Ballin’: Time to Pop Bottles - Kings Win 3rd in a Row
NBA, Video November 11th. 2009, 10:30amDenver 90, Chicago 89: Brad Miller hit what he thought was a game-winning 3-pointer on an improbably fling with :00.3 seconds left … but referees waived it off (fast-forward to 1:40 in the video). Watched the replay over and over and it’s nearly impossible to tell if the shot should have counted. It kind of looks as if the ball was still on the tip of his fingers. But hey, at least they went to replay. Earl Smith, in his first game back from a 7-game suspension, missed eight of nine shots. Joakim Noah, one of the league’s most interesting characters, collected 21 rebounds.
Portland 93, Memphis 79: Old high school and Ohio State buddies Greg Oden and Mike Conley went head-to-head and nothing’s changed - Conley’s still struggling to find his way, and Oden’s still foul-prone (after a goose-egg in the 1st half, he scored 14 points in the 2nd half). Grizzlies rookie Hasheem Thabeet played one minute and fractured a bone in his lower jaw. Double-double machine Marc Gasol took half as many shots (9) as OJ Mayo (18), but still scored a team-high 20 points. Go figure.
Houston 103, Dallas 121: JT had 24, Dirk had 23 and the Erica Dampier took 20 rebounds as the Mavericks rallied from a massive early deficit to improve to 5-2. For the stat-heads: Shane Battier was 1-for-8 shooting and had a -24.
Oklahoma City 98, Sacramento 101: The Kings keep winning without leading scorer Kevin Martin, which means they should trade him, obviously. Second year pro Jason Thompson had 21-14 and rookie Tyreke Evans added 20-8-8 as the Kings reached the .500 mark with their third straight win since losing Martin for eight weeks. Kevin Durant missed a three at the buzzer; he finished with 37, including 18-for-18 from the line. The league’s leader in turnovers, Russell Westbrook, only committed one.
Orlando 93, Charlotte 91: Mr. Miyagi worked his magic on Vince Carter’s ankle, and the man who used to be “Half man, half amazing” came off the bench to score 15 points and the Magic locked down on defense in the final quarter to improve to 6-2. Charlotte missed 15 of 17 three-point attempts.
94 Responses to “Ballin’: Time to Pop Bottles - Kings Win 3rd in a Row”
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November 11th, 2009 at 10:34 am
Marc Gasol is a player. Guess he wasn’t just a throw away in the Gasol trade (does that sentence even make sense?)
November 11th, 2009 at 10:35 am
Brad Millers Shot was Good.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:35 am
when did Arnie Kander quit the Pistons?
November 11th, 2009 at 10:35 am
Looked like it was on his fingertips, but inconclusive. Call on the floor was good. Thought they should have stuck to it.
Dallas is really good this year.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:35 am
first home loss for the Bobcats. before last night, they had the 3rd best defense in the league and the worst offense in the league. there offense is horrible.
Brandon Bass had a good game last night. Dwight had 6 assists too. still nowhere near where they need to be. Cleveland is well rested and hasn’t played a game since Friday. should be a good game tonight
November 11th, 2009 at 10:37 am
Greg Oden Sucks.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:39 am
Oden actually looked pretty explosive last night, haven’t seen that since he’s been there.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:40 am
sounds exactly like a larry brown type team.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:41 am
Oden showing off for his ol’ buddy last night
he even had a nice assist. guy’s ONLY 21. plenty of time left for him.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:42 am
Wait, a replay took forever and was inconclusive? That’s weird. I thought replay fixed everything.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:42 am
sounds exactly like a larry brown type team
Tyson Chandler was pitiful last night. he cant hang with the beast
November 11th, 2009 at 10:42 am
/Fixed
November 11th, 2009 at 10:43 am
guy’s ONLY 21. plenty of time left for him
How long are people going to give this guy? seriously. i have never heard/read so many excuses made for one player. He was the #1 pick, picked over Kevin Durant
November 11th, 2009 at 10:45 am
Bud Selig says that shot was good, refs called it that way on the floor and this new fangled instant replay junk shouldn’t decide stuff.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:45 am
well…this is his only 2nd year actually playing, coming of major knee surgery. i say that buys him at least this entire season to show production.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:47 am
I heard more for Len Bias.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:47 am
Oden has only played, what 69 career NBA games. He doesn’t even have a full season under his belt.
Gotta give him more time. Durant is a scorer, but I haven’t seen the defense from him yet. Oden only really has one weakness, but it’s a big one. Stop fouling and stay on the floor.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:48 am
Because hes made out of Legos and falls apart constantly. Even in college.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:49 am
I don’t know, Irish. D-Ho is in his 6th year and he only has two offensive moves (the no-arc hook and the dunk). He’s still given room to grow.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:51 am
D-Ho is in his 6th year and he only has two offensive moves (the no-arc hook and the dunk). He’s still given room to grow
dont compare Oden to Howard Clown. Dwight is the best center in the league. Oden will never be better than Brook Lopez
November 11th, 2009 at 10:52 am
i have never heard/read so many excuses made for one player.
Serrrrrrrrrrrrrgio!!!!!!!!!!!!!
November 11th, 2009 at 10:53 am
Oden will never be better than
Brook LopezLuc Longley/fixed
November 11th, 2009 at 10:53 am
Depending on your point of view as to what position Tim Duncan plays, Dwight Howard is not the best center in the league. But he is very, very good.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:54 am
@SC- Tim Duncan will go down as the best power forward of all time
November 11th, 2009 at 10:55 am
/fixed
November 11th, 2009 at 10:56 am
and if you dont think Dwight is the best center in the league, you need to go to the doctors. asap
November 11th, 2009 at 10:57 am
Fair enough.
But look out irish. Karl Malone might hunt you down because he’s a jealous, pompous bastard. A jealous, pompous bastard that is not better than Tim Duncan.
He almost beat up Kobe for looking at his wife funny.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:58 am
Not that it matters, but what about Tim Duncan makes him not a center? Is it b/c he can hit a jump shot? Are centers not allowed to do this? I know we’ve had this discussion on here so it’s repetitive. In today’s game, the lines are obviously blurred between centers and power forwards.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:00 am
Karl Malone might hunt you down because he’s a jealous, pompous bastard. A jealous, pompous bastard that is not better than Tim Duncan
I thought it was funny what John Stockton said to Robinson during his speech. claiming Malone was the best PF ever
@cursed- enough with that discussion. you think your team is going to win tonight?
November 11th, 2009 at 11:02 am
I heard more for Len Bias.
he was good.
and if you dont think Dwight is the best center in the league, you need to go to the doctors. asap
that is not only true, but a scathing indictment of the center position.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:05 am
That a C on his team usually starts, takes the jump and guards the others teams C when on the court.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:05 am
21 years old and 69 games in the league coming off of major injuries is not the timetable to label a player a bust. Oden is slowly regaining his explosiveness, and when he is completely recovered and comfortable, he will be the best defensive center in the league along with being a more than adequate offensive player.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:07 am
Irish, cannot wait for tonight. I think the obvious way to go here is Orlando, but LeBron, outside of the Knicks first half, has not really even brought it yet this year. If he’s hitting his jumper like he was against NY, Cavs will play well tonight and might even win.
Shaq actually hasn’t played that poorly, you could argue he’s not getting the ball enough. He’ll want it tonight to prove a point.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:07 am
he will be the best defensive center in the league along with being a more than adequate offensive player
they said the same stuff when he was coming out of college. People were on here last year saying give him one more year. It is very amusing that there are so many O-Done apologists on this site
November 11th, 2009 at 11:08 am
Duncan guarded Shaq often during the Laker years. And vice versa. Especially down the stretch.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:11 am
@cursed- im looking forward to it. i’ll be there
November 11th, 2009 at 11:12 am
True, but David Robinson was on the same team and Duncan for many years (this is how the how PF thing got its start) and then in the later years you had Rasho, Nazr, Oberto getting minutes. Are you trying to say that these other guys were playing PF?
November 11th, 2009 at 11:13 am
Does anyone know wha the o/u point total was for the Bulls-Nuggets’ game?
November 11th, 2009 at 11:13 am
he usually guards the other C. who cares that he doesn’t take the jump? the ENTIRE offense and defense revolves around him. REVOLVES around him…making him the CENTER.
use the eyeball test people…duncan’s a C and has been his entire career.
but i don’t care about him being called a PF anymore just because that makes him the GOAT.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:13 am
I think we need to wait and see how this year plays out before judging Oden. Last year was basically his rookie year and he was coming off of a serious injury. He’s playing pretty solid basketball so far this year, just needs to stay on the court for another 8 minutes or so a game. Although he’ll never be an offensive force like Durant, he can own the glass and the defensive paint.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:16 am
Kwame at 22 - in final year with Washington
Darko at 22 - on his third nba team
/thinks Oden is and will be a productive nba player
November 11th, 2009 at 11:16 am
for MANY years? he had one year where he played big minutes, the rest he was a glorified role player.
and yes, that’s EXACTLY what we’re trying to say.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:17 am
What was David Robinson?
November 11th, 2009 at 11:19 am
a C for duncan’s first year and then an afterthought (in a tangible basketball sense).
there’s really no shame in admitting ducan’s a C, because that’s exactly what he is.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:19 am
FIVE years at 30 mins per game is role player now? Got it. Even if he was a role player the role he was playing was Center, that much I know.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:22 am
And just to fuel the fire a little bit. If you compare D-Ho and Oden’s rookie years they are very close, the difference being D-Ho played for a shitty team that could let D-Ho stay on the court while he struggled and D-Ho wasn’t coming off of a major injury. The Blazers were in the playoff hunt all year last year and couldn’t afford to drop games while waiting for Oden to develop.
D-Ho has developed pretty nicely, the jury is still out on whether Oden will or not.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:22 am
oh, boy, this one. I actually kinda like this one. I just wish this one came after lunch, because spencer’s going to bail on this one at lunch.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:23 am
Rasho wasn’t a power forward, neither was Nazr. Duncan may have guarded Shaq for portions of games, but so did Karl Malone, and no one is arguing that Malone was a center.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:27 am
In one season, even Chris Webber had to guard Shaq.
The main reason(s) Duncan didn’t guard Shaq the whole time were a: he wasn’t the center, b: too much punishment to put on your best player, c: so many cheap fouls given to the defender when Shaq elbowed their head.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:27 am
If you compare D-Ho and Oden’s rookie years they are very close
Howard averaged a double double and played all 82 games
November 11th, 2009 at 11:28 am
Rulebook says with 0.3 seconds you have to go straight up. Not pivot while falling backwards and then shoot. Nuggets win.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:31 am
The camera shot from above clearly showed the ball was still on Miller’s fingertips as the backboard light went off. It was funny listening to the Bull’s announcers going all homer.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:34 am
so you’re saying just ignore all basketball strategy and reasoning and say duncan isn’t a C because karl malone guarded shaq once and HE wasn’t a PF?
fact. the offense and defense for the spurs orbits around duncan.
fact. that makes him a C.
fact. im hungry as fuck and am going to bail on this post after lunch.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:36 am
So San Antonio started two centers? All I’m saying is that the lines are blurred. When teams went small against Russell or Chamberlin, you mean to tell me those guys weren’t guarding smaller guys? Does that now make them power forwards? Either way, it doesn’t matter, but just b/c you play with another taller back-to-the-basket player on your team in your frontline, doesn’t necessarily mean you’re not still doing things that centers do.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:40 am
NO! Duncan is a PF because all through out the majority of his career he played while there was another clear Center on the floor.
the best reason that he is a C is that he sometimes guarded Shaq? Or another teams C? Sure he did, sometimes he played Center (more so in the last few years).
fact. That would be the definition of BEST PLAYER, not C.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:42 am
So, this means Jordan was a center?
November 11th, 2009 at 11:42 am
no, that’s the definition of a CENTER. he’s in the middle of the offense, and everything else moves around him. i.e. he’s THE FUCKING CENTER.
im still waiting for a LEGITIMATE BASKETBALL REASON why duncan is a PF. because he plays like a center, the team acts like he’s the center, and by golly, HE’S A FUCKING CENTER.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:43 am
What? if you are using the assumption that SA started a player at each position then Duncan was the PF. This is a fact, there are no blurred lines. If you want to start with assumption that Duncan is a Center and because of this San Antonio had a great and genius strategy to start two Centers therefore Duncan is a Center then there is really no counter.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:43 am
no that means jordan played in the triangle offense.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:44 am
So, this means Jordan was a center?
I was typing that up, Darrell.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:44 am
So then you’re agreeing then that it’s semantics right? B/c clearly a coach could willingly put two players on the floor as centers. They do it all the time with two power forwards. Either way, it’s mostly irrelevant b/c most coaches use interchangeable 4’s and 5’s in their systems, where all big on big screens are switched. Also, Remember that the Spurs defense was designed to funnel all penetration to Duncan, he was and still is the anchor defensively on the backline. That’s a role traditionally reserved for a center. (Center of the defense..so to speak, which is how I’ve heard coaches talk about the defensive role of the center).
November 11th, 2009 at 11:46 am
high five, cursed.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:46 am
im still waiting for a LEGITIMATE BASKETBALL REASON why duncan is a PF. because he plays like a center, the team acts like he’s the center, and by golly, HE’S A FUCKING CENTER.
In your universe, the center of a basketball team routinely takes the ball 12-18 feet from the basket, and then faces? Kareem barely ranged out that far, and he had great range.
When Duncan is out there, there’s some other no talent moron being covered by another post player waiting to see what Duncan does, and fighting for rebounding position.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:47 am
This is FALSE. The Spurs always have started someone other than Duncan at the Center position and given players other than Duncan significant playing time at the Center position.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:47 am
Seriously, who gives a fuck if he’s a PF or a C? He’s a winner, and Spencer would kill for LeBron to have Duncan’s competitive fire.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:47 am
im still waiting for a LEGITIMATE BASKETBALL REASON why duncan is a PF
Duncan is a PF because all through out the majority of his career he played while there was another clear Center on the floor
you missed it
November 11th, 2009 at 11:48 am
So b/c he’s more versatile, that disqualified Duncan from being a center? I’m not sure I follow that one. I understand many of the other points about this but that’s not one of them.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:48 am
you realize that position pigeonholing in the modern nba is completely worthless, right? in anyone’s mind in 1990 would they imagine PF’s shooting 3’s with regularity to the point where it’s actually considered part of the position when looking at prospects?
things change. positions evolve. C is no different.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:49 am
The Spurs always have started someone other than Duncan at the Center position and given players other than Duncan significant playing time at the Center position
exactly
November 11th, 2009 at 11:51 am
things change. positions evolve. C is no different.
Then it’s irrelevant what you’re saying, what I’m saying and what anybody else is saying right? And we should all STFU about it, right?
Then what would we do?
November 11th, 2009 at 11:51 am
So last year when the Pacers would go with the unorthodox lineup of Roy Hibbert and Rasho, did that disqualify Hibbert as a center? Just curious
November 11th, 2009 at 11:51 am
So then you’re agreeing then that it’s semantics right? B/c clearly a coach could willingly put two players on the floor as centers. They do it all the time with two power forwards. Either way, it’s mostly irrelevant b/c most coaches use interchangeable 4’s and 5’s in their systems, where all big on big screens are switched.
NO! You are arguing for semantics to prove that Duncan is a Center. and NO! not all 5’s are interchangeable, specifically as it relates to this case, I would not ever say that David Robinson played Power Forward, EVER!
Also, Remember that the Spurs defense was designed to funnel all penetration to Duncan, he was and still is the anchor defensively on the backline. That’s a role traditionally reserved for a center. (Center of the defense..so to speak, which is how I’ve heard coaches talk about the defensive role of the center).
Even if you take this argument to be the definition of Center the person they did this to was DAVID ROBINSON
November 11th, 2009 at 11:51 am
that’s a statsheet semantic argument. STRATEGICALLY, he’s a C. just because he’s listed as something doesn’t mean he plays that position ESPECAILLY when pop has admitted that the whole reason he’s listed as a PF is for bullshit reasons like all-star votes and not hurthing the admiral’s feelings.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:52 am
ive been saying this for years…ask irish. there’s big men, wing players and PG’s. that’s it.
then what would we do?
/spits
i got nothin.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:53 am
So last year when the Pacers would go with the unorthodox lineup of Roy Hibbert and Rasho, did that disqualify Hibbert as a center? Just curious
Foster
November 11th, 2009 at 11:53 am
Legler asked a question last night on ESPN to whoever the other analyst was, “Who is gonna have the better NBA career, Marc Gasol or Greg Oden”. before the other guy could even answer Legler interrupted with “I THINK GASOL WILL!”
November 11th, 2009 at 11:53 am
ive been saying this for years…ask irish
going on 3 years now
November 11th, 2009 at 11:54 am
Rasho is on the Raptors, no?
November 11th, 2009 at 11:54 am
David Robinson retired 7 years ago. Since then, the Spurs have easily, (not even to be debated) funneled all penetration to David Robinson. Whatever that means in this argument, but clearly they weren’t funneling the defense to Rasho or Jackie Butler or Malik Rose.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:54 am
eh, who knew. He played on the Pacers last year.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:55 am
I was curious as well so I went and checked out how many minutes this vaunted TWO center lineup played and I see ZERO!
November 11th, 2009 at 11:56 am
I was curious as well so I went and checked out how many minutes this vaunted TWO center lineup played and I see ZERO!
BURN!!
November 11th, 2009 at 11:56 am
but clearly they weren’t funneling the defense to Rasho or Jackie Butler or Malik Rose
what about Matt Bonner? he played center for the Spurs last year
November 11th, 2009 at 11:57 am
Ok, well let’s agree that Shaq and Z have shared the floor this year. So now neither are centers? Or both are? If you’re using the Rasho and Duncan argument that they both shared the floor, thus somehow disqualifying Duncan from center status despite him being playing center predominantly in those games, then how do we deal with the Shaq/Z thing? Or does this only apply to those who start the games?
November 11th, 2009 at 11:59 am
I hear yeah that sometimes Duncan does things centers have been known to do (get rebounds, block shots, etc).
Lebron and Kobe often bring the ball up the court but No One is saying that these guys are point guards.
The fact is that if you go by teams playing five positions at a time, Duncan played most of his time at PF.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
I don’t know. I wish we had a way to instantly add this up. But the Spurs this year have used this lineup the most: Parker-Finley-Jefferson-Bonner-Duncan So who’s the Center there? Duncan.
In 06/07 it was Parker-Ginobili-Bowen-Oberto-Duncan Who’s the Center there? Oberto or Duncan?
November 11th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
them on the floor together is extremely painful to watch, if they are trying to mirror the Spurs teams of this decade they are failing.
Total time this has been done this year is 10 minutes or about 5% of all playing time. THIS IS AN EXCEPTION and in no way proves that TWO Centers is normal or regular to somehow backend Duncan is a Center because two centers is common nba strategy
November 11th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
Oberto.
But even if you take that Duncan played way more center over the last few years (He Did) this does not eliminate the fact that guys such as David Robinson, Rasho, K Willis, Nazr, Elson, Oberto got. Those guys were clearly centers
November 11th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
I just don’t get what makes Oberto the center? B/c his game is more limited? and b/c all he can do is score garbage baskets inside? Duncan scores way more on the low blocks (is taller, not that it matters, but if you’re 7′ you’re more frequently going to be labeled a center than if you’re 6′10), again, he’s the anchor defensively. But we’re not going to change minds here. Technically, I’m just advocating that I can understand him being labeled a center more than a PF.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
Oberto could be considered a PF, fine. But still you are only getting to 4 of Duncans years 80 games started and a whopping 15 mins per. So even if you say duncan has been a full time C the last 4 years (he has not) that is a minority of his career. He won TWO Titles with a HOF Center right next to him.
I don’t really get that Duncan should be consider a center because he does all Center things well. He does all Power Foward this well too!
November 11th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
Power forwards can’t master the backstroke.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Would a center let this happen?
November 11th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
link fail
November 11th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
This would mean Georgetown has never sent a center to the NBA, because between Ewing, Mourning, and Muotombo, you could make a 10 minute highlight film of the dunks they’ve had banged on their heads.