“Money and fame have turned professional sports into the movie industry”
NBA, Rehab August 26th. 2009, 9:15am
Much has been written (see here, here, and here) about Michael Beasley’s breakdown over the weekend and subsequent trip to rehab – the word today is that this was a ‘planned visit‘ for last year’s transgression at the rookie transition program – but this thought is one that might be seriously worth exploring:
The games are overrun with stage parents, manipulative agents, conniving coaches and exploitive owners. Kids are in over their heads, particularly kids from one- or no-parent families. And now there’s no longer a support-maturation process. There’s no safety net. God, I hate to sound old, but America needs to reinstitute the military draft. Eighteen-year-olds used to spend two to four years in a disciplined, supportive environment before being given the freedom to ruin their lives.
We’ve briefly visited this topic before, and though we can’t remember the exact post in which it was discussed, there seemed to be consensus: Parents are the key to kids getting on the right track early, but increasingly (especially for young athletes), that sort of guidance seems to be lacking. There’s no data to back this up, it is a purely subjective observation. A military draft will obviously never happen, but what if parents had the opportunity to put their potentially-elite athletes in a military school that catered to sports as well as discipline – and was kept at a safe distance (read: underground) from the flesh peddlers of AAU basketball and the nearly-as-seedy college basketball coaches? Would that do the trick?
As for Beasley, the more we look back on stories and quotes about him prior to the draft, his current struggles off-the-court shouldn’t come as a surprise. Remember how he was carrying four cell phones during March madness, prompting one writer to opine: “Everybody wants a piece of Michael Beasley.” He attended six high schools (booted from one for the ‘ol dead-rat-in-the-teacher’s-desk trick), and then when it came time to pick a college, he made it easy – he was a package deal with friend/coach Dalonte Hill.
(Charlotte was their first choice because the 49ers were willing to hire Hill; but then Bob Huggins hired him away to Kansas State to secure Beasley. When Huggins left after one season for WVU, Kansas State foolishly upped his pay to an unheard-of $420,000 ostensibly because he would be able to pull future players of Beasley’s caliber to the program. How Hill-Beasley wasn’t one of the 10 best package deals of all time, we’ll never know.)
We just hope that a football player who seems to be on the Beasley track – Tennessee signee Bryce Brown – can avoid the same problems.
Early fame, pressure can crush young athletes like Beasley (KC Star)
168 Responses to ““Money and fame have turned professional sports into the movie industry””
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August 26th, 2009 at 9:18 am
How Hill-Beasley wasn’t one of the 10 best package deals of all time, we’ll never know.)
Because Beasley stayed only one year and all KSU had to show for it was one tourney win.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:22 am
planned visit? cmon now
August 26th, 2009 at 9:22 am
Am I the only one that is having trouble following/understanding the opening paragraph of this post?
August 26th, 2009 at 9:23 am
Korleone Young agrees that a military academy would solve all of these problems.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:25 am
God, I hate to sound old, but America needs to reinstitute the military draft.
400 pound 50 year old guys always say this, because they’re in no danger of actually getting drafted.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:26 am
planned visit? cmon now
it’s the “in” thing to do
August 26th, 2009 at 9:27 am
clown, you know that Hargrave is a college-hoops 1st ‘academy’
do they were nike or adidas?
August 26th, 2009 at 9:28 am
at what age do the kids go to military school? by the time they have reached high school, they are already exposed to all of the vice. any earlier and the kid is too young to define as potentially elite (in most cases)
August 26th, 2009 at 9:28 am
Vanilla Sky went to Hargrave
August 26th, 2009 at 9:29 am
The Draft worked out well for Elvis.
Get the fuck outta here’d
August 26th, 2009 at 9:32 am
they cood wear either.
/sportsgal’d
August 26th, 2009 at 9:32 am
I agree with the first sentence whole heartedly, and I don’t think it’s subjective at all. Gladwell touches on this in Outliers.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:33 am
Eighteen-year-olds used to spend two to four years in a Korean winter or a Vietnamese jungle before being given the freedom to ruin their lives.
/fixed
August 26th, 2009 at 9:33 am
wait…when did the US last do this? someone please refresh me.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:35 am
dammit…meant to include the previous sentence too.
again, when did the US last do this? someone please refresh me.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:36 am
Doesn KSU stink now, though? They got exposure, but no one else that’s bi has chosen there I believe.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:36 am
D’AlCapone AlPacino Morris, 20, who is wanted in a June 2nd slaying, agrees.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:37 am
Or maybe these worthless parents can get off their asses and do, you know, a little parenting.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:37 am
younglefty – great book. read it earlier this summer and am halfway through it again.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:37 am
see, it’s a two way sword.
sure you have the tragic stories dealing with the stuff, but then you have cases like lebron, who had all of that going on while he was in HS and he turned out OK.
but the biggest example of it working out is tiger woods. when tiger was 16, his father, in order to help pay for all the travel between florida and cali and elsewhere for amateur events, was rumored to have struck a deal with titleist…tiger would sign with titleist the minute he turned pro (he did), and in exchange, titleist would help out financially, off the record of course.
yes, this kind of shady shit can be awful, but it doesn’t have to be. the bottom line is that for these kids, it’s still a level field and the best and toughest will always make it through.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:38 am
The draft made everything better the second time around, if i recall…
August 26th, 2009 at 9:38 am
that shouldve said “two way street” or “double edged sword.”
i need coffee.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:39 am
+1
August 26th, 2009 at 9:40 am
How about parents stop treating their kids as gravy trains and do what’s best for the kid, instead of pumping out kids trying to make it big with the “hollywood Kids”? Fucking ninnies. The parents are too strung out on pot, am I right Spence?
Sincerely,
…Do I even need to put his name here?
August 26th, 2009 at 9:41 am
A two way sword? Hat tip, Spencer. That was kind of funny for this early in the morning.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:44 am
Needs more East Coast Bias and southern redneck bojack homers.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:46 am
A two way sword?
I saw that in a lesbian video once. Looked like a mutual epileptic seizure going on
/NTTAWWT
August 26th, 2009 at 9:47 am
are you sure there is nothing to back this up? i have to imagine there have been plenty of studies conducted. time to search google.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:47 am
You owe me a fresh cup of coffee and a new monitor.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:47 am
i love watching sports and playing sports, but i don’t want my kids to ever go through the process of being a professional athlete these days.
it’s all about the parenting, not some easy way out, government run finishing school called the draft. a kid with a good head on their shoulder won’t have to go to the Dave Chapelle freak out tent when it becomes too much to handle.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:48 am
AAU is the best thing to happen to basketball. Like any good thing it can be abused. But as I’ve said before, if you don’t have AAU, you have players like LeBron playing in the post in high school.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:48 am
@YoungLefty – I was gonna throw an RNC Darth Chaney reference in, but I just got out of work and am too lazy to find a way to fit it into the paragraph.
I guess Paolo’s just the better man. Did you see he commented again on the old posts around 3 am this morning?
August 26th, 2009 at 9:49 am
What about his HGH addiction?
August 26th, 2009 at 9:52 am
if lebron was really on HGH, he’d have a big, muscley gut which he doesn’t have. this is science.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:54 am
Yeah he does that quite a bit. It reminds me of homeless people you see outside the Metro that yell at themselves.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:55 am
Exactly. Parents who bitch about video games, movies or music causing their kids to become idiots need to shut the hell up and do their job.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:55 am
are you sure there is nothing to back this up? i have to imagine there have been plenty of studies conducted. time to search google.
http://www.childrensjustice.org/fatherlessness2.htm
/if this is from a white supremicist or NAMBLA site, f-you
//covering myself early
August 26th, 2009 at 9:57 am
That dude was insane yesterday. I mean he is usually easily ticked off, but yesterday it was a new level.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:58 am
I noticed that TBL deleted some comments from the overnight? I don’t really know which ones, just that the number went down.
/Don’t ban me
August 26th, 2009 at 9:59 am
forgot to add this also
August 26th, 2009 at 10:00 am
This would only be accurate if you believe that children are influenced exclusively by their parents and their environment plays no role. That would not be accurate.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:01 am
/if this is from a white supremicist or NAMBLA site, f-you
//covering myself early
That site seemed to be one that blamed women for alienating dads. It was certainly bizarre source material.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:04 am
Haven’t psychologists and scientists argued forever on what influences you the most: Genes, parenting or environment?
It is here, on TBL’s Michael Beasley post, where we will settle this once and for all.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:08 am
Of course the environment plays a role, but it is the parents’ job to make sure that they have more say than the environment. Being a parent is hard as fuck for this exact reason.
This is the same dude who rocked out a racist-as-hell site as evidence, so I think that’s how he rolls.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:10 am
No, what he’s saying is 100% accurate — parents need to parent, regardless of environment. And the shittier the environment, the harder they need to parent.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:10 am
GOTG: you are the biggest prick on this website
August 26th, 2009 at 10:13 am
COMMENTATOR FIGHT!
August 26th, 2009 at 10:13 am
The chapter in Outliers on this subject discusses exactly this. Middle to upper class parents have more tendency to take an active role in their child’s development, while below middle class parents have a tendency to let the child discover their talents and interests on their own. It is a combination of environment and parental involvement.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:18 am
GOTG: you are the biggest prick on this website‘
give me a little credit here.
No, what he’s saying is 100% accurate — parents need to parent, regardless of environment. And the shittier the environment, the harder they need to parent.
I don’t disagree with that message at all. But I’d say the shittier the environment and circumstances, the harder is also becomes to raise kids right. And I don’t want to fight, Mike. I’m just saying.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:18 am
so what’s thought to be the best course of action? If you’re more involved in their child’s development, instead of letting the child figure out his/her talents and interests, could you actually influence the kid to the point of over-parenting, pushing one particualr skill too much? I’m pretty interested in this.
/damn it,everytime I read a comment of mine in my head it sounds smarmy even when I’m not trying to be.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:21 am
I don’t disagree with you. What I’m saying is a parent could have done everything right and the kid can still go out there and mess up. Good parenting increases the odds of keeping kids out of trouble, it doesn’t eliminate it.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:21 am
no, that’d be mrejr. which isn’t a bad thing, necessarily.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:24 am
Todd Marinovich’s father sees nothing wrong with this.
/my obvious answer is “Yes”
August 26th, 2009 at 10:25 am
Come on dude. You linked to some white supremacist web site as evidence and you don’t think you’re going to get shit for it? That’s weak.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:26 am
This could surprise jpq but I’m all for every American having some kind of mandatory military service
August 26th, 2009 at 10:27 am
shatner: it goes both ways. I have seen parents who have literally DRAGGED their kid to sports/dance class/instrument class/whatever, just because they want the kid to do all this crap that either they did as a child or what they think they should be doing, no matter what the kid wants.
On the other hand, I have seen kids that play with Gameboys (or the 2009 equivalent) for 8 hrs/day while sitting in fron tof a TV.
Over the ensuing years, I have seen the loafs turn into great kids and students, and the super involved kids turn into obnoxious slackers, and vise versa.
Long and short of it? It’s a crap shoot, but you CAN have an effect on a kid, to a point.
I just refreshed before sending, and Darrell pretty much hits it on the head
August 26th, 2009 at 10:27 am
This is why being a parent is so difficult. The line between over bearing and just right is pretty thin.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:29 am
This is a pet peeve of mine. you have a game console at home, when you go out, you should not be playing a friggin gameboy.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:29 am
just give me an american flag headband and an m249 for each hand and let me rambo those krauts.
/i can say that because im german
//that’s OUR word
August 26th, 2009 at 10:29 am
Gladwell takes a look at a middle class family that shuttles their kids from little league to music lessons to scouts to you name it, and takes an active role in nurturing the kids interest and development in each, and a lower class family that lets their child take piano lessons, but the kid had to ask to be signed up, and get there and back on their own, with no reinforcement at home whatsoever. You certainly don’t want to overinfluence your child, but getting them involved in different groups/clubs/teams and then nurturing and reinforcing their natural talents and abilities would seem to be the way to go.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:30 am
I remember the good kids who went to Catholic School their first 8 years in school who came to the public high school and went buckwild. There are the good kids who once they left behind the (over) protective hedges of their parents and went to college and figuratively drowned in the new freedom. Parenting isn’t just about discipline, it’s about guidance. Sometimes the kid has to touch the stove in order to learn that he shouldn’t touch the stove. A lot of these “good” parents (all races) raise their children as possessions instead of future adults and are scared to allow their kids to get hurt. A good parent is one who finds a balance between the discipline and the guidance.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:31 am
Good parenting increases the odds of keeping kids out of trouble, it doesn’t eliminate it.
My brother is a fine example of this.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:32 am
Come on dude. You linked to some white supremacist web site as evidence and you don’t think you’re going to get shit for it? That’s weak.
what’s weak is this is the 3rd post I’ve seen that you have brought it up (one yesterday also), and you’re the only one who ever has. I explained it was a direct link to a page, apologized when someone pointed it out and even said it again today in #37 above. Let it go. That’s all.
I love how some of you guys think I’m sitting in some Nazi uniform or sheet typing this shit. You have no idea how wrong you guys are.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:32 am
If you move the valuable kid the the sleaze would move with him.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:33 am
jpq…im beginning to think you don’t like sergio because you’re a white supremetist.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:33 am
Reading these comments is starting to freak me out a little.
/just found out last week that my wife is pregnant with our first
August 26th, 2009 at 10:34 am
I say I’m for it, but if it came down to it I know I would not be thrilled. But I do think that it would be great for the country as a whole because we would be a much more disciplined group.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:36 am
good parenting directly influences the environment.
problem. solved.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:37 am
I thought you were eye-talian?
August 26th, 2009 at 10:37 am
Ironic that in the ’shittier evironment’ parents probably need to work harder with non parenting (double jobs, helping neigbors, etc) items which stress the ability to ‘parent harder’
August 26th, 2009 at 10:37 am
But bluetooth, Ipods, and Blackberries are totally okay.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:38 am
No, he just hates chokers.
Congrats and good luck.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:38 am
they all need to go to church.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:39 am
congrats St Bear
August 26th, 2009 at 10:39 am
younglefty…im half italian and half german. i claim whichever one’s more convenient but am more proud to be a wop.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:40 am
Kumbaya people, kumbaya. I think football needs to start, people are on edge. I can taste that shit and its starting to drive me crazy, I’m like a fucking junky needing a fix.
Manual labor for your child is the best thing, put your kids to work digging ditches and shoveling shit, that will straighten them out.
/farm boy’d
August 26th, 2009 at 10:41 am
No f-n way.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:41 am
i am talking about when they get together with other kids. they will be outside playing the damn things. run around…play tag…hide and go seek…capture the flag.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:42 am
/just found out last week that my wife is pregnant with our first
it’s too bad you can’t bank sleep. Good luck dude.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:44 am
I’m in agreement with you but I have friends who do the same thing with their Iphones, and it annoys me greatly.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:44 am
congrats St Bear
Thanks everybody. I’m warning you ahead of time that another Boston sports fan will be brought into this world.
Prepare accordingly.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:44 am
I bet you’re sitting there in a brown shirt.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:45 am
run around…play tag…hide and go seek…capture the flag
What no flashlight tag?
August 26th, 2009 at 10:47 am
i was going to make a tasteless joke but decided against it…congrats dude.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:47 am
Not solved, but it helps for sure. The environment can still have a huge influence (see Trading Places with Eddie Murphy for more evidence).
I hope you’re joking.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:48 am
there’s no reason to have mandatory military service in America. it’s a volunteer army and if we ever get to the point of having to draft/conscript citizens to service, we’re in deep shit, world war 3 type stuff anyway.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:49 am
Congrats. St.Bear Make sure its a boy.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:50 am
agree. don’t understand the need to update facebook everywhere we go.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:51 am
May I suggest Pastafarianism?
August 26th, 2009 at 10:52 am
I never got into flashlight tag. I was more of a red devil fan myself. I remember one time we were playing and I saw a kid running from another kid and he closelined himself on a branch, knocking him out cold. It was awesome.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:55 am
May I suggest Pastafarianism?
I prefer my deities to make everything, know everything, see everything, be super vengeful, but at the same time, sit back and let you fuck up constantly while chipping in 10% of your pre-tax earnings. Also, i want to be able to worship my guy, after i’m dead, for fucking ever.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:55 am
That’s awesome.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:56 am
problem. solved
This sounds dangerously close to “good parents aren’t poor/don’t live in a shity neighborhood” which I would hope, especially in these economic times, people realize is not the case.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:56 am
love how some of you guys think I’m sitting in some Nazi uniform or sheet typing this shit.
I bet you’re sitting there in a brown shirt.
wrong-o
congrats St. Bear. We need all the Sox fans we can get here
August 26th, 2009 at 10:57 am
There goes my mental picture of you, jpq.
And good luck St. Bear. I have 21 year old and 17 year old sons. I’m barely sane at this point.
Beware the 3:30am phone call, stating, “Dad, just in case you wondered where I am, I’m in jail. Can you come get me later?”
Priceless.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:58 am
Of course I also think that if you’re really poor maybe a kid isn’t the best idea. Do I contradict myself? Very well, I contradict myself.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:58 am
nope.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:58 am
If we’re talking about choosing a religion, may I suggest This?
August 26th, 2009 at 11:00 am
You know what you should choose as your religion? This one.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:01 am
damn clown beat me to it. By like an hour
August 26th, 2009 at 11:03 am
jpq…thanks for the NSFW tag. i always love it when i see “LNC Blocked: Pornography” flash on my screen.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:04 am
/Fixed for personal truth.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:04 am
Beware the 3:30am phone call, stating, “Dad, just in case you wondered where I am, I’m in jail. Can you come get me later?”
GYD: Two weeks ago, I got a call from Highway Patrol to tell me my 18 year old son totaled my car, and that he’s in an ambulance and going to ER that’s 100 miles away. Good times.
/good luck when you have teenagers!!
August 26th, 2009 at 11:04 am
not quite. all I’m saying is good parenting influences how kids make decisions about the environment in which they surround themselves.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:06 am
No shit. Except, you know, it wasn’t blocked on my computer, so I actually had to see the damn thing. Fucking fuck man.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:07 am
I know a lot of people who are hard core churhies (or were through high school) who are total trash. Pretty sure religion is not a cure-all, but this is a discussion for another time and place.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:07 am
spencer: SORRY! It wasn’t even “good porn”, (just a douchebag wearing goggles & lingerie, so I didn’t think aboout filters) so I’m REALLY SORRY
August 26th, 2009 at 11:08 am
bingo. and of course there are exceptions. plenty of kids that live in nice areas who have attentive parents that fuck up (points at self). just like there are kids who live i single parent homes in shittier surroundings, but come out the other side just fine.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:09 am
jpq, I knew I liked you for a reason. Teenagers are God’s great challenge to parents.
I hope your son is OK. Your phone call was a hell of a lot scarier than the jail call. At least my kid was locked up safely and receiving a delicious breakfast courtesy of the county taxpayers.
One good thing: I now know a pretty good bail bondsman.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:11 am
I always assumed that guys sitting in a nazi uniform or sheet considered douchebag’s wearing goggls and lingerie to be good porn.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:11 am
jpq…i guess i probably should’ve checked the URL first. but fuck you anwyays…you jinxed my dude sergio last weekend.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:12 am
I had the pleasure of sitting in a cell with a speed addict who wanted to talk to me all night. It would be hilarious if it happened to anyone other than me.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:13 am
Are you sure he was good or was he just the first one you tried? I’ve found this is the sort of service that it is best to shop around on.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:13 am
I sort of disagree. Of course the kid could mess up, but if they have good parents the kid won’t be a mess up. Barring a freak accident or uncontrollable medical condition, think lukemia not ADD, the child’s outcome is directly correlated to the level of parenting. The kid’s behavior is a reflection of the level of parenting and we, as parents, should accept the responsibility as such.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:13 am
GYD: once you have teenagers, parents age in dog years.
yeah, he’s ok, thanks. whiplash, broken bone in tailbone, bruises. Didn’t move off the couch for almost 10 days. Thank God he wore his seatbelt. Car rolled 5 times. I told him that now he knows how I feel every day when I get out of bed-lol
August 26th, 2009 at 11:14 am
I had a similar experience, except it was a crackhead that chose to lay down under the bench in the holding cell, and yell “AHH!” every 30 seconds or so.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:16 am
Simply not true. People belong to themselves. You can prepare kids in every way possible and they can still turn out fucked up.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:17 am
Taguchi: don’t forget to look in the mirror!!
/last night’d
August 26th, 2009 at 11:17 am
agree that discussion isn’t for here, there is more to what i said. but the way you just put it throws out your reasoning behind the environment as the influence.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:18 am
You guys sure have come up with elaborate holding cell stories to block out the rape.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:19 am
Awesome. The dude with me was telling me how he was running from the cops and he threw a pound of speed out of his pockets and he was surprised the cops saw it. Now I have no idea what a pound of speed looks like, but I assume it would be something that is easily seen being thrown by a dude 15 yards in front of you.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:21 am
This is a cynical and cowardly way to look at parenting.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:23 am
very ouch.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:24 am
He was the third one I called at 4am, and gave me the most complete info, which later proved to be accurate. Plus, he brought the cops at the jail their McD’s breakfast order, so I think he was OK.
And jpq, glad to hear the kid will heal.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:26 am
This is a cynical and cowardly way to look at parenting.
Believing that nothing can go wrong if you just do things “right” is an unrealistic view of both people and life.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:26 am
Great. Now I remember it and the therapy bills are going to be enormous.
Well, if you knew the kids you would know that the parents thought the church would do the work for them…which it didn’t.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:28 am
i don’t think he is being cynical or cowardly at all. i know parents who raised their kids with the same teaching and morals, one kid follows suit, the next doesn’t, and the ones after them do as well. however, that shouldn’t intimidate a parent from doing their very best to do so. you definitely increase a child’s chances of succeeding in life.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:28 am
True.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:29 am
which is why is deeper than just going to church.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:30 am
Straw man. Nobody in the entire world believes this. Of course there are exceptions.
The point, which should be obvious, is that a kid whose parents are actively involved in their life will turn out, generally, to be a more productive member of society than a kid with deadbeat parents.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:30 am
then church/religion wasn’t the problem. again, it goes back to the parents’ involvement.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:31 am
Who was disagreeing with this?
August 26th, 2009 at 11:31 am
Nobody said nothing can go wrong. I’m talking parental responsibility. It’s about doing things period. Nobody is their “own person” straight from the womb. If you do your job as a parent it will show and if you don’t it will show. The results speak for themselves.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:32 am
This is how I imagine Jpq looks.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:33 am
Exactly right.
That’s my point. Church can be great (or so I’ve heard), but you need to have good parents/guardians because that is what will influence children more than anything else.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:34 am
Did you read this comment Mike? Because Beard seems to be saying that what you say no one beleives is exactly what he believes, which was what I was contradicting?
August 26th, 2009 at 11:36 am
so you agree that environment in general is a crock?
August 26th, 2009 at 11:37 am
I see.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:37 am
This is how I imagine Tampa thinks and looks
August 26th, 2009 at 11:38 am
Again, you’re talking in absolutes about something that is not absolute. In general terms you are correct, but there are also a great deal of exceptions. Some junkies were raised wonderfully and some CEO’s parents were awful.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:41 am
that ceo is an alcoholic snorting blow.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:43 am
Congrats St Bear, hope your first is a boy. There is no better education to ones self then seeing a reflection of yourself when you look into your sons eyes. It really changed me for the better.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:45 am
No. The parents are the biggest influence, but that could be 55% of the influence which still leaves a ton of influence out there.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:45 am
Nobody can deny the existence of exceptions, but the exceptions would be immaterial to the sample. Not the norm, not regular, probably barely remote. My point is the current attitude among too many parents is “my kid is the exception”, “I did everything I could.” If you start your parenting life with the attitude that “People belong to themselves. You can prepare kids in every way possible and they can still turn out fucked up.” you’re not going to be a good parent.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:47 am
Pretty awesome discussion (and boy coop was right, football needs to start ASAP). My take is it’s 50% nature and 50% nurture.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:48 am
but if the parents influence is the biggest, it means it prepares them to deal better with things of the environment they are in. the environment generally influences a child who has no guidance within the home. again, there are exceptions.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:50 am
I think the problem in your thinking is you’re overemphasizing the personal responsibility of the parent and underemphasizing the personal responsibility of the child. And sometimes those parents are making excuses, and other times they really did everything they could.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:51 am
That avatar freaks me out Taguchi.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:52 am
At what point/age does the child have responsibility? Who has responsibility up to that point? Does the parent’s responsibility end exactly at that point or is it more gradual?
August 26th, 2009 at 11:53 am
I know…I’ve got the college football itch like a mother. A week from tomorrow we kick off with one good and one great game. If only there was a site where college football previews were done every day…
August 26th, 2009 at 11:54 am
You can prepare kids in every way possible and they can still turn out fucked up.” you’re not going to be a good parent.
my son loves dog food. he’s always stealing it and eating it. He cries when he has to sit in his high chair while the dogs eat. I’ve done everything I can in that instance.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:55 am
underemphasizing the personal responsibility of the child.
spoken like someone without kids.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:55 am
Not being a parent I have no clue, but I would think that as a parent you never really stop parenting your child.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:57 am
Damn – a little disappointed. Just got back from a meeting and saw a post with 140+ comments and I was hoping it was Paolo going off the deep end again.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Ha ha, but I’m guessing you don’t feed him dog food just because he cries?
August 26th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Ha ha, but I’m guessing you don’t feed him dog food just because he cries?
August 26th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
Ha ha, but I’m guessing you don’t feed him dog food just because he cries?
it shuts him right up.
August 26th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
Sorry about the double post, I screwed up the quote the first time.
August 26th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
the problem in this thinking is that the personal responsibility of the parent sets the example and influences the personal responsibility of the child. the actions of the parents are not mutually exclusive from the future actions of the child. on the contrary, the first directly and indirectly influences the second.
August 26th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Those are great previews, although I got a little butt hurt that Oregon didn’t make the list.
/can’t wait for Thursday night. Even took Friday off of work.
August 26th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
awesome.
August 26th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
How did your son discover that he liked dog food in the first place?
August 26th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
The guy who did them busted his ass to do 30 good previews.
August 26th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
Wow, this thread badly needs something soothing.
August 26th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
someone say college football?
please hurry.
August 26th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
That’s an affirmative.
August 26th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Don’t know about yall…but after trolling through these commments, I’m ready to just off my two lil ones and absolve me and the wife of any further responsibility!
August 26th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
Don’t know about yall…but after trolling through these commments, I’m ready to just off my two lil ones and absolve me and the wife of any further responsibility!
/just kidding…for the undercover officer reading this