What are the Chances Celtics-Pistons is This Good?
NBA, Video May 20th. 2008, 6:15pmIt seems unlikely. We’re not one of those 80’s NBA snobs; we greatly enjoy today’s product. Sure, the players from the elite teams in the 80’s seem to be much more fundamentally-sound, but that’s not a novel concept and there’s point in traveling down that bumpy road. Watch. Enjoy. And try not to think about Isiah’s struggles with the Knicks. See you for the lottery banter around 8:30.
280 Responses to “What are the Chances Celtics-Pistons is This Good?”
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May 20th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
i’m praying my heat get beasley tonight.. please please get one of the top 2 picks.. fuck..
May 20th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
6 OR 7 76-73 type game is my guess, or as Bill Simmons calls it, a rock fight.
So i am thinking the lottery drawing will be more exciting
May 20th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
then you should hope they get the 2nd pick!
because although there’s plenty of time left, they really need a PG
May 20th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
give me beasley over rose TBL.. they need a big man just as much as they need a point guard IMO and i dont think rose = chris paul or deron williams.. but i do think beasley can be garnett or duncan..
May 20th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
No Laimbeer, No Moustache, not the same!
May 20th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Isiah was AWESOME. Best Piston of my lifetime.
Thanks for renewing my Celtic hatred, TBL. Waiting for the obligatory video of either Parrish slapping Laimbeer like a little bitch or Laimbeer’s cool take down of Bird.
May 20th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
any one else heard that new song by the game, called “game’s pain”? good stuff..
May 20th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
I agree with Cortes- I’d much rather have Beasley than Rose.
May 20th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
I hope it’s a good game TBL, but honestly, I’m not holding my breath.
May 20th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
I just hope the Timberwolves actually get luck and move up for once.
/Fully expecting to pick 6th
May 20th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
What I loved about that clip was there was no lame soundtrack clips blasting on the PA, no PA douche screaming everytime someone made a shot, no stupid sound effects, none of the crap.
The fans didn’t need cues in when to cheer or jeer, and the squeaking of the shoes on the court served as a constant backdrop to the play-by-play.
Damn the NBA was great in the 80’s.
May 20th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
wildcat – it was completely different then. not just the presentation, but the game also.
not nearly as much flopping going on. i think the flopping is the single worst thing that has happened to the game in the last 20 years.
May 20th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Wow is this game being played below the rim. And I think every single player has the same bicept size. Apparently not believers in the “Big Bi and Tri Day.”
May 20th, 2008 at 7:48 pm
Can I get an over/under on Kevin Garnett scoring 100 points in the series?
/I’d take the under
May 20th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
pistons in 6 or 7.. garnett under 85 points this series..
May 20th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
flopping is worse than guaranteed lottery contracts and the one and done. nice orginal thought Chelsea, isnt that a gay name?
May 20th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
dickhead_rick, you are truly a dickhead.
May 20th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
chelsea chris – you are truly a homo. Are you even from Detroit, or do you just hop and harass people on line?
May 20th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
kevin lost lost 13 pounds. who didn’t get jay bilas the memo?
May 20th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
Who are the four media members who got to be with the envelopes in the back room?
May 20th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
that jay z interview was priceless. he looked so as uncomfortable as i do in the kitchen. and then he professes his love for OJ Mayo and drops in a Sonny Vaccaro reference?
David Stern just shit himself
May 20th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
jay bilas thinks this is STUPID!
// dan le batard
May 20th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
crazy prediction: Stern feels bad about the whole McHale-Joe Smith-salary cap deal, and the T-Wolves get the first pick.
Beasley and AL Jefferson!
May 20th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
Yeah the Jay-Z reaction was GREAT
May 20th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
bos in 5
May 20th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
d wade, ‘win-win situation’ WTF is he talking about?
May 20th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
As long as NY doesn’t get high enough to draft D-Rose is really all I care about… Can’t have Chi-town carrying New York back to the top in ANY fashion
May 20th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
jay z, ha, enjoy 10th and the later pick
May 20th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
no way
May 20th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
BULLS ON THE RISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 20th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
i need to resume being a bulls fan i think.
May 20th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
need that chicago market to be strong …
ha, knicks fall to 6
May 20th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
poor Grizz. who got shafted? if it’s miami, i’ll laugh my ass off … oh, not the sonics!!!!!!!!!!!
May 20th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
dantoni looked fuckin pissed.
May 20th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
Knicks no.6 THANK YOU !!!
May 20th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
fucking seattle. dammit.
May 20th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
There are more Miami fans at the lottery party than at the majority of their basketball games.
May 20th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
Sucks the sonics couldnt bring in either Beasley or Rose
May 20th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
I think that’ll be a common look for him this year.
May 20th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
mike mussina – 7 runs, just 1 earned in 2/3 of an inning
hahahahahahaha
May 20th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
That’s b/c Phil Jackson just told him to “sit the fuck down”
May 20th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
Makes me smile looking at that one TBL!!
May 20th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
oh shut up cursed!… come on man.. give me a top 2 pick.. im nervous
May 20th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
Let the record show I would probably take Candace Parker over either of the Lopez brothers.
May 20th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Schanwald always looking snazzy!
May 20th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Are they playing Who wants to be a millionaire music?
May 20th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
yeah baby. go bulls.
May 20th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Bulls #1!!!
May 20th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
To late for D’antoni to come over?
May 20th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
Hoiberg looked like he just swallowed a toad.
May 20th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
that’s a terrible endorsement by dropping the digits
but the Bulls gotta go Beasley
they have no inside offense
May 20th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
fuck the bulls
May 20th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
If the BULLS don’t take hometown kid D-Rose then the owner should “Go Kill Himself”
May 20th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
even though Rose is from Chicago, how can you not go Beasley? Unless you want to trade Hinrich …
i think the Bulls are close enough to being very good – sexy pick to win the East last fall – that Beasley puts them over the top
May 20th, 2008 at 8:27 pm
Beasley is so much better than Rose it’s unreal, but they’re gonna take Rose I fear. Good thing I’m getting out while I still can.
May 20th, 2008 at 8:27 pm
im praying the bulls take rose.. i want beasley man.. you can keep rose and his one month of good basketball
May 20th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
GREAT PG’s make your inside game better and yeah get rid of Kirk
May 20th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
Hinrich is locked up for five more years; he’s making $10 mil next year.
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/chicago.htm
You can’t just ‘get rid’ of him … how can they not go beasley?
May 20th, 2008 at 8:31 pm
Question is how will McHale fuck up the draft this year?
May 20th, 2008 at 8:31 pm
Bulls fans overwhelmingly want Rose
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-080520-nba-draft-lottery-chicago-bulls-poll,0,6858240,post.poll
May 20th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
take OJ Mayo?
May 20th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
I wonder if D’Antoni is on the horn with his agent looking for a way out
dude could have gotten paid AND get the No. 1 pick
May 20th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
Sorry to ask an unrelated question but this is making me mental. Does anyone know how to fix firefox so that when I’m about to click an embedded link on a page, it will display at the bottom the address if I hold my cursor over the link? HELP!
May 20th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
interesting it was two west teams getting the top two cant miss guys, and this year the east gets the influx of talent
May 20th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
how can this guy write this last night and not mention Rose would have to leap the Hinrich hurdle to start?
If they let Ben Gordon walk, would they really make Hinrich the 2?
May 20th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
Hoopshype is a great source (one of my favorite basketball info sites)
If Kirk is so valuable then he can be moved no problem
I KNOW mine is just a “Pipe-Dream” and everybody is going for Beasley but Rose has such a combination of skill-strength-quickness that it’s Scary the things he’s going to be able to do in the NBA
And THAT’s the kind of player I would want on my team
May 20th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
SG
if you put your cursor over the link, look at the bottom left corner of the screen
should show up
May 20th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
Taking OJ would be a fuck up, although he’s #3 on Chad Ford’s top 100. Nothing makes sense anymore…..
May 20th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
The Bulls have lacked a post presence for years. They stockpiled pieces for a major trade, then whiffed on KG, Jermaine O’neill, and Pau Gasol. They ended up with Drew fucking Gooden. They passed on Lamarcus Aldridge (polished) for a leaper/defensive stopper in Ty Thomas. They still have nothing down low.
Beasley is the pick. If Paxson fucks this up, it’ll be great for the Cavs.
May 20th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
Bulls will screw this up, guaranteed. The question is, what will they do with NEXT years lottery pick?
May 20th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
Damn T’Wolves…always something. So do we take Mayo or Lopez?
Nonetheless, 2 season tickets to the T’Wolves just cost me $258!!
Arrive, go up to the nosebleeds, wait until the 2nd quarter and walk down to court side. All for a whopping $258!! Gotta love the “pay the pick” special.
May 20th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
A pair for 41 games???
$258?
May 20th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
archuleta sucks ball
May 20th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
If you start to hear silence from Mark Jackson it is because he is making a phone call to Reinsdorf
May 20th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
i think the twolves gotta go with Lopez. give Al Jefferson some help, let brewer and foye and i guess mccants handle the scoring
May 20th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
damn good point
and funny, too
May 20th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
lopez sucks bad, I think that would be a big mistake
May 20th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
TBL, that’s where I was used to seeing it, but it doesn’t show up anymore. I’ve checked my internet settings, the toolbars, etc and can’t find anything that would change/remove the preview link window.
My two cents on the Bulls, if they don’t choose the best available player in the draft (Beasley), then Paxson should be disowned from the organization. He should even get that 3pt shot from the finals removed from the team’s history.
May 20th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Let Brewer handle the scoring?
That’s pretty funny.
May 20th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
Nick…yeah, the T’Wolves had a special where you would “pay the pick.” So if they got the #1 pick, it would be $1 per game, #2 would be $2 per game and so on. Granted they are in the nose bleeds, but no one goes to the game so you walk down to the lower-level in the 2nd quarter. Hell, I could go to the big games and sell the rest for $5 and make a profit.
May 20th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Avery not on the halftime show either. That Bulls job looks a lot better. Mike D’antoni probably should have waited until after the lottery to make a decision
May 20th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
That’s fucking incredible, Moz
May 20th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
why does lopez suck? you can’t have five prom queens, man. you need role players.
and brewer had a rough freshman NBA campaign … maybe im dumb, but he’s a sick talent who will come around.
May 20th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
I like your thinking Mozz. I might have to look into that one. How long do I have to buy them?
May 20th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
other options for hinrich:
* trade him and his $10 million salary. good luck finding a taker who is going to give you $10 mil in junk in return. i’d say Chris Wilcox and his expiring, plus something else …
(we interrupt this post to bring you a ray allen AIRBALL)
May 20th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
If McHale really wants to McHale this draft, he should take Eric Gordon.
May 20th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Damn I didnt think Hinrich made that much. He is making as much as Steve Nash for crying out loud
May 20th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
poor ray allen
he’s so rattled
May 20th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
not a fan, huh?
i’d take him over Mayo in a heartbeat.
May 20th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
What in God’s name has happened to
Nick AndersonRay Allen?May 20th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
Hawk, you should have a while. They have quite a few tickets left.
For the T’Wolves, do you try and package McCants or Foye and your 3rd pick to Miami for the 2nd and next year’s 1st?
Mayo – So if he’s our SG, where does Foye, McCants & Brewer play?
Bayless – Again, he’s more of a SG I think, but like Foye, a short SG
Lopez – Has the height, not polished, but gives us somewhat of a potential future center
Or do we trade the 3rd and move down and take a Hibbert in the 11-15 range? My prediction – Beasley, Rose, Mayo
May 20th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
ALOT of players are going to be traded this off-season so really almost anything is possible and YEAH Chicago has a history of fucking-lousy draft picks
May 20th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
I think Mayo is the pick, Moz.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
yo hef where you at man???? 3-1 marlins.. how’s it feel losing uggla to us.. bitch! =]
May 20th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Yeah I think Mayo actually will be a pretty good NBA player.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
So do you try and trade McCants then? Drafting Mayo and keeping McCants basically eliminates the possibility of Brewer developing into any sort of player.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Hibbert is more of “Project” than Lopez… I wouldn’t take him that high
And Mayo is going to better than ALOT of people think. I’m somewhat amazed how someone can have So Many Haters and NOT be from Duke
May 20th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Phoenix has the 15th pick. Primetime Hibbert range for ya Moz. Come on McHale. Steve Kerr go hire a Celtic now!
May 20th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
I’d love to see the Wolves trade up, but the Heat and Bulls will never trade down. I’d like to see them move down, pick up a player or two and perhaps draft Love.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
@ Moz–I’d probably trade McCants, personally I think Brewer will be better than him.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
@HawkEye, the last thing I want is another Kevin Love discussion
May 20th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
Moz. I don’t think Brewer will ever be a player. His ceiling is a taller Bruce Bowen.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
well played. i may borrow that.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
chad ford has that Italian kid Gallinari going to the Knicks. I hope that is because the kid can play and not just because of the D’Antoni-Italy connection.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
i can’t see miami doing this
this discussion would have to include al jefferson
May 20th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
you saw him in college, right? the kid could be a scottie pippen-type player. what is he, 21?
May 20th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
absolutely TBL.. i will speak on beyond of pay riley and heat nation on any potential trade offers.. that pick is not even being talked about without al jefferson AND a future pick
May 20th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
I did. He was very limited on offense. His handles are weak, and he’s a bad jump shooter. He looked like a rock star a few times playing against weak competition, though.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
No doubt. Just hit me off with $25.99 and it’s all good. I drive a Jeep 25 miles to work everyday. Times are hard:)
May 20th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
@ tbl
I just think Lopez is a stiff. Love will be a better pro. also, i dont think that a tall version of bruce bowen is a bad thing (minus the cheap shots)
May 20th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
@blazers: I’m not saying he won’t have a career. He just won’t be that good. Bowen could only succeed on a few teams. If you have 3 weapons on the floor like Duncan, Manu, and Tony Parker, you can get away with a guy who’s there for only his defense. That wouldn’t work on many teams, though.
Can you imagine him on the Cavs, for instance? That’d be two guys that wouldn’t even need to be guarded (the other being Wallace). It would be a blood bath.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Wrangler or Cherokee? Sell that and pick up a point a to point b go-cart.
re: Lopez … i’ve only seen the guy half a dozen times, maybe 8. And for a big kid, he has a decent back to the basket game, a nice hook, and good hands. He is already miles ahead of mark madsen, and he’s far more mobile and skilled than the Collins brothers. Lopez will be a garbage pail center – boards, rebounds, and blocks. he’s long and pretty quick. I think next to Jefferson, he’ll be great.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
Umm…so I’ve been kicking the Twins ass in MLB ‘08 the show and I haven’t had the tv on…HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT…1.7% chance and they get the first pick!!!!!!! I love it.
With that said, the Bulls have to pick Beasley. I want Rose, but we NEED Beasley. The Bulls have NEVER had an inside presence like he can provide. And yes TBL, no one wants to trade for a 10/yr contract for a guy that went down in all of his numbers this year, is 6′0″, and will be obsolete in 4 years max
May 20th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
@dr. At least you have Larry Hughes!
May 20th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
This is real late, but:
Derrick Rose right now > Deron Williams three years ago
May 20th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
Guys like Foye and Eric Gordon owe a huge debt to Penny Wade. For some reason he made teams think undersized 2 guards work… they only work when you have Shaq. (or Odom/Butler)
BTW, how ‘Lil Penny is Charles Barkley? SOOOO ‘Lil Penny.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
@Nick: You know what’s funny? I have seen a total of 5 minutes of Larry Hughes playing for the Bulls. I didn’t really care for what I saw, but considering heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com I’ll take their word for it.
On the flip side of that trade, Drew Gooden>>>>>>>>>>Ben Wallace, so if nothing else a draw on that trade.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
@DrC … “and will be obsolete in 4 years max”
Which is EXACTLY why I would draft D-Rose
May 20th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
Sportsgal, View->StatusBar
No way one guy puts the Bulls over the top, maybe they can think playoffs but not anything more than that.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
Vegas, that’s not a shocker. D-Williams was a good college player, but never considered a great one. Rose is considered a great college player.
Regarding Lopez, no team is expecting him to be a scorer. All he needs to do is rebound and alter shots. If he gives you 10-12 points a game great, if not, not a big deal.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
@ChiTown: Here’s my logic for given the current make-up of the team, you draft Beasley: Beasley is the post player teams will have to play weak side defense on, which allows him to get the ball in the post, and kick out to Gordon, Deng, Hinrich, Thabo (although if he gets the ball he should he drive because he gets to timid with on open look) etc. They wont have to continuely drive, kick, drive, kick, because no one respected their shots in that tired old offense.
Also, it will depend on who they get to coach now too, and I suspect with the number one pick the Bulls coaching job just one year removed from a 49 win season and a number one pick looks a whole shitload better.
You have to go Beasley. DRose is sick, but your roster dictates alot of what you do. Make your case for Rose.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:32 pm
vegas, usually agree with your stuff.. but i object to the derrick rose stuff.. wouldn’t you agree that until the tournament CDR was the best player on that team? how can you take rose over beasley when he had ONE great month.. give me beasley
May 20th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
Dr. C, on the flip side, you have Deng, Gooden, Nocioni, Noah, Thomas as forwards. Do you really want to add Beasley and then keep Duhon as your back-up PG? I think those 4 guys are a better option at the forward positions than what Chicago has at their guard positions with Hinrich, Gordon and Hughes
May 20th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
Deron Williams could shoot in college. Rose shoots about as well as Wade.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
ive been staring at my screen amazed since I read about the pay the pick special for the twolves…that is insane…3 dollar tickets for the whole season??? really??
May 20th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
Coop, I love you! Thank you thank you thank you!
May 20th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
Oh Kobe…. just can’t stop…
http://www.thedirty.com/the-dirty/kobe-bryant-you-are-dirty
May 20th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
“how can you take rose over beasley when he had ONE great month”
First of all, I don’t know how CDR has any place in this discussion. He was a Junior- it’s not surprising that he was better at the beginning of the year than Rose.
And anyway, Rose has been considered the much better pro prospect all the way through. It’s not like he only came on the scene in March. Because of his conference, he wasn’t on TV a whole lot before then.
What, do you think he got lucky all month? It’s not like it was a six game fluke. He’s really, really good.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
clown.. why the shots at dwade.. come on man.. 2006 finals mvp.. hes a career 49 percent shooter as a fucking guard..
May 20th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
Time for Making-Mad-Moves ala Boston, Knicks couple of years ago and Damn-Near the whole Western Conf. this year…
Deng and Gordon are valuable chips and like I said earlier ALOT of players are going to be traded this off-season (Some really Good-to-Great players)… The Bulls need to get in that mix
May 20th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
no no vegas.. maybe i wrote it wrong.. im saying there was no doubt beasley was the best player on not only his team but in his conference.. i think rose is good, but my main point is this.. why was his play elevated in the tournament to a level he didnt reach in the season?
i dont disagree that rose is very good.. and the 2nd best player in this draft.. just that beasley is better..vegas who would you pick first?
May 20th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
Deron Williams shot 36% from 3 his last year at Illinois. Luther Head and Dee Brown were the shooters on that team.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
i just completely lost interest in that game. 41-40 at the half? I’ll watch the office on TBS at 10 and 1030 and check in for the 4th.
re: Rose – There’s zero question he’s going to be a stud at the next level. I can see him being more Chris Paul than Deron Williams. I think Rose will be as good a defender as Paul, and the only thing that will hold him back is his jumper, but the kid’s not even 21 yet.
CDR abused a shitty conference and had a good tourney because few people had players his size that could match him. There are plenty of long 6-7 or 6-8 SFs in this league that will contain him. I dont know about his defense, either. I wouldn’t gamble on him in the lottery
May 20th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
@Moz: Duhon will not be back next year. If they draft Beasley, they starting line-up would be:
Noah
Gooden
Beasley
Deng
Hinrich
Reserves:
Thomas
Sefolosha
Nocioni
Gordon
Hughes
Gray
Think about the rebounding and guard change you could work with…has to be Beasley
May 20th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
career wise Mayo will be better than Rose.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:49 pm
mayo will be like marbury. good stats, but hes not a winner
May 20th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
“hes not a winner”
are you serious with that kind of analysis???
you almost made me bang my head against the wall until i passed out.. god, i hate that kind of analysis.. how about because rose is just better than mayo????
May 20th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
@blazers: couldn’t agree more. Mitch Richmond jr.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
that works too. but i can tell you that mayo is a me first guy like marbury. to me, that means he is not a winner.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
Why is he not a winner?
May 20th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
Why? Because Rose/Gordon/Deng/Gooden/Noah (or whatever) would be awful?
You can’t look one potential roster and say that HAS to be the solution. They got the #1 pick, obviously it’s going to look good either way.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
I’ve seen Mayo play in person 4 times in high school, two times to win a state title. I don’t know if that counts as winning…
But he did go to a USC team that had just lost its best player to the Association. What did you think would happen?
May 20th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
Mayo won at least THREE H.S. stste titles and HE cares more about basketball-n-winning than “Starbury” ever could
May 20th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
don’t know if anyone’s linked to this yet, but this could be the coolest thing I’ve ever seen.
Japanese TV is so beyond us its not even funny
http://www.thedirty.com/the-dirty/japanese-bug-fights
May 20th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
I laugh at the ole’ “Not a winner” mentality. Like Malone and Stocton aren’t “winners,” even though, the Jazz had less talent than every elite team that they had battles with
May 20th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
like i said, I think he is a selfish, me first guy. mostly hearsay I guess, but the time he spent here in cincy was not kind on his rep. he didnt make too many friends here
May 20th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
@Nick- People don’t like Mayo because they view him as a punk. I doubt it has much to do with how many games his team won. That’s just the easy thing to point to.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
Dr. C, you’re really going to put Deng at the 2? I don’t like that.
I’d rather have
Hinrich/Rose
Hughes/Gordon
Deng/Nocioni
Gooden/Thomas
Noah/Gray
May 20th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
ChiTown
With Bill Walker and another kid who signed at UAB. they also played in either div.3 or 4 in ohio, which is not very high. PLUS—–i really dont think high school title mean too much
May 20th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
@vegas: are they going to pay hughes/hinrich $23 MM to come off the bench for the next 2 years (for hughes) and 5 years (hinrich)?
When you can fill a need by getting a legit post presence (something they haven’t had since Brand left), you do it.
Considering I think Beasley’s the best player in the draft anyway, it makes all the more sense.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
Deng is untouchable. Try to tough him.. I dare you.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
i was waiting for cursed to chime in on the “not a winner” crap.. god.. you people are brainwashed with the pukey cliche’d analysis..
May 20th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
touch.. damn it.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
The point wasn’t the roster I arbitrarily threw together. The point was that you can’t look at one potential roster and say that’s the way you HAVE to go.
And yes, us having differing opinions on who is the best player probably has an effect on the discussion.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
Considering that his last 5 years of basketball, 4 was spent in High School there’s no other TRUE way to judge regarding his Production-n-Team success
May 20th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
My favorite foreigner in this draft (do I have to go with just one?).. is Italy’s Danilo Gallinari.. http://youtube.com/watch?v=HEYvgvsO82w
Only 19 years old. 6′10, but crafty like a guard with a solid first step, and he seems to attack the basket. But as per usual, he doesn’t miss a shot in this particular highlight tape.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
Chuck, the page won’t even load for me. I guess they have tons of traffic?
May 20th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
man, this site is like nothing but Japanese bug fights… my night is set
http://revver.com/video/585392/japanese-bug-fights-30/
May 20th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
@ cortes
to each his own I guess. I dont think im doing a very good job getting the point across that I was trying too. I wouldnt say that stockton and malone arent winners, and I dont think i’d call mayo a punk either. I think hes very, very talented but cares more about his own stats and money than anything else
May 20th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
A: Gordon is not a starter. He cannot play defense in any sense of the word possible. You could get a paraplegic all-star shooter out on the court, and Gordon would get torched for 31.
B: While true the Bulls need a true point guard, they need an inside presence far more. The entire roster is made up of guys who penetrate and shoot 10-15. So why get another guy who does exactly that? Granted this is a bit of an over-reaction because Rose would make them better, but this is what makes them improve immediately. Just because they had a shitty season doesn’t mean they couldn’t come in next year and get back to the expectations most of the MSM had for them.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
Gordon has unbelievable range on his jumper, I’ll give him that. But the rest of his game was nowhere near as explosive as the other guards in question.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
gonzo, that link should work
May 20th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
And I don’t know if Gordon’s a winner.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
Yeah I get to the page, but the video won’t load. I clicked on other parts of the site and they won’t load either. Must be my connection.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
Will Flip Saunders cut his mullet please.. please. I can’t stand when my hair gets long in the back, it ruins my day.. yet he goes with it EVERY day.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
just click the video link I posted, these things are great. How much do I have to invest to get this show to the US?
May 20th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
Mayo could have gone out to SC and jacked up 25 shots a game if he really wanted to, and was really looking for stats. The games I watched, I saw a kid make a concerted effort to run his team from the point by getting his teammates going, and he goes out and plays very good defense. That doesn’t seem like a selfish player to me, but then again I don’t subscribe to the WWF Good Guy, Bad Guy mentality in evaluating whether or not a player is going to be good or not.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
my only point to you blazers, and this obviously is a generalization on my part.. but it seems like you guys just assign winning qualities to people arbitrarily.. for instance peyton manning cant win the big one, he cant win the big one, right up until he shoves it up your ear and wins the freaking super bowl..i just disagree fundamentally with saying that player x is “not a winner” because you think he cares more about his stats.. lots of guys care about their stats and win championships.. by the way, if i may channel my inner le batard-ian.. how many WHITE players would you say dont care about winning and only care about their stats? can you name any?
May 20th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
the colts won the Super Bowl in spite of Peyton Manning, not because of him.
Discuss.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Does Kosta Koufos count? He NEVER passed. I think he had a calculator strapped to his shorts to calculate shooting percentages mid-game.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
hahahhahahaha
this is like Ali/Frazier!!
Praying Mantis vs. Yellow Jacket!!
http://revver.com/video/585593/japanese-bug-fights-round-10/
ok, I’m officially obsessed
May 20th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Gordon is Vinny the Microwave Johnson jr. He’s a pure scorer, nothing more, nothing less.
@Cortes: I hate using sports cliches, too. However, there’s so much bullshit you hear through “analyists” on the Extra Sexual Party Network that you eventually find yourself saying, fuck..did I really just say that?
May 20th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
cortes
you guys? you’re right, that is a pretty big generalizations. White guys who dont care about winning. sure. adam dunn. dont make this a fucking racial thing. really
May 20th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
just asking the question blazers.. relax
May 20th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
Jewish people are just better bloggers.. they get it
May 20th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
by the way, im sure adam dunn not caring about winning has more to do with his pissy attitude than it does the fact his team has fucking sucked for a decade.. riiiiiight…
May 20th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
oi
May 20th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
Adam Dunn? You’re right. I think that guy cares more about his next meal at Chipotle then his next at bat…what an asshole he is!
May 20th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
Jewish people are just better bloggers.. they get it
Did Hef pay you to say that?
May 20th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
cortes, it didnt matter who i said there, you were going to disagree. so lets just agree that we dont agree
May 20th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
plus, dunn is locked in right now. so i dont like saying bad shit about him
May 20th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
Adam Dunn just cares about getting 40 homers, 100 RBIs, and 100 walks per year. And getting on-base at something like a .380 OBP.
Those stats he loves obviously don’t contribute to wins, though.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
+1 to nick..
surround him with better talent and all of a sudden adam dunn is a TEAM PLAYER who greatly contributes to chemistry.. ughhhhh
May 20th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
jesus christ, i know he is good nick. how much do you think he cares? hes pretty much said that he doesnt care too much about what happens.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:24 pm
those bug fights are pretty awesome
May 20th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
I do not want to hear about baseball players never winning something. Of all the sports, that’s the one where player A’s greatness might have zero effect on the team… It’s why baseball will always be the 4th major sports to me (behind Football/basketball/MMA).
May 20th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
Yeah man. That wasp really kicked the shit outta the Praying Mantis. Although the video creeped me the fuck out.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:27 pm
cursed
i know, its apples and oranges. just the first thing that came to mind
May 20th, 2008 at 10:27 pm
Baseball chemistry is another hilarious quality that is assigned.. Why in the world would the Indians hit better as a team if they played cards more.. or shared colored thongs?
May 20th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
@Cursed: really? A sport that’s evolved in the past 3 years in terms of popularity over America’s pasttime?
May 20th, 2008 at 10:32 pm
I’ve been watching MMA since the mid 90’s.. It’s just something I enjoy. I used to enjoy boxing until the Tyson era came to an end.. MMA is just way more exciting. I realize it’s not everyone’s cup of tea.. but I enjoy it more.
I’ve watched baseball since I was four years old. I liked it much more when I was younger.. I don’t hate it now, but it’s kind of irrelevant to me now. Why is everyone cool with 162 games? Just b/c that’s the way it is? If you were to start a baseball league tomorrow to go head to head.. you’d pick 162 games? That’s ridiculous..
Plus, it’s tough to identify with baseball as a fan. Tough to break down.. Like, why is Hafner’s balls getting to the warning track and not over the seats? Is he not focused? In basketball, I can break down why guys are getting better shots..etc. But in baseball, seemms like a big game of rock scissors paper with the pitcher and batter. You hope your guy guesses right.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
cursed, baseball is my favorite sport, partly because its the easier sport to isolate individual performance and have informed debates more so than any other sport.. but you are SPOT on with the chemistry talk.. i wish more people would realize how ridiculous that analysis is
May 20th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
Damn it (random pitcher).. find the strike zone! What are you doing.. Strike him out.. don’t give up hits!!
May 20th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
And in football and basketball, you know what you’re getting with free agents for the most part (I realize I’m about to get all the exceptions..but hear me out). Your trusty GM could bring on a guy in baseball that’s been as consistent as can be.. and his career could be over in two years once you get him. There’s no rhyme or reason sometimes.
In basketball, when I sign PJ Brown, he’s not going to deviate from what he does. He’s not going to go from shooting 40% to 50%.. or 2 rebounds to 10..
May 20th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
lol.. but cursed.. i can take any player and tell you in 5 different advanced stats (OPS, EQA, VORP, BABIP etc) how much value player x is having on a team.. its another reason why i love baseball.. in basketball, we have to GUESS if david west is playing well because his play is elevated, or because chris paul is the one doing the heavy lifting.. i understand your point, but if you prefer to break the percentages, i could say hey when player x shoots the jump shot theres only a 42 % chance he makes it.. not much different that baseball in that sense..
May 20th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
Damn it (random gay MMA fighter) keep your hands up. Don’t get hit in the face. Avoid the take down.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
i believe basketball is the most consistent in terms of free agents but baseball is way more consistent than football.. if you follow baseball prospectus and the other advanced statistical breakdowns you can predict fairly easily how a player will perform in the future.. the problem is, you have 26 gms (not beinfest, epstein, beane and a few others for sure) that are giving players boat loads of money because they have a lot of rbi’s.. that stat in particular is so arbitrary
May 20th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
Yes, stats are king in baseball. I’ll listen to every single argument about in in baseball. You can’t hide in baseball, every movement is defined by a statistic – which isn’t the case in basketball.
As for basketball, there is an amount of luck with shooting, absolutely. Guys have shots go in and out that are good looks and good offensive execution. But the better teams will continue to get the better looks and they’ll eventually go in.
In baseball, I have to pray to the gods that guys hit the ball where the defenders aren’t. I know I’m oversimplifying.. but you get the picture. Not hating on baseball, just not my favorie.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:39 pm
Brian Grant totally agrees.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:40 pm
Hef, I think I’m talking team sports here for the most part. But I get your point.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
Again though, I want to really discuss the 162 games thing. Can anyone tell me why that’s good for anyone?
May 20th, 2008 at 10:44 pm
cursed, I think you’re right. Baseball teams should just play each team once at home and once on the road and then start the postseason.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:44 pm
would have to do some more studies on it, but in baseball, if you played at 40-60 game season it would be too random.. that sport in particular needs a large amount of games to separate pretenders from contenders.. quick example, go look the atlanta braves run differential right now.. its insane, they are like +50 or something and they aren’t even in first.. you gotta have the long season for things like that to even out..
May 20th, 2008 at 10:44 pm
Fantastic (and long) piece on baseball chemistry.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
Your trusty GM could bring on a guy in baseball that’s been as consistent as can be.. and his career could be over in two years once you get him.
Cursed, that statement couldn’t be more true for football. (Shaun Alexander anyone?) That’s a bad example.
Listen, you don’t have to prove why baseball is 4th on your list. Baseball is number 1 for me, and I will be the first to admit it’s a very boring game.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
There is WAY more game-to-game variation in baseball than in the other sports. You get way more underdogs reaching the World Series than you do the NBA Finals. A shorter baseball season would be an absolute disaster.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
There are too many playoff teams in MLB, imo. Fuck the wildcard.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
@Cursed: 2-1 White Sox, runners at third and second with no outs!!!!
Back on the subject at hand: I would have no problem if they kept the original 144 schedule, but if you look at what has happened in September because of the extended schedule i.e. the Rockies last year, it allows more to happen that wouldn’t have before
May 20th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
@Gonzo–Maybe it’s because I watch and understand baseball way more than any other sport, but I don’t see how it’s very boring.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
holy shit.. yao ming with the much improved english!
May 20th, 2008 at 10:49 pm
agree with fetch on that one. baseball is not boring at all to me.. guess that differs for each person though..
May 20th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
But Vegas, that’s like arguing first base should be closer to home to avoid all those close plays!
What I mean is, wouldn’t it be just as random with 80 games.. and then with 200? How crappy in baseball that teams finish up 30 games back? Could there be a better way to turn away those fans? In football you can make the playoffs even if you start 2-6.. and you’re done with 50% of the season. That’s really problematic with me.
Good discussion.. and again, I’m not in any way criticizing any of you for liking baseball, I actually appreciate a lot about the game. Just thinks it’s the least perfect of the big three.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:51 pm
gotta agree with cleveland on the last point.. has been a good discussion today..
May 20th, 2008 at 10:51 pm
Fetch, we live in a world of instant gratification. In baseball, you have to wait for the big situation to evolve before most fans start getting excited. Maybe in my old age, I get bored easily. I dunno.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
4-1 WHITE SOX!!!!!!!!!!
May 20th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
i hate hawk harrelson and feel bad for any one that has to listen to that idiot on a daily basis..
May 20th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
Gonzo I see your point, but look at football, it takes 30 seconds for each new play, and half the possessions its 3-5 plays and a punt. I don’t get what makes it so much better, other than it being on ESPN 24/7
May 20th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
No. With 80 games, you would consistently have inferior teams making the playoffs. With baseball, it takes longer for teams to even out than with other sports. The number of games has a huge effect on how random the playoff participants are.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
randy pfund (heat president) is on 790 the ticket right now, he seems to be hinting at a trade if they can get back an all-star.. hmm.. melo?
May 20th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
@Cortes: I’ve grown up listening to Hawk, and could easily see why people don’t like him. That said, I couldn’t imagine listening to anybody but Hawk
http://www.heavethehawk.com
May 20th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
Well said Fetch. I don’t even have a response for that lol. (throws in white towel).
May 20th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
Funny you mention that about football Fetch. I have a friend from Greece that hates American football because of that very point, the new play every 30 seconds and the commercials. He loves soccer because it never stops (unfortunately).
May 20th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
@Vegas: But at the end of the day, the best team will seldom win the WS. Needs to go back to the 2 division per league set-up.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:59 pm
i’ve been to chicago a few times to see wrigley, and at the hotel i put on the white sox game and was horrified to hear him call a game dr.c…. i just shocked that he gets paid to say the shit he says.. he is completely uninformed on any team in the MLB besides the white sox.. its crazy.. guess i got spoiled listening to boog sciambi
May 20th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
@ nick.. thats the whole point.. the playoffs in baseball are more random than any sport in america.. the reason for the 162 game schedule is to have the best teams in the playoffs.. once your in the playoffs its all crapshoot
May 20th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
People always think I hate football because I always bring that up, and it’s not true, the Vikings are my second favorite pro team in any sport behind the Twins, but my point is that I flip channels just as much in between plays in football as I do in between pitches in baseball.
@ Nick: Personally I don’t agree, I think the WC has been a great thing for baseball, extra revenue and what not. Plus on the last couple weeks of the season there are great races that just wouldn’t be there otherwise.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Vegas, why would 80 games result with inferior teams making the playoffs? For one thing, injuries mount up the longer the season goes, and you’re no longer dealing with your team as constituted.
Also, one thing I cannot stand about baseball as far as equity goes is that teams look completely different playoff time then they do during the regular season. The Indians lineup was just not the same lineup as it was in the first 90 or so games. Why is that the case?
Baseball is the only sports where rookies come in and confuse everyone because the league doesn’t have a “book” on them. Then they help teams come playoff time, then they disappear down the road. That most certainly does not happen in football or the NBA. No NBA team is bringing up NBDL guys to get them over the hump. (Granted, trades are made..but this year was a giant exception).
Your team should be your team… The Indians that almost made the World Series last year, was not the team they had all season.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
@Nick: That’s an entirely different discussion. My point was, especially with the current playoff structure, you need to play a lot of games.
I have no strong opinion on the playoff structure. It’s been this way since I was 7, so I don’t have a whole lot to compare it to.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:03 pm
Who was different? I’m not being sarcastic I just can’t really think of anyone who made a huge difference that was a different player.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:03 pm
@cort: I know all that, but even at that, I don’t think the 8th best team deserves its shot.
It’s different in basketball when you have to win 16 games to prove you’re a champion. Those games are wars.
Baseball games are 53/47 coinflips for the most part.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
Because it’s easier to get lucky for 80 games than for 162.
The exact same thing would happen if you only played 80 games. How is this relevant?
May 20th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
Guittierez and Cabrera were new to the squad, fetch. Turned that offense and defense into much more than it was.
Let them bench Trot Nixon and Josh Barfield, who were both god awful (although Barfield has a nice glove)
May 20th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
yea im with fetch on that one.. who was so different on that lineup? carmona was dominant all year, as was sabathia.. lee got sent down about a month in to the season, thats not a huge change.. who am i forgetting cursed?
May 20th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Asdrubal Cabrera.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:06 pm
Oh that’s right Guittierez. I’m a moron. I don’t really count Asdrubal cause he was going to be called up anyways. To me that’s like if the Cards stayed in first all season and Colby Rasmus got called up in June. He’s good enough to be up so it’s not like it’s a huge deal. To me anyways.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:08 pm
It’s kind of a big deal. Asdrubal instantly became their best defensive infielder. Guit became their best defensive outfielder.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:08 pm
That’s just the thing Cortes, and I guess that’s what I’m used to. You don’t listen to Hawk for opinions on anything outside of the following: Carl Yastrzemski, email, his batting average, Catfish Hunter, and other assorted things that lead back to his South Carolinian thinking. Like I said, there’s PLENTY of White Sox fans that hate Hawk. I just happened to be one of those who have heard his schitck for so long that I actually enjoy it.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:08 pm
Also, Asdrubal’s OPS+ was 101. So he was almost exactly average. So it’s not as if he lit the world on fire.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:09 pm
Sorry Vegas I wasn’t linking the games played with the fact that rookies get called up. Those were two different arguments.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
Josh Barfield’s OPS+ was 54, so he kinda did light the world on fire, from a replacement standpoint.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
Not true at all. If Barfield is hitting .284 on August 8 instead of .244, Cabrera probably doesn’t make the postseason roster.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:12 pm
The standards are a little different for really good defensive second basemen.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
So that settles it then, Opie and Anthony > Stern’s last 5 years?
May 20th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
To be fair, Asdrubal was playing 8 levels above his head on offense. He is a terrible hitter.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
Umm..so I have ESPNNEWS on, and haven’t seen a score yet..who won?
May 20th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
See Nick, when does that happen in basketball. I hate that about baseball. Guys come and go so often, it sickens me about trying to make sense of it all.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
I guess I don’t know if Baseball Reference does their OPS+ relative to position or not. Looking at the numbers I kind of doubt it, but it’s possible.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
ton of rust on the pistons tonight, billups looked way out of it. turnovers killed them, sheed couldn’t hit shit forever. game 2 is always the game. pistons love game 2.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
@Cursed–You mean guys can’t have 5 or 10 good games in a row?
May 20th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
They don’t.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
@cursed: See Tim Thomas.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
Nick P, there really aren’t that many exceptions in the NBA. Sure we can point to the occasional Tim Thomas, but nobody ever doubted his talent.. and it happened to be the perfect system and a contract year..
Way more examples of Travis Hafner in baseball than in basketball, aren’t there?
May 20th, 2008 at 11:28 pm
To be fair, Travis Hafner was probably the best offensive player in the league at his peak, and guys like him tend to deteriorate rather quickly. But yes there are more examples in baseball than hoops.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
OPS+ is only offense related. you need to go to VORP ffor offense and defense.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
Travis Hafner’s body type suggests he’s performing just about as expected. He’s not exactly young.
It’s not really an aberration. He’s just old.
His big years were his age 27-28-29 seasons, as for most players, and now he’s fallen off a cliff.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:30 pm
Gonzo- VORP is all offense too. WARP is offense and defense.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
Thanks Fetch. I just realized my mistake. You kids and your silly new age statistics.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
By the way, nobody ever associates Hafner with steroids because he’s just as big.. but, look at his precipitous fall. Don’t we associate all others with steroids when they fall quickly?
By the way, what’s going on with fellow OSU boy Nick Swisher? He’s turrrrible.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:35 pm
And, not go get too nerdy, WARP isn’t that great because BP’s fielding metric is pretty outdated.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:35 pm
I think it’s a case of Hafner just being old. Same as when Ryan Howard falls off a cliff in a couple years, it will just be because he’s old.
As for Swish, his bb/k rates are still similar. He’s on pace for 100 walks, and he has a .343 OBP. I’m surprised he hasn’t hit for more power in that park, but without looking at the numbers I’d bet his BABIP is fairly low.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
@Vegas- I still think we’re at the point where fielding metrics aren’t completely good enough, but FRAA isn’t bad. I go to Baseball Reference for fielding stats mostly.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
Fetch, why are Homers discouraged in BABIP?
May 20th, 2008 at 11:41 pm
Fetch, like I said, feel free to email me a guest post for MLJ anytime you want. Nice stuff tonight. (Yes I’m eavesdropping).
May 20th, 2008 at 11:41 pm
Thanks for letting this playoff post get into my Tribe demise. Hafner either 1. can’t see, 2. stopped the juice, or 3. has just plain lost it. I’m rooting for #1, don’t think its #2, but am very afraid its #3. Without Pronk, the Indians are dead men walking. The rest of the lineup tries to do more than they can do, causing them all to press. You can literally see the stress when anyone comes up to bat with runners on base. 3-27 with RISP this weekend and 5 HR’s… all solo… Oy vay…
Here’s hoping the Bulls succumb to Chicago pressure and take Rose. That will help the Cavs cause. Taking Beasley would easily be the best move they could do. Can’t friggin believe that Bulls got the #1… Fucl…
May 20th, 2008 at 11:42 pm
There’s a new generation of fielding stats that are better than FRAA. I prefer Dewan’s (from The Fielding Bible), which are both easy to understand and very accurate. They literally chart every ball hit, and compare the % of the time an average defender would make the play to the % of time the defender in question makes the play.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:42 pm
Cursed: they’re not discouraged. BABIP is an indicator. Basically the theory is that the average ball hit into play is going to fall for a hit about 30% of the time (unless you’re really fast and can outrun in field singles).
May 20th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
@ Hef: My bad I got busy today and totally forgot to write one. I’ll do it tomorrow while watching the Champions League final. And don’t they remove homers from BABIP, or am I retarded
May 20th, 2008 at 11:46 pm
This should be used for pitchers. It’s really not an effective way to evaluate hitters. For hitters you need to compare it to their career mark. BABIP ranges much more widely among hitters than pitchers.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:46 pm
Hef, seems to like voyeurism. I knew he was sketchy.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:49 pm
I think fans should be able to attempt to throw a runner out at third on a home run ball. With a relay throw of course.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:52 pm
@Fetch: yes they remove homers because they’re technically not in play.
@Vegas: Jeter’s career BABIP is .363 so yeah.
@Gonzo: I love what you’re wearing right now.
@cursed: That would increase attendance.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:53 pm
I’ve also espoused a new baseball format where you get all 27 outs at once.. and the manager of the hitting team can decide how many to use at one time. So after 6 outs, you then take the field and the other team gets as many as they want to use.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:53 pm
Off topic: I don’t need to worry about having any more kids because my laptop has been sitting on my junk for the last hour or so, and I’m pretty sure I’m now sterile. Vegas, what sort of odds do you give me on that being true?
/Resume topic.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:56 pm
@ cursed: that’s actually a pretty good/funny idea, but you’d almost have to go all 27 at once.
@hef: I know I seem all level-headed and unbiased, but once you read my guest post about the Twins, it will be so subjective that you’ll want to submit it to FJM
May 20th, 2008 at 11:56 pm
Fixed
May 20th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
If you like that one Fetch, I have many, many more. In football, teams should be able to trade in their timeouts at the end of the game for points.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:59 pm
Well that’s all for this circus. I have to find a job tomorrow. I’m not even sure how to end this, do I ask for a bedtime story and warm glass of milk? Ask Hef for another Faulkner story or a headline? Ask cursed for more gimmicky ideas? Tell Gonzo how sweet his gravatar is? One of those must be right.
May 21st, 2008 at 12:01 am
20:1.
May 21st, 2008 at 12:01 am
Signing off (or pretending to, until Sportsgirl checks in).
May 21st, 2008 at 12:03 am
Tell Gonzo how sweet his gravatar is?
If by gravatar you mean balls, then thank you. Thank you very much. I just them injected with Botox. They are smooth as eggs.