Peter Gammons on Kyle Farnsworth Throwing Behind Manny: “AAA pitchers … Please.”
Baseball, Boston vs. New York, ESPN, Media Gossip/Musings April 18th. 2008, 12:54pmOur great commenter Gonzo saw this on ESPN last night and just uploaded it over at Red Lasso. ESPN’s Peter Gammons, an occasional Boston homer, reacted thusly to Kyle Farnsworth of the Yankees throwing behind Manny Ramirez of the Red Sox: “AAA pitchers … I mean, please.” The only fair thing to do? Wake up The Baseball Friend (a Yanks fan) and get his reaction. He gets worked up after the jump.
THE BASEBALL FRIEND: First of all, let’s call Manny what he is. He is one of the 10 greatest right-handed hitters of all time. Possibly top five. That being said, he is also a no-class, show-boating, homer-watching embarrassment to the game and he is universally-loathed throughout the sport for the way he carries himself on the field. Please spare me the “Manny being Manny,” shit, ok? You’re a grown-up. Respect the game. Just because you’re also an idiot savant doesn’t give you the right to act that way on the field.
And for all of you Sox fans (I’m looking at YOU, Gammons, you unbelievable whiner who can’t even be professional enough to keep your blatant homerism to yourself for three seconds on camera,) bitching and moaning this morning, let me say this about that:
1. See above
2. The game has been played like this for years. A guy gets a little too comfortable in the box…you make him uncomfortable.
3. Even if Farnsworth DID hit him, that would still put the Yankees about 572 steps behind the Sox in terms of hitting the other team’s superstar. The way the Sox have used Derek Jeter for target practice over the past 10+ years has been disgraceful.
Just know that these aren’t the placid, zipped up, professional-to-a-fault Joe Torre Yanks anymore, and quite frankly, I’m ecstatic. Everyone should know that they’re on notice. Viva Girardi!
100 Responses to “Peter Gammons on Kyle Farnsworth Throwing Behind Manny: “AAA pitchers … Please.””
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April 18th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Sorry, but you don’t throw at someone’s head. Ever.
April 18th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Who cares, it’s just the Red Sox and Yankees
April 18th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
+1,000 - That’s one of the single best pieces of writing I’ve seen here, even though I still have a man-crush on ManRam from his Tribe days.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Farnsworth has no control, he can never throw it where he wants to
April 18th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Take a chill pill, TBF.
The entire crux of the argument is that he threw at Manny’s head. That’s never acceptable under any circumstances.
I was at an Indians game two days ago when Manny got hit. I think he had forgotten he was hit by the time he got to 1st. He’s as happy go lucky as they come. Who gives a shit if he watches his homers?
April 18th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
Clearly, it is what it is.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
I saw this pitch live. As the YES announcers correctly pointed out, the problem is not that he threw at him, or that he threw behind him. The problem is that the ball was about three inches away from his head. As in, career/life threatening.
I have no problem with a pitcher throwing at somebody - just keep it between the waist and the chest. And if you don’t have that kind of aim, then you shouldn’t be pitching in the big leagues to begin with.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Which is?
April 18th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
fixed.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
I agree that sending a message is very important, but throwing at the head isn’t.
That part about Manny being no-class, was awesome.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
A Yankee fan calling a Red Sox fan a whiner? Im shocked.
If anyone has ever watched Farnsworth over the years with Braves, Cubs, you would know he couldnt hit water if he fell out of freakin boat (nod to Bull Durham)
I only hope there is more of this, since this Midwest guy cant get enough of the Yankees and BoSox.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
This shit happens once a week. Why is Gammons so fed up about THIS instance? Because he’s a Boston fan. Sure, he’s a great reporter.
But I can’t seperate his love for baseball for his love for the Sox. and I don’t think he can either.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
Farnsworth is worthless. He can’t get anyone out and the fans already hate him so he’ll throw at Manny’s head to actually hear himself being cheered for a change. I really never understood why players like Manny are bad for the game. It gives the game personality. Everyone needs to stop being a vagina and getting their feelings hurt.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
If pitchers don’t like him showboating, quit throwing him meatballs.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Gonzo = great ? lol i may take a break if Orlando wins
April 18th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Girardi was probably hoping Farnsworth would be suspended.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Yankees fans, help me out. After Mussina throws a pitch, he does a little giddy-up. Has he always done that? It looks like a horse with a broken leg that doesn’t want to be sent to the glue factory.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
It’s not about how good Farnsworth is or isn’t. Manny was too comfortable in the box and had to get moved. And again, the LAST thing anyone should complain about is the Yanks hitting a Red Sox player. I’ll be back in a few with the numbers on how many times Jeter has been hit by the Sox in his career…
April 18th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
I think anyone who has watched Farnsworth knows that he is a horrible pitcher. I was just suprised that Gammons took a shot at him by calling him a AAA pitcher when Gammons is one of the most recognizable baseball people at ESPN.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
@Bruce Wayne: If the personality is a douche, then I would rather keep it boring.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
And to NP, whose comments I always enjoy…
Look, Manny is great. He hammers pitches that AREN’T meatballs. I don’t begrudge him hitting the homers. I just think he’s classless for how he acts when he does.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
Baseball Friend, how about addressing the fact that the pitch was thrown at his head?
April 18th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
@TBF: So hit him in the thigh; never shoud be a need to throw at a guy’s face.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
He threw it behind him. He was trying to rattle him, not hurt him. Again, it’s part of the game…
April 18th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Back in Starbucks and listening to Mike & the Mad Dog … they have not mentioned the head-hunting. They mentioned the pitch, but really haven’t gone after Farnsworth and mentioned a suspension or anything.
But they are talking about Santana vs. Hamels tonight, so much so that I may even watch it.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
But, if Ramirez reacts incorrectly and backs up that’s Tony Conigliaro all over again. Is that still “part of the game”?
April 18th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
It’s as much a part of the game as watching your homers for 10 seconds as you leisurely walk to first base. Farnsworth was sticking up for his team by sending a message.
Gammons KNOWS this, which is why it was so amazingly unprofessional for him to react the way he did on camera.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
As a Yankee fan, all I have to say is…I really hope Manny is in pinstripes next year.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
TBL, are you at Starbucks to meet a blind date?
TBL? Are you TBL?
No.
Coffee for TBL. TBL? Coffee for TBL.
Shit.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
On a related note, this whole Beckett vs. Wang argument these 2 radio guys are having is insane. There is absolutely no comparison: Wang is not a legit No. 1 and he can’t pitch on the road.
Josh Beckett is a certifiable No. 1 and a postseason monster.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
My wife has commented once here (political thread), but she may see that and chime in. Sidenote: We met on the night of Aaron Boone’s game 7 homer.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
You never, ever, throw above the shoulders. Brushing guys back and hitting guys is part of the game, but going at the head is not. Chamberlin did the same thing last year (I think Youkalis was batting?). I hope Jeter gets one in the ribs in his next AB against the Sox.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
These two points seem to contradict themselves. Throw at Manny because he’s comfortable at the plate. But God forbid if they throw at Jeter.
I’m a Sox fan living in NJ. I was watching the game live on YES and I mentioned to my wife that I couldn’t believe I actually agreed with the YES announcers that the Yankees should be brushing him back, but not at his head.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
We all know if he was trying to hit Manny in the head, the ball would have bounced in the dirt.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Last night’s Office > Last week’s Office
April 18th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Last night’s 30 Rock >>> last night’s The Office
April 18th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Last night’s Office > Last week’s Office
No way dude. the dinner party is easily the best of this year. last night’s episode was kinda lame.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
Isn’t the pitch from last night on Manny just a direct resonse to the pitch that hit ARod the night before? And that pitch was just as clearly intentional and got him pretty close to the head region in the shoulder. Not sure either is a huge deal, but i think that was what the resposne was to. (well that and the homers obviously.)
April 18th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
First off TBF…You have Alex Rodriguez on your team, so lets throw classy displays of baseball completely out the window…Yankee class is the most over blown bullshit it makes me sick..Paul O’Neill and his crying and antics…A-Rod and is mitt slapping and HA!ing and posing…Roger Clemen’s Head hunting the list goes on and on…For 8 years your team has made a conscious decision not to do anything to Manny not even brush him back…now a crap relief pitcher headhunts and its FINALLY…how about Hughes doing this? Mussina? Kennedy? The Great Rivera…I hate the Red Sox and I hate the Yankees but that was the equivilent of taking the 12th man off the bench to start a fight with the best center on the other team…Its bush league just like your team and your fanbase…now I have to puke for defending Boston.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Last night’s was good, but I think the dinner party one is close to top 10 ever material.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Melrose Place reruns > The Office
/TBL
April 18th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
fixed
April 18th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
I love that Peter Gammons can criticize the Yankees for throwing at Manny’s head, but it’s ok if Varitek illegally blocks the plate every single time there’s a runner coming? I know, not the same thing, but I have a big problem when an obvious Sox fan, who should be neutral when working for ESPN in commenting roles, is over-critical of the Yankees. The Yankees aren’t perfect, but Gammons seems to go overboard whenever they do something wrong. He needs to reel it in.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Dwight was fantastic last night. I really want to be friends with him. I thought the season opener was good; last night was as well.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
I have no problem with sending a message but not if it means throwing at a guy’s head. So anytime a guy watches a homer against the Yanks you throw at his head?
April 18th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Throwing at someone’s head is where the whole term knock down or brush back came from in baseball. I am not really sure why people are complaining. He threw at him. He didn’t hit him. He wants many to back off of the plate so he can throw outside. I didn’t know it was illegal to throw the ball.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
He didn’t hit him, move on
April 18th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
‘The way the Sox have used Derek Jeter for target practice over the past 10+ years has been disgraceful.’
I’m confused- you said it was part of the game, so how is it disgraceful?
Unless you meant Torre’s tolerence for it was disgraceful- then I fully agree.
I am a HUGE Sox fan, and it takes great pain for me to love Manny. I CANNOT STAND his looks of lethargy and pimping his homeruns (or sometimes doubles). But GOOD LORD can that man straight MASH.
I love contract years for Manny (this year, next, AND the year after!)
April 18th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Dwight was fantastic last night. I really want to workout with him. I thought the season opener was good; last night was as well.
/fixed
April 18th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Last night’s 30 Rock was much better than The Office. While 30 Rock has gotten funnier over time, The Office seems to be losing some of it’s appeal. The jokes are starting to repeat themselves and the writers seem to be grasping for content on The Office.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
This isn’t a semantical argument, baseball friend. We all agree: hitting a guy or throwing inside is fine. Just don’t throw at his goddam head. Why is this so hard for you to see? Head=potential longterm damage. Everywhere else=man, that stings…I promised myself I wouldn’t cry.
/is that so hard to understand guy
April 18th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
@Maxwell
Even Manny knew that pitch was in response to A-Rod being hit the night before. You knew Mussina wouldn’t throw at him, he doesn’t throw at anyone.
Farnsworth is that guy. here is Manny’s quote about what happened:
“We beat up one of their big guys (Wednesday) night,” said Ramirez. “They have to stand up for their people.”
April 18th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Farnsworth is garbage. You don’t throw behind someone. He can’t even buzz someone correctly. That being said, if Beckett had done that to A-Rod, Gammons would have praised him.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
I am so sick of “big market” baseball. If this happened in Pittsburgh it would just be another highlight…and that’s all I want from ESPN, like back in the 90’s, 30 minute shows, highlights, and more actual games.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Steve Phillips also took Farnsworth to task last night on Baseball Tonight. Said if Kyle was looking to win points with his teammates he probably didn’t. And if throwing at a guy in that situation is acceptable, then go at his thigh or ribs not head.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
And you’re precisely right. I doubt you’d find anyone who would disagree with the idea that part of being a pitcher is “owning the plate” (in much the same way Kramer had to brush back Joe Pepitone in Yankees fantasy camp). But, when you’re putting someone’s career or life in jeopardy the bullshit “part of the game” argument no longer applies.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
@EF
as i said earlier in another post, you never once heard Gammons call for a suspension or fine for Pedro when he was head hunting.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
Subway Hero! Subway Hero!
April 18th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
/fixed
April 18th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Would have been interesting to hear what real ball players like Krukie would have said about it. Not talking heads and Eduardo Perez who is still mad at the Yankees from when Randy Johnson through at him.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
The Sox have been using Jeter for target practice because he hangs over the inside half of the plate. If he’s going to crowd the plate like that, he’s going to get hit.
And if you’re tired of Manny’s showboating, then get him out. He can’t admire his home run if he’s looking at strike three.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
It hasn’t just been Jeter. They have hit A-Rod plenty the last few years. It use to be Tino too.
Again though. It wasn’t in response to Manny kicking their ass again. It was in response to A-Rod being hit the night before. The right guy pitching, the right guy at the plate.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
@clown: You can find Kiana’s Flex Appeal every morning on ESPNClassic at 7AM.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Like you didn’t start to tear up at the end when Jim was walking with Pam. Throwin’ the bullshit card on that one.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
I would like to thank Clown, my long-time editor.
I think my childhood love affair with ESPN has probably altered my actual memory of the 90’s programming.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Can someone pull up pitch F/x graphs and use that as evidence that Farnsworth can throw with accuracy? His career 4.5bb/9 makes me to think he has no control but I would like to see the graph
April 18th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
+1,000,000 to Nick for the heads-up. Spankin’ it at 7am has got to be totally different than the old 11:30am days.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
I also like how people, Gammons, etc. , glorify people back in the day like Bob Gibson, but that happens today and we talk about how many games pitchers should get suspended. It’s the equivalent of not being allowed to hit the QB.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Please replace Peter Gammons with Jayson Stark.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
About time the Yanks threw at Manny.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
@rittyrich,
I would equal it to the horse collar tackle rule. Nobody cared about that way of tackling until a star got hurt.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
I’m not talking about Yankee class vs. Red Sox class. Yes, I cheer for A-Rod. He’s a Yankee. But I’ll be the first to call BS on him when he does his ridiculous crap. Manny’s a clown and he always has been. My points were simply that:
a. he’s classless and when people act like that, they get thrown at
b. it’s yanks-sox. people get thrown at.
c. gammons is SUPPOSED to be a national journo who shouldn’t show his homerism on the frickin’ air. HE should get thrown at.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Just watched the DVR. Favorite part… “Hello Oscar Meyer Weiner…. lover.”
April 18th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Gammons is a lil old I wouldn’t throw at him.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
It’s all good. Now the Sox can throw at A-Rod next time they play. More intrigue. Love it…
April 18th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Gammons is an idiot homer. he is so biased it’s unbelievable. he never has any real scoops and is there because of his rep, not the work he does now.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Walfredo - they already do. the yanks have never retaliated until last night. it’s really about time
April 18th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Throwing at his head was kind of funny, after all, this is supposed to be entertainment.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
The irony is that bunch of yankee fans would not mind to seeing Farns sent down to aaa…
Pedro is also upset that he was a few inches low on his pitch at Karim Garcia
April 18th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
actually, been waiting 3 years for Farnsworth to do something like this. would have loved to seen somebody try to take him on and lose again.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
off the subject but:
Rookie third baseman Evan Longoria and the Tampa Bay Rays agreed Friday to a $17.5 million, six-year contract, a deal that could be worth up to $44 million over nine seasons.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Gammon’s lost all respect when he was on the field after game 7 in 2004. He hadn’t been heard from during the whole series, as though ESPN didn’t want him to be on air knowing who he was routing for, but as soon as the Sox completed their comeback, he was the first idiot on the field for ESPN, interviewing sox players, basically getting champagne poured on his head by Damon and was so happy it was disturbing. It was pathetic! I can never look at him now without remembering that display.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
No way dude. the dinner party is easily the best of this year. last night’s episode was kinda lame.
Like you didn’t start to tear up at the end when Jim was walking with Pam. Throwin’ the bullshit card on that one.
Just watched the DVR. Favorite part… “Hello Oscar Meyer Weiner…. lover.€
Damn we need a reply button. this copy and pasting is tiresome.
There were some good lines, but the whole episode lacked fun-ness (if that is a word).
April 18th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
you need a new baseball friend. actually, who is your baseball friend? klapisch? it would make sense if that were the case. also, how’s erik bedard treating you so far this year?
April 18th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Baseball friend, hate to break it to you, but you’re national media now too.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
So, by your argument, it would be ok for Timlin to throw at ARod’s head, seeing as ARod does all kinds of “ridiculous crap.” And if Timlin hits him in the head, who cares? That’s the way the game has always been played.
I think you need to come back to planet earth and realize that Farnsworth, like you, got a little carried away.
And let’s be honest — all Gammons did was call Farnsworth what he is. A guy with a pro ERA of 4.5, with a career winning percentage of .383 … looks like a AAA all-star to me.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Good point, Hef. I was actually going to break his balls for this earlier…but got pulled into some work bullshit. Fucking job!
April 18th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
all that was missing from that clip was Tom Jackson to look over and say “Are you retarded?”
April 18th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
personally I loved when A-Rod announced he was opting out of his contract with the Yankees during the World Series. I thought Gammons head was going to explode. It was classic. Fuck Gammons. He is the Dick Vital of Baseball.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Gammons definitely lets his slip show a little on this clip. Sort of embarassing. Baseball, in general, has a weird relationship with the brush back pitch in that sometimes it fully accepted as the thing to do and sometimes, you get the reaction you just saw from Gammons. How many times have you heard an analyst say that a guy was getting thrown at because he dives into the plate? Implied in that analysis is that it’s the hitters fault and not the pitcher.
I’m very far from a Yankee fan, but TBF makes a great point on how the Red Sox have thrown at Jeter for years and I’d say it’s about time the Yankee pitchers started protecting their hitters a little bit.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Wow. I seem to be national media now. Well, keep me in check, then. If a Yankee ever sits and watches their homer, I’ll jump on them for it…
April 18th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Bob Gibson thinks you’re all a bunch of pussies. He would have thrown at Manny in the dugout when he wasn’t wearing a helmet just to get a clean shot at his noggin.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
“That being said, he is also a no-class, show-boating, homer-watching embarrassment to the game and he is universally-loathed throughout the sport for the way he carries himself on the field.”
If by universally you mean NYC and Dan Shaugnessy.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
A. Never throw at somebody’s head. Period.
B. Yes he showboats. Funny thing is that he really didn’t showboat all that much yesterday on his two homers.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
I see right threw Manny’s pretend retardedness…it isn’t manny being manny, it’s manny being an asshole.
April 18th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
The real homer here is TBF.
I’m a Sox fan, so I like Manny. If I was a Yankee fan, I’d hate him too. But that’s a far cry from saying he’s “universally-loathed.” Jeter and Posada, interestingly, apparently made it a point to tell the Sox TV crew how much they respected his work ethic and abilities.
Gammons is not reacting to the fact that Farnsworth is a Yankee - he loves Jeter, and has not had a bad word to say about him (even his defense) - but rather because he’s not well liked even on his team and that the way Farnsworth threw at him was dangerous.
Brushbacks are indeed a part of the game - as any Yankee fan would know after seeing the results of Matsui being dusted by Pedro in the ‘04 ALCS - but there’s a way to do it.
Throwing near a hundred miles an hour behind Manny’s head is not the way it’s done, and is not defensible. Pure and simple.
AS for Jeter being hit, look it up: he gets hit on the hands or wrists because he dives over the plate.
If you can find a single instance of Jeter being thrown at in similar fashion to Manny, by all means please point it out and I’ll retract it.
If Beckett or Paps or Pedro in his prime did what Farnsworth had done, I’d be ashamed. As I was when Pedro threw at Garcia; a move I have never and would never defend.
The defense here speaks to me of sheer homerism, nothing more.
April 18th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
and when they drilled arod in the back its ok? fuck manny. hit him in the head with a fastball, please. and i wish cancer and another stroke for peter “im not dead yet” gammons.
April 18th, 2008 at 10:51 pm
and that’s chedabob, for all you people who have forgotten why you love blogs so much.
April 19th, 2008 at 12:53 am
good one Risk. Ill remember that name.
April 19th, 2008 at 1:33 am
I feel bad for Manny - not sure if I’ll get to sleep tonight.
btw, I think he just began him home run trot from one he hit on Thursday night…