Ballin’: And One Makes Seventeen
NBA March 7th. 2008, 9:06am
Houston 113, Dallas 98, : Dirk didn’t play, and the Rockets rolled to their 17th straight victory on the strength of a third quarter scoring bonanza and T-Mac’s 31. Wouldn’t it be something if the teams with the longest winning streaks this year, Portland and Houston, missed the postseason? The Rockets are winning without Yao, but it has coincided with a lull in the schedule. Four of the next five are at home, bookended by New Orleans and the Lakers. In the middle – three teams with losing records.
Chicago 107, Cleveland 96: Too much partying after the buzzy win in New York? Joakim Noah went for 13 points and a career-high 20 boards, and Ben Gordon and Luol Deng split 46 as the Bulls weathered a 39-point storm from you-know-who.
San Antonio 108, Indiana 97: Tim Duncan was held to six points and attempted just one free throw, but Manu (28) and Eva Longoria’s husband (19) can carry the Spurs, especially against a non-playoff contender like Indiana.
Photo: Icon Sports Media
165 Responses to “Ballin’: And One Makes Seventeen”
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March 7th, 2008 at 9:07 am
cavs sucked last night. lebron sucked in the 2nd half. ugly basketball.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:09 am
17 straight wins and i still see them failing to get past the first round of the playoffs. Yes it is great to see a team go out and win games but i think this team will be a huge failure come playoff time.
they beat the Mavs last night who didnt have the 7 foot german sharp shooter.
i laugh at the lose to the bulls, very sad
March 7th, 2008 at 9:11 am
as nice as the run has been, Houston still doesnt have a good enough PG to match up.
but its really hard to discount a team on a run like this.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:12 am
I’m not sure about the Mavs anymore it seems like the only scorers they have are Dirk and JET. Howard hasn’t been good at all since the Kidd trade.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:15 am
irishmafia, of course they will fail in the 1st round because they don’t have Yao Ming. Against teams like the Pacers, Grizzlies etc… they can win, but win 4 out of 7 against the best teams in the West?
But i don’t see how this team will miss the playoffs with the relatively easy schedule until the end of the season and the recent play of Luis Scola and Carl Landry. Thank god Rick Adelman decided to put Scola playing more minutes then Chuck Hayes. Hayes is the best rebounder but Scola is a tough interior presence and a better player. So i’m going to start the debate that will put all Chuck Hayes Groupies jumping from their seats:
Luis Scola > Chuck Hayes
Yes i said it…
March 7th, 2008 at 9:16 am
@irish: It’s tough to expect any team without their best player to do well in the playoffs. So I wouldn’t call them a failure come playoff time. That being said, I like their chances against any team not named Lakers or Spurs.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:16 am
where did this Carl Landry guy come from
March 7th, 2008 at 9:17 am
terrible game last night…please get the entire team healthy asap
March 7th, 2008 at 9:19 am
I don’t understand why people don’t like Chuck Hayes. He rebounds and makes the shots he takes. I would certainly his type over a Drew Gooden type.
Landry is a beast.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:21 am
Nick are you saying that he’s better than Luis “Dirty” Scola? I like Hayes, he was a great find by JVG and he has a great feel for rebounds but he’s a limited offensive player that doesn’t fit well with Yao because teams can double him and leave Hayes open. Leave Scola open and you will pay…
March 7th, 2008 at 9:21 am
The Rockets are runnin’n'gunnin and we all know where that gets you. Second round exit to the Spurs after the commissioner shafts you.
There I said it
March 7th, 2008 at 9:23 am
Did anyone think Gregg Popovich decided to get ejected before the game even started? Against the Nets he was mad because of lack of effort from his players and the next game he gets ejected… typical Pop… now the Spurs will get to play “Championship” basketball…
March 7th, 2008 at 9:24 am
YYSA – So the Rockets get out of round 1? That would be an accomplishment. Who will they beat?
March 7th, 2008 at 9:25 am
Cavs played back to back road games, they just didn’t have any energy. I can’t believe Mutumbo is still playing, and doing decent.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:26 am
Landry went to Purdue
March 7th, 2008 at 9:26 am
I’m not saying better. I’m saying he’s a useful player on a winning team. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him on San Antonio before it’s all said and done.
Scola is obviously more skilled, but if you look at what they’ve done this season, they’re both shooting the same FG%, and Hayes holds the advantage in every other category except shots taken and FT%.
Scola really needs to improve his rebound rate to take the next step, imo.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:26 am
@CH40S- yeah he wanted a foul on my irish boy Troy Murphy for defending hard against Manu. i agree he is trying to get his team fired up and get them back in the intesity of playoff basketball. I havent heard Robert Horrys name all year, but i bet it will be all over the news come playoff time
March 7th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Landry went to Purdue, thank you for that knowledge
March 7th, 2008 at 9:30 am
After watching the a few Bulls games I was wondering why the hell did Ben Gordon and Luol Deng both turn down 50 million?
March 7th, 2008 at 9:31 am
Nick P, the problem with that FG% is that Chuck Hayes selects his shoots and many times he decides not to shot 17 footers when he’s open. That doesn’t appears on the stats but to anyone who watches Rockets games it’s pretty clear that Hayes can’t be on the court with Yao. Scola has the range and he proved that in Europe in all this years and now in the NBA.
Stats don’t tell the all story, never have and never will…
March 7th, 2008 at 9:33 am
Gordon is an idiot for turning down that skrilla.
deng will get bigger money from either the bulls or another shitty franchise looking to improve.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:33 am
jayjaib49ers, because they bought the thought they deserve more than that. Remember the time where Luol Deng was untradable even to get Kobe Bryant?
With that said, i see the Knicks paying 120M to Ben Gordon…
March 7th, 2008 at 9:35 am
Scola isn’t a great jump shooter, either.
If you look at solely their jump shooting numbers, Scola is 44%, and Hayes is worse at 33%.
The takeaway is that neither player is really a good jump shooter. Hayes realizes this and doesn’t shoot as many (only 20% of his attempts are jump shots), and Scola doesn’t (50% of his shots are jumpers).
March 7th, 2008 at 9:39 am
@TBL- The same team they just beat last night
March 7th, 2008 at 9:39 am
Scola isn’t a great jump shooter?!? Are you kidding me?!? Do you watch him play?!=
Stop with the statistics once in your life… they don’t tell all the story. Watch teams play for once…
I’m starting to question why teams invest so hard in scouting and not go only with stats. Oh wait, that’s because everybody knows that stats don’t tell all the story…
March 7th, 2008 at 9:40 am
The run that the Rockets are on is all the more impressive because they’ve been without Yao for the last few, but I think that reality will sink in sooner rather than later. It’s very, very tough to win in the postseason without a solid big man.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:41 am
@CH4: In a closed gym, I’m sure he’s an amazing jump shooter. In games, he doesn’t make jumpers. Ipso facto, is he still a great jump shooter?
March 7th, 2008 at 9:43 am
Ok Nick P. I will now change my opinion even if i was paid to watch him play in TAU ceramica all this decade… thank God for you Nick P., now i only need to wait the boxscores to reach my office so i can do my job, your knowledge will save me a lot of travels…
March 7th, 2008 at 9:45 am
i dont see what the hype is about Yao when he is healthy. a big body and that is about it. Have you guys seen my boy play against Yao. LMAO, dwight kills Yao and it shouldnt really be like that with the size and muscle that Yao put on since his rookie year. But clearly howard is the best big man in the league. The streak Houston is on makes me question the importance of Yao Ming. He only gets voted to the All Star game because the whole country of China vote for him and vote for T mac as well. Yao is a waste of a big body in my books. thats my opinion but i get the pleasure of watching the best center in the game every night
March 7th, 2008 at 9:48 am
If the NBA were scored as a beauty contest, I’m sure Scola would win, because he has such a pretty jumper — poetry in motion.
But if the object of the NBA is to make baskets, I don’t see how you can call someone a great jump shooter that only finds the bottom of the net 44% of the time. Honestly, what’s so hard about this?
And thanks again for the great “but I saw it with my own eyes” evidence. Always enjoyable.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:48 am
The offense flows much better with Scola on the floor that chuck hayes. Scola can do about 100 more things than chuck. Shane Battier and Rafer have stepped up big time. They also seem to be playing tighter on D. and Mutumbo looks like he is 25
March 7th, 2008 at 9:48 am
@irish: I would agree that Yao is no Shaq (of old) or Dwight Howard, but calling him “a waste of a big body” is a big stretch. For rebounding alone, having a 7-footer in the low post is an incredible advantage, not to mention the scoring option he gives them. My point is that Yao leaves a pretty big vacuum down low, and there’s really no one the Rockets can replace him with.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:48 am
@irish: I agree he’s overrated, but he’s still good.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:51 am
@allonfield- Yao is like Shawn Bradley or even Manute Bol. Big men that dont amount to much. if it wasnt for China, there would be no accolades
Mutombo is producing/ hustling more than Yao and he is almost 45 for christ sake
March 7th, 2008 at 9:51 am
irish…couldnt agree more.
only duncan is still the best big man, but howard is a close 2.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:52 am
Jump Shot Percentages:
Scola 44%, LeBron James 39%, Kobe Bryant 46%, Ray Allen 50%, Dirk Nowitzki 49%, TD 39%.
I rest my case…
March 7th, 2008 at 9:52 am
Luis Scola is 14th in the league in FG % at 53%.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:53 am
Oh, Nick was talking about jump shot %? Nevermind.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:54 am
The Chicago Bulls only 1 game out of the final playoff spot in the East. The Bulls have yet to win 3 straight games and have only won two straight four times this year. This year’s East is the worst conference ever in the history of the NBA and probably of all sports.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:54 am
Lebron doesnt make half of his shots. Should he cut that part of his game out? Scola can make a jumper so he helps give Yao space.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:55 am
Bosh dominated Howard last time around. But that doesn’t mean you call him best big man.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:56 am
Yao Ming 22 PPG and 10 RPG
Dwight Howard 21 PPG and 14 RPG
Look, I dont profess to know alot about basketball. But those stats look pretty darn similar. Yet it seems like I’m being told that Yao is as bad as Shawn Bradley.
Someone please tell me what I am missing here.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:56 am
mldatx- that is true. but as we know, the sun shines on you some days as well
March 7th, 2008 at 9:56 am
Nick…you support your pro-lebrizzy arguments by saying that it doesnt matter how he scores, a point is a point, but you say scola cant hit jumpers is a negative quality when he’s shooting 53%? i dont understand.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:58 am
i said it was my opinion that Yao ming is a waste of a big body and i compare him to Shawn Bradley. there was no need for me to produce stats because that is my opinion. you guys can hate on dwight howard but god forbid i hate on a big man lol
March 7th, 2008 at 9:58 am
Gonzo…watch a Magic game and the only guys from the other team you see driving the lane with Dwight in there are guys like LeBron and Kobe…the rest dont even try.
Then watch how many guys have savagely dunked right over Yao, thats the difference.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:58 am
Let’s sort some things out, CH4.
1. Lebron is not a great jump shooter, and I’ve never said he was. I think we can all agree on that, as the 39% would attest.
2. Scola is a better jump shooter than Lebron.
3. Being a better jump shooter than someone who is a not-good jump shooter makes Scola a great jump shooter? Not sure if I’m ready to make that leap of faith.
So since David Eckstein hits better than Adam Everett, that makes David Eckstein a great hitter? Help me out here.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:58 am
@irish: I understand your point, but I can’t believe you just made those comparisons. Yao was averaging 22 and 10 this season before he went down. In his best season (91-92!), Mutombo averaged 16 points and 12 boards, and this year he’s at 1 and 3. Bradley’s best season was 14 and 8. Bol’s best year was 3 and 6. I get that you’re not a Yao fan, but those comparisons are ridiculous.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:00 am
@spence: I’ve said a point is a point to defend people that think a dunk is worth less than a certain someone’s fade away. Lebron’s biggest weakness as a player is that he falls in love with his jumper.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:01 am
Again, who is “hating” on Dwight Howard?
I would take him a heartbeat over Yao but that doesn’t mean Yao sucks. Overrated is as fair analysis though.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:01 am
my opinion is ridiculous yes. sometimes it seems that in your eyes. But most of you guys on here have never seen a Magic game because they arent televised like Miami, Clev, CHi, PHO, DALl catch my drift
March 7th, 2008 at 10:01 am
I was at the Bulls-Cavs game last night and here is what stood out:
-Lebron looked like he could care less, was taking wild shots, going 1 on 3 and got ripped 3 times in the first half.
-Ben Wallace got destroyed by Noah. Wallace brought no energy and Noah would out jump and out hustle him to every board.
-Gooden’s youthfulness showed last night, he was a step or two quicker than Joe Smith all night.
-Delonte West stunk. There was no dribble penetration last night.
The one time I get to see the Cavs play all year they shit the bed. Oh yeah, it was my first game at the United Center, the loudest it got all night was for the Dunkin’ Donuts race on the jumbotron between quarters 3 and 4. Worst place I have seen a game in a long time.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:04 am
The Bulls are what 25-36, how excited to you expect their fans to get?
March 7th, 2008 at 10:04 am
I’m really sick of this discounting of what the Rockets have done. They’ve won their last 8 games by an average 18 points.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:04 am
Can someone tell me why the most dominant driving player in the NBA history has taken 36 three pointers in the last 5 games? That’s insane.
Also, can someone tell me why the most “unselfish” player in the league is taking 27 shots a game since the trade?
His scoring has been ridiculous – but does anyone else think it’s a detriment to this team’s confidence. They’re not going anywhere in the playoffs playing like this. It’s as much a one-man-show has ever before.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:04 am
bigtuna…pretty accurate assessment. lebron played like a punk bitch in the 2nd half. no assists until 10 minutes left in the 4th quarter? what the fuck was that?
wallace just didnt give a shit, neither did wally or delonte. and it was clear that gooden, deng and gordon were playing really well. it sucked.
looks like they were all hungover from partying…except varejao, he was the only dude playing hard.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:04 am
Irish, no one is hating on Dwight Howard. He’s a beast. He’s awesome.
We get it. I don’t understand why Howard has to be brought up in every basketball conversation on this board.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:05 am
cursed…no, no, yes.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:06 am
THE ONLY TWO TEAMS HOUSTON HAS BEAT THAT HAVE BEEN DECENT DURING THIS WIN STREAK IS CLEVELAND TWICE AND THE MAVS ADN DENVER
PLEASE TELL ME WHAT IS SO SPECIAL ABOUT BEATING .300 % TEAMS
March 7th, 2008 at 10:06 am
The United Center is a morgue. What a terrible arena. I’ve been there for many a Big 10 tournament – it’s location sucks and it’s way too big. And I was forced to watch Big 10 basketball. Awful
March 7th, 2008 at 10:07 am
@gonzo- he isnt. you would know that if you were on here daily
March 7th, 2008 at 10:08 am
@gonzo- also i was bringing up the importance of Yao ming in my opinion. read the comments before you toss rocks
March 7th, 2008 at 10:09 am
@cursed: In the starting lineup now are Devin Brown and Wallace, two guys who don’t usually look to shoot. Therefore, in the 1st and 3rd quarters, Lebron shoots a bit more than usual, considering the Black Hole (Larry) and his 10+ shot attempts a game aren’t on the court anymore.
Lebron has also shot even more in the last few games because Z has been out.
I think when Boobie and Sasha get back (if they ever do), one of them will push Devin back to the bench, hopefully Sasha.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:09 am
Nick P, i’m only wonder why NBA teams don’t run their scouting departament using only stats from 82games and sites like that. Why did they keep going to games overseas and keep asking for tickets in lousy seats only to watch players running schemes and defensive sets. They don’t need that, they only need stats. Stats tell the story, so…
And if stats tell the story, and if Scola is not a good jump shooter (44% ) what that makes Tim Duncan with 39%?!? A horrible jump shooter?!? Thanks once again for your drop of knowledge. The rest of the world of basketball are worlds behind your evaluation method Nick, i’m only wondering why are you not working in a NBA franchise with your “ahead of time” method to evaluate players….
Oh well…everybody knows the answer to that question…
March 7th, 2008 at 10:09 am
i think thats what you meant to say.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:11 am
yeah spencer and to tell the rocket fans i forgot to add Golden State to that list. So 4 teams that were good out of 17 games. But its special
March 7th, 2008 at 10:11 am
So Nick P (you took the bait)…why in the world was Kobe getting ripped for taking 27 shots a game playing with way, way less talent than the Cavs have now.
Double standard. (He was also first team all-nba defender). And that Lakers team won 44 games in a much tougher conference than what the Cavs are about to win 47 games.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:12 am
check that..45 wins (for the Lakers that year)
March 7th, 2008 at 10:13 am
@cursed: I hoped you were setting me up, so I could point out that Lebron is making more of those same shots and has continued to dole out the assists, get more net possessions, et al.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:14 am
Nick, he shot so much last night because he was trying to get 50 again. I thought that was pretty obvious. He’s been watching all this Kobe/LeBron stuff on ESPN – and he’s obviously felt the need to prove it on the floor.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:14 am
I read your entire argument. you said he’s just a “big body” yet he scores 22 points a game and get 10 boards. That’s not chopped liver.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:15 am
@cursed: The Tougher Conference Bias is in large part a myth. It’s worth +/- 2 games in the most extreme years of disparity, not 10+ as some might believe.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:15 am
And you opened the door right up for me to point out that the Lakers won 45 games…while this Cavs team will win roughly 47 or 48, in a much worse conference, while having way, way more talent around him than Kobe did.
So what again do those “stats” mean?
March 7th, 2008 at 10:17 am
Gonzo…22/10 isnt chopped liver, but he doesnt have that much of an impact on the games. sure the numbers are nice, but dwights 21 ppg usually is bolstered by the other big man getting a lot fewer points and guys not driving into the lane to get easy buckets. yao gets 22 ppg, but teams can also get in close and get relatively easy buckets.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:18 am
buckets.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:18 am
@CH4: Sorry if I’m not one to dole out accolades for players as easily as you. Is he an average jump shooter? Probably. I don’t see why I should say he’s great or good. You watch games, I’m guessing. The problem, since you seem to be a fan of Scola, is that for every 100 shots he takes, you remember vividly the 44 he makes…while the 56 that clank you glaze over. Stats can help fill in the gap for the things we can’t (or won’t) remember.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:20 am
gonzo please dont try and tell me that Yao ming is a better center. He is chopped liver in my book, but like i said twice already before this, i watch Dwigth every night and people in the league know he is the best big man in the NBA. there is no player in the NBA that wouldnt want to have him on there team. No injury problems every year, no worries. Just dunks and boards and working on the post game
March 7th, 2008 at 10:20 am
OK, so his defense is suspect. thanks for the explanation Spencer.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:21 am
Nick…you cant rely on stats as much in basketball as you can in baseball. they tell a story, but not that much. shane battier is a great player, but he doesnt fill up a stat sheet, so does that mean he sucks? zach randolph is a great statistical player, but why wont 29 other teams want him?
plus its not baseball, it’s not one on one, so the probabilities that stats project are murky.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:21 am
@Cursed: Yeah they’ll win 47 or 48 in a year when they went 0-7 sans Lebron.
That’s the major argument you can put forth if you want to give the MVP to Chris Paul. Staying on the court for 80-82 games is extremely valuable, and this year Lebron hasn’t been able to do it.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:22 am
“Toughest Conference Myth?” How about this – if the Cavaliers had been in the Western Conference the last two seasons, LeBron would have zero playoff series victories and Kobe would have gotten to the NBA finals.
I’m pretty confident many knowledgeable basketball pundits feel the same as be. I don’t think that’s a myth at all.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:23 am
I’m glad to know that a 44% as a jump shooting percentage is bad… so LBJ is a horrific jump shooter. How can the best overall offensive player be so horrible in some crucial aspect of the game?
This is so easy to counter….
March 7th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Look Irish. You’re my caucasian. I’m gonna drop it.
Are we Coo-De-La ?
March 7th, 2008 at 10:24 am
Actually Nick P (I’ll swing at that huge softball you just threw me)..that’s your argument for AV winning the MVP. Cavaliers are .500 without him and .750 with him.
AV = MVP
March 7th, 2008 at 10:24 am
@Nick- Playing Varejao and Wallace together for 25 minutes a game is offensive death.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:24 am
@spence: We’re on the same page. We are. Zach Randolph isn’t that good, and the stats do back that up. He puts up a lot of shots at low %’s for a big money. That’s not helping a team win. Bad A/TO guy too.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:24 am
of course gonzo but please watch a couple Magic games okay. thats all i ask
March 7th, 2008 at 10:26 am
cursed, it’s a myth if you are in the other end of the stick, trying to force people to believe that playing 4 games against teams of the middle of the pack in the West (Rockets, Suns, Mavs, Warriors, Nuggets, Blazers or Kings) is the same than playing 4 times against middle of the pack teams in the East (Wizards, 76ers, Nets, Bulls or Hawks)…
March 7th, 2008 at 10:26 am
AV…Alexander Volkov? Dude…get out of 1986. He hasn’t played for the Hawks in years.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:26 am
@Cursed: That’s really a softball? So AV adds a net winning percentage of .250? That is good, don’t get me wrong, but:
Cavs are .000 without Lebron.
Cavs are something greater than .600 with him, for a net winning percentage of .600+
March 7th, 2008 at 10:27 am
yea, the West is obscene, dont know how you can call that a myth. when a 50 win team is going to miss the playoffs in the West and a team significantly under .500 is going to get in in the East, there’s a disparity.
but that doesn’t discout how good an Eastern team actually is, it just means the East has far less good teams than the West, that’s it. theres no more significance than that.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:27 am
I beg your pardon, CH40S. The Hawks are not middle of the pack in the east. We are clearly the bottom of the barrel.
Now I feel better.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:28 am
@CH4: How can one player be so horrible at a crucial aspect of the game, and still be considered a great player?
I don’t know, ask Shaq and Wilt how good they were at FT%.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:28 am
Alexander Volkov reference!! Not to be confused with the “Russian Nightmare” Nikita Koloff.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:29 am
Or Nikolai Volkov.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:30 am
17 is legal in Texas
http://thedreamshake.blogspot.com/2008/03/rocketsmavs-17-is-legal-in-texas.html
March 7th, 2008 at 10:30 am
Nick…personally, i still dont like the use of stats when talking about basketball. Big Al Jefferson is a great statistical player (better example than Z-Bo) but the stats dont show he’s a defensive sieve or that he’s a smart player that uses craftiness to be effective rather than power like Dwight Howard.
a statistical argument is a house of cards when there are so many variables that impact them.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:31 am
Even the Kings (11th) in the West will be a playoff team in the East… if that’s a myth, then my definition of myth is wrong. You live and “learn”…
March 7th, 2008 at 10:31 am
@cursed: 58 games in the NBA are common + top 4 East teams compare favorably to top 4 West teams + bottom 3-4 East teams compare favorable to bottom 3-4 west teams = about 72 “common” games.
The difference between East/West is 8-10 games. So if your winning percentage drops 20% (a pretty huge drop), then you’re looking at 2 wins.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:32 am
Nick P…LeBron’s 6 game sample size is nowhere near as large as AV’s. But you know knew that.
It’s pretty clear that over the long run of the season, AV’s been pretty valuable to the Cavaliers success (in fact, AV played one of his worst games last night and the Cavs lost…but the King played one of his ballhogging best, and they lost).
AV is more valuable. One game sample to prove it.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:33 am
spencer096, to back up your example, why don’t you use the stats of Al Jefferson in Boston and those of KG this year. How can a team improve so much when Al and KG had stats so similar, if stats tell all the story? The difference is Ray Allen? Oh yeah, keep believing…maybe if you try very hard someday it will become the truth…
March 7th, 2008 at 10:33 am
@cursed: Again, if you thought last night’s game was one of Lebron’s best, you haven’t seen much of Lebron, eh?
March 7th, 2008 at 10:34 am
Hey Nick since when 24 + 24 = 58?
March 7th, 2008 at 10:35 am
Yes.. Nikolai Volkov. What a great pull. Anyone remember Abdullah the Butcher? He was pretty hardcore.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:35 am
One of his best scoring games.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:35 am
Now you don’t only ignore logic and stats, but ignore math also? But maybe math doesn’t tell all the story, and you can change it so you can prove your point also. Math is for pussies…
March 7th, 2008 at 10:40 am
What are you talking about CH4?
30 teams, so the Cavs play the other 29 times TWICE = 58?
March 7th, 2008 at 10:41 am
29 teams* TWICE sorry
March 7th, 2008 at 10:43 am
I was only pulling a “nick papageorgio” and manipulating something to prove my point. This disease really spreads by message boards…
March 7th, 2008 at 10:43 am
Why is everyone so hostile? Maybe we should have a debate about who’s better: Kobe, or Lebron? That should settle things down a bit.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:44 am
Or you just flubbed up big time, and won’t admit it? Got you.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:45 am
@atl: I like where your head is. Kobe > Jordan
March 7th, 2008 at 10:45 am
Pulling a “nick papageorgio” is imperative that you don’t admit anything because if you don’t share my math skills is because you’re wrong and that’s not a debate!!!
March 7th, 2008 at 10:46 am
@CH4: I share your math skills. 24 + 24 doesn’t equal 58; I’m just trying to understand why you think adding those two numbers together adds anything to the discussion.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:47 am
who would win in a fight, anthony mason or charles oakley?
March 7th, 2008 at 10:49 am
@spence: Oakley wouldn’t even bother getting out of bed to fight Mason.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Charles Oakley, 1st round TKO.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Oakley. Mason loses points for getting that shit shaved into his hair all the time and banging 14 year olds.
Wait…maybe that earns him points…
March 7th, 2008 at 10:50 am
I’m going Oakley.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:50 am
Things you should learn today listening to Nick P.
1) TD is a horrible jump shooter
2) Watching games is for pussies, stats tell all the story.
3) The Western Conference being far superior is only a myth (maybe created by ESPN?!?)
4) You can suck big time at a crucial part of the offensive game and still be considered the GREATEST OFFENSIVE PLAYER in the game.
Thank you Ni (these schtick of using half nick is cool).
March 7th, 2008 at 10:51 am
who would win in a fight,Reggie Miller or Cheryl Miller
March 7th, 2008 at 10:52 am
Oakley/Mason reminds me. The Knicks teams of the mid/late-90s had to be the meanest and most insane group of players, right?
Mason (mean)
Oakley (mean as hell)
Sprewell (insane)
Starks (clinically imbalanced)
Terry Cummings (mean)
Chris Childs (mean)
Kurt Thomas (mean)
I could go on…
March 7th, 2008 at 10:53 am
cheryl miller and its not even close. she has legs like a minotaur.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:54 am
mason’s son plays for ST johns. he isnt as smooth as his pops
March 7th, 2008 at 10:54 am
atlanta…interesting. id say the jail blazers of the early 2000’s were right there too. but damn were those knicks mean. plus they had ewing who, while not a mean bastard, played with some serious aggression.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:55 am
And i still can’t believe that all of this happened because i did the unthinkable comparison of Luis Scola and Chuck Hayes. I should know by now that comparing these 2 players is the origin of big debates on message boards…
March 7th, 2008 at 10:55 am
@CH4:
Things you learn from CH4
1. He has a huge man-crush on me, as most do.
2. I never said TD was a horrible jump shooter, just that Scola wasn’t a good one, just average-ish.
3. Wilt was the greatest offensive player in the game. He was historically bad at shooting FTs, ergo you can still be the greatest offensive player in the game and be bad at something. Not a difficult concept. Considering that at all times, someone HAS to be the greatest, right? Jordan was always the best in his day, but he couldn’t shoot 3s. So now you’re telling me great players can’t have weaknesses? Interesting.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:56 am
spencer096, those Knicks had Allan Houston, probably one of the softest players to ever play the game, so that balanced pretty well…
March 7th, 2008 at 10:56 am
@Nick–most men have crushes on you? Weird.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:56 am
Nick I am with you stats do matter. But with baseball stats you have isolated incidents. The batter would theory hit exactly the same if it was only the pitcher out of the mound pitching and no players in the field. In basketball a jump shooter would shot very differently if there were no defenders on the court. This is the basis of some of the stat problems. Rate and usage stats are coming along. If you want a good all in number use PER. Since you gravitate towards 82games check the 5 man unit stats and see how the first offense as a whole plays when Scola is in compared to Hayes
March 7th, 2008 at 10:57 am
@atl: such is life in Nick’s world.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:57 am
Nick P, how original. Don’t forget to try to tomorrow…
BTW, if you say Scola is average-ish with 44% jump shooting, so TD wity 39% is what? Good? Great? Terrible? Bad? Or in this case stats doesn’t tell the story? The Vegas line to your next contradiction was 20 seconds, so….
March 7th, 2008 at 10:58 am
@Spencer–I thought about the JailBlazers too, but they were more just criminals. The Knicks were just crazy and/or mean.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:59 am
Nick P. you’re not my type, i feel atracted to smart people and….women…
March 7th, 2008 at 11:00 am
HeyDoes anyone remember when Chris Childs punched KOBE in the face.
March 7th, 2008 at 11:00 am
Anyone watching Tim Duncan would say without question his weakness is shooting jumpers. Great low-post player, great rebounder, good passing big-man, great at finding players out of the double team, but every player has weaknesses; is this hard?
March 7th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Oh, and the Knicks had leg-grabber Jeff Van Gundy. How could I forget?
March 7th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Nick/CH4OS – Chris Childs punched Kobe in the face. Therefore:
Chris Childs > Kobe
Chris Childs > Tyson
March 7th, 2008 at 11:01 am
atlanta…what about the late 80’s Pistons?
CH4OS…how the hell did Allan Houston live in that environment? he must have just sat quietly by his locker thinking to himself, “how the hell did i get here? im surrounded by fucking lunatics.”
March 7th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Nick P, an honest question (as opposed to the many dishonest ones I post on a daily basis).
Still feel Dallas is coming out of the West? Dirk’s absence notwithstanding..they were a mess last night, again.
March 7th, 2008 at 11:02 am
How funny that stat SM… funny also the fact that the only constant in the top 10 best 5 of the Rockets is not Yao Ming nor T-Mac, but….Luis Scola… what a surprise that Nick didn’t use this stat… (rolling eyes…)
March 7th, 2008 at 11:04 am
spencer096, Allan Houston should have been hidden in some closet with Chris Dudley…
March 7th, 2008 at 11:04 am
@Spencer–I actually thought about them too (it’s scary how much I actually thought this out. And I actually have real work to do!), and they were especially mean. But not really insane…Rodman, we came to find out later, was a complete wack job, and Laimbeer was bordering on insane, but was more or less just an ass. But you’re right, they probably get the award for meanest team of all time. Knicks are still crazier, though, in my opinion.
March 7th, 2008 at 11:04 am
And to think the only coach that could get Latrell Sprewell under control was Jeff Van Gundy and his tiny voice…
March 7th, 2008 at 11:04 am
@cursed: An honest answer — I think they’re only 6 games in with Kidd and will get better. If the Lakers don’t have a healthy Bynum back, I’m still leaning towards the Mavs, upon further notice. I do think they’ll learn to play together in time.
Avery, though, is one overrated coach. How he continues to play Stackhouse is baffling.
March 7th, 2008 at 11:07 am
There’s a simple reason why PER is less effective and why I seldom use it: it rewards players just for taking more shots, regardless of efficiency.
And before you call me whatever you’re going to call me anyway, just note if I truly believed in PER, I would be citing it daily, because Lebron’s is 30, and Kobe’s is 24. Since I don’t necessarily believe it’s that useful, I don’t use it for any players.
March 7th, 2008 at 11:09 am
Jordan couldn’t shoot threes? You guys come up with some good stuff!
March 7th, 2008 at 11:09 am
Nick, Kidd has actually shot the ball pretty well. But there’s just something missing there. For some reason, I just don’t see them really challenging the Lakers. But I’ve been labeled a Lakers apologist before, so take that for what it’s worth.
By the way, I know the transitions aren’t the same, but if Dallas gets a bunch of games to make things work, the Lakers deserve infinite amount of credit for inserting Gasol (allbeit losing Bynum) and having it work instantly. Kobe gets credit for this (of course!)
March 7th, 2008 at 11:10 am
CH4OS…what are you talking about, Jeff Van Gundy has a tremendously powerful baritone inspiring awe and fear into his underlings.
atlanta…the knicks might be crazier in terms of numbers, but id give the nod to those pistons for pure craziness. quality > quantity.
March 7th, 2008 at 11:15 am
Van Gundy > P. J. Carlesiomo
March 7th, 2008 at 11:15 am
@cursed: Sure, I’ll give them credit. There is one small difference, in that LAL gave up nothing from the rotation to get Gasol, whilst the Mavs gave up key pieces of their rotation. Hence the delay.
March 7th, 2008 at 11:17 am
The Lakers gave up nothing? Does that mean you’re willing to admit that Kwame Brown = nothing? I think you’re being generous. I’d like to see LeBron play with Kwame, just for pure comedy.
March 7th, 2008 at 11:17 am
@cursed, Charles Barkley said on TNT overtime the same thing about the “transition period” after the trades and that he doesn’t get why in Phoenix people is saying that’s too early to gel but then the Lakers quickly adapt Gasol.
Charles also said that Kobe deserves credit, but i don’t believe it. Of course i’m dumb to try to think that watching someone play since he was 17 is going to help me evaluate someone, but IMO Gasol is the perfect fit to the triangle offense and that’s why he adapted quickly. In FC Barcelone they played the triangle offense sets some times and that were plays designed to feed Gasol, so he was used to play in the triangle.
If you want to give credit, give to Phil Jackson, but i don’t see why you can’t compare the transition period of a PG and a PF.
March 7th, 2008 at 11:19 am
*can compare
March 7th, 2008 at 11:20 am
I’d be more confident at this point in a Mavs pick if Stackhouse had been included in that trade.
March 7th, 2008 at 11:20 am
stan van gundy > jeff van gundy
March 7th, 2008 at 11:23 am
Memphis Tigers Backcourt > orlando Magic Backcourt
Dwight Howard > memphis tigers
March 7th, 2008 at 11:24 am
@Irish – You let me know when Stan latches onto Kevin Garnett’s leg and then we’ll talk.
March 7th, 2008 at 11:26 am
atlanta…when jeff van gundy becomes the most prominent male pornstar of all time, THEN we can talk.
March 7th, 2008 at 11:27 am
Anyone else think Bill Simmons got carried away with the praise of JVG/Vanilla Breen/Mark Jackson. I like the trio, but Breen is no Marv Albert. How is Albert not doing finals games? How? Why?
Albert and Fratello were a classic pair – very sarcastic, and Albert doesn’t undersell great plays. Anyone remember Wade’s unreal move in the NBA finals two years ago? Of course you don’t, b/c Mike Breen Had the call. If Marv is doing that game, it’s one of the iconic moves in the history of basketball.
Announcers make a difference.
March 7th, 2008 at 11:27 am
Touche, Spencer…touche.
March 7th, 2008 at 11:29 am
@Cursed–I thought he went a little overboard, but I do think they’re a great trio. I also agree, though, that no one beats Marv Albert, that back-biting panty-wearer. But then again, aren’t we all back-biting panty-wearers?
March 7th, 2008 at 11:29 am
@cursed: Simmons gets carried away with everything. The man has become a hack.
March 7th, 2008 at 11:40 am
cursed – link? hadn’t read that, but im interested
March 7th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080305
Now, I don’t think Simmons is a hack, I just think his style has been pirated by so many bloggers that his premise has become pedestrian and a little turgid. I think he knows his basketball (even though I rarely agree with his takes).