Where Are the Kobe Sycophants Now?
NBA June 13th. 2008, 1:10pm
Mike Francesa and Jeff Van Gundy (rant at the bottom), we’re looking at you. Kobe’s got an offensive arsenal to rival Jordan? What a crock of shit. We’ve fought many folks on this one all season long – Kobe is not the best player in the NBA. He had a spectacular season, his immense talent is undeniable, and he’s already proven that he’s one of the 30 greatest players in NBA history. But he’s certainly not the best player in the NBA. If you want to compare Kobe to Jordan (enjoy the FAIL!), fine … use the Jordan from the 1988 playoffs against Detroit, when the Pistons enacted the Jordan Rules.
“Kobe doesn’t have the supporting cast that Boston does.” The Others staked LA to an 18-point halftime lead last night, and Kobe didn’t make a basket in the first 24 minutes. You’d think Kobe would have been able to hold off the collapse, but he couldn’t shake Paul Pierce, that lockdown (note the sarcasm) defender. LA’s supporting cast is also why 98 percent of pundits took the Lakers. The Celtics were taken to seven games by the lowly Hawks and Cavs, who both have weaker squads than the Lakers! If you want to say the Lakers bench has underperformed, we’ll buy that. Even we got sucked into the hype there. They’ve been outclassed by Leon Powe, James Posey (the new Robert Horry!) and Eddie House. Eddie fuckin’ House!
(Just came up with a decent line, we think: Pau Gasol, who only two weeks ago was hailed as a savior in one of the most lopsided trades in NBA history, is suddenly softer than our stool after a few dinners in Cancun.)
“Kobe’s just having a bad series.” He just went to town on the 2nd best defense in the league (San Antonio), but now he’s been rendered ineffective against Boston? Kobe had one terrific performance – game three – and LA was barely able to win that one. His struggles, it seems, have extended to post-game pressers: “lot of wine … lot of beer … couple shots … maybe like 20 of ‘em.” (That was a terrible attempt at levity, Kobester.) It was as close to a concession speech as you’ll find. Curt Schilling was right – Kobe’s no leader. As RotoNation said to us in gchat: “Bird, Magic, and Jordan all would have been watching game film to figure out what went wrong.” Indeed.
At the risk of stirring up that LeBron vs. Kobe debate … if Kobe had the edge on perimeter shooting … what say you about Kobe’s 2-for-10 shooting from three in this series? He no doubt saw that LeBron struggled from three (9-for-39) against the Celtics, and decided he would not allow the same mistakes to hinder him. Yet they have. And lest you think Kobe’s defense was superior to LeBron’s well, talk to us about Ray Allen’s dominant series. At best, it’s a wash, because Pierce pwned the Cavs.
If every player in the NBA is dumped into a draft, and we have the first pick, we’re going LeBron 10 times out of 10. Tim Duncan’s aging, so it is probably a split between he and Kobe for who goes 2nd.
230 Responses to “Where Are the Kobe Sycophants Now?”
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June 13th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
CP3 > Kobe
June 13th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Fo Shizzle
June 13th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Would Jordan have allowed the Jazz or the Blazers or the Suns to come back from 18 down on him to win a Finals game?
Hell no! He’d have taken that ball out of Paxson’s hands or Pippen’s hands or whoever else was on the floor and taken over the game.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
This is going to be fun…
June 13th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
+1 to RomanWarHelmet
CP3 = Real MVP.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Alright so TBL who is the best player in the leauge? LeBron James? Again, I ask what has he accomplished? What did LeBron do that was so amazing against Boston?
The Kobe/Jordan comparisons were and are stupid, I will give you that. Jordan is a much better player than Kobe will ever be.
Who gives a crap about Kobe talking about drinking wine, taking shots after the game, fucking PC country annoys the hell out of me.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Duncan is a great, great player, but I’m not taking him over Kobe. Not in 2008.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
“What a crock of shit.” TBL
Release the hounds! TBL is all fired up.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
I don’t doubt LeBron will eventually win titles, but wait until he does that before you start annointing him the best right now.
Tim Duncan over Kobe, hahahahahahhahahaha. Almost as ridiculous as Dirk over Kobe.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Why can’t we all just sit back and enjoy Kobe for what he is: a callous gun for hire.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Kobayashi > Kobe
June 13th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
In that draft…
LeBron>CP3>Kobe
June 13th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
tim duncan to START a team over kobe? no way.. kobe lebron and cp3 are the top 3 candidates for that list.
irish where you at? this should be fun
June 13th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Kobe may bet the most exciting player in the NBA on many nights, but he’s not the best.
LeBron James? Again, I ask what has he accomplished?
About as much as Kobe has since Kobe has been without the most dominate center of our era…
June 13th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
TBL- you remember that Kobe interview where he responded about being compared to MJ? He said just let me “Do me”
Lebron James is not the best in the game. That is for damn sure.
Pick #1 for me: Dwight Howard. In two years, he will own this league
June 13th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Where are the LeBron sychophants? Oh that’s right they left 2 rounds ago.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
TBL, I can’t believe you didnt put a picture of BronBron there instead of whoever that guy is sitting on his arse.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Kobe does have Jordan’s arsenal. The turnaround. The fadeaway. The up-and-under. Arguably the only diff beween the two is that when MJ took those shots, they actually found the bottom of the basket. Other than that, Kobe = MJ.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
August, so if LeBron get’s a dominant center his accomplishments mean nothing?
What has Shaq accomplished without a great guard? Is that a dumb question, not in your eyes.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
1988 > 2008
June 13th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
@cbh that hurt my soul!
June 13th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
OK, so if Kobe isn’t MJ, but the comparison keeps being brought up, is Kobe the second best player of all time? Is there anything wrong with that?
June 13th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
I hope Kobe was drinking Ten High whiskey and chasing it with Natty Ice.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Kobe – 16
LeDoucheyWhineyBabyJayZLover – 0
June 13th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Kobe – 14, sorry he hasn’t won this series… yet.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
TBL, just curious.. where would you rank kobe ALLTIME.. is he top 5 for you? top 10?
June 13th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Ruckmaker…Magic Johnson, Larry Bird and Oscar Robinson would like to have a discussion with you about Kobe being second best all-time
Fo Shizzle
June 13th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
@The Ruck: I’m perfectly fine with calling him the second best ever.
But first one minor assumption: We have to pretend that the 30-40 guys that are better than him never played in the Association.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
so if LeBron get’s a dominant center his accomplishments mean nothing?
That’s a fallacy: I wasn’t in any way saying Kobe hasn’t accomplished anything; that would be foolish to contend. However, on a vaguely even playing field they’ve done about the same thing… assuming this series is over.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
TBL: Kudos on use of the word sycophants.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Is there a single member of the Cavs other starting 4 that you take over any of the top 8 of LA? The difference in talent them around them is staggering. How anyone can compare what Kobe has “won” vs. what Lebron has “won” is beyond me.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Kobe does have Jordan’s arsenal. The turnaround. The fadeaway. The up-and-under. Arguably the only diff beween the two is that when MJ took those shots, they actually found the bottom of the basket. Other than that, Kobe = MJ.
+jewstar Nick
June 13th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
If Lebron James develops a jump shot, i will give him the title of “best in the game”. But i dont see that ever happening, ever. He can drive to the rim all he wants. That is his bread and butter like Dwight Howard dunking.
Amare Stoudmire plays better defense than Lebron James
June 13th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Jordan >>> Kobe >>> LeLame
June 13th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Is there a single member of the Cavs other starting 4 that you take over any of the top 8 of LA
Big Z?
June 13th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Oh boy how i enjoy Mr. Lead doing a post just to bash Kobe but when he wins the Regular Season MVP he only does a headline with it. How about that?
When Kobe lead his team from 24 down against the Spurs in game 1 did he made a post about Kobe? Hell no! Maybe he was sleeping, watching Gossip Girl reruns and High School Music or making the mixtape nº552 to send to LeBron James. But hey don’t forget he doesn’t like LeBron! Mr. Lead said it himself. He only did 3 posts about him being eliminated from the Playoffs. That’s what an unbiased person does when they don’t like a player. Hey even I did 5 posts on my imaginary blog when Ryan Bowen was eliminated from the Playoffs!
Mr. Lead i look forward to another live blog of the Euro 2008. I have to admit i have a good time when i see it, calling players with their numbers “great goal by #17″. Hey reading a player name from the back of his jersey is tough unless of course it’s LeBron James. Good stuff!
June 13th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Really, Maggs?
The Pistons made Kobe look like a little bitch in the Finals.
Lebron turned those same Pistons into a bunch of pansy little girls last year in the ECF.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
People dont understand, one man teams have never won shit. The Cleveland Cavs are a one man fucking show. They will be lucky to separate themselves from the Toronto Raptors next year. Fucking Bums
June 13th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
@Roman– Bird never won a title without Parish and McHale, and Magic never won without Kareem. So obviously, those don’t count. Tough luck.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Oh boy how i enjoy Mr. Lead doing a post just to bash Kobe but when he wins the Regular Season MVP he only does a headline with it. How about that?
waiting for that
June 13th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Yeah, TBL does deserve to get called out for his noticeable lack of Ryan Bowen coverage. The nerve!
June 13th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
wait, Kobe played against the Pistons?
June 13th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Props for the use of “crock of shit” before the jump…
June 13th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
What the fuck? Would this even be discussed if half the commenters werent from Cleveland? Bron hasnt done shit. Period. Beating Detroit in the Conference finals last year and then getting waxed in the Finals isnt shit.
Next up, “Why Bone Thugs in Harmony is better than NWA.”
June 13th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
@CH4OS
I think you mean Mr. McIntyre. Or Jason “LeLoserLover” McIntyre if you want to get fancy.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
Well, for starters, he accomplished more with less – much weaker bench, much weaker starters, and he pushed the series to 7. in game 7, he scored 45 in boston and the cavs had a shot to win with 90 seconds left before PJ Brown made some BS shot.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
@Racist Nick
They both had help from those great refs.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
@irish that is exactly the reason why the cavs making the finals last yr was so amazing
June 13th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
@nick p- how many years were those games seperated by? huh? years?
you want to always bring up one game with Lebron. One fucking game against the “mighty” Pistons is your only argument ever. You need more than that
June 13th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Same pistons? no ben wallace, no memo okur, no corliss williamson, no mike james…yeah, same pistons.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
CH4OS that was great.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Bird never won a title without Parish and McHale
But you see in that analogy, Shaq is Bird and Kobe Parish or McHale… many here seem to be confusing that.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
@Racist Nick
let the fun begin
June 13th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Agree completely with Irish, once LeBron develops a jump shot he will be completely unstoppable and the best player. Until then he is number 2.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Clarification: 1 man teams like the Cavs only can make it to Finals (and likely lose)
1 man teams like the Magic can only be made fools by the Pistons.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
http://thebiglead.com/?p=5366
http://thebiglead.com/?p=5709
http://thebiglead.com/?p=6027
There’s been plenty of love for Kobe.
But please stop deflecting the question: How has Kobe performed in this series?
June 13th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Kobe Bryant is the best player in the league hands down. In reality it seems as though you are just trying to pretty much pin this and every loss in the series on one guy. Boston is the better team thats a fact. One star cannot beat 3 without his teammates knocking down there open shots. Like I said in the earlier post its easy for role players to play when the team is winning but when the game got tight nobody on the Lakers beside Kobe, and fucking Sasha has the stones to take shots.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
whoever is 1 or 2 i would say the space between is very small anyways
kobe does lead in the throw teammates under the bus and trade demands catagories however
June 13th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
It’s all the bullfighters fault(by bullfighter i mean Sasha)
June 13th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
1 man teams like the Magic can only be made fools by the Pistons.
you fucking know the Magic are not led by one man. Hedo and Rashard so dont give me that fucking bullshit. Go find a stat
June 13th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
TBL: you should have titled this post: “Fuck you Kobe fans. There’s the door.”
June 13th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Tbl- better question, how as LeBron performed this series?
June 13th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
I am not a fan of Kobe in the least. I hate the guy. I am just saying he is NOT worse than LeCheeseDick. There is no way.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
@irish: Then that’s even much much worse, right?
Dwight had plenty of help AND STILL ONLY WON A SINGLE GAME?
That’s a “Superstar” right there.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
i dont know why i am getting heated defending Kobe. NBA “experts” prove my point for me. So yeah, the NBA finals performance has been piss poor. But if you want to go by NBA Finals performances, how was your Cavs last year TBL? fucking blanked
June 13th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
So we conveniently forget about LeBron shooting 20 percent the first two games, an all time NBA low?
Atlanta took Boston to 7, so I guess Joe Johnson is better than Kobe too?
The Spurs beat the Hornets in 7 games, the Lakers beat the Spurs in 5, so I guess Derek Fisher is better than Chris Paul.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
That’s a “Superstar†right there.
everyone already knows that. I dont have to prove my case about Dwight Howard
June 13th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Lebron’s too do list this summer:
1. get more tats, gotta have em
2. jock Jay-Z
3. jock Jay-Z some more, try for more riduclous endorsements
4. face-lift
5. maybe develop some sort of an outside game, attend Indians game in a Knicks jersey and Yankees hat.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Kobe has played good but not great. Game 4 he waited to late to turn it on when he should have been in attack mode from the start. But really be honest do you think the celtics are gonna do what they did last night double, triple team Kobe at the top of the key and force him to give the ball up? They played him straight up in game 3 and he closed it out. Last night they made him a passer guys didn’t make open shots. All in all I still say yes he should have been more aggressive.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
Kobe will never do what Bob Thorton did.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
cool rick he only goes to playoff games where we play the yankees and it doesnt look like either of us will be in the post season so maybe you can make 5 say “defend stupid antics of his mother to the public”
June 13th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
Other than Ray Allen, I don’t know if you can say that anyone else is having a great series. It’s been inconsistent across the board
June 13th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
that pretty much explains how every team plays lbj and the cavs and what the usual end results are…
June 13th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Scalabrine > Kobe
June 13th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
mmonast- 5. Watch Tribe lose to Yankees with a New York Yankees hat, Jesus Piece whilst getting a tattoo of the Yankees whilst my mom fraudulently aquires a hummer from a local dealership.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Ballin ‘09 is going to be filled this upcoming season. Better reserve your seats now because it is going to get heated
June 13th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Maybe the following is a stupid question, but I will ask it anyway.
When somebody talks about Kobe, it seems to be predominantly about when he decided to turn it on and take over, or “get off” as he ironically calls it. Why can’t he mix it up, i.e. find open teammates and then periodically create his own offense to keep the defense honest? Depending on teammates to help score points along with the ability to dominate is what made Jordan so great. Kobe is all about Kobe and that will hold him back.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
@Racist Nick
the Cavs will be lucky to have Lebron in two years.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Nick P won’t be jockin’ Bronnie when he is Brooklyn. Book it.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
rick dont forget all those jerseys he got in HS too!
im pretty sure yanks lost that game when he broke out the NY hat tho..
June 13th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
If the Cavs can’t get the man an All-Star/sporadic All-Star then he should bolt, no offense Cleveland fans.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
@Irish
Especially when Melo, Sheed, McDyess, Rip and Stuckey are tearing up the East.—-or something like that.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Ruckmaker…Jordan never won with out Pippen, Kobe with out Shaq…people talk about theses players and who they played with. Does it make them any less a good player? Does anyone truly win by themselves? My point is Kobe is not even top 10…He has talent..but he is not top 10…he has 10 years to prove himself but he still needs to prove himself. And trust me I think he is closer to the top 10 than Bron Bron is right now but the players mentions accomplished more than Kobe has. And not just titles.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Also, there are way too many variables in comparing Kobe to Lebron to Jordan to Majic to Bird to anybody else in a team based results setting. The real comparison when looking at who the greatest player is would be to pretend they were playing one-on-one. Who would win between Kobe vs. Jordan, Lebron vs. Kobe, Lebron vs. Jordan, etc.?
June 13th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
6) Keep impregnating my girlfriend with yet another out of wedlock child.
/dwight only has 1, so fuck off
June 13th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
Yeah I don’t understand the Kobe waits to get off crap either, play hard and play to score all of the time. LeBron does have that on him.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
oh..Fo Shizzle
June 13th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Yeah, I’m not down with the whole, “he didn’t win w/o arguement in basketball.” but in football, Parcells won with Belichick, but Belichick cheated w/o Parcells.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Come on now, don’t be silly. Nobody has forgotten that.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Well I didn’t hear anyone wondering how LeBron performed in the Celtics series, I was only hearing how great he was.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
When the Lakers win this series in seven, what’s the headline gonna be then?
June 13th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
I love how I’m the racist.
/fondly remembering Irish’s “melo came from the gutter, what do you expect” comment
June 13th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Hef puts more work into this blog than his own. How sad for him.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
It will be in the AM Roundup.
However, that will never happen. Lakers had to sweep in LA to win the series, no way they win back to back in Boston. I will be very surprised if they win Sunday.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
@Roman — Understood. I was only mocking the way people trivialize those championships just because Kobe had Shaq. I don’t personally think Kobe’s the second best all time, yet anyway. I think it’s too subjective to have one list of all time greats. Everyone’s going to have their own favorites. I think TBL’s is something like 1. Lebron in 07, 2. Lebron in 08, 3. Lebron in 05.
Anyway, I think Lebron’s going to be better than Kobe, if and when he actually develops a skill other than a mad bull rush. The guy’s like six years younger! But right now, I don’t think so, but it is close.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
When the Lakers win this series in seven, what’s the headline gonna be then?
i know the odds are slim to none, but that would be nice. Especially after this hate filled post by Kobe Hater #1, The Big Lead.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Kobe is no MJ…period. Although I do think that Kobe is working his way on making his own legacy but in this series especially in last nights game, he came up short. Kobe usually comes through in the end but for sure in this series he has not.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
So Kobe might be the best player ever after the Spurs series, but after 4 games against the Celts, it’s a bash fest? Some of you are really, really bad at judging something called a “body of work.”
I’ve bookmarked this thread, let’s revisit this in 7 years shall we?
June 13th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
a true exercise in futility. the one thing to look at: size.
kobe – 6-6, 220
mj – 6-6, 220
lebron – 6-8, 250
i dont have a wingspan measure handy, but i can only assume Lebron is the longest.
i really would have loved to put tracy mcgrady into this discussion, because he makes shit so effortless, but he doesn’t seem to – yet, at least – have the desire or killer instinct. he’s a bit lethargic and doesn’t seem to have that competitive drive that the other three have.
talent wise, though, im bullish on t-mac.those guys in the 6-6- to 6-9 range have a massive adv
June 13th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
who said he was the best player ever after the Spurs series? certainly not I. but there was insane fawning from the media after that series. the frothing was annoying.
if kobe somehow wrangles the wills of his teammates and gets the lakers the series win, i will take back all of this.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Lots of guys have won titles w/o Shaq, does that make them all instantly better than Kobe? Again, I went over this last night, but Jordan had terrible finals games. But the Bulls overcame those..this Lakers team cannot. Doesn’t that say more about the supporting casts than the superstars?
June 13th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Ok so is Tim Duncan’s legacy forever altered b/c he lost to Kobe in 5?
June 13th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
@nick p- you can bring it all on me all you want. I made a comment and was wrong. At least i can admit when im in the wrong
June 13th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
This is the most amazing post I’ve seen all year. I’ve been consistently bashing Kobe and his bulls**t all season and now it seems like everyone agrees that there shouldn’t ever have been a comparison with Jordan, that Lebron is much better player and teammate than Kobe, and CP3 was robbed.
I didn’t know there were so many detractors before game 5. All aboard?
June 13th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Kobe Proved Us Wrong
any other ideas?
June 13th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
LeBron is a “much better teammate” – what evidence to you have to support “much” better? They’re both terrific. I think Kobe is better right now. But the margin isn’t substantial either way.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
If Kobe was wise, he’d grow the afro back.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
“TBL gives Kobe blumpkins”
June 13th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
cursed,
it’s probably a combination of both. when kobe wasn’t shooting well, and dishing to his teammates, he was a much better player. his arrogance got in the way in the 2nd half and he went “retro-kobe”. jordan wouldn’t have done that, right?
June 13th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
being a terrific teammate is throwing players under the bus and demanding to be traded?
LBJ might(probably) hate his teammates but we dont know because he doesn’t air that shit in public
June 13th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
I don’t think Lebron’s better than Kobe, and I don’t think he’s a better teammate either. You can’t say Kobe didn’t have an effect on them playing better this year. They overhauled the Cavs roster and they’re still crap. He hasn’t done anything to make them better. How is he a better teammate?
June 13th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
i agree on the Kobe/Jordan stuff, and i agree on the LeBron/Kobe stuff.
My vote was for CP3 to win MVP, too …
June 13th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
I can think of one huge thing Kobe has done that Jordan, Magic, Bird, Wilt, Russell, Oscar etc. wouldn’t do…
June 13th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
@Hernia — he can’t. His hairline is receding. I just noticed that recently when someone pointed it out to me
June 13th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
He cheated on his wife, Jordan, Magic, Bird, Wilt surely did that.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
Forget to payoff a random chick he banged out in a hotel to keep her mouth shut?
June 13th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
Last year, LeBron took your mom, my cousin, and Hef’s dog to he NBA Finals. He single-handedly defeated the best defense in the league (#’s wise). Kobe, with a motley crew of his own the last few years, couldn’t get out of the first round in the West.
Question: Which team has been more competitive with Boston, Cleveland or the Lakers?
June 13th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
how?
why?
based on what?
June 13th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Hef’s dog > Pippen
June 13th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
MMONSAST, how quickly people forget (you) that LeBron lobbied for a trade for Kidd in a “by almost any means necessary” mentality. Bet that does wonders for team chemistry…you know, having you’re main guy outwardly say others on the current team should be traded.
Oh and LeBron openly bashed Mike Brown’s focus on defense (even though it almost saved his ass in the Celts series..).
People just obviously see and remember what they want to . I’m not saying Kobe’s a treat in the lockerrom, but either was the Airness.. you know, punching teammates and all and getting Doug Collins fired and throwing guys like Brad Sellers under the bus (Try reading Sam Smith’s book).
June 13th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
put it in a hotel workers pooper?
June 13th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Atlanta
As for remaking the Cavs team and them still stinking, they got rid of crap and replaced it with different crap. Seriously, the big moves were bringing in Delonte West, Wally world and Ben Wallace. That’s a horrendously bad team.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
TBL, we can play this game. LeBron was an embarrassment in the Celts series while Kobe has played below average. Doesn’t the fact the Cavs went to 7 that say more about how the supporting casts have played more than anything?
June 13th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
When LeBron ends up playing for the Knicks or Brooklyn, him not airing anything public will be over. Never underestimate the power of the NY media getting you to say something stupid about your teammates…
June 13th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
TBL, i would understand all of your arguments if you never made it known you disliked Kobe. But i would like to think that 90% of the commenters on here know you dont like Kobe.
im also disappointed you didnt add “cagey veteran” into this post. Ill wait for the Phil post
June 13th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
I want to keep going back and forth but this discussion is like arguing about politics, a complete waste of time, the LeBron is the best people will stay that way.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
use the Jordan from the 1988 and 1989 playoffs against Detroit, when the Pistons brought Joe Dumars and Jordan Rules.
fixed
June 13th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
The Hawks?
June 13th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
52 points in a GAME 7 begs to differ.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
And I think LeBron is great..but let’s not get carried away with “Making your teammates better” – something I’ve always openly bashed. I don’t believe it happens to the extend people give guys like Jordan credit for. Who has LeBron made better? Daniel Gibson?
June 13th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Coop, come on now, I’m not even going to respond to that b/c you know where I’m going to go.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
1st i dont forget he lobbied for a trade he never said things like “drew gooden you kidding me? we aren’t trading for kidd because of drew gooden!” like kobe did in re for bynum and kidd
kobe demanded a trade from LA something LBJ hasnt done, lbj never called out a player by name and basically said he is dogshit
all he says is we need to do better we need to step up i need to do this…that is probably why some people hate him, he tries too hard to say the right thing all the time
June 13th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
He can shoot jump shots.
Because he doesn’t rely on rushing the lane.
The US National team is way better now that’s Kobe’s aboard.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Kobe
June 13th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Making your teammates better
If we’re using that, doesn’t it mean that Magic Johnson is the GOAT?
/playing devil’s advocate
June 13th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
God I wish blogs would have been around when Jordan played. People might have a little different take on him.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
@nick p- remember, you are a follower. I stand on my own two feet and dont text message my hometown friends to come defend my arguments like you did all year. Go get your little greek ass pounded on E 6th and Huron
June 13th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
Good point, clown; I forgot about that angle.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
link?
i like you. you’re smart. you comment a lot. But if the guy was an “embarrassment” how did the series go 7?
June 13th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
I think the Celtics are playing significantly better now than they were in Rounds 1 and 2, that can’t be discounted either.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
MMONAST, LeBron didn’t need to use names, the guys on the team know who’s in jeopardy and who has expiring contracts. I’m not bashing LeBron for openly wanting a move to be made, I’m bashing people who see a giant difference. I’m sure Larry Hughes was loving all that talk about getting Kidd.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
How dare you! My mom had an off series. She’s a streaky shooter
June 13th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
CBH49er, precisely. People forget that the playoffs are a fluid situation, and teams just don’t come out and play the same way throughout. Matchups matter as well. That’s why TBL’s comments about who played the Celts more competitive is kind of juvenile – it’s the exact thought process I’d expect from a middle school basketball fan.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
you would have Piston and Knick fans bitching how they hate him.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
oh, and Craig Ehlo too.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
expiring contracts get traded all the time in the NBA…and larry hughes probably loved all the talk seeing he isnt a real PG and it would allow him to move to the position he was brought to cleveland to play
highes hated it when he was forced to play PG, hughes wasnt an expiring contract either
June 13th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
@cbh: there is no room in this discussion for logic and reasoning.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
TBL, the series went 7 b/c the Cavaliers were playing lock down defense – which people discount when they talk about supporting casts. When people mention the supporting casts, they only think about defense. And you didn’t answer me, is Duncan’s legacy forever tarnished b/c he lost in 5 games to Kobe? Or is Kobe the only one who takes full blame when a team loses?
June 13th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
I’m off to work, I’ll continue by dominance in this discussion later!
June 13th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
The Bynum thing isn’t the same because it wasn’t meant to be public. You turn off the cameras and see what Lebron has to say about his teammates. I actually give credit to Kobe for being so candid to fans, douchie ones at that
June 13th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Oh and I meant “offense” in #149 when i was talking about supporting casts and that’s all people care about..
dominance significantly reduced
June 13th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Mike Francesa with his typical perspective: “After the single most dominant first half in NBA Finals history, the Lakers …”
Does he not remember JORDAN’S 35 in a half against Portland? Ah, radio fools …
June 13th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
I think the Celtics are playing significantly better now than they were in Rounds 1 and 2, that can’t be discounted either.
Absolutely agree on that, but ATL would have still given them fits because they were so fast and long.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Late to the party here, but Mr. TBL, you still think Kobe/Odom/Gasol is better than Jordan/Pippen/Grant? For Kobe’s sake, Gasol had better get some muscles and Odom had better get a brain before game 5.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
After the single most dominant first half in NBA Finals history, the Lakers
they did break the NBA record for biggest margin in the first quarter.
Give em credit TBL. damn you are on fire this afternoon, what the fuck is in your kool aid
June 13th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Jordan/Pippen/Rodman > Jordan/Pippen/Grant
June 13th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
I think Kobe is an amazing offensive talent, has one of the smoothest shots I’ve ever seen and can absolutely rip out your heart at the end of the game. But this is as good as he gets, right now, in his prime, and he can’t put them over the top. This Lakers team is absolutely good enough to beat Boston, and Kobe isn’t getting it done, period. If you want to be the man, then you get the blame.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
unless it is in print, right in front him, he remembers nothing.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
@sparty- bill cartwright > three headed monster?
June 13th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
TBL..Fatso was talking about the team not the player with the most dominant…Fo Shizzle
June 13th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Roman, you see this:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/06/13/heyman.randolphupdate/index.html
June 13th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
if that three headed monster you speak of is Salley, Laimbeer and Edwards? hells no!
June 13th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Whoops forgot to include the 1990 Pistons who stopped Mr. Air, my point being its hard for one player to do it all….you need 1 sidekick and 2-3 good role players on the floor with you who you can trust and have a good floor chemistry. Kobe and LeBron have neither.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
What the fuck is that, Irish?
June 13th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Mike..I saw it…I have no problem with it except I want Jerry Manuel no where near this team…Fo Shizzle
June 13th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Mets should hire Art Howe.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
What the fuck is that, Irish?
i have made a lot of comments on here. Please be more specific dragonfucker
June 13th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
They should bring back Bobby Valentine.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
you need 1 sidekick and 2-3 good role players on the floor with you who you can trust and have a good floor chemistry. Kobe and LeBron have neither.
If LA was playing Detroit, Pau would fair much better and be the sidekick Kobe needs, but when a team has significant bulk/strength in the post he is exactly what he’s been in the last 2 series: soft.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
I’ll let him know to anticipate the arrival of a boat he probably just bought.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Jordan may have been an ass, but he was dangerous because he wanted to kill you, you knew he planned on killing you, and the one time you actually impaired his ability to do it, he made you look silly via his supporting cast. But no one wanted to win more (although his peers – Magic, Larry, Barkley even – might have rivaled him), and his legacy was that he led teams that had Bill Cartwright (at the end of his career), Will Perdue (who was lucky to have a career) and Stacey King (ditto) for bigs and beat good teams. Look at the 1992 Bulls. That isn’t exactly a dominant lineup on paper, but Jordan led them and made them win. And when he had to, he did it himself. The closest to that was LeBron in ‘07; he beat the Pistons (and whoever was talking about Ben Wallace, um, he sucks).
Oh, and the MJ/Pippen comparisons should be to Shaq/Kobe, not Kobe/Shaq . . . Pip never won without Jordan (and if you’re counting the Wizards years, I refuse to acknowledge that those ever happened). And no, I don’t think Shaq is better than Jordan, either.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Missed a good chunk of these, but I was busy buying a boat with Big Nuts cc and texting my pals to help me in an internet argument with mental retards.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
@nomo- you should not have told me i was right. It is too easy sometimes
June 13th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
It’s out in the public domain, genius. It’s more a matter of courtesy.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Ben Wallace didn’t suck in 2004. He friggin neutralized Shaq. He sucks now though.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
cmon nick p. I thought it was all in fun. you can hate me all you want. Just another one on the list
June 13th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
The question is: how does Irish even know that?
June 13th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
It’s more a matter of courtesy.
there is no courtesy with me. you should know that. Either you like me or hate me. I know who i am cool with on here and i know who hates me on here. It is all good with me in this little internet world we live in
June 13th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
TBL:Kobe/Lebron-Baiting::irish:race-baiting::PurdueMatt:economy-baiting
June 13th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
’sall good, irish
June 13th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
@mizerle06- you dumb mfer. remember who sent you that link to your New House, yep. keep running your mouth
June 13th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
jk, irish
/crawls under desk
June 13th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
/bettered
June 13th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
@mizerle06- i helped you out with sending you a link so you and your family could move to Florida. You were asking for help and i helped out. im a bad guy yeah, but i can be nice as well
June 13th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Oh yes, I’m quite the race baiter on here.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
@TBL- thanks for getting my heart rate up this afternoon. Appreciate you wanting me to be right here to see this post and argue.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Dwight Howard sucks…
June 13th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
+✡ mizerle
June 13th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Fellas, it’s a joke (well, except for the PurdueMatt part).
June 13th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
that’s unfair, mizer. MikeNYC hates white folks, too. (middle-class and lower)
June 13th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Dwight Howard sucks…
now that is the arguement i can do all day. Sparty, where were you all year? you never came out until i “called you out”
June 13th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
I will say PurdueMatt shows tremendous restraint, I have never seen him once respond to the 5,000 jokes made at his expense.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
I’m the man keeping you down, Clown.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
working…
June 13th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
@cbh: He doesn’t ever see them. He does is 1 post per day, then he’s yahtzee for 24 hours.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
@cbh: he shows tremendous restraint because he drops a ludacris comment and then runs off for the day while people refute it.
/not a joke
June 13th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
@irish,
actually, was always just an observer. i know i made a few comments here and there. I guess you could say being called out dragged me in full force.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
cbh +1
i dont know how he does it either.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
More jokes are made than ever before. Americans are happier and the economy is booming.
/PurdueMatt
June 13th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
See this and this for concrete explanation.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
I am busy enjoying the fruits of this economy, will spend my leisure time on the computer when the economy fails.
/PurdueMatt
June 13th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
fucking clown
/Fo Shizzle
June 13th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Francesa, what a clown. He just pinned the whole Kobe>MJ offensive thing on JVG. Some caller (hopefully a reader of ours) is calling him on it. Nice work, guy
June 13th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
TBL what got you so fired up to do this post?
June 13th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
@sparty- im glad i got you out of your house. You bring quality stuff to this great site. Pistons still suck though
June 13th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
Probably all of the knob slobbing on kobe lateley, particularly the comparisons to Jordan. Kobe wasn’t even the best player on his the lakers when they won the championships.
June 13th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
TBL knows buy calling out Kobe he will get tons on traffic on his site. He hates Kobe on a personal level but he knows dissing Kobe is good for business.
June 13th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
okay Beard. just make it more obvious you dont like Kobe. Who is your team?
June 13th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
dissing Kobe is good for business.
TBL likes and dislikes players and teams. That is okay with me. but when NBA experts call Kobe the best in the game, who am i going to believe. A known Kobe hater or an NBA expert? easy one
June 13th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
I couldn’t care less about kobe, he does what he does but him and bron both need considerable help before winning a championship. They aren’t the individual forces that Jordan was.
Unfortunately, my team is the Hawks
June 13th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
so Irish we are in agreement that TBL throws out his Kobe hate because he knows it brings traffic to the site.
June 13th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
a TBL conspiracy theory? tim donaghy nods in approval
June 13th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
you want traffic to your site? let CRM put up post pics.
June 13th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
you know what brings traffic? TBL’s favorite booty
June 13th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
@jb- i dont think it has anything to do with traffic at all. TBL brings in traffic with soccer posts
June 13th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Can’t click on that link, clown. Is it a pic of some ugly dude standing in front of what may or may not be a hottie?
June 13th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
How about this, this years Celtics are one of the greatest defensive teams EVER. It is a fact. A little stat for all, since MJ made it out of the first round in ‘88, he has shot under 30% from three more times (2) than he has shot over 40% (1). TBL, shut the F up about Kobe’s 2-10 from three this series. He is easily the greatest player in the league. Who cares if he isn’t MJ?
June 13th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Clown, you gotta admit the sister is incredible.
June 13th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
@ irish maybe he just likes to start shit then.
June 13th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
TheBeard, couldn’t disagree more, this Lakers team is good enough to win a title, not great, but good enough. It’s not like they are playing a great team, Boston is a good not great team.
June 13th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
The sister is badass. I would happy have a raucous
303 min roll in the hay with either her or Kim. I draw the line at the one that looks like Chyna, though.June 13th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
@jb- of course. but at the same time, he is defending his favorite player in the game. i repsect that because i sat on here many of days pounding the fact that Dwight Howard is the best center in the league. I got nothing but the upmost respect for TBL. He keeps me coming to work
June 13th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
@Coop – I didn’t necessarily mean that they both currently need the same amount of help, but that they have yet to prove they can win a championship as the best player on their team
I think they are similar to KG in that he is an awesome player, but he couldn’t lead a team to the title. But now he has two other awesome/really good player with him and her comes his title. Lebron and Kobe will be in the same boat, I feel
June 13th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Gotcha, although I don’t put KG in the discussion with Ko-Bron, other sometimes do.
June 13th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
i miss posts like this. 220+ comments about NBA
cant wait for Ballin 09
June 13th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
Kobe three championships, LeBron 0.
June 13th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
@tnrc75 Chuck Nevitt has championships. Jack Haley has championships. There are a lot of guys who are barely marginal who have lucked up and been on championship teams who have more championships than LeBron, that doesn’t make them better.
Lebron is a better player than Kobe. He undertands the TEAM game better. If basketball were a 1-on-1 sport, Kobe would be King. Try as he might, regardless of the number of assists he gets, Kobe doesn’t have the kind of innate understanding of basketball other great players have on the offensive OR defensive side of the ball. He cannot take over games that matter and affect the outcome. Remember Jordan’s steal against Karl Malone and winning shot? Kobe’s NEVER had one of those moments in a series that mattered. He never will. Remember how Tayshaun Prince shut him down during the 2004 series in Detroit? What’s he shooting this series? Just above 40%? Who’s he going to blame for his poor shot selection? He’s an electrifying scorer, but he’s not a great winner. He’s exciting to watch, but I firmly believe he will never win another title if he is the #1 option.
What I really problematic is that he doesn’t value his teammates either as members of a family who are reaching for the same goal (a championship) or as human beings. He is just not the type of guy who really cares about other people. He’s selfish, manipulative, and egotistical. That might work as a tennis player or as a golfer, but as the appointed leader of a team, it’s a huge hurdle to get over when you want to win a championship.
June 13th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
If you end that game after the first half, I think it’s a lot harder to say that Kobe isn’t a team player today. Kobe definitely allowed the rest of the team to control the game and deferred to everyone else quite a bit. When they started throwing the lead away Kobe was still trying to defer to everyone else and that’s what bit them more than anything else last night. They all looked to Kobe to step up and Kobe still seemed to think the team could step up and perform the way they did in the first quarter.
I think you can say Kobe should have recognized it earlier and tried to take the game over to stop the bleeding, but I don’t see how last night can be used as any sort of springboard for saying Kobe is a bad teammate.
June 13th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Kobe sucks as a teammate; true. But if it were a one on one game, he’d still be miles behind Lebron.
June 13th, 2008 at 10:24 pm
I know nobody my post at this point but I’ve got to say it, TBL you don’t know sh*t about sh*t. This guy can’t win with you, never has and never will. You constantly use the same Lebron vs. Kobe topic to disguise your otherwise disdain and contempt for him as a player. I have never seen a player in any professional sport constantly be berated for simply being the best at what he does. Maybe if you spent some time away from Bron-Bron’s butt and actually watched one of Kobe’s games objectively without prejudice, your rants would and could be taken a little more seriously. If the guy shoots 30 times, he’s a ball hog and freezes out his teammates but if he facilitates and involves his teammates and they still lose he doesn’t have the killer instinct and is not a true leader. I say it’s a all a bunch of bullsh*t and we should just enjoy watching one of the best basketball players of this and any other generation do his thing and stop trying to put other players on a pedestal that they haven’t earned yet.