalists all over that offer insight into certain industries.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
Do what I “can”.
And not to get too philosophical on it, but I feel it really depends on the individual and their ability (or inability) to analysize and form solid opinions. Not what their educational/ professional background is…
June 12th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
See, you can watch a game and look at stats all you want, but you’re still relying on the news from reporters about how Lamar’s game has been affected by his back or that Rashard Lewis maybe be struggling because he might be worried about his family. I think people tend to forget the stuff they base their opinions on, which is the information these guys you hate are bringing to you.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
*analyze
June 12th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
NDub – I’ll respectfully disagree again. It all depends on how you position yourself. Many of these coaches, players or whatever are frustrated with MSM because they take a story and run with it without checking facts. Look at Childress. He probably wants to choke Ed Werder. Some of these people are happy to talk to a blog, even if it doesn’t have exposure. You think Joe Buck would say the same things to Dan Patrick as he does to TBL?
This I agree with.
This I don’t. It happens more often than you would think. There’s millions of blogs out there. God knows I haven’t discovered half of them.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
intense passion about a subject coupled with sound knowledge of the arena of the author’s choice will always yield good results.
id kill to get paid to write about golf and get the access that paid writers do.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
Totally agree. I open up Al Yellon and Bleed Cubbie Blue before TBL in the morning. Sorry, TBL. You know how Cubs fans are…
June 12th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
intense passion about a subject coupled with sound knowledge of the arena of the author’s choice will always yield good results.
this is why you like Johnny Miller, right?
/ducks
June 12th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
And yet, I have learned more about the current state of the PGA Tour from you and the other commenters on this board, because all the paid people are allowed to write and talk about are Tiger and Phil.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
I read your email.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
How many people out there have a blog just because they enjoy writing, or they want a place to spew their opinion every now and then? The assumption that everyone with a Wordpress or Blogger account wants to become TBL or Deadspin is a faulty one. I think it’s a hobby for a lot of people, and for those types, they couldn’t care less what Ibanez or any member of the MSM thinks, much less if they even read the blog.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
Well, I think as a journalist you have to toe that line of respecting the code of the locker room and a man’s private life but also continue informing the public. I’m in locker rooms a lot and I don’t write everything I see. In fact, I don’t think I write anything I see. Sure, what goes on in the locker room has a lot to do with what goes on out in the field. But why should I write that some guys were playing cards and listening to gangster rap during the rain delay? That has a lot to do with team camaraderie, even during a losing streak. So when something bad happens, say a pitcher and catcher get into a skirmish because of missed calls, should I write about that? Regardless if the team is mired in a losing slump or winning streak?
I’m an outsider on the Willie Roaf stuff, so it’s hard for me to draw conclusions or make journalistic judgements. I think part of the question of should you or should you not write about goes with the “feeling” you get from the team/players/locker room and how impactful (or not) it is on the team. That would be my approach. You’ve got to have the journalistic morals and ethics (which are taught in J-School) to determine if this story is worthy of being written.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Aw shucks, Paolo, you really know how to make a guy feel welcome! Thanks for the plug! Somebodys gotta handle-up on these freakin’ pansies! Off to lunch, for now; back to fight the good fight later.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
I don’t “hate” all reporters. I just don’t like when they get all high-and-mighty about how people who didn’t get the access don’t know what we’re talking about. Naturally, there are some human elements that have to be accounted for, but to say that because I didn’t know that player X is sleeping with player Y’s wife, which has made player Y’s performance suffer, that I’m in the wrong isn’t all fair. The arrogance written in the above article just shows that there are reporters that attack bloggers unprovoked because they fear that the industry is changing without them.
before I ramble any more: We all have opinions, and some are more valid than others. To come out and say the other side knows NOTHING just because they’re not in your field is unjust.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
Whoa, so you’re saying everyone who knows anything beyond Tiger and Phil don’t rely on newspapers and news reports? Where do they get their information? Scorecards?
June 12th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
/raises hand
But that doesn’t mean I’m not trying to get sponsored! Everyone wants to get paid to do something they enjoy. And, being your own boss is a HUGE plus.
Fetch left a comment on my blog about it yesterday. I think we all took a little from Deadspin or TBL. No one is trying to completely reinvent the wheel. You just have to add your own subtle qualities and mannerisms to your own piece of real estate and that’s what gets you an audience.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Those that know the sport and watch the broadcasts can form an opinion based on what they see.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Current case in point: Michael Vick is released. On the ESPNews scroll, they remind you that he was a former #1 pick in the draft and that the last time he played he set the record for most rushing yards and highest rushing average for a quarterback.
Nothing on the scroll about completing 52 percent of his passes. Or his team finishing 7-9. Or how he couldn’t complete passes to the same wide receivers that Matt Ryan could as a rookie.
Are they in the business of “reporting the facts” here, or trying to make the case for why they think he should sign with another team?
June 12th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
So.. It wasn’t Joe Horn?
/my mind is blown
//So, Albert Connell didn’t steal 4 g’s from a teammate?
June 12th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
I’m guessing news reporting would be included in that
June 12th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
I’m assuming that a lot of it comes from watching it on television or in person.
The networks (outside of the Golf Channel) don’t even talk about the tournament unless Tiger and Phil are playing.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
ESPN really needs to cut the crap on the extra filler. It’s a waste of time and space.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
Right. ESPN has certainly changed the mediums. We’re over-satured with sensationalistic and nonsensical reporting and analysis. But you’re talking national media level. ESPN, Yahoo!, etc.
What about the large or medium sized markets with minor league teams and big-time high school programs? Do you think Manager Triple-A Lifer or Coach Podunk would talk to a blogger? That’s not very likely. And even if he would, would the minor league franchise grant all-access media pass so that the blogger could just write opinions for the few hundred people that read his blog? Versus the newspaper guy who scribes for a 30K daily? I don’t think so.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
Strangely enough, yours was one of the two blogs I had in mind when I typed that. The other was mine. I don’t post that often, and when I do, it’s only going to be on a subject matter I find interesting enough to compel me to write. I actually enjoy the process of writing. Sure, my link is there on my name, but it really doesn’t matter to me if you click it or not. If you do, and you like what you read, great. If not, no big deal, I didn’t write it for you anyway. That’s not to say my writing style wasn’t influenced by someone else. Everyone’s is. I just don’t have any visions of my blog becoming my everyday job, and I think the vast majority of people are the same way.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
Yeah, I was a bit disappointed when Goose Gossage made the Hall last year and ESPN didn’t focus on his walk count or how he had over a hundred losses.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
Makblunt, if I remember correctly, it was a guy who left town to sign a huge contract with the Packers. And was never heard from again.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
Clown, apples and oranges. Goose Gossage was a Hall of Famer.
Michael Vick can only complete passes to Alge Crumpler.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
HELL NO!
There, we agree on that one at least. I like this thread. More of these please!
June 12th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
since this is about golf, i’ll respond regarding that sport specifically…
you’d be shocked at how ignorant many writers are about current players and their seasons so far. have we seen a single espn, golf digest, golf magazine, golf week, etc article about sean o’hair even tho he’s top 10′d pretty much every tourney he’s entered and leads pretty much every statistical category in the game?
no…instead we get puff pieces about tiger and phil, knocks on sergio, and discussion about whether paddy can turn it around, even tho, if you knew paddy’s career, you’d see that he’s playing like he has all along except for those 3 flukey weekends.
i understand it’s about brining in eyeballs, but golf writing is pretty pathetic. and it’s not just the players either…courses, the equipment regulations, rule changes…a lot of it gets simply ignored despite the fact it’s all a big piece of the puzzle. and you can see all that just by watching week in and out.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
How many people do you know personally who still read the newspaper or magazine, other than bonafide bloggers like our TBL Godfather and his “Commission Of Captains” for research purposes, who are under the age of 40 or perhaps 45 even?
My answer is zero. What’s yours?
Exactly!
June 12th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Totally agree younglefty. I’m not writing pieces for anyone else, I am writing them because I like the content. Of course, it’s nice to get people that like the same content and want to have a conversation about it.
Similar to this thread, I suppose.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Is that like the Colgate Cavity Patrol or something?
June 12th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
Guys, great talk, but I’ve gotta run. Stuff to get done before the weekend. Great talk.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Michael Vick is the greatest athlete ever to pretend to play QB in the NFL.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
+6 Joey
You get this too Joey. It was approved by the Commission too. You’ll have plenty of time on here to figure out what it means.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
That also has a lot to do with my handle…
But they also didn’t mention Vick’s winning percentage along with completion… which isn’t shabby for many starting QBs still with jobs.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
@ Spence, I guess golf was a bad example.
@ Paolo, that’s great that people don’t read newspapers and magazines any more, but it’s not great that people now think opinion is more important than information. Any one can have an opinion, its the information you’re basing it on that’s important.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
Well, they are kind of like those Crest Cavity Creeps of yesteryear (YouTube or Google it those of you under 30), but not really because they don’t make holes in teeth.
Current members with Carte Blanche status are Captains Duffy, Hernia, and Mexico. They do a lot of quality heavy lifting behind the scenes here too with an occasional temporary classified duty for the sake of the global mission as directed by TBL Godfather.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
it really is, unfortunately.
there are two guys non-hardcore golf fans care about…1.5 being tiger, the other .5 being phil. it’s a business to the guys getting paid to sell shit, it’s my passion. that’s the big difference regarding that.
not sure if this relates to the previous comments or the actual post, i kinda jumped in midstream.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
makblunt and MATTRYAN,
Michael Vick’s highest single-season completion percentage is not as high as Drew Brees’s lowest single-season completion percentage.
I’d doubt that the mainstream journalists would know that or care to report it if they did. That’s why blogs are necessary.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
…and all I did was take 3 minutes to look it up on the Internet.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
Business is business. It sucks that people don’t know about a lot of the top ten golfers, but if you are a golf reporter, it’s Tiger, Phil, maybe Sergiblow or bust. They are in the business of making money, not objective news. As a newly hired reporter, I would love to say that my small weekly doesn’t practice this, but I’d be lying.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
No pamphlet?
June 12th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
I didn’t realize the mainstream media never criticized Michael Vick of being just a running quarterback.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
I read the AJC daily.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
It’s information or opinion no matter what the medium. The medium itself is not relevant to the factual nature of the information or otherwise. This is the key point most miss.
It’s up to YOU the reader to determine what is fact and what is opinion and what is just plain BS no matter what the medium. This is what the establishment media off the internet, as well as those with sites on the internet spinning the same shit they spin everywhere else, did not want us to do by telling US what to think.
Meanwhile those of us who know how to think already prefer just to get the information, whether fact, opinion, propaganda, disinformation, or hooey, and decide for ourselves.
Thus as the Scripture dictates we have the modern miracle medium of The Big Lead thanks to our TBL Godfather for the sake of better sports coverage than those false prophets calling themselves Worldwide Leaders. Can I get a lay-up? An AMEN?!
Mass/service/worship has ended, go now in peace for a solid weekend.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
How many fricking times did we hear that the reason that Michael Vick couldn’t complete passes was because his receivers suck?
And yet, they don’t suck anymore with Matt Ryan at quarterback. They’re fucking Pro Bowlers.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
Jay, the key word I used was “pretend”.
/Falcons suck
June 12th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
Great. Awful paper Gods. Metro Atlanta is a primarily Protestant city that I learned hates Roman Catholics (and Italian-looking half guido Yankees too) like me, yet for the sake of an atheist Ted Turner no way they can’t put him down in the local press. I lived there 3.5 years.
I could on but what is the point with so much else available to read online?
I guess you count one person. More power to you in Metro Atlanta then.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
About the same amount of times that people said Mike Vick needed to become a better passer?
June 12th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
This is a two way street though. If every golf-related headline or story wasn’t about Tiger or Phil, and they covered golf like they cover the four major sports, you’d know who these other guys are. And then, journalists could write and talk about golf more often, since they’d have more content. It made me sick to my stomach the way NBC covered Tiger the year Michael Campbell won the U.S. Open. He was six shots back to start on Sunday. I’m sorry. If you know anything about golf, you know that’s insurmountable at the U.S. Open. Yet, he was the story, and Campbell and Gore were secondary. That’s pitiful.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
They were all high draft picks too, Jay. But it was all their fault Vick wouldn’t throw them the ball in single coverage.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
I agree with that. People confuse journalists with the newspaper industry.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
How about this year’s “Tiger and Phil” coverage of The Masters?
I don’t even remember the name of the Japanese guy who finished ahead of both of them. And that’s not my fault. It’s because exactly two of his shots were shown on Sunday.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
Dude, I think you should calm down on religion in general. I for one think there is little difference between a protestant or a catholic, just different shades of crazy.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
lefty…agreed.
but lets not pretend that it’s just the writers’ fault. 99% of tour pros have the personality of cardboard and, since golf is an insular sport, really have nothing else to offer. it’s why an everyman with personality like boo weekley or john daly can be such a huge star because they stick out like a splash of color on a white wall.
tiger and phil get so much ink because they’re just that much better than everyone else and want to make as much coin as possible so they flash their logos at every chance they get.
if vijay gave a shit, he’d have been a huge star in the mid 2000’s, but he hated the media and didn’t want the exposure so he withdrew himself. that’s fine and dandy, but it’s not getting people drawn to the sport.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
I’m just thankful I didn’t have to watch the broadcast of that. Although, to be fair, both of them had legitimate chances to have a say in the outcome as late as 15, and maybe even 16.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
Nice.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
who cares? the show tiger and phil put on that day was better than anything the leaders could’ve given us.
i showed up to easter mass 45 minutes late and almost gave my grandmother a heart attack just so i could see the 9th hole of phil’s front 9 30.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Good point spencer.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
You could show the leaders’ shots live, and run the field on tape delay, instead of vice versa.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
I think that’s part of the reason I like Vijay. Another reason is the whole “I’m gonna knock the horsepiss out of this thing, and not care where it goes. 98 yards in from the rough is better than 140 from the fairway.” attitude he plays with.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
especially when one of them is a top 5 player (kenny perry) and one of the others the winner of one of the more exciting us opens (cabrera).
chad campbell is boring as fuck tho. if a dude with “jani king” on his shirt won the masters, id have been kinda salty.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
lefty…im a huge vijay fan. i just wish he could putt.
i guess i have a soft spot for pros who can’t putt seeing as i can’t putt for shit myself.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
For more Geoff Baker hate, here is an article from Febuary where Baker essentially calls the entire 2003 Mariners roiders, via Shysterball. Hilarity, naturally, ensues.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/shysterball/article/geoff-baker-rigidity-award-to-geoff-baker/
June 12th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
spencer – I, too, find myself pulling for players with flaws. Makes them seem more human I guess. Examples would be Freddie Boom Boom and DL3. Tiger’s game is unreal, but rooting for him seems too easy. I don’t particularly care for Goosen for the same reason.
As an aside, I know I went through that whole thing about not caring whether people read my blog, but check it out next Thursday. I’ve got a good post lined up for the U.S. Open.
/not a shameless self promotion
//I promise
June 12th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
Is that a rhetorical question? Or are you admitting what the entire South Side knows (that you’re either annoying or stupid or both). Thanks for ruining the South Side Irish Parade btw.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
My answer is zero. What’s yours?
Exactly!
I read the KC Star everyday and get four magazines (Esquire, Time, Outside, and Relix). However, your point is taken. I’m pretty sure I could read all the articles in those mags if I waited a month and they were put online. I dig sitting on the back porch at night and reading them.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
Dude, I think you should calm down on religion in general. I for one think there is little difference between a protestant or a catholic, just different shades of crazy.
I just sat through a hour and half catholic wedding. The last protestant wedding I went to lasted 20 minutes and that’s just because they had to play stupid as pre-recorded music while everyone stared at the uncomfortable bride and groom. However, the catholic wedding had a completely open bar and five types of brown liquor. I’ll call it draw.
June 12th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
I’m just pumped you ran a photo from Can’t Buy Me Love — perhaps the greatest HS movie ever (well — after All the Right Moves). You can never have enough pix of Cindy Mancini.
June 12th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
why not? have you/they tried? i’d venture to say nothing is out of reach. you saw that the 49ers president just did an interview with Niners nation, right?