Got It. When the Sport is Hockey, Fighters are ‘Retaliating.’ When it’s Basketball, They Are Thugs.
Uncategorized December 26th. 2006, 5:39pmChances are good you haven’t seen this clip. It hasn’t been incessantly played on Sportscenter. It’s of a man named Scott Nichol, who plays hockey for the Nashville Predators, sucker punching Jaroslav Spacek, who plays for the Buffalo Sabres.
Spacek pushes Nichol into the goal. Probably not a routine play, but it happens fairly often in hockey. Nichol stands up, comes from behind Spacek, and drills him with a roundhouse to the face. Spacek never saw it coming. He appears to get knocked out cold.
It is approximately 14 times worse than what Carmelo Anthony did to Mardy Collins. And before you defend Nichol saying, ‘he was pushed into the net!’ we can already hear Anthony’s response: ‘One guy took me by the throat, and another Collins is a punk who hammered my teammate deliberately on the fast break.’
Wish we were making this up, but the bumbling hockey announcer actually says, ‘Scotty Nicol was irritated … Nichol simply retaliated for getting drilled into the net.’
No mention of thug. No mention of the incident being a ‘black eye for hockey.’ No moral outrage. Just a few blogs discussed it.
Nichol Sucker Punch (James Mirtle)
Nine Games for Nichol (Bflo Blog)
Ugly (Reds Basement)
28 Responses to “Got It. When the Sport is Hockey, Fighters are ‘Retaliating.’ When it’s Basketball, They Are Thugs.”
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December 26th, 2006 at 7:27 pm
There’s a big difference here – the players in the NBA are called “thugs” with or without last weeks fight.
Actually, in hockey the fighters are called “goons.” And while the sucker punch is horrible, fighting in the sport and policing it’s own has been a part of the fabric of the game since inception. Bitch-slapping in the NBA has not.
Apples and oranges. Nice try.
December 26th, 2006 at 9:01 pm
You’re nuts. First of all, the guy got a 9 game suspension… so clearly it was viewed by the league as something outside what is generally accepted as a hockey fight. Also, I’m willing to bet those are hometown announcers. What announcer that is getting paid by the team (or a network that is heavily influenced by the teams) is going to throw a hometown player under the bus immediately after a play.
December 26th, 2006 at 9:16 pm
Wrong Jim. Goons and pimp-slaps go way back in hoops. “Jungle” Jim Loscutoff (1956-64)was one of the Boston Celtics’ – Red Aeurbach’s- “goos” – Tom Heinsohn was the other. Clyde Lovellette, who played for four teams from 1954-64 was the “goon” for four different teams.
Fighting was part of the fabric of the NBA. However, when black players came front and center in the Association, “Goonery” became “Thuggery.”
It’s not apples and oranges – it’s black and white.
December 26th, 2006 at 9:20 pm
Not to mention that the one sucker punch was harder than all the sissy slaps and basketball punches put together. Oh well, Basketball players aren’t so tough without their pistols to wip people with anyway.
December 26th, 2006 at 9:37 pm
Hmm, why was it not all over Sportscenter?
Perhaps because a bench clearing brawl did not happen as a result?
Or because ESPN shows about 2 minutes of hockey compared to 35 minutes of hoops?
As Jim said above, fighting is a part of the sport. What happened here was wrong, and the guy was suspended for 9 games, rightfully so. Fighting is not a part of basketball, never has been.
December 26th, 2006 at 9:42 pm
Jim, you don’t seem to know about Rudy Tomjanovich, do you? The NBA has taken steps to rid itself of fighting, but before the league started cracking down, fights were commonplace, as was grabbing shirttails and whatnot as players ran down the floor. The NBA made a conscious institution-side decision to rid itself of fighting and cheap shots. The NHL, on the other hand, still has enough people like you defending fighting as “just a part of the game” that this sort of thing happens all the time. The league could take the same sort of stand the major pro leagues do and simply ban it. However, even in this television age, there persist fears of a cheap shots galore if fights are eradicated. What’s more, international hockey doesn’t allow fights, and I seem to recall those games being pretty heated and exciting.
December 26th, 2006 at 10:34 pm
Was the hockey fight on the nightly news? Was the hockey fight viewed as the death of sportsmanship? Were the players involved characterized as criminals? Were there racist morons making statements about players’ lack of education? Were any of them referred to as ‘apes’, as the NBA players were by several of the hundreds of commenters who found time to spew hatred at the league after the Knicks/Nuggets fight?
No?
People can keep making excuses for the racist, bigoted attitudes with which many in the media and many sports ‘fans’ treat the NBA. The proof is right in front of people’s faces, but they are either too stupid or too afraid to confront it. The hypocrisy is staggering.
- Paulsen
December 26th, 2006 at 11:59 pm
Ed-
Did you read what I wrote about the history of basketball?! Did you read David A’s comment? What part of NBA history don’t you understand? It’s just that, up to the Washington-Rudy T. incident, fights and brawls that took place regularly in the NBA were among white players. It’s not that difficult to inform yourself about the Association…
December 26th, 2006 at 11:59 pm
Here’s an interesting quote from Steve Nash regarding Carmelo Anthony’s, umm, punch & run the other night:
“Typical NBA punch,” Nash told the Toronto Globe and Mail. “In hockey, your own team would beat you up for that.”
That’s pretty funny.
December 27th, 2006 at 12:18 am
Ed: So now the Nuggets-Knicks skirmish was a “bench-clearing brawl?” Are you aware that only two players left the bench?
It’s an automatic suspension when a guy leaves the bench during a fight, and only two guys were suspended for that, despite the fact each team probably had 10 guys riding the pine (seven dressed, three not dressed). Know your facts.
December 27th, 2006 at 12:21 am
I thought this was going to be about the Wilbon went on a hissy fit about the sucker punch last week on PTI.
The reason people didnt talk about this incident is because ESPN doesnt own hockey and therefore barely acknowledges it exists.
December 27th, 2006 at 12:28 am
Oh good god. Did Mr. Nichols ever make a video tape in which he advocated the murder of “snitches?” Sorry. Must have missed it. There is a double-standard in regards to black and white athletes. Been around longer than any commenter on here for sure. But to say this is a representation of it is rediculous.
The fact is this. The suspensions and media coverage revolved not around the race of the players, but the sports they play. In the not-on-OLN NBA, the people in the most expensive seats are right next to the playing surface, and there is no physical barrier between them and the players. They draw ratings in the NBA, so when a brawl happens, it matters a bit more.
When that fight spilled into the stands, and the millionaires that sit in those seats, David Stern saw a huge PR problem (potential loss of income) for the league. In hockey, which nobody watches (poker tournaments draw better), there is a Roman coliseum effect to the action. The fans are right there, but safely seperated from any brutality that might occur.
See the difference? A fight spills out in an NBA game, and rich non-athletes get thrown into the mix wether they like it or not. How does it look if Spike Lee gets k.t.f.o. at a knicks game?
A brawl breaks out in Hockey, and there is no risk, all reward. The only people who watch it have a deeper understanding of the game, and know what Nichols did doesn’t fall under the purview of policing the game. People love a good fight. They just don’t want to be a party to it.
I will grant you the racism and double-standard of the NBA, but ditch the damn crutch already. I would have given Anthony 10 games myself. But don’t give me any shit about NBA players being stereotyped. Their reps are well-deserved as self-entitled pricks who try to act hard to improve their street cred and shoe sales. There is relatively less entitlement on the part of an NHL player, in part because they make much less and their sport is less popular
There were legitamate reasons for the amount of coverage and fines for each event. Get over it.
December 27th, 2006 at 1:35 am
Sports Vision- and anyone else who doesn’t understand….
Internationally, i.e. U.S., Canada, and Europe, hockey players are the equal on the entitlement-popularity scene. And of the three locales, infinitely more so in Canada and Europe. Additionally, hockey players, in and around their milieu, are just as much assholes as NBA players.
Spectators sitting courtside at NBA games isn’t a recent phenomenon and neither is the thought of putting a barrier around the basketball playing area – in fact, since your sense of commentating history is so vast, how the hell do you think ballers had the nickname “Cagers?” Because they actually played in caged floor areas to keep them separate from fans when they did fight!!!
Players in the NBA used to be able to police themselves and in fact did so until the “Jordan Rules-era” Detroit Pistons. David Stern saw, in MJ, an opportunity to separate himself from other leagues and actively promote individual stars over teams and give the appearance of having a “players’ league” in which to most of the public, the players appeared as partners in the NBA money-making endeavor (when, in fact, this couldn’t be farther from the truth).
And what the hell does this statement mean. “The people who watch it have a deeper understanding of the game” Deeper than who? Nichols’ is a bitch who got checked through the crease into the post. Sure it was a screwed move, but Nichols could have been cool and waited for another opportunity to bust ass. Oh, I’m sorry, I don’t understand hockey protocol. A quiet poke check that incapacitates another player, maybe breaks his ribs, and doesn’t get you five minutes isn’t as efficient as attempting to throw blows.
—————
Bet if you watch “Hockey Night in Canada” and then Canadian sports coverage, you’ll see a hockey fight before you see an NBA fight – and in Europe, you’ll see the same thing this time of year. So, the vast amount of “coverage” the fight received was limited to the U.S. – and even then it was, of course, ESPN (Disney) driven.
The quicker you understand what entities drive the “news” we see and what their agendas are, the quicker you’ll understand just how overblown the MSG fight was.
December 27th, 2006 at 2:51 am
The psychological maneuvering some go through to try and excuse away the bigotry with which the NBA is treated is hilarious.
Hockey players less entitled? NBA players are pricks? Their reps are well deserved? I know I’m wasting my time arguing with such brilliance, but exactly where do those perceptions come from? Stereotypes.
December 27th, 2006 at 3:19 am
You people are insane. The fact that people dont want to call this a matter of race and the national media isnt playing this up only justifies, Jason’s D-wil, and anybody elses claim that racism stil exsist in this country. There’s no reason why I shoudlnt see Barry Melrose’s mullet all over the World WIde calling for suspensions.
The fact of the matter is Steve Francis nailed it. You dont have to read into Carmelo’s tape to know where he came from, but i can guarentee you that in hockey there’s one or two of those athlete’s who represent a troubled enviroment, but b/c no one really cares rather hockey lives or dies we just shrug our shoulders amd pretend like whatever happens there doesnt exsist.
Please dont hide behind the history of a game to say that this wasnt an issue of race. Fact of the matter is, this fight happened and conversly when it happened a week later in hockey , the media did nothing. Controversy sells, and who better then black athletes from the urban areas to provide it. If Carmelo and Mardy were white, we wouldnt even be discussing this. No matter where the fight spilled into…rp
December 27th, 2006 at 6:22 am
Actully, both argumnts are correct.
-Anyyone who didn’t see a racial undertone in the coverage of the NBA fight wasn’t paying attention.
-But to compare it to coverage of a hockey fight is just dumb. Ugly hockey incidents don’t get much play because hockey doen’tget much play. If you’re gonna complin about the lack of coverage of the Nichol punch, then you should also be complaining about the lack of coverage of the sport in general. Beaause if you only want more attention to ugly hockey incidents, you’re no better than the media that played that NBA fight over and over and over….
December 27th, 2006 at 1:14 pm
Allow me to present the voice of reason, Jason Whitlock.
http://sports.aol.com/whitlock/nfl/_a/nba-players-need-to-rub-elbows-with/20061221095209990001
December 27th, 2006 at 4:53 pm
Whitlock’s article disgusted me. Those excuses he put forward are asinine. NBA players aren’t being called thugs because they fight near the fans. When Frank Francisco threw a chair at a fan in Oakland, I don’t remember anyone saying that all baseball players were thugs. When Gary Sheffield nearly punched a fan in Boston a year ago, I don’t remember anyone saying all baseball players were gangsters. What a pathetic cop out by Whitlock.
December 27th, 2006 at 7:05 pm
1. Most coverage is based on the popularity of the sport. Secondarily, whatever sport a particular network has rights to. The fact that ESPN and all the other Mickey Mouse entities have the rights to the NBA makes it more newsworthy according to their logic.
2. I agreed that there is racism involved. To make it THE issue misses the point entirely. When you have a sport that is almost entirely african american, any negative publicity can be correctly viewed as having some basis in racism. The people who decide the stories are almost always white. There should be some skepticism, but to allow that race is the only factor, when this was legitmately ugly on its own merits is bullshit. The fact that some white goon took out another white dude in a sport that borders on irrelevant by tv ratings standards has little to do with it.
3. With the jordan era came exposure. when the NBA policed itself, nobody was watching. When the NBA policed itself, the seats werent $1,000.00 ( $1162.00 Canadian :p) each. The new NBA has more to lose, so the punishment was stiffer. The NBA is more popular, so when something salacious comes along, it will get more run by the network that owns its tv rights.
4. As far as the racism aspect, yes, the league is almost entirely African American. Does this group on average get poor treatment from the media? Yes. Add that to that a league that plucks teenagers from usually crappy socio-economic conditions, hands them money and status they could only dream of, you are beggin for trouble. Shit, I probably couldn’t handle all that at 18. But they are asked to. Invariably shit gets crazy. It’s UNDERSTANDABLE. Does that make it right? Hell no. Was the coverage biased. It was ESPN, of course it was. Was it PRIMARILY racially motiated? HELL NO.
December 27th, 2006 at 7:27 pm
A question or two for Paulsen, if he’s still listening: you cite Francisco and Sheffield as examples where the media never called them “thugs” for their incidents with the fans. Last time I checked, both those guys are black. So: if your claim of “racism” is really true, then why did those two get a pass?
Also, SportsVision raised a point that of course went unanswered. Carmelo Anthony appeared in that “no snitching” video with a bunch of drug dealers. That, my friend, is the definition of a “thug.” So he fits the bill perfectly. If it had been Duncan or David Robinson involved in that fight (both black, obviously), do you think either of them would be labeled “thugs”? Of course not – because they’re not. Carmelo was called one because he is, plain and simple.
December 27th, 2006 at 8:28 pm
Wow, The Big Lead does it again!
This issue is way deeper than sports.
For anyone out there who categorically says this has nothing to do with race, this post is for you.
Is it all about race? Of course not.
There are SMALL minority of basketball players that are messing up the game, and they should be held accountable.
Most of its players do the right thing, are college educated, have their own two parent families and don’t get in trouble.
The same can be said for all sports.
One of the reasons why there are comparisons to hockey is because the NHL is a White sport and seemingly doesn’t give a damn when its players routinely have hospital visits for the unfortunate sake of financial and crazed fanaticism.
The violently passionate responses filled with hate, ludicrous and totally demoralizing words associated with a one punch “brawl” (lol–a brawl is not one punch, sorry all the outlets are unjustly characterizing this incident as a brawl for hype) just don’t happen unless there’s a Black face involved.
Two points about hockey:
Bertuzzi should have been fired from the league and thrown in jail for his mugging of Steve Moore and the same for McSorley’s bitch ass slash of Brashear (people forget about this).
Don’t like hypotheticals, but if either of those incidents happened in the NBA…my goodness!
What opponents of hockey violence are saying is that if you excuse hockey for anything and everything and then slam basketball you ARE the problem.
It’s all relative. Either be objective when these unfortunate incidents arise or shut the hell up!
That’s all people are asking.
Violence is violence period, regardless of race, society or sport.
Hockey needs to die if it continues to allow fights that eventually will result in death–sooner, not later.
Stern needs to understand that he is part of the problem here. If he immediately held the bitch ass cup thrower accountable–or any of the drunk ass clowns that entered the court and got K.T.F.O. for that matter–this would not be the problem it is today.
No, this was made to be exclusively about the players initially because of money like fans are the owners of the slave ship.
The NBA has less violence than any of the other sports in any given season.
That’s a fact!!!
There is no way Antonio Davis should have been suspended 5 games for coming to his WIFE’s aid.
What message is he sending there? The fans own the players?
Bullshit!!
I don’t give a damn if the malice in the Palace happened the night before the MSG incident, that was just excessive and the media attention was disgusting.
Fan’s behavior is never held accountable and that’s what needs to change NOW.
So it’s the word association here that people have a problem with.
For the record: This isn’t about the NHL’s lack of attention, the proximity of the fans in basketball, HIP HOP, the tank top and shorts that NBA players wear–thus being more visible, the stop snitching video–which has absolutely nothing to do with the attention this incident received, or the way players are individually marketed.
There was Sunday night football game in Green Bay just a couple of weeks where A.J. Hawk mauled the ball carrier on consecutive plays and wasn’t flagged or fined.
Someone find that clip and let’s talk!
Another thing, I’ve interviewed Whitlock and agree with some of his philosophy, but I have to disagree with some of the words in his piece–not all.
What I will say is that Blacks need to forget about White opinion and police themselves before the White powers to be do it “Sternly” for them.
December 27th, 2006 at 9:16 pm
Sorry folks, Steve Francis’ statement “that because there are more black players in the NBA, it’s under the microscope more than baseball or hockey.” And some of your assertions that the coverage of this incident is racist are just plain hogwash. And Francis’ words alone are far more racist than the coverage of the fight. That’s the glowing hypocrisy I just have to sit back and laugh at. It’s almost as if he’s saying “You know, the fight was horrible black eye on our sport, let me throw out the race card and see if it sticks.” It only sticks with those people who are looking for an excuse, a way for them to sweep under the rug the awful choice made by the players involved in the fracas. And now the same people are going to call out every subsequent altercation and use the Nuggets/Knicks incident as a litmus test. And then whine if future incidents don’t receive equal air time. Cry me a river.
Sorry folks, all incidents are not created equal. To compare this to a hockey fight, where brandishing fists are interwoven into the fabric of the game and players are dressed for protection. is comical and shows just how little the “race card” players actually know about the sport it uses as a comparison. To the poster who said “Fighting was part of the fabric of the NBA.” Sorry, you are wrong. A couple of cheap shot artists throwing an intentional elbow does not even remotely compare to the fighting which takes place in the NHL on a daily basis.
How come you haven’t compared the NBA incident to the far worse transgressions in the past committed by hockey goons Bertuzzi or McSorley and used it as the litmus test??? I’ll tell you why. Because everyone playing the race card now knows that kind of comparison completely invalidates their argument. So they conveniently hope that no one remembers that those incidents got 50 times the coverage this one did. And by the way, the Bertuzzi incident still gets dragged out even today when you see a newsworthy altercation. Card players, is it because Bertuzzi is white??? Of course not.
ESPN did not sensationalize this incident, and the NBA did not suspend the players involved, because the majority of them were black. The coverage and consequences received were due to the conscious actions of the parties involved. PERIOD.
December 27th, 2006 at 10:50 pm
Thank you Paulsen. I’ve often wondered when one of Whitlock’s “peers” will out him for the pandering snot that he is.
December 27th, 2006 at 11:45 pm
Mike – The point is that when something bad happens in the NBA, the whole league is painted with a broad brush. The reason I can give Francisco and Sheffield as examples is because when they do something wrong, all of baseball is not looked at as a ‘thug league’.
The NBA is viewed collectively, where the actions of one unfairly are reflected on all of the players. That is because of race. When Sheffield and Francisco did what they did, nobody said all baseball players were thugs. Nobody said anything about gangs.
D-Wil – Whitlock has been given a lot of praise thanks to his honesty regarding ESPN. That being said, while he can thrash ESPN personalities like Mike Lupica and Scoop Jackson for their hypocrisy, he seems to be completely blind to his own. This is a guy who once criticized Candace Parker for dunking because he thought she should avoid being a ’selfish punk’ (my paraphrasing his words) like the men in the NBA. Whitlock has his own biases that he lets seem through.
December 27th, 2006 at 11:50 pm
I meant to say: “Whitlock has his own biases that he lets seep through.”
And one more thing: defending the NHL by saying that fighting is just part of the game is asinine. If fighting was ‘just part of the NBA’, can anyone imagine how many Gary Thornes and Phil Mushnicks would be calling it a ‘thug haven’ or a ‘prison league’? The fact that fighting is accepted as just part of the game in the NHL speaks to the kind of pass white athletes seem to get.
When a white athlete gets into a fight, he’s “tough”. He’s Dick Butkus or Mike Ditka, a rough, tough red-blooded Man’s Man. When a black athlete gets into a fight, he’s a thug, unprofessional, out of control. The double standards are so blatant and pathetic that it’s almost surreal.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:51 am
Paulsen, please address the Carmelo “No Snitchin” Anthony aspect of this whole thing. ‘Melo *is* a thug. So is Zach Randolph. So is Ruben Patterson. Jason Kidd, beats his wife. Kobe Bryant, alleged rapist, admitted adulterer. The list goes on & on & on. But since these “young black men” (gotta love that phrase) play ball and make a shitload of money and “keep it real,” they get a pass from “black America” — hmmm, I wonder why that is ….
The bottom line is this: it is the players here that made the mistakes. For once in my life I would like to see the “black community” come out and say: you know what, that shit has no place in this game. Isiah and Mardy Collins and Nate Robinson and ‘Melo – they were wrong. They fucked up and should pay their punishments.
I find it humorous that instead of focusing at the actual actions here, you instead shift the focus over to how the media reacts to the whole thing, so you can shout “racism” from the rooftops and hope some of your bullshit actually sticks. Who gives a fuck about the media? Classic move of diverting attention from the real issue here, and not taking responsibility for ones’ (read: black people) actions. No surprise, really.
January 2nd, 2007 at 12:56 am
Mike,
Nobody is “shifting” the focus from the players to to the media. The coverage of the incidents is the topic, not the incidents themselves. In fact, you are the one who is attempting to “shift” the focus from the media back to the players or incident.
I do not recall one post in which the poster defended the actions of the players involved, or the incident in general. That is not being debated. The incident was ugly, the players exercised bad judgment and behaved in an indefensible manner.
The fact that the players acted inapproprately does not mitigate the media’s obligation to strive to maintain journalistic integrity and not pander too, or worse yet, propagate racial stereotyping.
True, the fact that ESPN has no economic interest in the promotion of hockey, and the sport’s overall waning popularity strains our analogy. But the point should be taken, nonetheless.
Taking connotation and context into consideration, “thug” is the mainstream media’s way of saying “nigger.”
Truth be told though, the NBA wants to have it’s cake and eat it too. The public lets them do it too. The NBA is aware of its image, it certainly doesn’t shun the way “the streets” embrace the game. It certainly markets its share of merchandise to “the streets.” But, then it doesn’t allow its players to sit courtside with a lime green fitted…
You know what the kicker is? The players gain street cred by rebuking the dress code and the media coverage and such. So, by attempting to elevate the image of the league, they also create new avenues for the athletes to connect to the streets.
January 6th, 2007 at 4:30 am
Mike, the way you post allllllmost makes me wanna get really deep into the way you mentally process information with such a primitive and distorted defense mechanism.
Yeah, the key word in all this is primitive.
Think about that.