Simple Error or Memphis Trade in the Works? Also, the Nixed Boston-Detroit Blockbuster
NBA, NBA Draft June 23rd. 2009, 10:00am
A reader captured this screen grab from Yahoo late last week. You’ll notice Memphis is listed at No. 2 and No. 8. It’s either a simple mistake, or perhaps someone at Yahoo is certain of what’s being speculated: the Knicks are about to move up in the draft to get the No. 2 pick and select Spain wunderkind Ricky Rubio. Peter “I throw shit against the wall, 10 percent of it sticks” Vecsey of the NY Post adds to the speculation today.
Though the Memphis fanbase won’t be thrilled, neither Rubio nor Thabeet want any part of Memphis, and since the team already spent a No. 3 pick on a PG, what about dealing the No. 2 pick to the Knicks for the No. 8 and David Lee (sign and trade)? The Grizzlies would get a rebounding machine to go next to Gasol, and with the 8th pick it could take a slasher/scorer like Demar DeRozan, Gerald Henderson, or even grab a PG like Jonny Flynn, should he fall that far. Might not be a bad move for the Grizzlies.
Vecsey’s deal is much more complicated, and would entail the the Knicks getting the the 5th pick from Washington, and then dealing the 5th and 8th picks to Memphis for No. 2. We have liked the little we’ve seen from Rubio, but we’ll say it again: We’d sooner have Stephen Curry.
In non-draft news, this trade was recently rejected according to Woj at Yahoo Sports:
Detroit gets: Rondo, Ray Allen
Boston gets: Stuckey, Prince, Rip Hamilton
Sure sounds like Boston’s desperate to get younger, huh? Tough to move Ray Allen without packaging him with someone else, and after the postseason Rondo had, that makes sense. (What’s the friction?) But overhauling your backcourt one year removed from a title would probably set the franchise back, wouldn’t it?
93 Responses to “Simple Error or Memphis Trade in the Works? Also, the Nixed Boston-Detroit Blockbuster”
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June 23rd, 2009 at 10:05 am
Is Joe Dumars trying to finish off the Pistons? That’s a godawful trade!
As for the Knicks-Griz deal…it makes sense for both. NYC wants talent and flash and D’Antoni can work with Euro players. Memphis doesn’t need Rubio and can still get a Tyreke Evans or Gerald Henderson at #8 — and get him at a cheaper rate, which is important for the Grizzlies as they try to find a new buyer.
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:05 am
Rondo (even if he’s an immature ass) >>>>>>> Stuckey
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:05 am
I like Woj’s stuff. One of the best at Yahoo!
But this trade is ridiculously stacked against Pistons and for Boston. No way it even reached slightly serious conversation.
No time to chat. Headed to Detroit for Tigers-Cubs!!!!!
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:06 am
Hamilton is a younger, better version of Ray Allen. Not that bad of a deal. Besides, Scalabrine is more than capable of running the point.
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:06 am
OK, just read the column more…. Pistons pretty much told Boston to go fuck themselves. Good for you, Joe D.
OK, now I’m off to Detroit!! TREES, BIDDIES!
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:07 am
But if you are Boston you, get two decently aged pieces in Rip and Tayshaun in exchange for Rondo. Problem is…. who do you trust at point guard?
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:08 am
Then why isn’t New York at #2 in the mistake?
/This question has nothing to do with New York being one of the teams
//sincere
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:12 am
How do you figure, Rip is a nice player who’s on the decline. I’m a Tayshaun fan, but he’s a role player. Stuckey sucks, I know he’s young but he’s terrible, Rondo would be a huge upgrade. Without looking I would imagine Det would clear a lot of salary in the process.
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:12 am
isn’t it almost like dumars is overthinking the cap? there’s no reason to even entertain this deal. you’re getting rondo and an old man and giving up 2 pretty young nice players in stuckey and prince. rip’s prime is done
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:12 am
People think that’s a good trade for Boston???
Stuckey is nothing, Prince is nice, and Rip is a younger (but worse) version of Ray Allen. For the duration of their contracts, Ray will be far better than Rip.
Rondo’s a top 5 point guard.
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:15 am
Will this be one of those deals where the deal is already made, but the NBA won’t let them announce the trade until like Septemeber?
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:16 am
yea, because PG’s like rondo grow on trees.
stuckey is nice enough but prince and rip are living off of their reputations from 2004 at this point. allen is good enough for another couple of years, but even then…id make that trade if i were the pistons every day of the week.
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:16 am
I don;t understand all the hate for Rip…. he;s coming off of a year where he had to share time with ALLEN IVERSON and had to get used to a new, young point guard. His entire world was basically flipped upside down last year. He’ll be back to being good this year.
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:17 am
more like dumars is a shitty GM who got lucky at the beginning of his career and hasn’t done shit since.
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:18 am
I’ve been down on Rip forever. He was the 5th best player on their title team.
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:22 am
This reminds me: did SAS ever finish his twitter rant yesterday?
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:22 am
correx - he played like a top 5 pG in the chicago series. didnt in the reg season. he COULD be a top 5 pg if he plays an entire season like the chicago series.
sell high!
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:23 am
Let’s step back for a moment:
Detroit gets Rondo and Allen. OK, so you haven’t fixed the big issue from last year — Rip v Iverson — unless you plan to: A) Play AI at the point and Allen at the 2 (meaning Rondo’s on the bench) or B) Play Rondo at the point and Iverson at the 2 (meaning Ray’s on the bench and Iverson can’t handle the ball, which he doesn’t like). Oh and Detroit trades away their best scorer and their best defender and a young, cheap guard.
For Boston, they just trade away one of the “Big 3″ plus their starting PG. Getting Rip to take Ray’s spot = different style of play but he’s younger. Tayshaun adds defensive capacity to the line-up. But would you trust Stuckey as your starting PG?
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:23 am
it’s the poor defense and limited offense. when asked to actually do shit without chauncey, sheed and a tayshaun prince who doesn’t completely disappear on offense, he’s easily negated.
plus, he’s ugly. and wears a mask. and is gay*.
*may or may not be true
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:25 am
what PG’s played better in the regular season?
CP3, deron, chauncey, parker, and…nash?
id take rondo’s D over parker and nash’s O. regardless, he belongs in the conversation and if he could ever develop a decent jumper, he’d be fucking tits.
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:26 am
BFFredo, isn’t AI gone? I’m pretty sure his contract is done and he’ll be struggling to find work this summer.
Stuckey is terrible, I can’t say it enough times, he’s a PG who can’t dribble, pass, or shoot.
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:26 am
No. If he plays like he did in Chicago, he’s the 2nd best player in the league behind Lebron.
He did play like a top 5 PG in the regular season.
Iverson’s a free agent. He’s gone. Problem solved.
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:27 am
Spike Lee didnt ask Rip Hamilton to star in his masterpiece did he? Didnt think so.
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:28 am
I have no idea how some of you guys think Detroit is getting screwed in this deal. Getting Rondo is huge for Detroit, the guy has turned into a potential walking triple double (in the post-season!) and hasn’t even touched his “ceiling.”
Hamilton is terribly overrated…a non-factor defensively, who doesn’t rebound or pass. Why is that an upgrade over Ray Allen? Allen is a much better playmaker..MUCH. Sure you’re getting younger at shooting guard, but you’re losing Rondo which is a terrible mistake.
Also, saw Rip at XS in Vegas this weekend, I asked him for a picture and told him that I was from Detroit and that George Blaha was my favorite announcer. When he said “maybe later,” I said I was a laid off GM auto worker. He still declined.
Asshole.
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:29 am
@cursed: Clearly I agree with you.
/fellow Basketball Expert’d
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:33 am
why leave a top 5 PG wide open?
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:35 am
Outside of CP3 and D. Williams, who would you take over him if you were starting a team? Parker? Derrick Rose?
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:35 am
He could smell the scent of Kobe on you cursed
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:35 am
Well if he’s gay, we certainly can’t have any of that shit. /spits
But sexual orientation notwithstanding, he is a catch and shoot guard, which is exactly what ray allen’s role is with the c’s. But with rip, they get a younger catch and shoot guard AND a defensive sf who does dirty work.
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:37 am
very good
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:38 am
Derrick Rose in a cocaine heart beat.
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:39 am
except rip doesn’t shoot 3’s. allen is way better than rip at this point.
and “dirty work” is what people say you do when you really don’t do anything. prince has no O anymore and his D is ridiculously overrated…
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:44 am
I agree, but I can’t think of 2 more players I would take at the PG position. I would take D. williams, CP3, Derrick Rose, Rondo and then Parker. Parker would be higher if this was for one season, but for starting a team youth always prevails.
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:45 am
Check his stats.
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:45 am
This is one of those times when I can’t buy into two guys who were integral parts of a team winning a championship are 5 years later considered overrated.
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:45 am
He did play like a top 5 PG in the regular season
based on your favorite PER, Ronda ranked 9th.
but I can’t think of 2 more players I would take at the PG position
Devin Harris
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:49 am
I hate PER. I’ve said this many times. It overvalues chuckers.
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:51 am
did you even read the article? the deal was floated by a lower level exec for the celtics to a lower level exec from the pistons. dumars was not even involved,nor was ainge. you are going to hear rumors all week.
however, allen will be moved this week.
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:55 am
you really should though.
in his prime ben wallace, chauncey and sheed were way more important to that team than a jump shooter who doesn’t play D and a D-stopper on the wing who, 5 years later, can’t stop anyone or score.
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:57 am
+1 sparty
@nickp- so rondo top 5 pg was your opinion?
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:57 am
sparty, doesnt it feel like Detroit is salary dumping, between Chauncey last year and the rumored moves this year. And not salary dumping in a good way (to make a run at a free agent), but salary dumping to cut costs because Detroit is dying. I’d be worried if I was a pistons fan.
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:57 am
The article also mentioned that Ainge uses low-level guys often so he has plausible deniability.
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:00 am
The stats bear it out also, irish. Plus no PG has the ceiling Rondo has (not even Rose).
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:01 am
i am. rosenberg wrote a good article today that dumars has to sign or trade for guys this year and not wait for next year. otherwise he could be left overpaying for someone, or left with a bag of cash.
correct. so it definitely could have came from ainge, but no where does it say that dumars entertained the idea.
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:01 am
nick, it’s 11 am, buddy, wake up
cp3, deron, nash, tony parker are obvious
the 5th spot could go to Kidd (much improved outside shot; rondo shoe 31% from three), Billups (mvp contention for some of the season), calderon (underrated), and devin harris was a monster.
rondo a top 10 PG i’ll give you. no way top 5
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:03 am
Plus no PG has the ceiling Rondo has
I’ll remember that one for when people are bashing Dwight
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:04 am
I forgot about Billips..I would take him over Rondo for a season or two, but I’m not sure I would if I were starting a team.
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:07 am
Who bashes Dwight? People say he needs to work on his offense (which he does), but who bashes a player who goes for a minimum of 15-10 every single night?
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:09 am
cp,dwill,parker are the only 3 Id rather have
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:10 am
but who bashes a player who goes for a minimum of 15-10 every single night?
nobody roots for Goliath- Wilt the Stilt
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:10 am
if patrick gets him to nail that baseline shot. he will be unstoppable.
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:12 am
Word. He would average 30 a night if he could hit a 17 footer with consistency.
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:15 am
Kidd is so laughable there’s no point in even responding to it. Billups is another guy from the 2003 Det team still living on reputation. Caleron, meh, average. Devin Harris had a great season, but was he just a chucker on a bad team? Where was that when he was playing with good players in Dallas?
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:17 am
He would average 30 a night if he could hit a 17 footer with consistency
he would average 30 a night if he hit free throws
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:17 am
Devin Harris was not a monster. At all.
He got off to a nice start, got himself a fraudulent All-Star nod, then tanked in the second half.
You scoff at Rondo’s 31% from 3, yet Harris only shot 29%.
Plus Rondo is muuuch better on defense.
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:18 am
Chauncey proved his worth getting Denver to play at or above potential once he got there…
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:20 am
Or at least would have gotten to Game 6. Guess he was too busy filming all those new commercials during the finals to practice.
/welcome to over-exposed and over-hyped Dwight
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:23 am
@coop- how is Dwight over-hyped?
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:24 am
I don’t think Howard is over-hyped at all, but maybe because I am comparing him to LeBron, who epitomizes over-hype.
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:26 am
ah, but young grasshopper, it’s difficult to take or make 3’s without a post presence to free you up.
rondo playing with 2 HOFs and Paul pierce
Harris playing with VC and …
exactly
how are you valuing the defense of rondo over harris? eyeball test?
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:27 am
Player A: 6.9 assists / 3.1 turnovers, 43%/29%/82%, 3.4 rebounds
Player B:: 8.2 assists / 2.6 turnovers, 51%/31%/64%, 5.2 rebounds
Which of those players do you want, TBL?
Other than taking a lot more shots, what is Harris good at?
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:28 am
how are you valuing the defense of rondo over harris? eyeball test?
probably team defense eff
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:28 am
If you only make 29% of your 3s, you shouldn’t even be shooting them. And yet he fired up 3.2 per game.
At least Rondo realized he shouldn’t be shooting them. Shot less than 1 per game.
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:30 am
Gasol ended any chance of Dwight being over-hyped
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:33 am
Gasol and two of his friends
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:35 am
Watching NickP and TBL go at it is like watching Obama versus a deaf mute in a debate.
No offense, TBL, you get paid for off the cuff opinions.
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:40 am
Unless Garnett is really done, I don’t see why the Celtics need to mess with that roster. They can make another run next year if they bring back one or two key role players. Then Allen comes off the cap after next year, Pierce after that, and then KG. We’re talking $20 million off the cap each year just right there. Plus, Stuckey sucks, Rip is only 2 years younger than Allen but declining faster, and Prince is going to be 30. So it’s not like they’re getting younger in a meaningful way.
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:44 am
Dumars traded the wrong guy last year. Instead of dumping Chauncey, he should have been trying to dump Prince and Hamilton. Chauncey proved this year that he is still a top 10 point guard, and has some gas left in the tank.
Joe D. needs to reload, and quickly.
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:09 pm
I don’t see why the Celtics need to mess with that roster.
The don’t even have a full roster, and they’re way over the cap. You have to mess with the roster. So you deal your expiring contract (allen) for quality pieces.
This mentioned trade is utterly and completely retarded. Detroit may make a move, but they’ve got crazy cap space already, and they just extended Prince. They may be trying to get off of Stuckey, but not that hard.
Names to watch, for real. Amare, T Mac, Kirk Hinrich, Antawn Jamison
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Late to the show, but it wouldn’t be a bad deal for either team.
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:15 pm
They have their core intact, pick up another player with mid-level, then a few veteran minimums like McDyess or someone who just wants a ring before they retire. They’re one of the elite teams, they’re bound to be over the cap.
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:27 pm
They have their core intact
You can think that, but they’re dealing Allen as fast as they can for better pieces. Rondo’s name has been whispered in trade talks for a long time.
If I were Boston, I’d definitely trade Rondo straight up for Devin Harris. Not that that’s the deal, but I think Harris is a better player, and that’s my way of indicating that. I don’t have to look up shooting percentage to have an opinion.
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:29 pm
Didn’t know Iverson had bolted from Motown. My bad.
Thought still applies: this does nothing for Detroit. They don’t get younger or better (the hallmarks of a salary dump/blowing up the team) for the talent they give up.
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:32 pm
BFFredo, you need to go and look at what Detroit is sitting on.
salary data for detroit
They’re in flux already.
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:35 pm
I do think that. I was more impressed with what Boston did this year than what they did last year. They seem like they have something special there. If I were Ainge, I’d give it one more go before shaking things up. Then again, this is all assuming that KG isn’t done.
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:41 pm
If you were Ainge, and you didn’t make some moves, you would not have 12 dudes to start the season, much less a full roster. You wouldn’t have the NBA caliber players to play the season out, and your team is old. So unless you’re expecting guys to come and play for the minimum, you’re not going to get off the ground.
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:47 pm
@Dirtheavy: fair enough. My point was if you are going to blow up that team, you do it for cheap talent, cash and/or draft picks. Detroit is getting a good young PG and an almost-ready-to-retire superstar. Where’s the flexibility? Are they going to buy out Ray Allen and let him walk for nothing?
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:53 pm
Ray Allen was one of the best Offensive players in the league last year and has a 20M contract coming off the books. He has a ton of value both if he can still play or not. Would much rather Rayray at 20 for next year (then off the books) over Rip at 11.
Rondo is very good and despite the fact that he is a poor shooter he makes up for in many other ways. Basically because the leauge overpays for scoring you will nearly almost always get more value for Rondo versus any other pg who ‘looks’ to be top 5 or top 10. I would in nearly every case rather Rondo (over harris, TP, Deron even) as scoring is just usually easier to find than good rebounding and defense.
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Why do you keep harping on this point? I said keep the core intact, and add supporting players around them for a final go. I even said I expect veterans to come play for the minimum. It’s happened to teams in the past, and I’m sure it’ll could happen again. You act like no team ever goes into the offseason over the cap and not having a full roster.
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:59 pm
Detroit is getting a good young PG and an almost-ready-to-retire superstar. Where’s the flexibility? Are they going to buy out Ray Allen and let him walk for nothing?
summer of 2010. Detroit is taking next year off, getting ready for that.
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:01 pm
Also, according to HoopsHype, Boston is actually going into the offseason with 7 million less on payroll than the previous year. They’re not in that bad of shape. You could use that money to resign Davis and/or Powe. Assuming the market doesn’t overpay those guys. Garnett is going from $24 mil to $16 mil, so that helps.
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:08 pm
But what are you basing your opinion on? NJ record? How they did in the playoffs? Seriously what leads you to conclude that Harris is a better player?
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:12 pm
He looks like a better player. He’s the guy that will take a clutch shot. Can you see Rondo making a jumper with the game on the line?
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:18 pm
Seriously what leads you to conclude that Harris is a better player?
ppg? ts%? higher defensive rating? higher offensive win share?
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:26 pm
@irish: In defensive rating, you want to have a lower number.
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:28 pm
my bad. had that wrong
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:29 pm
This is good, at least these are reason which are better than ‘looks… Also, for Def Rating, you want Lower (less points given up per 100, Dho was 1 in league). For me it comes down to this, Rondo is one of the best defensive players in the league and is underated on offense because of his O boards.
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:42 pm
I was making a parallel that any time LeBron has a setback he’s immediately over hyped and does too many commercials. Dwight did get a little too “oh my god he’s in the same league as Lebron/Kobe/Dwade” after destroying the pitiful big men of the Cavs. Lakers series brought that back down to earth a little.
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:49 pm
But what are you basing your opinion on? NJ record? How they did in the playoffs? Seriously what leads you to conclude that Harris is a better player?
I just think it. Thanks to Irish for making an attempt to prove my point statistically. I can’t say I have seen a million NJ games, but I saw Harris play a whole bunch w/Dallas, and wish they hadn’t traded him. I have also seen way more Boston Celtics than I particularly care too, and find Rondo to do a whole bunch of things that obviously make his veteran teammates mad.
Oh, and I think Hoops World has better salary info than Hoops Hype. Hoops hype seems to be missing some contracts that were signed this spring. (e.g. Devin Harris, Jason Maxiell)
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:53 pm
swing and a miss Coop. better luck tomorrow
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:59 pm
good movie
June 23rd, 2009 at 2:13 pm
I cant help it my comments are too deep and intellectual for you retards.
/clearly not true
June 23rd, 2009 at 2:20 pm
+1