Top Shelf: Another Letdown Brewing in Philly
NHL May 12th. 2008, 10:55am
Lee Diekemper recaps the night in the NHL playoffs.
Pittsburgh 4, Philadelphia 2: Painful loss in a lot of ways for the Flyers – mostly losing to a guy who everyone thought had a broken foot. Pens’ forward Max Talbot was thought to be lost for the playoffs with a broken right foot, but in his first game back, alone in front of the net, Talbot took a no-look, backhand pass from behind the net by Gary Roberts to net the game-winner. There was a scary moment when Braydon Coburn’s face got in the way of a shot. Don Cherry was likely happy with this fight. Pittsburgh leads series 2-0.
53 Responses to “Top Shelf: Another Letdown Brewing in Philly”
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May 12th, 2008 at 11:10 am
Was at the game last night – my first Stanley Cup playoff experience. Incredible atmosphere and intensity.
Hey Mellon Arena – way to show not ONE replay of the goal/no goal in the first period. Seriously, how can you keep the paying fans in the dark for 5+ minutes?
May 12th, 2008 at 11:17 am
This series proves Western Conference >>>>>> Eastern Conference
May 12th, 2008 at 11:18 am
How pissed off would the crowd have been if they’d seen the replay at the time? It looked like a goal to me. They probably didn’t want the crowd to go apeshit when they waved it off.
And speaking of being robbed, the Americans got completely screwed at the World Championships against Finland yesterday. The puck went in through the side of the net and counted. The kicker is that they actually reviewed the play! It clearly missed the net and went through the sides. To top if off, the Americans lost by one goal.
May 12th, 2008 at 11:19 am
It really sucks that TBL crashes about 75% of the times I try to load the page. I think its the Fantasy Players banner. It’ll say its loading in the bottom of my window, then says there’s an error and the Internet browser needs to close.
With that being said, what a win. Tyler Kennedy was a man possessed last night, and not just for the fight. He was everywhere. And I was kinda perturbed that the annoucers called Mike Richards “The Best two-way player of his generation (under-25). Little early for that assumption. Sure, the kid is good, but let’s not rush to judgement on a guy with 141 career points in 211 career games.
May 12th, 2008 at 11:20 am
PSMP – What are you viewing the site on?
May 12th, 2008 at 11:24 am
TBL – IE. Work doesn’t use Firefox. 75% is about right. I’d comment more than I usually do, but its a crapshoot, basically.
May 12th, 2008 at 11:26 am
How do you figure that?
May 12th, 2008 at 11:27 am
try hitting the esc button the instant the page loads. that helps sometimes.
May 12th, 2008 at 11:27 am
Detroit is in the West. Isn’t that the most simple answer? I think the Pittsburgh series is better hockey right now. Dallas isn’t bringing their A game to the table at all.
May 12th, 2008 at 11:28 am
i thought it was funny as hell the music that was playing during kennedy’s fight.
May 12th, 2008 at 11:28 am
Battlin Billy – the thing is the review took so long that most of us just called friends at home watching the game. Plus, the “luxury” areas in front of my section as well as the monitors around the arena had the versus feed. So I’d say 90% of us knew what was going on anyway, and we still went apeshit.
May 12th, 2008 at 11:31 am
Does anyone else think ESPN is going to regret (a la Rush L.) the Don Cherry experiment. It’s just a matter of time before something really xenophobic (beyond the usual) comes out of his mouth.
May 12th, 2008 at 11:34 am
Deep down inside, I’d say that’s what they want. Did ESPN really take the hit for the Rush Limbaugh comment? Not that I recall. Limbaugh looked like the idiot. Same thing here. Will ESPN take the blame? Doubtful. It will be Cherry that looks like the idiot (as per usual) and ESPN will move on.
May 12th, 2008 at 11:34 am
Nobody cares about the verbal fellate given to Richards by the announcers? I mean, anytime an announcer gives the slightest praise to Sid, the hockey world gets their panties in a bunch. But blatantly calling Richards “the best” two way player seems a bit presumptious (sorry if thats spelled wrong). Even look at a guy like Jordan Staal. His 29 goals last season are moer than Richards has in his career. Plus, he’s so sound defensively, showing that when he clearly wanted the puck more that any Flyers player, resulting in the ENer at the end.
May 12th, 2008 at 11:34 am
cherry has pushed the boundaries already with his “i have to be careful wearing pink… guys at the wrong bar will want to hold my hand” line and the other night when he called detroit “redneck” which TBL linked over the weekend.
but i think that’s why they hired cherry: to get non-NHL fans to watch, expected a car wreck.
problem with limbaugh was he didn’t have just a wreck, he ran off the road into someone’s house.
May 12th, 2008 at 11:36 am
@jimmy – i have been watching hockey highlights just to hear what Don Cherry says on ESPN. I think they are giving him enough rope to hang himself if you catch my drift
May 12th, 2008 at 11:38 am
yeah, that was a bit much. and i do notice that when people say the same thing about crosby or (gasp!) ovechkin, people freak, especially on the blog.
hell, one could make an argument that malkin is better than crosby (mullet melrose for example). though cherry mocked malkin for being invisible last night. gee, where is malkin from again???
May 12th, 2008 at 11:42 am
PS Im wrong about that goal stat regarding Staal and Richards. I meant that in two short seasons, Staal had a better scoring season than Richards (Staal 29, Richards 28).
May 12th, 2008 at 11:47 am
It was nice to see the praise Richards is getting outside of Philly. Yeah it was a bit much, but well deserved.
May 12th, 2008 at 11:49 am
Yes, I’m a Detroit fan, but that has nothing to do with the fact that the Western Conference is superior to the Eastern Conference. Western conference teams control the puck better, have better goalies, play better defense, etc.
May 12th, 2008 at 11:55 am
Richards is a very good player. Maybe it was a little hyperbolic, but the kid is solid.
Cherry is right, Evgeni Malkin sucks. The Pens should trade him for a good old Canadian boy (but not a French-Canadian, because Cherry doesn’t like them either).
May 12th, 2008 at 11:57 am
sportsgal – MAF has two more wins than either Turco or Osgood, and leads the remaining goalies with 2 shutouts. His save percentage is .002 worse than Osgood, and is better than Turco. His GAA is .4 behind Osgood and better than Turco. This is no personal attack, but saying goaltending/defense is better in the west is just foolish. And this is in 2 less games than the Wings. Sure, Hasek played 4 games, making Osgood play 2 less than MAF, but MAF is clearly the difference. Plus, he doesn’t butt-end a dude’s face then lie about it.
May 12th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
I don’t understand how anyone could possibly say the West is better than the East with a straight face. Pittsburgh with Fleury in net has proven they are a top 3 or 2 NHL team as they are just running through this conference.
I actually think for the first time in a while that the East has much much much better offensive teams than the west. Pittsburgh, Montreal, Philadelphia, and Washington are just explosive offensive teams at any moment. Meanwhile the West has plodding Anaheim, Nashville and Minesota setting back offensive hockey.
I’m still waiting to see some proof that the better goalies are in the West too. When the number 1 seed in the West changes goalies mid postseason thats not saying much.
May 12th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Osgood didn’t lie about catching the guy in the face, he said he didn’t do it intentionally.
By the way, you’re proving my point by saying your goalie is “clearly the difference.” Osgood doesn’t need a shutout because the rest of the team is carrying their weight and playing well. Your goalie shouldn’t be the reason why you remain in the hunt for the trophy, he should be a small piece of the puzzle getting you there.
May 12th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
That’s quite the blanked statement there Sportsgal. I guess the Pens would have had a hard time making the playoffs in the Western Conference then?
May 12th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
Err, I mean that’s “quite the blanket” statement. But anyway, we’ll see if the Pens can hope to maybe steal a game against the mighty Wings or Stars. They didn’t seem so intimidated when they went 8-1-1 against the West during the regular season.
Agreed. MAF is playing very well, but he’s not the reason the Pens are rolling through the playoffs right now.
May 12th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
He said he didn’t do it intentionally. I’m sorry, but its a lie. Arms don’t spasm the way his did. Then he flopped. If a goalie can withstand 100 MPH shots to that same chest area, then a love-tap (it wasn’t a full swing) to the chest shouldn’t knock you over.
MAF isn’t the ONLY difference. After dominating the Rangers, Shanahan (I believe) said the Penguins are blocking shots on a level he hasn’t seen before. Its how Tampa won the Cup and its why Therrien has stressed shot blocking. But when shots DO get to the net, Fleury is stopping them. Especially against teams like Philly New York and Ottawa, who have primarily played guys right in front of the crease, trying to get garbage goals. And I doubt Detroit’s wing-to-wing passing has been as crisp as the Penguins’ has.
May 12th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Watch a game before you make a statement like that. I’ve watched every Detroit game and almost every Pittsburgh game. No team passes as well as Detroit. Can we get a non-biased opinion here? Obviously no Pens fan will agree with me, and I’m a Wings fan so no one will belive I can be objective.
And I said he didn’t intentionally try to hit the guy in the face. Yes, he stuck his stick out trying to slow the guy down since he was on his way to hit one of Osgood’s teammates. But he didn’t stand there looking at the guy and aim for his face.
May 12th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
I don’t buy the whole Western conference is better than the Eastern conference either, but the Pens fans (a bit drunk on your team’s success?) shouldn’t get too carried away in hating on Detroit.
Detroit is completely legit. I’m never going to be sold on Osgood, but it might not even matter. Zetterberg and Datsyuk are as good as it gets and the Pens have no one close to Lidstrom (then again, not a lot of teams do).
May 12th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
I’m not hating on Detroit, and I picked them to meet the Pens in the finals before the playoffs started.
I have watched the Detroit games. The passing is good, but it can’t be argued that its BETTER than Pittsburgh’s. When you have arguably the best passer in the league on a line with guys with chemistry from a former team like Dupuis and Hossa, its hard to say another team’s passing is better. The Roberts pass to Talbot to win the game? With his back turned to the play all while knowing the defenseman’s stick wasn’t clogging the correct lane? And this is 3rd and 4th liners.
And regarding Osgood, he still intentionally tried to hit him. I don’t care where, thats a dirty play. You’re telling me a goalie, who has such control over his body as to make diving saves/glove saves/stick saves/poke checks doesn’t know where the butt end of his stick is in relation to Ribeiro? You can’t argue goaltending is better in the West, then say Osgood wasn’t trying to catch Ribeiro’s face. He’s 8-0 in the playoffs because he knows how to control himself and his equipment.
My argument wasn’t to say Pittsburgh > Detroit, only to say that the Western Conference > Eastern Conference thing was absurd. Based on, as Dirty Sanchez said, quite the blanket statement.
May 12th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Osgood’s statement:
The video shows him stick his stick into Ribeiro’s face. That’s dirty. And its a lie.
May 12th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
well at least the west>east statement has guaranteed whoever wins this series is beating detroit, im happy
has briere played in any of these games?
May 12th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Meh? My link to the butt-end video is being moderated?
May 12th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
Not a blanket statement, I’ve watched hockey all season and have formed that opinion based on the level of play I’ve seen both in person and on TV.
Yes, I’m telling you Osgood didn’t say to himself, “I’m going to put my stick out there and hope it hits the guy’s face.” Compared to the rest of the bullshit the Stars pulled during game 2, Osgood’s stick move couldn’t be anywhere near the top of the “dirty play” argument. Did you watch every period of Game 2? Sounds like you listened to Barry Melrose and formed your opinion from his statements instead of watching the game.
I don’t know how someone like yourself who claims to be a hockey fan can make a statement saying Osgood putting his stick out correlates to my West > East opinion. Give me a break, dude.
May 12th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
I don;t listen to Barry Melrose. And this Osgood bullshit does not go along with the East>West blanket statement. I put that in my original rebuttal as a slight jab at the end.
You haven’t responded to the fact that the Pens were 8-1-1 against the West. You’re assuming (just as you claim I am) that Osgood wasn’t trying to hit Ribeiro’s face. You say goaltending is better in the West when 2 of the 3 Vezina finalists are from the East.
If a guy gets crosschecked in the back in the opening period of a game, does that allow someone to purposefully hurt another player later in the game? Any dirty play by the Stars earlier in the game doesn’t justify butt-ending a guy’s face.
Please save the assumptions before you try to criticize me.
“Claims to be a hockey fan.” Wow. Awesome.
May 12th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Absolutly
I have been watching the Eastern Conference playoffs all season (and many Eastern Conference Games) and there’s no question the West is better than the East. Not even close.
Pittsburgh is the only team that would be a “top” team in the West. Montreal, the East one seed, couldn’t win one Western division and would struggle to make the playoffs in the West. I think the Habs would have been in the 8-spot in the west.
May 12th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
You’re going to hate this, but I have 3 words for this… East Coast Bias.
The West has the better overall goaltending… Bryzgolav, Giguere, Turco, Nabokov, and that’s just the Pacific Division.
May 12th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
MAF, Lundqvist, Brodeur, DiPietro, Biron.
Those are just the Atlantic.
4 of ‘em made the playoffs.
2 of ‘em are Vezina finalists.
MAF was gone for a substantial part of the season, while his backup propelled us to the top of the East. And now he has more wins and shutouts in the playoffs than anyone else.
I’m not hating on the West/Detroit/any of that nonsense. I just don’t agree with the blanket statement that the West is better than the East. Our division alone made up half the teams in this end of the playoffs. And we still finished with the 2 seed despite playing playoff teams for the bulk of the season.
May 12th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Who did Detroit play in their division? The 8 seed in the playoffs, an overachieving Blackhawks squad with talented rooks and utter jokes like Columbus and St. Louis.
May 12th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Outside the Atlantic the Goalies are weak in the Eastern Conference. Vokoun is good in Fl. But who else is there? Huet…? Miller..?
If every team were put into one division and played similar schedules I think of the top 10 teams in standings this season 3 would be from the Eastern Conference. NYR, Pittsburgh, and Montreal. Only one of those would have been in the top 5 (Pitt).
And Franzen, Holmstrom and Cleary (or Morrow, Hagman and Lehtonin) are salivating at those Juicy rebounds that both Biron and Fleury like to leave out there. Pittsburgh and Philly won’t be getting those from either Osgood or Turco.
And that same backup that helped Pittsburgh was run out of the Western conference because he sucks.
May 12th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
As much as I like hating against the Wings.. you may want to take a look at their record outside their division…30-7-3 against the rest of the West and 7-2-1 against the East.
May 12th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Even I didn’t know Detroit’s record against the rest of the conference was 30-7-3!! That’s insane!
May 12th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Pittsburgh has yet to really score on rebounds. Most of our goals have come on redirected passes or clean shots.
I know your head is in the right place, but you’re still basing this on assumptions. If the teams were in one division…
Detroit was only 17-12-3 against a horrible division (their own). Pittsburgh played 3 other playoff teams and still managed a 15-14-3 record in the Atlantic. You think the Pens couldn’t benefit from playing a number of games against the Blues?
Pittsburgh had the best record against the opposing division of any team in the league. They only lost one regulation game against the West, and the West needed overtime to beat the Pens in another game. Detroit had 2 regulation losses, one overtime loss and one less win against the East in relation to Pittsburgh. And this is the West 1 seed.
I keep giving stats, but everyone who says West>East is using opinion.
May 12th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
I need to go chat w my boss. I’m not hiding from any healthy chatter if you don’t hear from me in a bit. I shall return
May 12th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
What does this say about the rest of the West seeing as how Detroit was only 17-12-3 in their division? Barely above .500 against the Blues and Co., but awesome against, perhaps, a weaker than assumed West?
Now, I really gotta go. Be back in a few minutes, friends.
May 12th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Hey Jibble – Has Malkin snuck into your top 10 yet?
What juicy rebounds from Fleury? Perhaps 2 years ago that would have been true.
There’s only one way this will be settled and that’s in the Finals, and it’s not a guarantee that the Penguins will get there. If and when that happens then I’m sure this will all resume.
May 12th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Yeah Malkin is in my top 10, now. (But still behind Zetterburg and Datsyuk FYI)
You keep giving Pittsburgh stats. And I have said Pittsburgh would be in the elite in either conference. It’s the other 14 teams in the East that suck compared to the West.
Here’s some stats. Against the West this season the East is 67-67-16. The West against the East is 83-53-14.
In a league where any slightly above crappy team can finish above .500 (seriously teams under .500 this season: Atl, Tampa, NYI, St. Louis, Columbus, LA Kings), 67-67-16 is pitiful.
That “Awful” Central you wanted to play against went 28-17-5 against the East. The West dominated the Eastern conference, with the noteable exception of Pittsburgh, this season
May 12th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Ok, you’ve put Pit is elite company, but it seems everyone else is just saying West>East IMO.
I’m using Pittsburgh stats and Detroit stats for the most part, because they are the teams that look destined to put the West vs East comparison in an actual game that means something.
I enjoy the stat the Detroit is 30-7-3 against the West. However, if the 1 seed in the conference can’t put up similar numbers against their own division, does that mean Detroit is as good as people claim, or is the rest of the West just not as good as thought. Both conferences have good teams and bad teams, with the bad teams contributing to that bulk stat of conference records against the other conference. This is why I’m sticking to primarily Detroit and Pittsburgh. They’re still left. The Islanders and Blackhawks aren’t.
And for the record, I’ve not made one comment of East>West. I know how good the West is. I’ve been nervous about the possibility of playing Detroit since early in the season. I’m merely trying to show that the East is better than some people assume. I’ve seen several West>East, or West>>>>East comments backed up with nothing but hope and personal ideas. Its a good conference, but not as over the top as some people would like to think.
May 12th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
How did this turn into a Detroit vs Pittsburgh debate?
May 12th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
It became more and more clear West >>> East.
May 12th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
The Western Conference has better depth. But Pittsburgh would be an elite team in either conference. However, a team like Nashville would probably be a 5-6 seed in the Eastern Conference. Most of that disparity is because the Southeast Division is so pitiful (sorry, but it is). Whereas just Los Angeles was the weak sister in the Western Conference this year.
As far as Pittsburgh’s play – Fleury is confident because his team is confident. Pittsburgh is playing a very well-rounded game. Occasionally you’ll see some unnecessary fanciness from the forwards (particularly Crosby), but the Pens are content to grind it out with teams. And their attention to their own zone is impressive.
Detroit might be a tad better simply because of the playoff experience most of the roster has – especially Stanley Cup Finals experience. Pittsburgh has confidence and the Pens are a supremely skilled team, as skilled as Detroit.
May 12th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
I love that Jesus always seems to agree with me for the most part. Even if it’s about hockey, It makes me feel better about my lot in life.
May 13th, 2008 at 8:05 am
@jibblescribits1:
Well, keep writing balanced posts and we’ll get along just fine.