Reilly and Simmons: Promise, Last Time For Awhile
Bill Simmons, ESPN, NBA June 5th. 2008, 5:15pm
ESPN newbie Rick Reilly had his first chat over at the .com, and he opened up by talking about three things that may have raised a few eyebrows: 1) his new pal Bill Simmons, and 2) comparing journalists to bloggers. Some of you are probably already gassed on this subject, so if you care to skip this post, that’s fine. But at the bottom, we snuck in something about a Kobe radio discussion that made us vomit earlier today. Forgive the rant. Yes, yes, we are aware: sports talk radio = bad for your ears.
Martin Bell (NYC): There’s no way to put this gently, so I’ll be blunt: Are you and Bill Simmons going to get along?
SportsNation Rick Reilly: We’re already getting along. The guy is routinely hilarious. I see him around L.A. and New York now and again. Always friendly. He actually met my girlfriend before he met me and they hit it off. He’s new school, I’m old school, but we still want the same thing: entertaining, compelling columns. And you combine that with one of the purest writers in the country, Gene Wojciechowski, plus all the other writers, and I think this is a helluva staff.
and
Ken (Atlantic City, NJ): Rick, it seems the disconnect at times betweens writers and players it wider that it should be. It seems with the hostility from the players some writers can’t seem to get the details many of us look for.
SportsNation Rick Reilly: Totally agree. When I first started, in 1979, athletes still needed the press. Needed them to be understood. Needed them to get endorsements. Needed them to make connections after their pro careers were through. Now they make so much money, they don’t need us. All we can do is screw up a good thing. So they announce everything on their own websites and cut writers out. That’s why I have to work five times as hard now to get them to interact with me, to talk to me. Like asking Derek Jeter if I can spend the day opening all the mail in his extra locker. It’s harder but you’ve got to find a way. You can’t just sit on your butt and go, “It’s too hard.” Because the day you stop talking to athletes and coaches is the day you’re, dare I say it, just blogging. And bloggers can be funny and can write really well and have great observations. But it’s never as good or as real or as trurthful if you don’t actually attempt to speak to your subject.
As for Simmons, he wrote some sort of Finals preview that is terribly lengthy, and if you want to know his response to Bob Ryan’s BLOG post, here it is (No. 20 in his list):
“That’s right, someone writing a serious rebuttal to an intentionally ridiculous column. I never thought it could happen, but if it DID ever happen, I knew it was going to be a Boston College grad who did it. (By the way, I disagreed with Bob’s serious rebuttal to my intentionally ridiculous column. Both sides need to win for them to have a rivalry; if only one side is winning, then it’s a feud and that’s all. I covered this in pages 183-186 of my book in the chapter about the Yankees-Red Sox feud — complete with analysis of Webster’s official definition of the word “rivalry” — a feud that never achieved “rivalry” status until Oct. 21, 2004. From 1959 through 1984, the Celtics and Lakers were feuding and that’s it. And if you disagree with that, take it up with Webster.)
That’ll be all for these guys for awhile. Unless of course one of them feels compelled to go after Jeff Van Gundy and Mike Francesa, who were on the radio a few hours ago tickling Kobe’s taint with their tongues. It was reprehensible. They both said that in the annals of NBA history, Kobe is the second best ‘wing/guard/perimeter’ (we don’t remember which word) player after Jordan. Francesa went as far to say that (again paraphrasing) Kobe “might have a better offensive arsenal right now” than Jordan, and if he can improve his defense, he might end up the better player.
Hey, we enjoy Kobe’s work as the next guy, but where are these clowns getting their crack, Tatum O’Neal’s dealer? Where were all these Kobe BJs during the last two years when he was bounced from the playoffs in the first round? Kobe’s a fantastic player, and is already one of the 20 best players in NBA history. But everybody needs a wingman. He had one for the first half of this season in double-double Bynum, and then after the Gasol donation (stole that from Van Gundy), he found a replacement.
Hell, if you want to put this Lakers team up against some of Jordan’s teams, it probably is superior. The trio of Kobe-Gasol-Odom trumps all the early Jordan years, when he didn’t have Rodman. Odom probably could go down as one of the finest No. 3 options in NBA history (he’s not quite Worthy-good, but he has to be as good as whomever you want to take from Boston’s teams in the 80s), and it has shown this season in his shot selection - field goal percentage way up - reduction in turnovers, and increased rebounding.
The Lakers’ bench? It has only been one season, but another year with this kind of production and it could rival some of those Pistons subs in the late 80s early 90s. The Lakers record with Gasol is something like 34-8 (couldn’t find it online, but that’s close) since the Gasol deal. Add Bynum to the fold next year and you might as well fire up the talk of a 70-win season. If the Lakers didn’t hoodwink the Grizz into getting Gasol, Kobe may have never gotten that fourth title. With him, plus an emerging Bynum, plus Odom as a third option, plus a strong bench? Challenging Jordan’s six is well within reach. However, all this talent around him, plus the fact he had Shaq for a few years, minus what he did without horses around him (in theory, Kobe never made players around him considerably better, like MJ; otherwise, the Lakers would have done more in the last two seasons), we think, leaves him still well short of Jordan comparisons.
29 Responses to “Reilly and Simmons: Promise, Last Time For Awhile”
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June 5th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
Is this a blog or a newspaper? Way too much reading, more biscuits needed.
June 5th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
i think the kid had too much Patron
June 5th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
For those of you who looked at Simmons’ column from today and decided it was way too long to read, I’ll recap it for you:
Kobe’s great, KG’s legacy, Phil Jackson, Bob Ryan, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen are x-factors, my dad says……, Phil Jackson, I’m nervous, my wife thinks….., Larry Bird, I live in LA, Celtics in 7.
That’s about it. Also, that recap works for his previous column too.
June 5th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
I’m glad i buried the Kobe-Jordan stuff. It would be too much for the Kobe sycophants to handle.
June 5th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Thanks 1 Happy, but we all knew what it said without ever even having to glance at it.
June 5th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
Totally. Had you posted this and hour earlier it would be blown up by the Kobe honks.
June 5th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
I have seen this term a lot lately and I don’t know what it means: PEDs
somebody,anybody help me out
June 5th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
Dan Patrick was arguing with Scott Van Pelt the other day on their radio show about Kobe vs. Jordan. Dan thinks that Kobe’s Offense > Jordan’s Offense, too. Something about being a way better perimeter shooter (although their 3pt % career is very close). Dan also said that Kobe doesn’t need the post up game that Jordan had because he’s “too good for it”. Weird.
June 5th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
Didn’t Jordan have Scottie Pippen? It wasn’t like MJ and the shitpatrol out there.
June 5th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
PED…Performance Enhancing Drugs
June 5th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
If this were baseball, maybe.
With the talent that exists in the Western Conference, and specifically in their division, I would be shocked if the Lakers won even 65 next year.
June 5th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
I’m not one of the Kobe sycophants, but I will say that what he’s done this year with this cast of characters, which I don’t think compares favorably to Top 50 All-Time Pippen, Grant/Rodman inside, and the pu-pu platter elsewhere, is on par with Jordan’s championship seasons.
And you know what? Lay that at Phil Jackson’s feet. The man should be recognized as a better coach than Auerbach because of what he’s done with two totally different generations of players and two, maybe, after this year, three very different teams.
June 5th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Wow, how could i miss that.. thanks RWH
June 5th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
I’m confused… What happened here?
1. Patrick was on Van Pelt’s show
2. Van Pelt was on Patrick show
3. You meant Tirico and Van Pelt
I can’t imagine The Mouse either letting DP on an ESPN show or them letting an ESPN guest on Patrick’s show.
June 5th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Sorry man, there’s no way Kobe-Gasol-Odom is better than Jordan-Pippen-Grant, not by a long shot. Everyone forgets how good Horace Grant was in his prime–he was one of the top defenders in the league and showed up to play in every game, unlike the horribly inconsistent Odom. And though I love Gasol’s game, let’s see how he does in the Finals before crowning his ass, shall we?
June 5th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
There is no need to compare the respective trios. Just look at it this way. Jordan/Gasol/Odom > Kobe/Gasol/Odom
June 5th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Odessa, yeah you’re right, it wasn’t Van Pelt, dunno why I thought it was. I can’t remember the guy’s name though, but he was all over Dan for saying it. It was Patrick’s show though.
June 5th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
Also, Horace Grant had the sweetest CazalSpecs in the history of mankind.
June 5th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
Kobe has the potential to end up better than Jordan. How can anyone argue otherwise?
He’s not there now, how can anyone argue otherwise?
Let’s see how the next five years pan out. Or would that make too much sense? I can’t imagine Jordan playing any better than Kobe’s playing right now. But Jordan kept it up for awhile. Kobe will have his chance.
As for comparing the eras, Jordan played in the handchecking era, but with guys nowhere near his size and athleticism, that’s not the case today, where guys 6′7 guard Kobe every night, but with no handchecking. Very tough to compare.
June 5th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
where you been, cursed? I knew some Mamba talk would bring you out of you Parkersvilleton, WV cave.
June 5th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
Oh and nice of Sportscenter to lead with Yankees baseball this evening.
June 5th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
C’mon, cursed - it was comeback, walk-off homerun and it happened this afternoon. SportsCenter is a highlights show at heart, after all.
June 5th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Yankees lead SC? Really? Not Griffey almost getting to 600? glad I dont watch that show anymore.
June 5th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
Now that i think about it Clown, ESPN gets bashed for self promotion and ABC has the finals, so maybe I’m being too hard. But it is the NBA finals.
June 5th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
duh, i wasnt even thinking of the NBA cursed. Hell, even the NHL deserved to lead off over the spankees.
June 5th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
Shouldn’t we wait for that until he, ya know, actually wins the championship?
Fortunately, you don’t have to imagine it, because he actually did it for about 8 years. Although, I agree with the main point you’re making here–there’s a lot of basketball to be played in Kobe’s career, and he probably hasn’t even peaked yet.
June 5th, 2008 at 8:08 pm
TBL — PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE….stop it with Simmons and Reilly. Two megalomaniacal turds that no one gives a rat’s ass about. Two little girls with pigtails. STOP!!
June 5th, 2008 at 10:27 pm
We need to get a few things clear here: Jordan wasn’t exactly Magic in the making teammates better department. Before he got decent teammates, he was one of the most selfish players in the league, a bona-fide ball hog. Only after he got good/improved players did he start passing more (still not as much as people seem to think though). Sound familiar?
Also, please tell me exactly what Jordan ever did when HE “didn’t have horses around him.” Lost in the first round for a few years you say? Again, sound familiar?
Also, it’s somehow not a big deal for Kobe’s team to potentially win 70 games cause he’s got other good players. Jordan on the other hand did it all by himself! Ummm, last time I checked you need more than one superstar to win that many. Jordan had players too. He didn’t do it on his own. All his winning teams had another top-flight player (Pippen), a borderline all-star rebounder/defender PF (Grant, Rodman) and quality role players (You know the names). Also, especially the latter 3 championships, they where the best defensive team.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
interesting take, Goose. I think Jordan grew as a player. He was a selfish scoring machine in the 80s, and it’s not like he had a horse in 1991 when they beat the lakers. pippen was what, a year or two removed from the headache? HO Grant wasn’t exactly a superstar …
did jordan get lucky because magic and bird were done? ive heard that argument, not sure how much i buy it, just putting it out there …