Khalil Greene and Dontrelle Willis: Anxiety Disorders or Just Ineffective?
Baseball, Mental Illness July 7th. 2009, 1:30pm
Shirley Wang of the WSJ suggests that baseball has “significantly shifted†its assessment of psychological issues, moving from an insensitive “gutting it out†approach to a more understanding attitude. Giving Khalil Greene, Joey Votto and Dontrelle Willis as examples, she portrays anxiety as an injury. It’s not an injury, nor should it be considered one.
Social Anxiety Disorder is a general diagnosis, for people who show an inordinate amount of anxiety in social situations. For most, it neither outlines a definitive cause – which you can slowly uncover through thousands of dollars worth of therapy – nor suggests a treatment. More than ten percent of the population “suffers†from it, which suggests it’s not really a “disorder†at all.
Playing Major League Baseball is extremely stressful. Every action is accountable to the individual and tabulated. Public scrutiny is constant. Controlling anxiety is a skill of the profession. You have to “gut it out.€Â It’s similar in pressure to an air traffic controller or a neurosurgeon, most people are not qualified to handle it.
It’s a fair assumption that some baseball players have anxiety troubles. They may feel uncomfortable in social situations or may fret unusually about their future. They are also playing.
Votto was an isolated case, related to his father’s death. Khalil Greene and Dontrelle Willis are on the DL with anxiety disorders. They are on the DL because they have been woefully ineffective and their teams have too much money invested to release them. If they were playing well, they would be playing. Those who muddle through real life with the disorder have no disabled list.
Baseball is not taking a softer stance on social anxiety. Teams merely realized they could use the mental injury excuse rather than feigning a physical one.
118 Responses to “Khalil Greene and Dontrelle Willis: Anxiety Disorders or Just Ineffective?”
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July 7th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
i wish pam ward had an anxiety disorder.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
sure they do, it is called rehab.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
Don’t forget Greinke.
I think teams want to be careful with labeling these injuries, because fans are assholes. Next time Khalil Greene strikes out with the bases loaded, some dick is gonna say “What’s the matter? You didn’t take your pills?” and make the situation even worse.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
greene just got optioned to memphis btw.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
conjecture is a great thing.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
No live blogging the Jackson ceremony?
July 7th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
Khalil Greene looks like he’ll burn down his own house.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
i couldnt help but laugh at that scenario
July 7th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
Those who muddle through real life with the disorder have no disabled list.
And that is why God invented booze.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
Tyduffy is really Intern Bill? I demand another post about how peanut allergies are really a figment of my imagination!
July 7th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
More than ten percent of the population “suffers†from it, which suggests it’s not really a “disorder†at all.
How do you define “disorder” Ty?
July 7th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
rehab for anxiety? how does that work?
July 7th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
yep…definitely going to hell for that one.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
Khalil Greene should marry Mike Miller.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
Duffy, you don’t think that just maybe there is a little bit better of an understanding of what anxiety disorder are? kinda like alcoholism? they used to just think people were crazy and put them in the loony bin. i am sorry, but i find this post incredibly irresponsible.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
that is what all drug rehabs have become. a dual-diagnosis facility, since insurance companies don’t want to pay for crackheads.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
More than ten percent of the population “suffers†from it
And why the sarcastic quotes around suffers? Do people who have experience this condition not suffer? I’d say Greene and Willis seem to be right now.
This sounds like the generals in World War II who refused to recognize shell-shock as a problem.
/Let’s mock people with psychological problems.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Agreed. This is a really ignorant post.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Duffy’s parents are doctors. He knows what’s up.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
I’d guess over 90% of humans “suffer” from the flu in their lifetimes, which suggests it’s not a disorder at all.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
Playing Major League Baseball is extremely stressful
All they do is stand around and look at the sky
/cursed’d
July 7th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
Khalil Greene is fucking crazy. I talked to a Padres writer a few weeks ago who’s been around the guy and talked to people in his old clubhouse. The guy is a fucking loon. As TampaBo said, he looks like he’d burn down his own house.
Willis is ineffective because it’s all in his head, hence the anxiety disorder. Why was it in his head? Maybe he’s soft. Maybe he gets worked up about the easiest stuff.
Joey Votto struggled with his father’s death. That, to me, is legit.
Greinke had a pretty big problem. We all know how deep his shit got.
I think there’s varying degrees of anxiety disorder, which is why there’s a high percentage.
Sparty, I don’t thnk you need to apologize for finding this post incredibly irresponsible. You aren’t the only one and there’s nothing to be sorry about.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
They didn’t suffer early in their careers. I’m guessing that’s what he means. It’s not something you turn on and off.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
There’s a support group for that, it’s called the bar. Everyone meets there around 5.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Amen, KC Resident.
You break your collar bone slamming into the outfield wall trying to make a catch? Hey, you got my sympathies, whether you make the grab or not. You tear your ACL trying to leg out a single? You got my sympathies.
You can’t hit water if you fall out a fucking boat and you can’t handle the fans or media calling you on the carpet for it, then I have zero fucking sympathy for you. Know what you do? You go home to your palatial estate, crawl inside your money bin and swim around in your cash, asshole.
Meanwhile, the rest of us have an overbearing/pain in the ass supervisor or boss who likes to drop hints that people could get laid off while the organization we work for has dropped 95 percent in stock value over the last 15 years, and we’ve just been hit with a pay cut and are now hearing that our employer provider healthcare costs are likely going up next year, and the fucking walls of mundane life are closing in!
You got mental problems, man? Go see a fucking shrink. It’s $400 an hour? Oh wait, you get paid a fuckload of cash a year, so money’s not a goddamn problem!!
Yeah, that’s right, I’m gonna be THAT fan…
/Angry middle-class worker’d
July 7th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
maybe willis and greene arent effective BECAUSE of their anxiety disorders.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
The fact that Duffy hits on like 1/4 of his posts makes me wonder why TBL keeps him around.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
This backlash is gonna give Intern Duffy an anxiety disorder.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
My parents are engineers. I have absolutely no idea what the fuck they do.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
Anxiety is irrational by nature. If there were a simple cause/effect solution to anxiety, it wouldn’t be a problem in the first place. You don’t “solve” anxiety with logic. It doesn’t work that way.
Irresponsible doesn’t begin to cover it. Embarrassing is more like it.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
my dad smokes pot.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
internet fight!!!!
/grabs popcorn
July 7th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
I blame Cursed Cleveland for the reaction to this post. It was more fun to just poke duffy in the ribs for his verbiage. Now that he’s gone to more plain jane prose after CC’s prodding, our only choice is to actually read and dissect the content.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
At least this thread was able to bring about the smartest comment that ever came from mrejr8234. Congrats!
July 7th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
Most of his posts are on baseball or soccer. If you get a hit once every 4 at bats or score a goal once every 4 matches you’re a millionaire.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
@So – Bueno.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
My parents are engineers. I have absolutely no idea what the fuck they do. Taguchi
Line of the day.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
@spence: No I don’t.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
im just a caveman i dont understand big fancy words like verbiage or prose
July 7th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
You are eminently replaceable at your job. I am eminently replaceable at mine. Khahil Greene and (especially) Dontrelle Willis have demonstrated they can do something at a high level that few can do. That is why teams invested far too much money in them and that’s why teams are working to bring them back. They aren’t employees. Their investments. You don’t have to give them sympathy, but they are being coddled for the same reason they’re highly paid. They’ve proven valuable.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
so, the chicken did come after the egg?
i can’t tell if this post is trying to take an actual objective look at the issue, or if the idea behind it was to try to be as ignorant as possible to stir up arguments/debates.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
hef…you’re my dad?
DUDE, WHERE THE FUCK HAVE YOU BEEN? you’re a bad dad, man. remember how you taught me to shave? OH WAIT…YOU WEREN’T THERE.
/runs away crying
July 7th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
thanks?
July 7th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
@wilhelm – I think it was the first idea that was done so poorly it turned into the second idea. I also think it was very mean-spirited it it’s tone and analysis.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
MLB needs to consult with this guy for treatment options. He’s done wonders for kids with ADHD.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
DUDE, WHERE THE FUCK HAVE YOU BEEN? you’re a bad dad, man. remember how you taught me to shave? OH WAIT…YOU WEREN’T THERE.
/runs away crying
I’m pretty sure the children of single mothers don’t often become obsessed with golf.
/stereotyped
July 7th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
now that is possible.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
now that is possible.
Ah, the Micheal Richards defense.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Au contraire, Taguchi, absence of a fatherly influence often leads to a phallic obsession.
Phallic obsession = Callaway drivers with thick shafts.
/nttawwt
July 7th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
this post should just be titled “I have never had an anxiety disorder so they arent really real.”
July 7th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
Everyone is downright furious. Jailbreak!
July 7th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
In just a little hunting around, you can find out that social anxiety disorders can be treated by treating the symptoms, and that a regular doctor can prescribe the medications. You don’t actually have to uncover through thousands of dollars worth of therapy.
Do a little research, or make your next post a scathing review of steroid eyedrops in fat dominicans. I’m calling bad form on Duffy.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
callaway makes garbage.
/except for their drivers, fairway woods, forged irons, forged wedges and balls
//but their hybrids? made of teh suck i say!
July 7th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
+100
July 7th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Distant cousin from “I don’t have allergies so they’re not really real”
July 7th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Social Anxiety Disorder is a catch-all definition. It’s like “depression.” They can see the manifestation of the problem, but everyone is different.
There’s no definitive cause. There’s no definitive treatment. It’s not an injury. It is a part of your nature.
Disorder implies that there’s something wrong with you. More than ten percent of the population having it implies that it’s part of the normal range of human behavior.
These guys very well may have something wrong with them, but “social anxiety disorder” does not define it. There are probably many players who experience symptoms that would lead to that diagnosis. We all do from time to time. The reason these guys are considered troubled is because they have been ineffective.
There are many people who don’t react well to stress and have troubles with anxiety. It is unfortunate, but if they have a serious issue, professional athlete is probably not the right occupation for them. I don’t see this as a problem baseball needs to be proactive about.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
not that allergies don’t exist, because i am one who has a lot of them, but you would be amazed by how many seasonal allergies develop by the food we eat.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Fibromyalgia sufferers are the BIGGEST fakers. Even DOCTORS can’t find anything wrong with them! Slackers, I say!!!!!
July 7th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
Social Anxiety Disorder is a catch-all definition.
So is cancer. Suffering from pancreatic cancer, and suffering from skin cancer are both cancer. You were just being a dick, now you’re being a defensive dick.
If somebody has social anxiety disorder, or just an anxiety disorder, there are more questions to ask. You don’t just stop there. Treatments are available, and can be prescribed without a psychoanalysis or thousands and thousands of dollars.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
Who thought tyduffy would turn this into semantics?
/raises hand
July 7th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
What’s the big deal? Just take some heavy prescriptions to fix the issue, even if it causes more (or worse) conditions than the original problem. You can always just get other pills to counteract the unwanted side effects.
/Modern Medicine’d
July 7th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
Ty, great post!
/scanned for big words and didn’t find them
Just kidding. wait, no I’m not
July 7th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
not that allergies don’t exist, because i am one who has a lot of them, but you would be amazed by how many seasonal allergies develop by the food we eat.
I should quit eating pollen?
July 7th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
disorder /dis·or·der/ (dis-or´der) a derangement or abnormality of function; a morbid physical or mental state.
dis·or·der (ds-ôrdr)
n.
A disturbance or derangement that affects the function of mind or body.
v.
To disturb the normal physical or mental health of; disturb or derange.
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/disorder
you are wholly and incredibly wrong on this issue. please stick to sports, you know nothing about psychology and are only showing your ignorance by pushing the issue.
if anyone wants to see something interesting, try watching “obsessed” on A&E.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
Yeah, but he’s right on the definition thing. Too many people label themselved or get labeled with a disorder when really they just like to have clean hands or get stressed cause they suck at what they do..
July 7th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
duffy the “disorder” may be common but the way they deal with the anxiety isnt. it may effect how they play as opposed to the player who just blocks it out they may not be able to…therefore they need treatment to deal with the anxiety of having to be able to live up to their contract, play in front of 35,000 people, have every one of their fuckups dissected and etc….for a person who has never had to deal with those expectations isnt it a little irresponsible to just say they are on the dl with a imaginary illness?
July 7th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
Cancer is not a catch-all definition. Cancer is cancer. Cancer is an abnormal cell that divides uncontrollably.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
FALSE. many people are commonly misdiagnosed by just trying to identify a symptom or two.
again, there is a chance that their ineffectiveness has to do with them suffering disorder itself. if they can fix that, maybe they can return to their old form, like Greinke who was already mentioned.
keep digging a hole on this one.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
/Modern Medicine’d
“how does a drug dealer make his money? On the comeback.”
July 7th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
has to do with how the food is being grown. many people have noticed that their allergies improved when they changed to organic.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
No, Taguchi, I would say that they are replaceable at their jobs. They’re a highly skilled, specialized workforce in which they get to negotiate a particular wage with their employer. They are replaceable, their employers just don’t want to get hit financially.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
Once you watch Food Incorporated you’ll complete your transformation into my Whole Foods loving vegetarian girlfriend.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Dontrelle Willis was rookie of the year and second in the CY voting in 2005. That is not replaceable.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
I find pastrami to be the most sensual of the salted cured meats.
/Hyena’d
July 7th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
blame the union for that. guaranteed contract BS. the NFL grinds ‘em up, spits ‘em out and treats ‘em accordingly.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
I eat a lot of organic, not completely. i eat more based on my blood type. which means a shit load of protein.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
This post has failed to the point it should be brought before The Big Lead High Court of Post Removal. The ignorance displayed in attempting to equate feeling nervous for one’s major league debut AB or in game seven of the world series (”Controlling anxiety is a skill of the profession.”) and the potentially crippling effects of an anxiety disorder is absurd.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
Maybe if we get in an argument about labor issues Duffy can slink away into the shadows to lick his wounds and prepare to fight another day.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
This is true, although Snausages are a close second to pastrami.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
I flew too close to the sun on wings of pastrami
July 7th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
Word. The simplest of business models, repeat customers that need you.
“Hippies.They’re everywhere. They wanna save the earth, but all they do is smoke pot and smell bad.”
July 7th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
..washed down with a Litre of cola.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
I eat a lot of organic, not completely. i eat more based on my blood type. which means a shit load of protein.
i hate that eat right for your blood type. they say no pork chops for me. bastards.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
eat right by bloodtype? never heard of that
July 7th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
p.s. don’t eat organic. eat local. that’s the best thing you can do for yourself and the world.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
ha. you obviously haven’t followed me enough in here or on my own blog. farthest thing from being a hippy.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
eat right by bloodtype? never heard of that
women love that stuff. women, and sparty. just google it. there’s a well written book.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
I think the key to this is local, not organic. Local Raw honey is the absolute best medicine for allergies. Basically by eating local foods (nothing more local then growing a garden in your yard btw) you are allow your body to build an immunity to the pollen that is in your air.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
This post is hysterical.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
just happy that i am O+.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
/fix’d
//thats a bannin”d
July 7th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
ass
July 7th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
MLB needs to hire Dr. Leo Spaceman
July 7th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
is it bad i don’t remember my own blood type?
July 7th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
/opens coffin
awful post.
/closes coffin. get off my lawn.
July 7th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
If my allergy medicine has side effects that include itchy eyes, runny nose, and scratchy throat, does that mean I got ripped off?
July 7th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
Is it possible that Duffy is correct in the whole Social Anxiety Disorder is a non-descript catch-all, but everyone else is right that these guys probably have soemthing deeper wrong with them? I mean, its one thing to have to tell the world that you have a bad knee, but there aren’t too many people that have to announce that they are dealing with daddy issues. Perhaps the generic terminology is a fair way of giving atheletes a tiny bit of the privacy everyone else enjoys?
July 7th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
Knowing people that suffer from social anxiety disorder, this post is crap. It pissed me off so much that I won’t leave a rational comment.
Worst post in TBL history.
Including the Bernard Berrian one.
July 7th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
Awesome. Good job all around, people.
/standing ovation
July 7th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Haven’t been moved to comment here in a long time. I think duffy writes some interesting stuff, but this post is inexcusable. Uninformed and inflammatory. TBL, you guys are better than this.
July 7th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
I’m allergic to honey.
But seriously, you’re dead-on with local foods being the least likely to cause problems… same air, water, and soil you interact with daily.
July 7th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
maxwell: if social anxiety disorder were a non descript catch all, like say, flu like symptoms, i’d agree. but it’s a real condition, that’s what everyone has a problem with, and treating it like a lame “flu like symptoms/exhaustion (hung over like a motherfucker) is just ignorant.
July 7th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
Wilhelm – Gotcha. Not my area of expertise, but I thought maybe people were just talking past each other a bit. Apparently not.
July 7th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
i see what you’re saying though, everyone does deserve some medical privacy in this world, with the exception of public officials.
July 7th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
Wow.
Duffy stick to sports, that’s what you’re here to do.
This post is the worst I have ever seen on this site.
It is offensive, ignorant, and shows you to be a total fucking idiot. I have family members that suffer from this. It is real, and it can be debilitating at times.
Get off your high horse, and stop the preachy, pretend to know it all asshole attitude.
July 7th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
So, how do you really feel about it, deep down?
July 7th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
I also do not comment very often, but this post is in unbelievable bad taste and worse yet, illinformed. I prefer blogs much, much more over mainstream mediums, but you have to admit, this would NEVER have been allowed to be posted on any site with a halfway-competent editor.
July 7th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
has to do with how the food is being grown. many people have noticed that their allergies improved when they changed to organic.
Once you watch Food Incorporated you’ll complete your transformation into my Whole Foods loving vegetarian girlfriend.
Oh my God you’re dating my girlfriend. Or I’m dating yours. OR they are the SAME girl!
July 7th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
July 7th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
@mrejr8234
does that make me the most interesting man in the world?
July 7th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
I also do not comment very often, but when i do….i comment about dos equis
/stay thirsty, my friends
July 7th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
Big Papi had an anxiety attack when Manny left. His skills have deminished
July 7th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
Anxiety over his PED supplier leaving town
July 7th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Different Greene. Tyler, not Khalil.
As someone who has suffered from panic attacks(I still have trouble leaving my apartment on some days), I agree 100%.
Might help if a little more research had been done before knee-jerking this post.
July 7th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
More than thirty percent of the population “suffers†from cancer, which suggests it’s not really a “disorder†at all.
July 7th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
As someone who has suffered from panic attacks(I still have trouble leaving my apartment on some days), I agree 100%.
ever read “Baby Steps” by Dr. Leo Marvin? It worked wonders for me
/Bob Wiley
//being sarcastic, trust me. I COMPLETELY disagree w/ this post, as my family has had issues w/ this
July 7th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
@jpq- it’s all cool. You made me laugh.
July 7th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
duffy,
wow. ignorant and off-base. Just because a disease has a broad diagnosis axis doesn’t make it less of a condition.
Got to be careful about this kind of reasoning. If you live in the south-east where everything grows happily, then yeah, thats generally true. However, if you’re eating water hungry crops grown locally in southern california (e.g. avocadoes, strawberries) then you are greatly exacerbating ecological degradation. Also try selling this rule to the people of sasketchewan or the dakota’s where basically nothing grows.
Finally, if you live within 100 miles of a port, its almost guarenteed to be cheaper and more ecologically sound to eat produce that has been shipped by sea from south america. Most long range freighters are so efficient that anything more than 100 miles travel in the back of a truck is much worse for the environment. Even worse, in the case of thing’s like apples, the carbon cost of refigerating local apples for 6-8 months is equivalent to blowing a load on mother nature’s face.