Ballin’: Cavs, Pistons and Hornets are Road Warriors
NBA April 28th. 2008, 11:45am
Clinton Portis, Michael Beasley and Kevin Durant watched Delonte West become a hero.
Cleveland 100, Washington 97: Delonte West hit a clutch triple and the Cavs are on the verge of defeating the Wizards in the postseason for the third year in a row. Poor Gilbert Arenas. The guy leaves West for a split second and the Cavs lefty drills the three; then Arenas comes down and gets a good look at a game-tying three at the buzzer, but it was a brick. LeBron, who was on the receiving end of a cheap shot from cocky DeShawn Stevenson, scored 34 points, took 12 rebounds, and handed out seven assists. Then, he said the Wizards have no chance of rallying from down 3-1. Hard to argue with the guy.
Phoenix 105, San Antonio 86: Unsure what to make of this result. Knowing that nobody comes back from the brink of death (a 3-0 deficit) how didn’t the Suns mail it in? Boris Diaw finally showed up - 20 points, 10 rebounds and eight assists, and Raja Bell (27 points) made as many three’s (five) as he had in the first three games of the series combined. We’ll be pulling for the Suns to pull off the miracle, but your life has a better chance of coming to an end at the hands of a Bengal Tiger.
Detroit 93, Philadelphia 84: At halftime, TNT’s Chris Webber had a great line - Pistons’ coach Flip Saunders probably wasn’t saying anything in the locker room (C-Webb actually said they take cues from Dumars, not Flip), but rather Detroit’s core of Billups, ‘Sheed and Prince were likely plotting a takeover. And they owned the third quarter (34-16) and the Pistons rallied to victory. This is the only series knotted at two. If the aging Pistons are stretched to seven, will it have an impact on the series with Orlando, which leads Toronto 3-1?
New Orleans 97, Dallas 84: We’re finding out that Dirk has no supporting cast. Josh Howard, thought to be a star two years ago, is shooting an abysmal 25 percent in this series. Jason Terry’s playing well offensively, but he can’t stop anyone at the defensive end. The most unlikely star of the entire first round? Jannero Pargo, the Hornets frail gunner from Arkansas. After a 1-for-9 stinker in the opener, he’s been torrid, hitting 20-of-37 shots. Jason Kidd’s dirty, dangerous foul on Pargo late in a blowout loss might not get him suspended, but it should.
Photo: Icon Sports Media
213 Responses to “Ballin’: Cavs, Pistons and Hornets are Road Warriors”
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April 28th, 2008 at 11:46 am
Don’t talk about Pargo in a positive light, please. He is one of the worst regulars in the Association, non-Cavs edition.
April 28th, 2008 at 11:46 am
Who’d you rather have, Durant or Beasley?
April 28th, 2008 at 11:49 am
Lack of offensive rebounding and the Wizards inability to guard the Cavs three point shooters killed them yesterday. It would also be nice to have a big man who could make a shot in the clutch.
I don’t understand why Gilbert is out there, he is adding almost nothing on the offensive end and he has always been a defesnive liability.
Caron should have taken that last shot.
Spencer, I will not use Dorncock’s name, I will stick with the original terms of the bet. However, it is interesting that Mr. Cock said home court doesn’t matter at all. It was glorious watching the Hawks have their way with the Celtics Saturday, while Ray Allen tossed up air ball after air ball.
April 28th, 2008 at 11:50 am
Oh and Delonte West is a retard.
April 28th, 2008 at 11:51 am
I’ve ranted before about how people always want to react so quickly to trades, draft picks, etc. Like how people said the Joe Johnson/Phoenix trade was horrible for the Hawks after Diaw had that great year and the Hawks were bad. Now, it doesn’t look quite so bad - it’s not a steal for the Hawks or anything…the advantage probably still goes to the Suns b/c of the draft picks, but still…it’s not near as bad as it looked.
April 28th, 2008 at 11:53 am
cbh…if you don’t wanna change your name, i wouldn’t begrudge you. tho if your as sick of DeShawn Stevenson as I am, perhaps we can find a way to put him out of our misery.
April 28th, 2008 at 11:53 am
@mike..durant
i’m suprised lebron said the series was over b/c of how politically correct he normally is but he’s right..its over and once again we have to ask why would you ever call lebron james overated
April 28th, 2008 at 11:54 am
Haven’t seen enough of Beasley, but he’s probably the better player based on the fact that he’s inside-outside. Neither plays defense.
But some of the greatest PF’s in the last 30 years have won nothing. KG. Mailman. Barkley.
April 28th, 2008 at 11:54 am
@atl: The picks were a problem, but worse was the money they gave him. No team will win a playoff series with Joe Johnson as its best player. He’s not even close to being good enough. Maybe in a few years when Horford takes the throne, your team can do some damage.
April 28th, 2008 at 11:55 am
durant, hands down.
why did anyone think dallas had a chance in this series? it’s fundamental basketball…when you have no chance of stopping 20% of your opponent’s offense (in this case, chris paul), you don’t have a chance in the series.
having “playoff experience” doesn’t help jason kidd keep up with paul. being a “seasoned veteran” doesn’t help josh howard make a jumper. this playoff experience shit is the dumbest thing i’ve ever heard.
April 28th, 2008 at 11:55 am
I think the Wiz could be a good team if they had any kind of leadership. Who runs that team, and I mean player not coach. When DeShawn makes a basket in the first quarter and starts his can’t-feel-face-throat-slash-trash-talk, Caron/Gilbert needs to grab him and say “we don’t play that way, stop the garbage and play ball,” but no one does. That team has no direction and no leadership and it shows.
April 28th, 2008 at 11:56 am
Spencer, I am a man of my word.
I can’t stand DeShawn, he really is Soulja Boy, I completely agree with LeBron on that.
However, if I have to listen to Mike Tirico give LeBron James a 2 and a half hour verbal blow job again I am going to kill myself.
April 28th, 2008 at 11:57 am
@Rumeal: Who does NO have to stop Dirk? He’s been a horse in this series. 28/12/4 on 50% shooting. That 20% rule is ridiculous.
April 28th, 2008 at 11:59 am
funny, that’s why i’d rather watch an ESPN or TNT broadcast rather than a Cavs network one. if you think tirico is bad, he ain’t got shit on McLeod. it’s actually a step back in terms of fellatiaton.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
I never thought I’d saying something like this, but:
Can someone please tell Dei Lynam to cover up her cleavage? The freckles or liver spots or whatever they are freaked me out everytime she was on-screen.
It had to be said. Thank you for humoring me.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
But TBL..the Best PF ever has won 4 championships in the last 10 years.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
That I can’t feel my face thing is one of the most stupid celebrations this side of the Gaints “ballin’”
April 28th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
chandler and west combine to at least contain dirk better than the mavs have done on paul. plus it’s easier to slow down a PF than a PG since the PG has the ball far more often. it’s not like you can deny him the ball 85 feet from the basket.
the mavs have no chance of even containing chris paul. you just have to hope for an off-night like game 3. same thing happened last year with baron davis. same thing happened the year before with dwyane wade. they are completely susceptible to penetrating guards. for some reason, their playoff experience and home crowd doesn’t help them defend that shit.
p.s. - the series is 3-1. i think i may be correct on this issue.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
The Wizards still blow and will be gone in the first round like usual. It’s actually an indictment on the Cavs that the games are as close as they are. And man I hate DeShaun Stevenson. I would really hate him if I was a Wizards fan too. He simply can’t play for shit, yet continues to jack up three pointers (horrible form by the way) and talk shit. What a moron. Caron Butler is great, but I don’t think anyone else on the Wizards is worth a damn. A horribly coached team to boot. They are a team full of streaky jump shooters. It will never work.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
At least LeBron delivers a money shot after a 3 hour VBJ, TMac gets the same VBJ but can’t seem to keep it up.
/Known TMac Hater
April 28th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
p.s. - the series is 3-1. <—- On that issue, yes you are correct. The series is 3-1.
But Dirk is shooting better than Paul. Which tells me he may be harder to stop, no?
Chris Paul is playing amazingly, so is Dirk. The rest of the Hornets are playing much better than the rest of the Mavs. That’s why they’re winning the series. Has nothing to do with a 20% rule.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Coop I am a T Mac hater as well, he is the antithesis of a superstar.
Sean Jean, there are players on the Wizards worth a damn, they just don’t make a cohesive team. At this point I would be fine with letting Gilbert walk and try to build around someone else. The way the team is constructed now they will never win anything.
DC area is so sad right now. They were making a big deal about the Redskins, Caps, and Wizards making the playoffs in the same year. I thought the goal was to actually win something, not just make the playoffs.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
@cbh: The only decent human being on your team is Antawn Jamison. I’ve gained a lot of respect for him this series that I didn’t otherwise have. Too bad he’s too old to carry a team.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
cbh: Right, they don’t make a good team, and they won’t (and haven’t) ever win anything. I don’t mean the Wizards players are all terrible (although I would argue Stevenson is pretty close), they are all pretty “ok” to “good” players. And they are all jump shooters. They have no point guard, no inside presence, and nothing from a gameplan or coaching standpoint that wins games. They can be a tough team to watch. Yeah they will get hot every now and again and those jump shots will fall and it will be impressive, but it doesn’t last, and it certainly doesn’t work in the playoffs.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Oh, and also, it is just further proof that Eddie Jordan has no idea what he is doing that Andre Blatche doesn’t see more playing time. It is obvious he adds a lot to that team on the inside.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Hey Nick, Roger Mason is a good guy too dammit!
Agreed Sean Jean and Nick on your point of Antawn being too old to carry them. I like Jamison but he can be hell to watch, for every good thing he does, he will do something else that is just as bad.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
agree i like jamison…beating the wizards just feels so good as a cavs fan, i know it means nothing 1st round etc etc but will all the talk from stevenson and agent 0…its just awesome to keep winning games against the wizards
especially no matter what they try to do to stop lebron they cant
April 28th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
dirk may be shooting better but i guarantee you no team enters a series shaking in their shorts because of dirk freaking nowitzki. he’s a great scorer, but it’s not like he makes his teammates all that much better.
just because paul has a lower shooting percentage, doesn’t mean he’s not creating shots for his teammates. he gets into the lane whenever he wants, forcing double teams and switches. and even if he’s not getting 18 assists a game, he’s still having that kind of impact.
if you can’t stop a penetrating guard, you have NO CHANCE. we knew dallas couldn’t contain paul two weeks ago, but people still gave them a chance. please. anthony johnson dropped 40 points on jason kidd two years ago. and cuban and avery expected him to slow down chris paul? dear god.
my only point is that if your deciding reason for picking a series winner is their playoff experience, you should give your head a shake.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
@Nick - re: Joe Johnson - totally agree. Believe me, I’ll be the last person to defend a Billy Knight move. And the more I see of Johnson, the more I realized he wasn’t the kind of guy to lead a team. I wanted to believe in him because he was the first good talent we had been able to lure to Atlanta in a long time. But he’s just not good enough, and this series has shown me that he shrinks in the spotlight. As far as the money, yeah, it sucks, but we had to overpay like hell to get anyone to come there. That was after a 13-69 campaign. I hate when people use the “we had to overpay” excuse, but it truly does apply there.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Pargo is having a damn good series, even though I thought Kidd was going to break him in half when he took him down.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
cbh is jamison a free agent at the end of the season? and if he is what do u think they will do with gil and him being FAs in the same offseason? who would you rather keep
April 28th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
mmonast: I would let both of them go. They are highly dispensable and clearly aren’t going to bring any playoff success to Washington. Give more playing time to Blatche, Nick Young, and Roger Mason, and look for some big men free agents.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Jamison’s coming off a 21-10, so he’s gonna get paid by someone. He might be a little too old to be worth his contract in the out years.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
Yes mmonast, they are both free agents, Gil is opting out, Jamison’s contract is up.
I would keep Jamison and let Gil go, don’t know if that is the right thing to do but I don’t feel like sitting through 25 win campaigns again, that was most of my life and I don’t want to go back to it. They have to keep one of them or the fan base is going to be quite upset.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
@Sean: Good plan. Maybe Brand? Nick Young is gonna be an awful pro, though.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
Jamison is a paper all star. He’s good on paper, puts up decent numbers, but is pretty soft on the inside, doesn’t come through at the end of games, and ultimately just doesn’t do anything that a lot of other players in the league don’t just as well or better.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
@mmonast - Neither….that team needs to be blown up and started over. To many injury risks, and WAY to much talk and not enough walk. But I am a hating machine on these d-leaguers. They need to start by cutting Stevenson and his f’ing stupidass hand.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Rule 439: Women are only required to cover up their cleavage while attending funerals and baptisms.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
LeBron James = 20 hockey assists too last night. The respect this guy demands from defenses is unheard of since Jordan. Opponents don’t even care if you told them West and Gibson and Z and Joe Smith and whoever else would finish shots. If this cat James got played 1 on 1 an entire 48 minutes every game, he’d get ya at least 38 PPG. Instead he just keeps making plays.
SORRY DESHAUN AND GILBERT - AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN.
Talk shit next year when its the 2 vs. 7 series in the 1st round and we win again.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
I alternate between calling Duncan a PF and a C. This week, he’s a center. I need to bend the rules to fit my arguments!
April 28th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
And when he says bend, he means break in half, especially with those cannons.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
Dahhhhhhhhhh, the Cavs love on here is quite irritating for me. That is all.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
Tim Duncan is a center
April 28th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
What are the Wizards doing calling two late on-the-block plays for Jamison, he really doesn’t have any good one-on-one back to basket moves 8-10 feet away.
By the way, the Cavaliers ran a pretty basic set 5 consecutive times late in the 4th, they’re like a throwback to the mid 90’s when isolations were king. I think the Celts have a much better team defensive scheme, and should be able to neatralize it, but we’ll see. LeBron always makes things interesting.
What’s with James’ shot selection yesterday? Even Kobe thought he was taking too many contested turnarounds.
Cavs supporting cast stepped it up, this series could have been interesting if they hadn’t.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
Did anyone see that retarded ass post game with Bitch Ass Queen Global talking about the hit stevenson put on him. I think someone asked him what would have happened on the playground if that had happened. I don’t even know how answered, but he did. All I could think was shut the f up. You aren’t on the playground and no one cares. He kept saying that stevenson hit him with a closed fist when it clearly wasn’t.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
damn 76ers
April 28th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
cbh49er - no worries, I will be hating on all today. Well, maybe not Dwight Howard. But, all others are fair game.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
ya i dont think they would let both bounce(would probably be the thing to do however like sean john said and go after FA’s) but if i had to pick i would go with jamison…they need to get rid of stevenson as soon as possible…all he has done this series is give lebron a reason to play as hard as he can
April 28th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
@sandi: First, eat a dick. Second, his teammates told him it was a closed fist. The game was just over. He hadn’t seen a replay.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
I couldn’t figure out which way the sixers/pistons game was going yesterday. The refs calling shit when they shouldn’t and letting things go when they shouldn’t. It felt like they were controlling the game and tempo and not the players. It was weird to watch. Same with the Hornet/Mavs.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
troof.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
ya irish completely fell apart 2nd half…was pulling for them too
April 28th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
@spencer- he is a damn PF for the last time
April 28th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
@mmonasty- im hoping they win the series for obvious reasons
April 28th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
By the way, has a 50-win team ever been swept in a first round, or at all? That might happen tonight in Denver.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
irish…i didnt say it, i just echoed someone’s sentiments.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
There’s nothing not “center” about Tim Duncan. Although, it’s just a semantical argument. Most NBA offenses don’t distinguish between the 4’s or 5’s..
April 28th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
@Nick P - I hope I didn’t hit a sore spot with you. I just wish these guys would play more and talk less. Or at least hold comment until they know what they are talking about. And, this isn’t a playground so no one give a shit what would happen on a playground, don’t answer the question. He needs better PR rep. BTW, Suck My Balls.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
well even if they dont win you should be doing back flips about playing the pistons…
from lebrons post game presses reporter”do you think the wizards can do anything to get back in this series?”
lebron “no”
April 28th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
King had 5 fouls (his own fault) and didn’t want to charge as he had done twice already - the Wizards are very good at flopping as well. LeBron charges were a huge problem in the series 2 years ago. LeBron was jumper happy yesterday, but he was attempting to crush that team and did getcha 34, 12 and 7. Yes, we do expect more from the best NBA player since Mike.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
Irish - I hope Jameer holds up the rest of the way….he’s looking way inconsistent. Just scary. And I am worried about all these teams that only use 6/7 guys a night. You watch the hornets/mavs/lakers and they are using 8/10 guys and getting good help. It seems like other teams haven’t been using them and now they don’t know how to play.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
My line is that LeBron is a threat for the triple double every night, as well as the triple negative in the post-game interviews (This coming from the guy that allegedly got like 3.5 at STVSM).
And I can’t take Tirico either. He lectures (like Breen) during the game. When LeBron hit his first jumper, he sounded off “Boo that.” Ok Mike, we get, you like LeBron.. we get it.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
About the PR rep: HIS PR girl Amanda is most likely the best in the game, she always keeps him under control, feeding the cliches, not ripping anybody hard, always being the bigger man. She will never let Him lose it in front of a mic/camera like other NBA superstars (Sheed, Kobe, etc.)
April 28th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
RD, don’t get carried way with his rebounds yesterday. Three of them were viable, in traffic rebounds, the rest were a product of right-place-right-time. Very overrated stat! As are assists.
That should get things going..:)
April 28th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
About Mike Tirico: He is an admitted Pistons fan - That tells you how good this guy LeBron James is.
P.S. Fred McLeod is the biggest Pistons fan on the planet - that tells you even moreso.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Tirico was driving me insane. I almost turned off the game because of it.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
i just hope the Magic can close out the series tonight. If Toronto does win, they will have some momentum going back home for game 6. The Orlando Magic lost already in the playoffs before with a 3-1 series lead. Back when they had T-Mac, the Pistons came back from a 3-1 deficit to beat the Magic in ‘03.
One more win and a nice rest. Detroit and Philly look to be going to 7 games
April 28th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
RD, Kobe is as good as it gets for a post-game interview. He actually sounds like he understands how subject verb agreement work. It’s refreshing.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
The magic might actually get more rest than cleveland for once if they can win.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
@ cleveland: That’s because he didn’t grow up in America.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Yeah what did Tirico want, Wizards fan to cheer James? The overrated chant is stupid but at least they were into it, and of course he is going to be targeted by the fans. Tirico is a douchebag.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
That’s why i don’t think Jordan and Oscar Robertson were any good either. FG % is also overrated.
Rebounding is so overrated that this Cavs/Wiz series should be 4-0 Washington, except its the only thing the Cavs do well as a team - Rebounding maximizes possessions for your team, minimizes them for the opponent.
Try again kid.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Shaq post game > everyone else
April 28th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
@sabdibalz- when he is on, he is on fire. But when he is off, its just horrible to watch. If we dont turn the ball over tonight, i think the Magic can close it out. Rashard big money Lewis needs to come up big, along with Hedo. Hedo has been very inconsistent as well. We know Dwight will get his, but the role players need to come up big tonight
April 28th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
RD, our boy Freddy is from Cleveland, he’s a Cavalier fan who was hired by the Pistons. Not he’s just insufferable. Reghi dominates! Ironic b/c Reghi is from Detroit!
April 28th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Tim Duncan is a center. Always has been. Was labeled PF at beginning of career because of the admiral.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
RD, team rebounding is very important. Individual rebounding is way, way misleading (Cavaliers put LeBron on the low block on free throws.. any power forward would gobble those up). Give me a stat that indicates “preserved possessions” and I’ll put stock in that.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
dampier/brandon bass = “preserved possessions”
they killed it yesterday on the offensive boards, even in a loss
April 28th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
reghi, while better than mcleod, was still a pile of dogshit as an NBA play-by-play guy. and how Austin Carr continues employment is beyond me. youd think “grasp of the english language” would be up there for someone in his position.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
LeBron is not on the low block when he is playing SF (a large majority of the time).
Try again, watch a game - Z and Big ben take those 2 spots.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
And RD, you and Nick act like 12 of 24 is head over heals different from a 10 for 24 game where two shots rattle in and out. You guys get carried way with neglibible differences in shooting percentages!
April 28th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Reghi = Just as awesome to listen to as Tait and Hamilton.
McLeod and Carr = Could die for all I care.
And McLeod is a Pistons fan, that’s not in debate.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Tim Duncan will go down as the greatest PF of all time. What role does Umberto play? he was guarding Shaq all series right?
April 28th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Offensive rebounds are one of the most important stats you can use to show how well a team played. Combine it with their shooting percentage and you see just how dominant the other team was. The hornets were good yesterday, but they did not dominate the mavs until late. The mavs couldn’t hit the ocean with all those offensive rebounds they got.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Hammy is good RD, just can’t take exhibition games sounding like World Series games.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
I don’t think we get carried away, I just think we realize one is clearly better than the other. Would you rather a guy on your team (The Lakers in your case) went 10-24 or 12-14? Have 7 assists or 5, have 8 rebounds or 5? Same extends for the entire team.
Would you rather your team have 14 or 17 turnovers?
April 28th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
RD dont put carr on your death list…he is hilarious when he gets all excited and forgets how to speaks and how he mumbles
at least he can be critical when then cavs are playing bad mcloud just sucks everyones dongers all the time no matter what that douche bag is terrible. should have never fired reghi
April 28th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
i guess you could call standing next to a 7 foot mountain of shit “guarding”
April 28th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Consequently, Carr mumbling consequently leads me to consequently wansdbiufqw want him to die
April 28th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Kobe averaged like 35 PPG a couple years ago, but only like 12 were viable. Why only 12? Because that allows me to stat-disregard to the fullest and make the most fallacious argument as possible.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
yea, AC cant die for another 3-5 years otherwise my dog would lose her favorite lawn to shit on.
i mean, itd still be there, but it just wouldnt be the same.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
haha rd
reghi and carr were the best “on this cross country flight my man here ate 5 snickers bars!!”
“haha i love chocolate Michael”
April 28th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Correction, Reghi and GUOKUS (sp?) were the best.
The Magic fans now get to enjoy Mattie
April 28th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
mattie goukas sucks
April 28th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Nick, I’m saying those “stats” don’t exactly even out over time. They are a great supplement to analyzing the game, but not the end all. Like I said, you act per game as if 10-24 from the field is an atrocious shooting performance, yet 12-24 is a very solid effort. When in reality, there’s not much of a difference there.
I’m also not saying LeBron isn’t a good rebounder. It’s just that you guys get carried away with a state line, and fail to read between the lines. Do you even realize how many rebounds in a game or irrelevant? If Lebron doesn’t get 7 of those, someone else would on his team b/c the other team retreats.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Fred McLeod’s hair also roots for the Pistons…
April 28th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
And if the Cavs only outrebounded Washington by 18 instead of 20 last night, we’d have a 3 game series on our hands. Everyone gets those boards that don’t get contested necessarily by the other team, not just the Cavalier small forward. The fact is his RPG is as fair as it gets, he’s 6′9 and jumps out da gym. If your guy was 6′9 and jumped out da gym, he’d be close to 8 rebs per night too. If he played more PF, he’d get more Rebs too by the way.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
Right RD, so let’s put more stock in team rebounds, I’m in agreement with you.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
what are you Cavs fans going to do next round? sulk?
April 28th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Saying certains stats are irrelevant is irrelevant.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Thought I’d check in to admit that the Celtics suck, Cleveland scares the shit out of me, and I hate Al Horford.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
irish why would we sulk when we are beating the c’s?
April 28th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
The point is, if you had Jamison, Blatch, Haywood and Butler rebounding, that team wouldn’t get as many rebounds playing against Z, Big Ben, LeBron, Varejao and Joe Smith. Because the Cavs individual rebounders are better man for man, individually speaking, 1 on 1. LeBron is always gonna win boards and jump balls over Butler, Jamison has done a good jobe winning them over Big Ben, but Ben held his own yesterday. Z almost always outbattles his man.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
We will sulk as much if not more than any other 2nd round loser. We ALL expect to get handled by the C’s though, as we all know da L pretty well. That doesn’t mean we aren’t going to root our balls off.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
Z’s the man RD, you’ll get no argument from me there! I have some great seats for game by the way!!
April 28th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
LeBron is a diva who wont take a shot outside the paint at the end of the game because even he doesn’t trust his jumper. True or mostly true? Discuss.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
@cursed - will you be wearing your Kobe jersey?
April 28th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
@Clown, if i can get the semen stains out.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
i would love to see Cleveland vs Orlando in the conference finals
April 28th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
By the way, white people and NBA jerseys.. cough cough RD, cough.. not a great look.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
I have some nosebleeds for the final game of the series.
That should make The Cavs and “The overrated one” 12 and 3 against the Wizards in the playoffs, the last 3 seasons. I think we lost those 3 games because, as Gilbert pointed out, the Cavs have the 2nd best player on the floor at the ends of quarters/games.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
me too irish but i imagine we have different reasons as to why
April 28th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
@mmonasty- you think Orlando will win tonight?
April 28th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
@cursed: 12-24 versus 10-24 is at least 4 extra points per game, no? That will automatically raise your point diff by +4 too. Adding that much to your expected winning percentage is a huge difference. If you can’t see that, then you’re clueless (more so than I previously thought). You don’t think an extra 328 points over the course of a season may come in handy?
April 28th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
It’s official! Turkoglu is most improved player!
April 28th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
With me not liking either team I think Cleveland vs. Orlando would be an atrocious conference finals.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
oh yeah. Hedo for MIP baby
April 28th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
i do, magic have been playing well and the beast has been absolutely killing the raptors…jj reddick for the series winning 3!!!!!!!!
April 28th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
i expect both orlando and cleveland to wrap up their series at home…
April 28th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
I would think that even people who dont like the magic would want them in the conference finals instead of the pistons.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
@mmonasty- the beast is doing big things, big things
April 28th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
cavs vs. orlando would be an exhibition in awful PG play.
tho thinking about LBJ thunderdunking in dwight’s grill gets me all excited.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Nick P, the point is, which was clearly lost on you (fun to take pot shots right?), that in one game, it doesn’t make a difference. Sure, if it’s always 10 of 24, then that would bear out over the course of the season. You guys look at box scores and act like it tells the whole story. If a player had two shots rattle in and out, you make it sound like the guy had a terrible game. It’s the same results-based analysis you tend to abhor i thought. Again, 48% from the field is just not that much different from 46%. That’s 20 shots for every 1000, which is really only one or two a game. Big deal.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Disagree. I think the 76ers tombstone will have a death date as halftime last night. Up a bunch at home, in control of the game.
And then the Pistons woke up, realized who they were playing, and took control of the series by actually playing defense. Who on Philly can create their own shot? NOBODY is a factor inside.
Done.
I’m not ready to concede on the Raptors just yet. Especially to a live-by-the-three, die by it team
April 28th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
your right mando…tired of there “we turn it on when we want” arrogant bs
he is fun to watch no doubt, a magic cavs finals would be very entertaining
April 28th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
It is kind of a big deal. This season, for instance, if Lebron shoots 46% instead of 48.4%, he would miss 40 more shots, which would equate to at least 80 points over the course of 82 games. That’s a big deal. It is. Our efficiency differential was already negative, (which means we should have lost 42 games). That means were really lucky in close games that could be coin flips. If Lebron shoots like Kobe did this year, the Cavs probably don’t even make the playoffs.
Big deal? Yeah I’d say so. Luckily Lebron doesn’t suck as much as Kobe. Cleveland dodged a bullet there.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
TBL, i dont mind the magic shooting all those 3’s, if its just bogans and evans. What bothers me is our big offseason aquisition jacking up 3 pointers when the magic are paying him the money he asked for. he is 6′10 or 6′11 and should be pump faking that shot more often and taking it to the hole. i cant stand watching him hover around the 3 point line all game long.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
TheBigLead, that was the same argument after the Game 2 in Detroit. “Oh now the Pistons waked up and are not going to sleep anymore and win these series in 5″ then what happened? They got crushed in game 3. I would not be surprised if the Pistons lose game 5 or win game 5 by 50.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
id love for philly to just start running those old piston fucks out of the gym…but i agree, TBL, aint happenin.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
So would someone argue that 10-24 with lesser surrounding stats was BETTER than 12-24? Does “not that much of a difference” mean “BETTER?”
I guess I’m wondering where the line gets drawn, but hey I’ll take my guy being more efficient, even if its not 24-24 versus 0-24 (with better surrounding stats as well).
April 28th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
I’m not quite ready to give up on Philly, they want it more and have shown they can hang with Det even when the Pistons “turn it on”. Toronto I’m ready to give up on, they can’t handle the big fella.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
The Cavs have like 6 guys in the top 20 in “crunch time” stats, this is because we have a player who can beat 3 defenders by himself, and if he chooses to not beat them, the other 4 players get to play 4 on 2.
Unfortunately LeBron does not play 48 minutes per game and was hurt for 8 games, DAMN HIM.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Nick P, you’re acting like these players shoot their averages is each game. They don’t, some games better, some games worse. Also, point differential changes situations in games. You can’t just in a blanket way project what missed shots would have done over the course of a year, that would then change the situations (Change the rules, as Ben would say), which would alter games, sometimes dramtically.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Nick P, two percent in shooting percentage is the equivlanet to 20 shots out of 1000. LeBron and Kobe shoot 100 shots in 47 games. 20 shots in 47 games is barely over 2 a game. Considering how Kobe shoots at the free throw line, I’d say he makes up for it.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
@cursed: I walked through the math for you. It was correct. Continue to scoff at statistical analysis and claim Kobe is better because of his “will to win.” It has become quite amusing.
Thank god we didn’t trade Lebron for Kobe.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
@TBL - live and die by the threes…whatever. Who is guarding Dwight this series huh NOBODY.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
@TBL- why do the Magic get wide open threes every single game ?
April 28th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
hell no. theyre too athletic to dismiss and i havent been impressed with detroit all year. and andre miller is a beast.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
RASHO NESTEROVIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
April 28th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Cursed, had you switched LeBron to the Wizards yesterday and Butler to the Cavs, (1st of all it would have been a blowout of massive 36 point proportions for the Wiz) the Cavs would not have outrebounded the Wiz by 20, probably not even by 15. This is an individual rebounding analysis we need to consider.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Nick, my point about trading LeBron for Kobe had a ton to do with the assessment that LeBron may not stay. You must have only read the headline. Just like you only read the box scores.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
In NBA history, there have been 174 playoff series that opened with a 3-1 start, but only eight times has a team with the lead been victimized.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
What you didn’t consider in that article was that Kobe had a no trade clause, and just like he nixxed the Chi deal because Deng would have been involved and he admitted he couldn’t lead them deep, if Kobe knew LeBron would have been involved he would have laughed, like really really really hard, said to Kupchek and Ferry, “You think I could lead that crap to 50 win seasons and playoff series victories?????????!!!!????” and exercised his no trade clause.
. PERIOD
http://cursedcleveland.blogspot.com/2007/06/trade-lebron-for-kobe.html#c6987359374328297266
April 28th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
Nah, I dug a little deeper (I’ve read it at least 50 times. Gets better by the day). It centered on needing a guy who can “score 35 points by shooting jumpers,” “not wasting this Cavs roster’s prime,” and that Lebron “may have been” the biggest part of last year’s Finals run. It’s just funny you thought that if Lebron were on his way out the door of Cleveland (his hometown, essentially), that Kobe would have been willing to waive his no-trade to come play with human garbage.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
wtf are you guys talking about now
April 28th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
There have been 120 playoff series where teams led 3-1 and played Game 5 at home. Guess how many times that team failed to win the series? Two.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Check it out, irish. It’s from Cursed’s “I’m the biggest Cleveland fan alive, except I hate the Cavs” blog.
Listen cursed, I can understand holding Lebron to a higher standard. We should all do that. He’s the best in the game. But don’t compare him to a very talented (but obviously flawed) individual. We should be comparing him to MJ, and trying to figure out what he needs to do to get that good (if it’s even possible). He passed Kobe by a long time ago.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Irish - who were the two winners? And when?
April 28th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
The Red Sox?
April 28th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
When the Cavs get eliminated will that stop the Kobe/LeBron debates until November?
April 28th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
TBL- off the top of my head, maybe the Pistons against the 2003 T-Mac led Magic.
April 28th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
winner winner chicken dinner?
April 28th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
@TBL- read the Orlando Sentinel if you dont believe me. You have doubted the MAgic all year. Maybe it has something to do with me and how i talk about them, but show love when its due. You lost a lot of Celtics fans on here because you never posted anything about them all year
April 28th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
Irish, losing Celtics fans on here was a blessing, most obnoxious NBA fans by far.
April 28th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
maybe i’m confused but that 2003 magic team didnt play game 5 at home but yes they did go on to lose the series
the ‘95 suns team had a 3-1 series lead and had game 5 at home and lost the series to the eventual champion rockets
April 28th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Are you kidding me Nick? Holding LeBron to a higher standard. Apparently you guys hold Kobe to the highest standard of all. He got a fourth of the love LeBron would have ever received for his 49 pt performance against the Nuggets. One of the greatest opening around performance in playoff history, yet it’s already forgotten.
April 28th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
@big worm- your right. i spoke on that a long time ago in comment # 67. i was guessing on that question. The orlando sentinel had those stats
What is your prediction tonight? you were dead on in Game 3
April 28th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
It was a great great game for one of the 5 or 10 best players in da L. He’s not as close to Jordan as LeBron though, that’s just obvious. Mike never needed a top-tier big nan to win a playoff series.
April 28th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
@irish..yeah i said toronto by 10 and they won by a little more than that but i like the magic to close them 2nite by 6
April 28th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
I’ll never judge a player based on 1 game, cursed. It was a great performance, though.
April 28th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
@ RD- but mike did need Scottie pippen though didnt he. who does Lebron have for help on his team? NOBODY
April 28th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
and yes i agree that our role players must play well for us to win..specifically jameer nelson
April 28th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
irish - sorry, i dont post to make fans happy … come on man. I’ve written plenty about the Celtics here. I picked them to win it all two weeks ago.
Nothing against the magic, but when you take that many three’s, you better make them. Risky proposition. But mathematically, the Raptors probably have like a 3% chance to win this series. Anyone want to run the #’s?
April 28th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
@bigworm- it would be nice to close out and get some rest. Im going to be one happy mfer if they do win tonight
April 28th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
@irish: You’re right. He has nobody. What are you trying to argue?
April 28th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
@TBL- i could care less about the Celtics. I thought maybe you have been reading the rants posted by Celtics comments over the past 3 months.
April 28th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
@nick p- RD claiming the only reason Kobe won a title was cause of Shaq
April 28th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
come on now lets not start this whole thing about mj never winning a title without pippen..yes pippen was a hell of a player and is one of the more underrated players of all time but to think jordan wouldn’t have won one without him is ridiculous
April 28th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Well that’s true, isn’t it?
Jordan had Pippen, but Shaq was a fuck ton better than Pippen, right?
April 28th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Well, he was CLEARLY better than Kobe.
April 28th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
Shaq was a ton better than Purdue YES, Cartwright YES, Wennington YES
April 28th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Let’s just put it this way. When we start to talk about who are the 10 greatest of all time, no one will laugh if you say Shaq.
They would get a kick out of someone saying Pippen, though.
April 28th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
it was shaq’s team..yes kobe was an important piece..lets put it this way shaq was the jordan of those laker teams and kobe was the pippen
April 28th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
I think we are forgetting Kobe didn’t just need Shaq to win 4 playoff series in a year, he hasn’t won a playoff series without a top-tier big man/elite player.
Gasol completely shits on Big Z (who I like much, much, much more than anyone on this board).
And do not think that the last 3 Cavs rosters would have had the seeds they did, or the ability to beat Washington replacing The King w/ Kobe.
April 28th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
stupid ass bullshit
April 28th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
RD that Kobe not winning a series without Shaq argument is going down the toilet tonight.
April 28th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
if kobe and lebron switched places everyone would be talking about the lakers being the next great dynasty and kobe would be calling in radio stations trying to get traded out of cleveland b/c he doesnt have anyone around him
April 28th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
+1, worm. Are you a Cleveland fan or independent?
April 28th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
@nick..independent
April 28th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
I second that - one of the best arguments in the Kobe/Lebron debate I’ve heard yet.
April 28th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Goes down the toilet tonight?
I said Kobe hasn’t won a playoff series without an ELITE big man and that Gasol shits on Z.
Call me when Kobe gets Smush Parker, Larry Hughes, Kwami Brown or Ben Wallace (2008) out of the 1st round without a 2nd all star or elite big man.
April 28th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
RD are you for real? your hate for Kobe goes in the same league as Nick P on this site. And we all know how people on this site feel about Nick p and his hate for Kobe
April 28th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
You are ridiculous RD, if you want to put conditions on everything, put LeBron in the West and see if he wins a series.
It’s Kobe’s fault that he has a good big man? That is the most retarded thing ever. Kobe is a top 5 player, any reasonable person knows that.
April 28th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Why is it an either or with you guys?
LeBron is great, Kobe is great, why the need to denigrate Kobe? It makes me severly question your basketball knowledge to hear that Kobe isn’t a top tier play, that Dirk Nowitizki is better than Kobe, that Tracy McGrady was ever better than Kobe, etc.
April 28th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
A reasonable person would take KG, TD, LBJ, Dwight, and Chris Paul over Kobe. That puts him out of the top 5.
April 28th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
+1 CBH
April 28th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Nick, no disrespect meant either, I think you add a lot but those statements were just asinine.
April 28th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
@cbh: The only reason people give as to why Kobe is better than Dirk is “because he is.” Same for why he’s “better” than Lebron or any other superior player. When push comes to shove, you can’t show that Kobe is better than Lebron, Dirk, Duncan, et al., they can only hide behind what their preconceived notions would have them believe.
April 28th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Put LeBron in the damn West, you guys act like the Pistons have no business as an elite basketball team. If LeBron was the Laker SG, even assuming Bynum stays out, the team would go 16 and 0,1 or 2 this postseason. The guy is the new breed, ahead of his time. Kobe is an elite player, but LeBron is the best player in the game.
LeBron is clearly better than Paul, Dwight Howard and KG too, I don’t mean to just slight Kobe.
April 28th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
The Pistons aren’t an elite team, they just think they are. Team wins one damn title and they act like they are God’s gift or something.
April 28th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
if Lebron is the best player in the game, than he should win the MVP this year.
April 28th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Gasol is ELITE but Kobe isn’t?!? Oh boy…
So Gasol to be an Elite player he should be a top tier inside player which any person with a minimum of common sense (they don’t have need any basketball knowledge) knows that’s not true.
I like Gasol and i’m biased towards him because i’ve seen him play since he was on the junior team of Spain but c’mon now. Gasol is not elite.
Gasol didn’t win a playoff game without a supporting cast, Kobe didn’t win a playoff series without a supporting cast, but Gasol is ELITE and Kobe’s not. Funny how this works in someone obsessed mind.
April 28th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
@irish, don’t worry about the “live and die by the jumper” attitude from media and some people. Those were the same people that said the Mavs would beat the Hornets based on “playoff experience”.
And it’s not like the Magic don’t have one of the best inside players in the NBA…
April 28th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
The Pistons, Gasol and Kobe are all elite, LeBron is some word that is clearly better than elite.
April 28th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
@ch40s- i have watched every single Magic game this year. They get wide open threes because of all the attention to Dwight. TBL said that earlier about the live and die by the three. Its okay with me, its pick your poison with the Magic.
April 28th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
@cbh thank you! with all the media ass kissing you would think they have won every finals since 2000
April 28th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
@mmonasty- who you talking about, the CAvs? Cleveland gets about ten blowjobs a day on ESPN. How many times do you hear about the MAgic compared to the Cavs?
April 28th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
No problem, mmonast, elite teams don’t lose 2 games in the first round to an under .500 team. No matter how up and coming that team is.
April 28th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
@irish, i think he was talking about the pistons
April 28th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
I thought Rashard Lewis was phenomenal this weekend. When his J wasn’t droppin in the early 4th, he was smart enough to recognize this and consistently take his man off the dribble the next 4-5 times he touched the ball. Nelson played well too and when DH has to be constantly double teamed, it let’s the others go off. I think the Magic beat DET/PHILA in round 2, and I could see them beating the C’s. I mean, when your the Celtics and no one on your team has won a championship, everyone talks about how hungry you are blah blah blah, you gotta sweep an 8th seed 10 games under .500. We also don’t know how ANY of the C’s stars will react under pressure, since none of them have individually accomplished shit in the playoffs.
April 28th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
my man quin snyder coke binge, bout time we got a comment from you
April 28th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
@tommy z- who and what are you and why talk to me
April 28th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
All 3 of their main guys have carried teams to their respective conference finals. If that isn’t “shit,” then no team has accomplished “shit” until they’ve won a Finals. That’s a pretty high standard, no? If so, only the Spurs and Pistons have accomplished anything.
April 28th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
its not the cavs fault espn is oblivious to how good a player is in the beast…and if anything the media is extremely critical of cavs and lbj…i cant remember a playoff series (except last yr 1st rd vs wash) that we were favorites…its always so and so will beat the cavs not good enough only lbj etc etc
and ya i was talking about the pistons
April 28th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
@mmonasty- i knew you were. Just giving you some more shit
@nick p - dont hate on the guy because he is picking the Magic
April 28th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
He can pick whoever he wants; his reasoning is flawed though.
April 28th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
gotcha irish…but i would say i dont know who gets moire negative press than lb in terms of his play and teams performance
if he passes that shot and west misses all you hear from idiots like jay mariotti and skip bayless is how scared lebron is for taking winning shots and how he has no killer instinct
April 28th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
just because you dont agree with it nick p.
April 28th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Actually everyone on your Cavs have Finals experience. When’s the last time KG got outta the first round? The C’s were any good? Ray Allen wasn’t injured come playoff time?
April 28th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
You said none of their stars have accomplished shit. I think your standard for accomplishing things is a bit high. Is making a conference finals “something?”
April 28th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Obviously making the CF is something, but these aren’t players who consistently have done that on their own. These are players who have never sniffed Finals competition on their own, and are suddenly now in a situtation where if they DON’T reach the finals, it’s a bust. I don’t know how they’ll react to that. Their supporting cast is held together by a lot of young, inexperienced players (Perkins, Big Baby, Rondo). And Cassell shoots so much I would never let him on the floor. I’m not saying that they won’t make it simply because of their inexperience, I’m saying its a factor to look at. That, combined with the fact that Orlando is a team I think matches up well with them and has a dominate player they can’t stop (Howard), is why I think the Magic will create problems for them.
April 28th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
man Quin Snyder, i dont think i could of said that any better.
April 28th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Can we all agree that you have to have players around you to win? Ok.. good. So we can move on?
Pippen won 55 games without MJ.. by the way. People forget this and dismiss it if they remember it.