The Pistons’ Troubles Began Long Before Curry
NBA July 1st. 2009, 1:30pm
Yesterday, the Detroit Pistons fired head coach Michael Curry after a disappointing 39-43 season and a first round playoff exit to the LeBrons. The Pistons’ problem was, indeed, head coaching but it stems back to the summer of 2005.
Detroit won the NBA title in 2004. They took the dynastic San Antonio Spurs to the limit in 2005, entering the fourth quarter of Game 7 tied at 57. Most teams would see that success as a sign their methods were working. The Pistons did not.
During that summer, Detroit fundamentally misapprehended their situation. They bought out Larry Brown’s contract, allowing the insufferable flirt to join the Knicks. They hired Flip Saunders to bring in his zany free-flowing masses, altering the team’s identity.
Larry Brown disciplined with gravitas. The players did not like him, but they respected him, they listened to him and they consequently played better because of him. He maximized the talent of a good collection of players and made them great.
The Pistons thought differently, considering their roster a bevy of stars shackled by Larry Brown’s demands. They believed their team of delicate artistes would flourish with a soft touch. They were wrong.
Detroit may not have foreseen Ben Wallace’s demise. It’s not intuitive that the maligned, skill-lacking player, who clawed his way into the league with hard work, would become moody and selfish when de-emphasized and dollar obsessed. No one would have predicted that the lovable fella with the gong, the headbands and the heart of gold would skunk a locker-room.
However, Detroit should have known their most talented player and largest personality Rasheed Wallace would devolve without restrictions. Under Saunders, Rasheed languished about the perimeter, lost focus for series of games and only briefly capitalized on his talent. That’s not surprising, considering it’s exactly what he did in every other similar situation.
The Pistons were the hardest working team in the NBA under Larry Brown. Under Flip Saunders, they became entitled and lazy. Saunders was the wrong type of coach for that Pistons team. He was also, simply, not a good coach. He made the playoffs a number of years in Minnesota. That’s the minimum one would expect from having Kevin Garnett during his prime.
Michael Curry was ineffectual when Detroit’s facade fell around him this season. Allen Iverson hastened the crumbling. But, the cracks in Detroit’s foundation have been there since 2005. The blame for that rests with the front office.
69 Responses to “The Pistons’ Troubles Began Long Before Curry”
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment.


July 1st, 2009 at 1:37 pm
He didn’t want to be there anymore. There’s only so much a front office can do when a coach doesn’t have his heart/mind set on the team. The Larry Brown Experiment was only going to work so long. Joe D. and the front office knew that.
Joe D. did. He offered just a bit less than Chicago did. Wallace knew he would get more touches on offense in Chicago than in Detroit, so he left. Plus, Joe D. didn’t offer a shload because Chauncey Billups was a free agent at the end of the following year. He needed the money for that.
Also, Flip Saunders looks constipated in that photo.
July 1st, 2009 at 1:39 pm
I am prety certain the Knicks came after Larry Brown and Larry Brown left the team. We didn’t get rid of him.
July 1st, 2009 at 1:42 pm
You’re fundamentally trying too hard.
July 1st, 2009 at 1:43 pm
Also…
Rasheed is only going to listen to any coach for a short amount of time – Larry Brown, Flip Saunders or Michael Curry.
In getting Rasheed during that title year, the Pistons got a guy desperate to win games and to win a ring. Wallace saw that opportunity and focused on those tasks. It was a perfect storm for him and the organization. Once accomplished, he returned to his old, selfish, batshit crazy persona.
As I said, letting LB go was the right move because he didn’t want to be there anymore and the players, especially Rasheed, weren’t going to listen to him anymore.
Flip was definitely the wrong coach for that situation because he was too loose. The team should’ve been broken up after the 2006 season. That’s on the front office. Wallace was his old self and the players didn’t respect Flip.
Curry was brought into a very tough situation and bringing in AI made it worse.
July 1st, 2009 at 1:44 pm
shit…this was a good post…i have no smart ass coment for it.
July 1st, 2009 at 1:44 pm
the real reason for the demise of the pistons.
July 1st, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Maggs – Yeah, that’s basically it. But Detroit bought him out (got rid of him) because he didn’t want to be there. He wanted to be in NY.
July 1st, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Chicago was totally willing to overpay for Ben Wallace too.
July 1st, 2009 at 1:47 pm
looks like lebron will be responsible for the death of 2 franchises when he murders the cavs in 2010 by skipping town
July 1st, 2009 at 1:48 pm
spencer – I knew you’d turn this into a Cavs thing.
No doubt that’s part of it. But that team shouldn’t have been there. That was one season too long. But Joe D. kept them togther even after that. Hindsight is 20/20, but Duffy’s on the right track. This team wasn’t right since the 2005-06 offseason.
July 1st, 2009 at 1:48 pm
but they’re about to get ben gordon and CV!!
what i dont get is why they are after gordon. they have a shooter – Rip. gordon aint playing PG.
do they think they can play 3 guards? and prince at 4?
dumars has to have some kind of trade in the works … unless gordon is cool with being a 6th man. how much loot are you going to pay a 6th man? $5 mil a year? $7 mil a year?
July 1st, 2009 at 1:48 pm
and i’ll be responsible for the death of at least one frequent TBL commenter who continues to badger this point to death.
July 1st, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Yup, the Pistons demise was totally due to LeBron dismantling them on the way to his first championship. Wait, what?
July 1st, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Looks like you got our smartass comment. Ha ha.
July 1st, 2009 at 1:49 pm
Problem = Joe D sucks.
July 1st, 2009 at 1:50 pm
was i the only one to notice that during the BET awards that one of the dudes in lebron’s posse had a “i love ny” shirt on?
July 1st, 2009 at 1:51 pm
I’m really starting to agree with this statement.
July 1st, 2009 at 1:52 pm
Bill Laimbeer should take over
July 1st, 2009 at 1:52 pm
@NDub
Right, he wanted to go to NY and if he didn’t get bought out he was going to cry baby through the season and it wouldn’t have worked out well.
This is not on Joe D. People need to realize that Joe D. is a great GM, not good, but great. He fucked up the Darko draft, but every GM was talked into that pick. The real unfortunate situation is that we got the #2 pick. If we would have had the #3 we would have taken Carmello or Wade or Bosch, no question. The GM with the #2 that year would have taken Darko without a doubt. joe D had us in 6 strait final fours, on what fucking planet is that considered bad? If this is Joe D.’s “last hoorah” then I don’t think people have realistic expectations of what an NBA team is capable of.
July 1st, 2009 at 1:56 pm
I highly doubt that. I can understand the argument that Darko was the logical pick for the Pistons, but to say that he was a consensus No. 2 is reaching.
July 1st, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Totally agree. Gordon seems to have been on their radar for a while now. This Charlie Villanueva stuff sort of surprises me.
Detroit has a starting SG (Rip) and SF (Prince). They can’t play the three guard stuff without a legit big (Kwame Brown is not and he might [hopefully] opt out).
I think if they sign Gordon and/or CV, then Rip and/or Prince are traded.
July 1st, 2009 at 1:59 pm
TBL – I agree with the questioning of why they are going after him and are going to pay him big money, but I think their goal is just to get an offensive spark off the bench. Gordon is a 6th man, I saw him play that role for 5 years in Chicago.
If they pay him what the Bulls paid Wallace, it’s a massive mistake. He’s a defensive liability and doesn’t deserve to make starter money.
July 1st, 2009 at 1:59 pm
i don’t know what to think. the pistons have always been known for having a short leash on coaches. Flip has the 2nd longest tenure after Daly. Joe did some good things, joe did some bad things.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:02 pm
Spoken like a true Cavs/Ohio/Hate Everything And Anything In Michigan fan.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:02 pm
It’s Detroit. Everything is going to shit there. Why should basketball be the only industry in Detroit to weather the storm?
July 1st, 2009 at 2:02 pm
Agreed – A lot of GMs were high on Darko, but it was hardly a consensus.
My assessment now is the same as it was then.
“Why not take the guy who single-handedly won the NCAA Tournament?”
July 1st, 2009 at 2:04 pm
“Why not take the guy who single-handedly won the NCAA Tournament?â€
G-Mac was never drafted
July 1st, 2009 at 2:05 pm
re: Darko … you sure, Maggs? I seem to recall (not looking it up) the Pistons thinking, ‘hey, we’re very good, all the pieces are in place, let’s get a future project.’
i dont think it’s a slam dunk that anyone going 2 would have taken a futures guy in Darko over a ready-man Melo, Bosh, Wade, etc. i will concede, though, that it was during the Euro drafting heyday, so maybe someone else makes that mistake.
gordon was a reserve as a rookie, started half of 2 seasons in chicago, then was a starter for 1/3, and then started almost all of last season (and his stats were great)
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gordobe01.html
July 1st, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Joe D traded for Rasheed. Nice move, of course. Led to a title. Since then, he has:
1. Traded his best player (Billups) for dogshit and a pile of dreams (cap space).
2. Immediately signed his 3rd or 4th best player (Rip) to an unfathomable extension, when he could have let him walk and kept a much better player.
3. Signed Kwame Brown to bolster his team’s interior depth.
4. Signed Nazr Mohammed to bolster his team’s interior depth. Blew that up; traded for Walter Hermann. Nice.
5. Turned down a trade for Rondo (Easily the best player in the deal. Easily.) and Ray for Tayshaun (nice player), Stuckey (wildly overrated), and Rip (sucks; worse than Ray).
7. Possibly using the aforementioned pile of dreams (cap space) on Charlie Villanueva and Ben Gordon. Awesome.
Someone tell me one great move he’s made since winning the title? Letting Ben walk, even though he offered a shitload. (just not quite enough of a shitload.)
July 1st, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Looks like Darko was a much better prospect than I remember. Detroit also had supposedly the best draft night at the time.
Detroit Pistons
Round 1: Darko Milicic, F, Serbia-Montenegro (No. 2)
Round 1: Carlos Delfino, G, Italy (No. 25)
Round 2: Andres Gliniadakis, C, Greece (No. 58)
How many teams with the best record in their conference end up with the best big man in the draft and a draft-night steal in Carlos Delfino? By now, you know about Darko, but Delfino will also be important down the road. He’s tough, a strong shooter and plays aggressive defense. He reminds me a lot of Michael Finley. He could play an immediate role on the Pistons if he stays here next year. Gliniadakis was a nice pickup at the end of the draft. He’s a 7-footer who can actually play. The Pistons will leave him in Greece for a few years and bring him over when he’s ready.
Grade: A+
http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/d03/story?id=1573414
July 1st, 2009 at 2:08 pm
yeah joe d has a long way to go before he can destroy a franchise only to get lucky by having a once in 100 years player falls into his lap. seriously if anyone can identify a horrible gm its a cavs fan.
/jim paxson’d
July 1st, 2009 at 2:08 pm
if they take melo, they probably trade prince early on in the offseason for something not too great. never get sheed, and never win a title.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:10 pm
I wonder if Chad Ford would like this one back:
July 1st, 2009 at 2:10 pm
cursed with a zinger. very well done.
is this a serious question?
July 1st, 2009 at 2:12 pm
exactly…which is why you should trust what nick says is accurate.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:13 pm
This bashing of Joe D. is uncalled for IMO. Darko was absolutely the consensus #2 at the time. What is worrisome to me is that people around here are starting to honestly believe that Joe D. is a terrible GM. As if we would do better with, say, the Timberwolves GM (a former sports writer). It is asinine.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:17 pm
Agree with the principle of the article.
In a way, everyone lost when Brown left Motown. He became a joke in NYC. The Pistons slowly fell apart. And Darko (whom LB marginalized) has never recovered.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:17 pm
kinda…but then i just realized that it will probably be a post on this site tommorrow
July 1st, 2009 at 2:20 pm
Someone actually watching the BET awards is definitely worthy of a post
July 1st, 2009 at 2:24 pm
i was talkin about what lebron’s posse was wearing…you would be surprised how many commenters on here watched it.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:25 pm
What is worrisome to me is that people around here are starting to honestly believe that Joe D. is a terrible GM.
The problem is that before 01-02, he seemed to do no wrong. He got Ben, Rip and Sheed for pennies on the dollar. He got Billups to come in when no one wanted him. He drafted Price and convinced McDyess to take the 6th man role. He seemed to know what he was doing.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:28 pm
Joe D traded for Rasheed. Nice move, of course. Led to a title. Since then, he has:
Billups loses his legs in the playoffs and it’s obvious the team wasn’t getting beyond the ECF or maybe even to that point anymore with emergence of Cavs and Magic and resurrection of Boston.
Your opinion on Rip’s abilities. He was the team’s leading scorer in the regular season and upped his production in the playoffs.
Agreed.
Mohammed as a good role player (and starter) for the Spurs in 2006. No reason not to offer him mid-range expection. He just didn’t fit in. Not a terrible signing, but not good.
Mohammed trade freed up nearly $1 million for the 2007-08 season. Plus he was under contract for three more years. Hermann and Brezec were under contract for only that season. (Hermann was resigned for 08-09).
Ray is about out of gas. A trade for Rondo and Allen is a very temporary move. Not what the Pistons want.
We’ll see on this. And their signings could mean a move of Prince and/or Rip.
Signing Antonio McDyess. Trading Darko. Getting 20 mil under the cap, something like three other teams can lay claim to. Firing Flip Saunders.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:34 pm
Ray is out of gas? He played better than Rip last year, and the contracts are both the same length, IIRC.
Getting Rondo would be huge for any team, especially a talent-deprived team like Detroit. Huge mistake.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:34 pm
@NDub
You are my new best friend.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:36 pm
That is your opinion. He had one good run in the playoffs when his team didn’t have their best player (means more shots for Rondo). If he continues to play at that level for the rest of his career then sure not trading for Rondo would be a mistake. Until we know, what you have is pure speculation and opinion.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Flip Saunders face looks like a catcher’s mitt.
And the Michael Curry hiring was just plain pathetic.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Trading for a 23 year old PG is definitely a temporary move, unlike keeping a 29 year old and a 31 year old. Got it.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Ray started. Rip was put on the bench and minutes limited. Rip was forced to team with Allen Iverson. That’s a career killer for anyone. You know this.
As much as I fucking hate Rondo, he’d be a really nice addition to the Pistons. But that trade didn’t make complete sense.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:39 pm
rondo has gotten better and better each year he’s been in the league. he’s trending way upwards.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:40 pm
Seems like we’ve had this discussion before, but that may have been Spencer. I’m willing to bet that you’d give your left nut to be able to be in a position for one of your Ohio/Cleveland GM’s to do anything AFTER a championship. Joe built a championship team from scratch with good signings and trades. They were within a few minutes of back-to-back titles and made it to 6 straight conference championships. All on his watch.
I agree that Flip and Curry were not good for this team, but LB was done here. Nobody remembers the flirting he had with the Cavs during the 2005 playoffs? There was so much talk about that pissing off Davidson and that was the hot rumor as to why they bought him out.
Joe built this team from the bottom up once, lets see if he can do it again.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:41 pm
@spencer
And so is Stuckey…
July 1st, 2009 at 2:42 pm
It’s temporary because it involved Ray Allen, who’s old as balls. He’s a one-year rental at this point and for a team that needs that extra piece. Detroit doesn’t fit that mold right now. I had a feeling I didn’t make myself clear on that. I was cruising too fast through that post.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:44 pm
I still have yet to see anyone give a realistic reason why Lebron would go to New York, other than he’s a Yankees fan. The Knicks will not give him a better chance than Cleveland to win a ring. They’re a joke of a franchise.
And the whole New York exposure argument is ridiculous. Find me one person who doesn’t know who Lebron James is.
Oh, and to keep on topic, Joe D. isn’t the genius GM many think he is.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:44 pm
Great way to put it.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:45 pm
Of course. But the fact that I want the Cavs to win a title is not relevant to this discussion at all.
They’ve gotten progressively worse each year. And when it came time to finally blow it up, he traded the wrong guy. Seems easy enough to me.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:46 pm
Ok. Ray was one of the best offensive players in the entire game last year. Rondo is a top 5 pg when factoring in age and cost. (Also rondo skills has nothing to do with him taking more shots. If he never shoots the ball again in his career he will be better than most pgs, its called Def and Reb). But, did this deal really exist?
July 1st, 2009 at 2:48 pm
This line of thinking is wrong. Ray would a) make the team better and b) be one of teh most valuable trade pieces in the entire league because of both i)production and ii)expiring deal
July 1st, 2009 at 2:48 pm
@ArtestPilot: Yeah, I can’t see LeBron’s legacy getting any more interesting if he was playing in MSG 41 times as opposed to Quicken Loans arena. It’s a wash, really.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:49 pm
it never even got to Joe if it did.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Jim Paxson proved to be a brilliant GM at the end because he traded AMiller to tank the season before LeBron. He also created a ton of space for Ferry to sign whoever he wanted. Ferry then ended up blowing it on Hughes,Marshall, and Jones.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:51 pm
I’ll never understand the divided sentiment on Rondo. The guy is a flat-out stud who’s getting better every year. I fail to see much negative there.
My ultimate concern, if that you’ve fundamentally misapprehended the situation – for you to find him ineffectual seems like more of a facade to me, and less intuitive then not. Dynastic. (couldn’t find a way to work it in)
July 1st, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Looking at how Detroit finished the following years since losing to the Spurs in the finals, I can’t really blame Dumars. They were competitive up until last year.
2006 — Lost conference finals to Miami (eventual champs)
2007 — Lost conference finals to Lebron
2008 — Lost conference finals to a loaded Celtics team
2009 — Swept in the first round.
So it’s not like they weren’t competitive. They were probably one impact player away from becoming an elite team.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:54 pm
well played Cursed
July 1st, 2009 at 2:55 pm
James Joyce.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:56 pm
Real reason for the down turn this douche and this douche and one more
Of course I’m completely bored and the last two were just for fun.
July 1st, 2009 at 3:00 pm
he isnt going to the knicks…he is going to the team where one of his idols/friend is a owner…you may have heard of him…jay-z
July 1st, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Comparing Rondo and Stuckey is ridiculous. Rondo is top 10, possibly top 5 PG, Stucky is bottom 10 in starting PG’s. Yes he’s young and might get better, but today, not even close.
July 1st, 2009 at 3:31 pm
The Pistons traded Billups just to get rid of him for a player who is better than anyone on their roster. Then they tried to center the team around a mediocre young guard while marginalizing this same player who also happens to have been one of the top 5-10 players in the league for most of the past 10-12 years. In other words they tanked the season.
July 1st, 2009 at 3:35 pm
Money, money and money? Sorry, I forgot, multi-gazillionaires NEVER chase bigger dollars (endorsements, in Lebron’s case).