Bill Belichick: Hubris or the Mathematical Move?
NFL, Video November 16th. 2009, 9:15am
Bill Belichick ’s face last night, as captured by Sports Hernia, reminded us of Edvard Munch’s “The Scream.” Blowing a 13-point lead with four minutes left will do that to you, especially when you have the hubris to go for it on 4th-and-two from your own 28 with the lead and two minutes remaining. Colts 35, Patriots 34. The internet and the media, both of which seem to detest the arrogant Belichick, mocked him deep into the night. Every NBC football analyst shredded the decision. But did Belichick make the right call?
1) Peyton Manning, play at home, with 90 seconds left and timeouts to spare, could have taken the Colts 80 yards anyway. Other fourth quarter TD drives by Manning: 6 plays, 79 yards, 1:44. Five plays, 79 yards, 1:59.
2) According to the math wizards, going for it is statistically the smart move. Two yards is essentially a 2-point conversion.
The knee-jerk reaction is to rip the call; hell, last night, groggy and half-asleep, we had to ask the wife twice, “why is he going for it?” In a playoff game, Belichick probably punts. Regular season? Go for it.
Media reaction today will contain heaps of glee. An excessive abundance of mirth. Keep your distance from New England sports talk radio today, as well as tall buildings in Boston. Hopefully, though, once Patriots’ fans sleep off this loss, they’ll realize at 6-3, the playoffs are still going to happen. Oh, and New England was fairly dominant last night – 477 yards of total offense, Moss was unguardable (9-179-2), and the defense look sharp until the fourth quarter meltdown.
*
Bad Weekend, I: A slew of top-tier players suffered injuries Sunday. Brian Westbrook (concussion) could be lost for the season. The Eagles rushed for just 29 yards in their second loss in a row. With four tough games up next, the Eagles – a sexy Super Bowl pick in the preseason – suddenly look very vulnerable. The 2nd biggest injury is probably Cedric Benson’s hip, but we’ll get to the Bengals later today. Kyle Orton’s ankle will be cause for concern in Denver, especially with a 1st place showdown against the streaking Chargers this weekend. Ronnie Brown will almost-certainly miss the Dolphins’ game next weekend against Carolina, which is good news for Panthers’ fans, who are holding out hope for a run at the playoffs (too bad the schedule is daunting). And lastly, Atlanta’s Michael Turner, who was just heating up, severely sprained his ankle and probably won’t play at the Giants this weekend. The Falcons are 5-4 and probably will miss the playoffs – doesn’t surprise us – without Turner.
*
Bad Weekend, II: Not a good Sunday to be a road favorite. The betting “public” leaned heavily on New Orleans, Denver, Atlanta, and Dallas. None covered. Three of them lost.
*
Yes, the Jets. We said the season was over after the loss to Miami two weeks ago, but briefly tried to convince ourselves otherwise during the bye week. But now, the Jets have been mathematically eliminated. And frankly, we’re not too crushed. Consider this: How often do a rookie QB and a rookie coach take a team to the playoffs? Other than last year, when’s the last time it happened?
Sure, it hurts to think about going 6-10 after the 3-0 start and trading for Braylon Edwards. But they lost their run-stopper (Kris Jenkins) for the season, and their swiss army knife (Leon Washington) too.
Four-step offseason begins now:
1) Get 2008 1st rounder Vernon Gholston on the field for the rest of the season. He’ll produce or he won’t, and that’ll make cutting him/trading him easier.
2) Please begin to rest Thomas Jones. He’s 31, that age where running backs hit the wall unexpectedly (see LT and Shaun Alexander). He won’t be happy with it, but a limit of 15 carries a game (Shonn Greene should get 15 himself) should keep Jones under 250 for the season. He’s been over 290 carries for four straight seasons and has only missed one game.
3) The 2010 draft. Needs: Defensive end (Jerry Hughes of TCU? Carlos Dunlap of Florida?), cornerback opposite Revis. A name that could replace Leon Washington’s workload: Javier Arenas from Alabama. Terrific cover corner and outstanding punt returner.
4) What to do with Leon Washington and Braylon Edwards? Washington willl want big money. Fans heart him. He’s a dangerous return man. Edwards will want big money, too. He’s show flashes of potential … and also had a costly fumble and dropped a 2-point conversion in the fourth quarter. Given the choice, you’d have to lean Edwards. They gave up players and picks for him, and if you don’t keep him, then you almost certainly have to take an elite WR in the draft.
And if we have to hear one more person talk about MJD’s “heads-up” play …
166 Responses to “Bill Belichick: Hubris or the Mathematical Move?”
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November 16th, 2009 at 9:16 am
Whether they got the ball at the 29 or their own 29, I think they were scoring.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:18 am
That being said, he should have saved a time out for the challenge. Did he have any left?
November 16th, 2009 at 9:19 am
F the J-E-T-S. knocked me out of the survival league. should have known better
November 16th, 2009 at 9:20 am
No, he called a TO to talk over what play to run on fourth and they had to burn one a few plays earlier because they had the wrong personnel on the field. Same thing happened earlier in the half, too.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:21 am
That said, I’m not sure that would’ve been overturned. It was too hard to tell when he had complete control of the ball. No matter how certain oracle Deion Sanders is.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:22 am
Make them earn it, at least.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:22 am
That being said, he should have saved a time out for the challenge. Did he have any left?
that’s the biggest rub Jay. Brady called a TO prior to first down on that series, for some reason, leaving them one. Then Belichick called timeout to decide what to do prior to 4th, leaving them none.
Had they been allowed to challenge, they probably would have gotten the first down on a reversal.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:23 am
Yep
November 16th, 2009 at 9:23 am
There’s no way that call would have been overturned if it were challenged, I don’t think. No “indisputable evidence”.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:24 am
Same situation in the playoffs, no way does he go for it.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:24 am
agreed.
now if that ref had that same thought with that BS pass interference call, but what evs.
great game, too bad it didn’t turn out the way i wanted it to.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:24 am
No chance in hell. He was clearly bobbling it at least at first and there was no way to clearly say he had control past the marker. Still, surprised the Pats burned TO’s like that. Uncharacteristic.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:24 am
Make them earn it, at least.
better to never let Manning see it, because he’s an assassin these days. He’s got a pretty lousy, banged up team to 9-0, again.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:25 am
It’s not often that such a matchup not only lives up to the hype, but maybe surpasses it. That being said, I long for the days of 2003 when all the bounces went New Englad’s way, and you knew that somehow the Colts would give the game up.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:25 am
I thought we learned a lesson from Andy Reid on spot challenges
November 16th, 2009 at 9:26 am
Same situation in the playoffs, no way does he go for it.
There was an angry genius on ESPN who stopped just short of calling for his head today. He kept brandishing his superbowl ring and talking about “studying” the NFL. I didn’t recognize him, except that he was bald, and I could tell he was a sucky QB.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:27 am
If Hayden and Gonzalez can come back, this time will be a LOT better. If they don’t, they’re going to keep having to pull rabbits out of a hat. And, as TBL knows, Manning has a lot fewer hats than Brady.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:27 am
*team
November 16th, 2009 at 9:29 am
I think he made the right move in going for it, I think the mistake was tackling Addai at the 1 yard line. If they would have just let him score there, they would have had 45 seconds or so to get in field goal range to win the game. Instead, they wasted 30 seconds by stopping him (twice) at the goal line when it was almost a given that Indi is going to score from there.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:29 am
Is there a place we can look up statistics on instant replay in the nfl? Mike Smith wasted a time out for Atlanta yesterday and Jeff Fisher did too for the Titans. I’m willing to bet challenging spots is a bad play at least 90 percent of the time, but I’d like to have statistics to back up that assertion.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:30 am
I really hope last night’s game doesn’t get swallowed up and forgotten as usual by the media machine. I can’t remember being more genuinely shocked at a move like that. This was a Greg Norman-like blunder, but at least you expected it from Norman.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:31 am
off topic/
don’t know if anyone watched this WWII in HD on the history channel, but it’s amazing.
/off topic
November 16th, 2009 at 9:33 am
Hey, he’s got a ring, and Marino doesn’t, so obviously he knows how to win. What he doesn’t know is how to get an offense into the endzone, but gosh darn it he knows how to win*!
*have Ray Lewis and the Ravens D at their absolute peak so that a team can go 4 straight games without a TD and still split them 2-2.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:39 am
That screengrab is pretty hilarious, though.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:41 am
Spot challenges arent always a bad idea. Marvin Lewis challenged a 3rd down conversion yesterday and won, forcing the Stealers to punt.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:42 am
If you watched SC last night, you would have thought Belickick raped and pillaged an entire city by listening to Trent Dilfer.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:43 am
Belichick on SportCenter, live at 11:45am eastern
November 16th, 2009 at 9:44 am
patriots fans have plenty to take from this: dominated most of the game.
maroney fumbled in the end zone. brady sharp.
rematch in playoffs and i like NE’s chances.
oops, i got ahead of myself. SD will beat Indy. again.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:44 am
Prime gravatar material.
o/t – Norman Chad is still funny as hell.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:45 am
don’t know if anyone watched this WWII in HD on the history channel, but it’s amazing.
wilhelm: caught about half of it last night late. I’m a sucker for that WWII stuff (i’ve got Band of Brothers on tape delay in my head). Also, see where Hanks and Spielberg are doing another one, based on the War in the Pacific? On HBO next spring.
I was also distressed to learn that LD’s 9 year old friend had a rash on her pussy
/Curb’d
November 16th, 2009 at 9:46 am
You’re such a bitter Jets fan. Sucks to be you.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:46 am
Surprised there’s no mention of Roethlismanager frauding it up against the Bengals yesterday.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:48 am
@jpq: so far i think this WWII in HD is better than the Ken Burns Doc that came out the past few years, it’s incredible. so gripping as it moves along.
didn’t know there was a BoB type show about the pacific war coming out. Is it based on an Ambrose book or is it all original?
November 16th, 2009 at 9:49 am
i never saw one play (on purpose) of last night’s game. i can’t stand watching peyton manning and i’m no fan of the bill belicheats. i actually watched more (i think three plays) of tulsa-east carolina.
from what i have read, it was a calculated move by belicheat. his defense turned into tampa bay’s in the fourth quarter. guess he figured if he did punt, the colts were going to score any way.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:51 am
With this logic, Peyton Manning is the greatest QB in the history of football (including video games – sorry Tecmo Bo) if we are going to just assume he scores when the Colts have the ball. Let’s see, using the same math logic, if Peyton has the ball 10 times, they score 10 times and since 2-point conversions are so easy, let’s go ahead and give him those too…so that comes out to 80 points a game. The only assumption being that he gets 10 drives.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:52 am
Surprised there’s no mention of Roethlismanager frauding it up against the Bengals yesterday.
I didn’t see anything but the last Steeler drive, and Cincy was coming at him hard. I would have paid money for a chance to see that game.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:52 am
@bsanders: dude, you seem to have a negative outlook towards this game for the Colts. I think it was good to see them play a tough team, encounter some controversy, play gritty in the 2nd half, and prevail. Granted, it wasn’t some amazing performance but this is the kind of game that gives players needed confidence in each other. There is a lot of value to that for any team.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:53 am
wilhelm: here’s the trailer and a little about it. I saw a couple thing thing on HBO about a few weeks ago
http://popwatch.ew.com/2009/06/22/spielberg-and-hanks-bring-youthe-pacific-trailer/
November 16th, 2009 at 9:53 am
That play was pretty blatant, though. Nowhere near as close as the Faulk play, and not to mention that Faulk was in fact short of the line to gain. All that aside, it was the right move to go for it. They had the right play call, they executed it, and the guy made the catch. Just a great defensive effort. Not much you can do about that.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:55 am
jets fan would want Edwards back knowing his dropsy issue is alive and doing just fine? dude has serious hands issues. keep leon and be merry. draft julio.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:55 am
With this logic, Peyton Manning is the greatest QB in the history of football (including video games – sorry Tecmo Bo) if we are going to just assume he scores when the Colts have the ball.
Exactly. The head coach of the Patriots assumed that if he gave Manning the ball, he would score, regardless of where he got it.
So he put the ball in the hands of his absolute best player, throwing to one his of most reliable guys, and a slight bobble cost him the game.
Don’t put this on us Ritty. We’re not geniuses.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:57 am
They had the right play call, they executed it, and the guy made the catch. Just a great defensive effort.
I completely agree. End the game if you can. The best defense is the clock on zeros, run that fucker out.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:57 am
For a game that had neither offense sniffing the end zone, it was a pretty awesome game. I was surprised my market picked it up over VY.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:57 am
@jpq: wow, that looks incredible.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:58 am
That’s all true, but the guys they’ve been plugging in to cover up some injuries are starting to show why they’re backups. When you’re constructed star-salary heavy, it’s tough to build depth. Thems the breaks.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:59 am
How can you not like Peyton? Because he bangs Kenny Chesney? He’s quite good at teh football.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:59 am
Speaking of hands issues, you guys cannot imagine what happened yesterday in the Dallas GB game one one play.
Romo scrambles, buys a little time, throws a ball at the sideline to Roy Williams for a first down (about 15 yards)..the ball goes right through Roy Williams hands, both of them, and hits him squarely in the face. Before the ball has even hit the ground, Williams is looking over at his own sidelines, at his receivers coach, making the “uncatchable” signal by waving his hand over his head.
I wanted the power to teleport to Green Bay so I could choke that lazy motherfucker.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:59 am
The Bengals Steelers game was awesome if you like physical, defensive football. Great game to watch.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:00 am
For a game that had neither offense sniffing the end zone, it was a pretty awesome game.
i was dying for it. I had Garrard v Sanchize, and the fucking Lions. Yuck, double yuck, and triple yuck.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:02 am
Bengals-Steelers was the best game of the day. Except for maybe the last quarter of Colts-Pats, which was pretty interesting.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:02 am
I think you’re missing the point, albeit a sarcastic one, of the rest of my post. If this is this case, then your best way of playing the Colts is to go for it on 4th down the entire game. Actually I think there is a high school somewhere in Arkansas that does this. Don’t think that translates to the NFL. And I don’t think it translates to the last series of the game either.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:03 am
+ holy f*cking yuck
/tonight’s game.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:03 am
Does anyone remember the final bet between JerseyYo and _______ on the ND Pitt game?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:04 am
Ever since the locker room skit with Will Forte, it’s impossible not to love Peyton Manning.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:05 am
I got to sleep in today and still got the worst sleep of my life last night. Just have to keep telling myself they can get revenge in the playoffs…
November 16th, 2009 at 10:06 am
Roy Williams has the attitude of T.O. without his ability. I hate that guy.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:06 am
I think you’re missing the point, albeit a sarcastic one, of the rest of my post.
you seemed to have missed the point of my response, which wasn’t at all sarcastic. The Pats best players play on offense, and they had a chance to end the game, so they took it, with their best players.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:06 am
I guess I’m trying to have a positive outlook on this comment in that we can beat an AFC contender with “the guys they’ve been plugging in to cover up some injuries” even when they “are starting to show why they’re backups”. I’m happy with that outcome and as I mentioned before those are the types of games that have those replacements playing with just a little more confidence and just a little bit better the next time around. I’m all for that.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:07 am
smart move…didn’t pay off, but they don’t always pay off.
can’t wait for the rematch in the playoffs.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:07 am
Thank god I missed that game Dirt. The name Roy Williams has haunted the Cowboys for a decade.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:08 am
Sucks without the refs working for ya huh?
/Still bitter about some crappy calls for the Pats in the playoffs.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:09 am
No, you’re missing the point…Belicheck knew that his defense was worn down, hurt, and demoralized. Given a no huddle situation against one of the greatest of all time, it was extremely likely that the Colts were going to score against that defense regardless of where they got the ball. So Belicheck gives the ball to his best player to win the game, on a play that should work 80-90% of the time. Right call, right play, and it almost worked. 80% chance of winning it, versus punting and a 75-80% chance of Manning scoring anyways. You take the first option, unless you’re a pussy like 99% of the rest of NFL coaches.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:09 am
sanders, haven’t the colts lost to the chargers the last 2 times they met in the playoffs?
just sayin’ …
and not a bitter jets fan. was momentarily bitter when Kerry Rhodes led M Lewis fly right by him … oh well.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:09 am
Herd just threw out a stat that Brady and Belicheck were a 76% conversion rate on 4th downs.
/glad I had Pats +2.5
November 16th, 2009 at 10:10 am
If the Steelers play the Pats this year in the playoffs, the field will bleed yellow
November 16th, 2009 at 10:10 am
Apparently they were told not to tackle him.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:11 am
/Still bitter about some crappy calls for the Pats in the playoffs
when are you not bitter?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:12 am
cracker jack – why did I think you were an Eagles fan?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:12 am
@irish: You love f’n with me huh?
How’d them Bills do for ya pal?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:12 am
*margin for error of 80-90% in made up stats
I remain entrenched in the “make him earn it” camp.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:12 am
Sayin’ what, exactly? If you’re going to snark, please to put some sack behind it. Or some kind of thought.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:13 am
Not to go all TMQ, but I freaking hate punting the ball. We’re all agreed that turning the ball over is one of the worst things an offense can do, right? So why is willingly turning the ball over to be praised? Especially in that instance. The Pats were six feet from ending the game. Go for it.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:13 am
Going for it was a gamble, but Faulk got a terrible spot. That call should have been reviewed. I thought if it was at 2 minutes, the both reviews, regardless of when the play started.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:15 am
Reviews start from the booth beginning with the first play after the two-minute warning, and that one wouldn’t have been overturned because there wasn’t enough evidence to do so.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:15 am
This affects my math a little bit – now Manning only scores 80% of the time when he has the ball which means the Colts are only going to average 50-60 ppg.
I’m not exactly saying it was a bad call for the Pats to go for it. I just don’t think it was the right decision. If you punt the ball you bring more possibilities back into the game – more field, muffed punt, INT (Manning did throw 2 of those), loss of downs, the clock, fumbles…
November 16th, 2009 at 10:16 am
No way does that spot get overturned, unless SEC or Big East officials are working the booth.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:17 am
@irish: You love f’n with me huh?
How’d them Bills do for ya pal?
bitter
November 16th, 2009 at 10:17 am
i think combined this game had 4 or 5 possessions that had the teams inside the 10 yard line…i consider that sniffing
November 16th, 2009 at 10:18 am
Only Mariotti could somehow bring this all back to Spygate. Putz.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:18 am
SG: I do live near Philly now, but Im from New England.
I cant believe they didnt have a replay from the other side of the field to show exactly when Faulk had possession. It looked to me like he got a handle of it right at the first down line.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:19 am
why would you even read that garbage, sanders? when has he had a strong, original, informative take on ANYTHING? EVER?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:19 am
Not to mention the ref who made the spot was behind Faulk and couldnt possibly have seen when he got possession
November 16th, 2009 at 10:19 am
@irish:
You’re bitter over the Bills? Or you’re still attempting to F with me?
Either way: Bills are crap, Colts are 9-0, and the Yanks won the World Series. Sports are doing well for me right now.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:19 am
Please do not feed the trolls. Thanks
November 16th, 2009 at 10:20 am
And ACC officials who are puzzled at the thought of a forward lateral.
/from the UNC-Miami game Sat
November 16th, 2009 at 10:20 am
Same reason I watch The Vampire Diaries. I’m a sucker for comedy that’s unaware it’s comedy.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:20 am
He scores 75-80% of the time against a tired, injured defense in a no-huddle situation.
Seriously, do you not understand time and place of a game? The defense was tired, and had already given up 2 79 yard TD drives in the quarter. Play to win the fucking game, especially when you’ve got a great quarterback.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:21 am
Or you’re still attempting to F with me?
you are still talking?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:21 am
The rest of this should have been done in haiku form.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:22 am
NEVER GETS OLD.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:22 am
Irish and PhatJ showdown at noon on the playround behind the elementary school.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:23 am
I did write “game over” in my notebook.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:23 am
So the line judge across the field with 15 or so players between him and the play had a better view?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:25 am
Yes. And pay no attention to the fact that you could clearly see on replay that Faulk was clearly short of the marker. Bad spot! Bad spot!
November 16th, 2009 at 10:27 am
Irish knows better than this.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:28 am
Bobbled.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:29 am
I dont know how you can see it that way. Watch. He gathers the ball just as he’s crossing the 30.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:30 am
You’re dead wrong!
November 16th, 2009 at 10:30 am
johnson- go back in your hole for another 6 months and I’ll see ya next season chump
November 16th, 2009 at 10:32 am
cracker jack…just think of this as karmic payback for the tuck rule bullshit and belichick running it up on every team he faced in 2007.
and it was the right call.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:32 am
How in the fuck are the Colts playing the disrespect card? Was that call not the sign of the utmost respect for the Colts offense? For fuck’s sake.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:32 am
Late to the party – but I don’t know how people saw this. This was a 9 win team last year that made no significant improvements and lost several key players.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:34 am
I would be ok going on 4th and inches, but to throw the ball there, no way. Defense was playing well, with under 2 min all you need is a sack or a few tackles in bounds.
If the clutchest of all the clutchiest QB’s evar couldn’t do it against the bengals earlier, captain choke job probably wasn’t doing it either.
(thats sarcasm, I do love me some peyton)
November 16th, 2009 at 10:34 am
Spence. I hear this every fucking time the Pats get screwed now. The question is, how long does karma fucking last? ISnt Brady losing a season enough? Fuck.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:35 am
Damn, mad that quick? Bet you wish Chris Johnson woulda been in a hole yesterday huh?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:36 am
Can you find a clip that doesn’t clearly show that he isn’t in possession of the ball until he hits the ground?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:36 am
That video is great. Doesn’t get closer than that.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:36 am
But what about the 40 seasons before the Super Bowls when the Pats were one of the worst franchises in football?
When their franchise “highlight” is being on the losing end of the most lopsided Super Bowl at the time, doesn’t 3 SB wins in 4 years kind of put you back at zero?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:37 am
to be fair…they were HUGE fucking assholes. and i think the karma gods are dipping into the crimes against decency comitted by dustin pedroia and papelbon too.
but it should be just about even now…
November 16th, 2009 at 10:37 am
you are still talking?
Bills are crap
NEVER GETS OLD.
phat: aren’t you the asshole on here from Buffalo that only trashes Buffalo?
/or are just an asshole I have confused with another asshole?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:37 am
The third down play was horrible, and was really close to a pick 6. Maroney fumbling in the endzone, and Brady throwing an INT in the endzone cost the Patriots the game more than a 4th and 2 call.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:38 am
Mad? not at all. guess you missed my comment about the NFL in the roundup. must have been anxious to get right in this thread and shit on the Bills eh Johnson?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:38 am
It was a little bit of both. And why would they respect the Colts defense at that point? But you should probably try and calm down a little bit, you don’t want to end up telling an entire segment of the country to get fucked like another Pats fan did.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:38 am
That Marv Levy video trumps all. Eat it, Jim Mora.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:38 am
hey, nobody said it’s logical.
browns fans have a whole lot of karma coming their way, but instead, we have the worst football team the NFL has ever seen. last year’s lions would beat the browns by two scores, so we’re waiting for karmic justice, just like you guys are getting the short stick.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:38 am
As an Eagles fan, I assure you that they are who I thought they were. I had wild card expectations (at best) for this season. They’re missing legit players at LB, on the O-Line and Westbrook is on the way out. I wouldn’t be shocked if yesterday was the end of the line for him. Go read some of his comments after the first concussion. He’s not going to take any chances with his brain.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:39 am
whew… glad to know I’m not in the early stages of Alzheimers
November 16th, 2009 at 10:41 am
aren’t you the asshole on here from Buffalo that only trashes Buffalo?
sure is
November 16th, 2009 at 10:41 am
Do you have vision problems? The 2nd angle shows when he secured the ball. It really cant be more clear. The screen shot at the end of the video says it all.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:42 am
The Browns could win seven super bowls and still have karma in the bank for what Modell did to you guys.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:42 am
irish: you get my message from that hoops thread on Sat about that thing we talked about?
/heading out for 2 hrs
//let me know
November 16th, 2009 at 10:44 am
@jpq- saw it. thanks
November 16th, 2009 at 10:44 am
I probably would have if I wouldve stayed on here last night and not gone immediately to bed. But you said so yourself, you can understand the frustration. This was just way too similar to the 07 AFC championship, and left me with the same feeling after. Blah.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:44 am
/Starts porn music…
November 16th, 2009 at 10:45 am
Do you have vision problems?
CJ, sorry, but as he hits the ground, he once again bobbles the ball. That replay proves the opposite of what you want it to prove.
He can’t have any of that forward progress that you want him to have because he only gains possession of that ball once he’s on the ground.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:46 am
So is Peyton hurt, he had some Cutler like horrible nowhere near the receiver throws last night?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:48 am
its a moronic call that gets most coaches fired. u obv show faith in ur def and make him go 80+ yards to beat. Not 29. Not with 2 min to go.
And its not like he was marching down the field all night on u. just stupid.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:48 am
???? Im seriously watching over and over again, the ball is secure in his hands. Not against his body the whole time, but his hands have complete control. How are you seeing this??
November 16th, 2009 at 10:48 am
So i’m just reading MMQB, and he’s touching on Rodney Harrison’s analysis postgame. He failed to mention that Rodney Harrison looked like he was going to cry. Like he just found out there was no Santa Claus.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:49 am
I think something’s wrong with his hand, there were at least four throws that seemed to slip out upon release, headed god knows where. Thankfully, only one was picked off, but that’s not good.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:53 am
CJ, i see what the official sees, and that is that as he’s hitting the ground (between 33 and 35 seconds) the ball moves, looking like a bobble. That’s what that official sees too.
Of note: to say that Kevin Faulk is usually surehanded is an understatement. He didn’t do his job, and that’s rare.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:55 am
can’t stand all the histrionics or the arena ball offense.
just call the friggin’ play and knock off the dramatics.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:58 am
@JPQ and Irish
I didn’t know that was me but I’m ok with it. Irish jumps up and calls me bitter about Pats getting calls in past playoffs, so my reply was “hows them Bills?” Now who is bitter?
For the record it is Bills fans that I dislike… I’m a Sabres fan if that makes you guys any less mad.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:59 am
Arena ball offense? Fascinating interpretation.
The dramatics? You mean pointing out who is blitzing to his linemen and RB’s. OK.
He’s so ridiculously ahead of everyone in the league when it comes to reading defenses, understanding situations, and taking advantage of what is given to him. It really isn’t even close.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:01 am
@bsanders: I thought the same thing and cried a little on the inside.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:02 am
I’m a Sabres fan if that makes you guys any less mad
do you read the comments or no? i said i wasnt mad. get over yourself Bills fans hater
November 16th, 2009 at 11:05 am
Cutler just walks up and hikes the ball, no audibles, no protection adjustments, and he’s elite (laughs).
Used to not like Peyton, thought he was a dome-fraud choker. Now, hes the freaking man and I wish to have his child (although as a male it would have to be a Junior like situation).
November 16th, 2009 at 11:05 am
really? how come he can’t master the postseason if he is so far ahead of the pack?
maybe if he’d quit all the jumping around prior to the snap barking fake orders he’d have more than one ring?
a quarterback has to have more super bowl rings than trent dilfer and brad johnson for me to consider the guy otherworldly.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:05 am
Yes but things like
make me think you’re mad. At least you got it right though, good for you.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:06 am
Come on now, be a little more realistic. Those two guys themselves would ask you to never bring their name up in comparison to Peyton Manning ever again.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:08 am
Ummm… Defense?
So you know just compared Peyton Manning to Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer and played the Super Bowl ring card. I’m done here. There’s nothing more that can be said.
/Get this man a cookie!
November 16th, 2009 at 11:08 am
I think this guy needs his own weekly post.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:08 am
Jimmy, your position is indefensible. You don’t like him, leave it at that.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:13 am
well, if someone is going to challenge me that this guy has basically reinvented the game and no one can touch him, i’ll kindly bring up his postseason success, or lack thereof.
you’re right, i don’t like watching him (by all accounts, he seems to be a great guy).
is manning a good quarterback? of course.
is he all hall of famer? of course.
is he light years ahead of anyone who ever played the position? of course not.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:15 am
Yeah I wouldnt go so far as to say Manning would have more SB rings if he didnt jump around and “audible” so much presnap… but it is ridiculous at points. I chuckled at the following:
November 16th, 2009 at 11:16 am
Somewhere Doug Williams is smiling now nowing he is as good as PManning.
/jimmy’d
November 16th, 2009 at 11:17 am
LOL!
November 16th, 2009 at 11:18 am
Like Brady.
/fuel to the fire
November 16th, 2009 at 11:20 am
I believe I saw Andrea Kramer “reporting” that Joe Montana or Steve Young had said exactly this before the game.
Anyone else catch that? Those guys have a few rings, they’re decent.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:20 am
LOLOLOL!! that’s pretty good.
the author, however, forgot peyton’s endorsements for nfl sunday ticket and sony.
(i’m fortunate i don’t know first-hand the habits of a north korean traffic cop.)
November 16th, 2009 at 11:21 am
if someone is going to challenge me
people are laughing at you Jimmy, and openly mocking you.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:30 am
Jimmy’s got a compound fracture!!
November 16th, 2009 at 11:31 am
that’s cool. let them mock. the numbers don’t lie. if manning is so head-and-shoulders better than any other quarterback in the league, you’d think he’d have a little more success in the postseason, no? how is that not a reasonable expectation?
i’m no fan of the pats, but if i wanted to win a title, i’d take brady in a heartbeat over manning.
now if i was playing fantasy football (which i don’t), that would be a different story.
sorry if i don’t subscribe to the “peyton manning is a quarterback deity” schtick.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:33 am
Jimmy must have been a Heisman voter back in the day.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:34 am
manning got robbed (seriously).
November 16th, 2009 at 11:36 am
Jimmy, you understand that professional football isn’t played on a PS3 and Manning isn’t controlling all the players on offense an defense right?
November 16th, 2009 at 11:41 am
I’ve been known to attribute wins and losses to QB play maybe more than some people, but even I think Jimmy is taking that a bit far.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:41 am
given the fact i’ve never played a playstation 3, the answer is “yes.”
i also understand if a quarterback is supposed to be so much better and so far superior than any other quarterback, he wouldn’t wouldn’t come up empty so often in the playoffs.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:46 am
for jimmy
November 16th, 2009 at 11:47 am
Jimmy’s “position” is just a pointless rant. He’s disagreeing with not only everyone here, but pretty much every established NFL mind that’s been asked to give a position in the past couple of years.
So if you’re going to argue with him, understand that you’re not arguing with a person who is going to listen.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:48 am
Imagine that. I had no idea my dad posted here!
November 16th, 2009 at 11:51 am
Peyton is maybe slightly better, or in the same class as Brady and Brees. I think all Jimmy is saying is that Peyton is not the be all and end all of QBs right now. He is great sure, but the fact that he flaps his arms at the line doesn’t make him great.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
thank you die eagles.
i’ve already stated manning is a hall of fame quarterback. that’s painfully obvious. he should already have his hall of fame bust created. seriously.
i don’t think it’s unreasonable or crazy to ask if manning is supposed to be the be-all, end-all of quarterbacks, why has he layed so many eggs in the postseason?
in my eyes, great quarterbacks elevate their games when it counts the most. it’s not like manning hasn’t had weapons to work with.
one of the biggest knocks on farve is how he’s underperformed in the playoffs. yet when the same standard is applied to manning, this is all of a sudden heresy? really? why?
if anyone has a closed mind it’s dirtheavy.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
you got me Jimmy. I’m completely closed minded. You, on the other hand, have admitted you don’t even watch the games. That doesn’t make your opinion on the games any less relevant, though, so I’m sorry.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
This is justice for all those tools including some on this site who claim that sports betting is “easy money” ever! Eat shit and think about what you say next time before betting the large spreads not to mention calling betting on football ever “easy.”
/Real Vegas’d
November 16th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
When one leaves the Colts offense about two minutes at any point on the playing field, the odds are against your defense. Give credit to Belichick for having that in mind as well as Jimmy and Tallguy above for pointing that out.
Next time I am sure Belichick knows to have his receiver run half a yard deeper in case of a bobble, as the execution was perfect except for that.
Let’s see if ANYONE on television even brings up this side of the story, and I say all this objectively as a Colts fan mind you!
Also Belichick could have taken a page from last year’s playbook with Matt Cassel that I have heard no one but me mention as I did also last night — the quick kick out of the shotgun formation.
Preferably the kick would be directed towards a sideline too. In that way you don’t risk a bad full punt formation, a return, and prime field position by not converting fourth down whilst gaining ground and catching the Colts offguard for this mere possibility.
I am sure I am hardly the only one on here who could have executed successfully such a strategic kick to minimise risk and maximise field position.