How Much of a Hit Does Kobe’s Legacy Take?
NBA June 18th. 2008, 10:15am
Damn those pundits, why does anyone listen to them? The Lakers were supposed to be a lock, and a fourth title for Kobe (first without Shaq!) would vault him into the same sentence as Jordan. The inverse happened – outside of the first quarter in games five and six, the NBA MVP couldn’t find his three-point touch, and he struggled mightily getting to the basket against the most formidable defense in the league. Awful, indeed, Mr. Plaschke.
His offensive stats in this series – 40 percent FGs, 32 percent from three, 25.6 ppg – were all down from the regular season. Defensively, the two players he was primarily assigned to, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen, led the Celtics in scoring. The Lakers offensive juggernaut stalled, and the lack of defense that didn’t hurt them in the West was exposed. Kobe turns the big 3-0 this August, when he’ll be guiding the United States to Olympic Gold while simultaneously praying for the health of Andrew Bynum’s kneecap.
At the risk of getting too knee-jerk about next season, we anticipate the East rising – top two picks in the draft, Atlanta should improve, perhaps Philly has something percolating, and Boston should be back, although a year older and minus the trenchant desire to seek another title. The West? Phoenix and Dallas are aging and have new coaches in place; the Spurs have to find spare parts to match the nucleus, and questions abound, healthy-wise, for the Lakers (Bynum), Rockets (Yao), and Blazers (Oden). That paper Lakers dynasty everybody (including us) was frothing about prior to the NBA Finals? Wad it up and put it in the circular file.
All bets are off in regard to the above paragraph if Elton Brand leaves the Clippers.
MVP? More Like MIA (LA Times)
101 Responses to “How Much of a Hit Does Kobe’s Legacy Take?”
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June 18th, 2008 at 10:17 am
Billy Wagner has taken on a new dysfunction today. Also, who saw this post coming? Anyone?
June 18th, 2008 at 10:17 am
Rondo > Kobe
June 18th, 2008 at 10:18 am
Kobe has a legacy?
June 18th, 2008 at 10:19 am
@Hef – Wagner is developing a new pitch.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:20 am
Nobody ever scored more than 1 ppg when Jordan guarded them. True story.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:20 am
It’s the blank screen, no warning pitch. Billy should be in the HOF.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:20 am
who’s Kobe?
June 18th, 2008 at 10:21 am
Should his legacy take a hit IMO no, but thats not the way it works. Kobe has won three titles in his career and is and will remain one of the top players in the game for years to come. He still has time to win another title.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:21 am
I think it is safe to say he ain’t no Jordan.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:21 am
Kobe should be the leading scorer in the Colorado Prison Basketball Association.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Kobe should be the leading scorer in the Colorado Prison Basketball Association.
wow, bravo buddy brah fucking O
June 18th, 2008 at 10:23 am
LeBron’s stats sucked against the Celtics too, I really wish you would stop pretending because he had a great game 7 that he had a great series.
Cursed is right, the Lakers supporting cast was extremely overrated. Kobe was the only one showed up early last night, you could tell he was getting help from no one last night.
Just glad basketball is over so I don’t have to read anymore Kobe hate, unless they don’t win the Gold this summer, I am sure in TBL land that will be all Kobe’s fault and nothing to do with LeBron.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:23 am
He’s not Jordan but besides Jordan who is?
June 18th, 2008 at 10:24 am
idk, a lot of guys have won championships and lost them. it only hurts his legacy even you want to keep putting him in the same category as Jordan, with is lunacy. i say it hurts Phil Jacksons more…
June 18th, 2008 at 10:25 am
Yeah, but his teammates in that league probably wouldn’t be weak Europeans, Lamar Odom, and Chris Mihm, so he wouldn’t need to do so much scoring for his team to succeed.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:25 am
is bird legacy not as great? he lost in the finals.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:25 am
The last five years when the Lakers have been eliminated they’ve lost by an average of 24 points…not that you can blame Kobe entirely but maybe it’s a little harder to get the boys believing they can come back when you’re simply telling them how much they suck the rest of the season
June 18th, 2008 at 10:26 am
I will say that, even as a Kobe detractor, his 2 finals losses have come against 2 of the best man-on-man defenses I’ve seen… that Detroit team and this Celtics team could play stout D against almost any team I can think of, IMO.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:26 am
@sparty: You’re right; Phil Jackson should be getting hurt by this a lot more than he has. The lack of coaching in this series (he was outcoached by Doc fucking Rivers) really hurt the Lakers more than anything.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:26 am
unless they don’t win the Gold this summer, I am sure in TBL land that will be all Kobe’s fault and nothing to do with LeBron.
lol, that is so true
June 18th, 2008 at 10:26 am
Also, I told you guys Pau was a bitch.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:27 am
When you’ve coached 9 teams to championships, your legacy is pretty well cemented. This will not taint PJ’s legacy; it will only be a factoid in the whole story.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:27 am
Kobe should be the leading scorer in the Colorado Prison Basketball Association.
wow, bravo buddy brah fucking O
Sorry, didn’t mean to offend all the Kobe apologists in the blogosphere. Maybe it’s me, but something about narcissistic rapists just rubs me the wrong way. But, you know, whatever your thing is, you go with that.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:30 am
Phil Jackson is riding his motorcycle somewhere in North Dakota listening to Runaway Train by Soul Asylum on his ipod.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:30 am
and Blazers (Oden).
Lamarcus Aldridge will always be the dominant man on that team. Oden hasnt even played a game yet. Not one NBA game. What makes you think he will be good?
Talking about the 76ers and Atlanta get the talk in the East huh. Those two teams will be bottom feeders next year. Book it
June 18th, 2008 at 10:30 am
as weak as Kobe was in this series, it is a stretch to blame him for the Lakers defensive woes
June 18th, 2008 at 10:30 am
what is the issue? blank screen?
June 18th, 2008 at 10:31 am
I don’t think it will. Kobe was already a self-centered guy. The only people who didn’t know that are true Kobe believers (which includes a lot of media). If that disappointed them, then so be it.
This series didn’t come down to Kobe losing it. The Celtics were just better than the Lakers. Sorry if it delayed the Kobe coronation as the heir to Jordan, but there are other guys on the court.
I wonder if Andrew Bynum had been available if things might have been different.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:31 am
mizerle06: you wrote taint… huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, nice.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:31 am
Listening to Dan Patrick right now, Jason Terry thinks that Kobe has HELPED his legacy after this postseason…
June 18th, 2008 at 10:31 am
mizerle, while you do have a point, the fact remains that the three most recent PJax teams who have gone deep in the Playoffs have been blown out of the elimination games, which probably has to do a lot with the coaching decisions. Not showing up to the biggest game of the year is partly due to coaching, no?
June 18th, 2008 at 10:31 am
HTML server problem
June 18th, 2008 at 10:32 am
Oden will be a cross between Mutombo and Mourning.
His post moves are about as on par as Chris Mihm’s.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:33 am
Please no more MJ comparisons. He’s clearly not on that level. His team loses by 39 in an elimination game in the NBA Finals? To a team that was taken to 7 games by the Hawks?
What a fraud.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:33 am
MJ was the greatest Wizard ever. The locals are still drowning in the champagne and finding relief from the sweltering city heat under the championship banners. Oh that third comeback was a bust? Oops. What I meant to say was MJ doesn’t walk he floats – to a blackjack table.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:35 am
after this series, i have a new top 10 NBA players list:
1 – michael jordan
2 – magic johnson
3 – wilt chamberlain
4 – larry bird
5 – rajon rondo
6 – james posey
7 – oscar robertson
8 – kareem
9 – bill walton
10 – kevin garnett
June 18th, 2008 at 10:36 am
@irish: Regardless of what you think about Oden, Lamarcus and dominant should never be in the same sentence. He’s average at best.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:36 am
Wilt > Rajon? You’re going to regret that Rumeal.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:36 am
What a fraud.
yep its all Kobes fault. so stupid
June 18th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Mike NYC – That is by far the most complimentary thing I’ve earn seen to type.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Maybe it’s me, but something about narcissistic rapists just rubs me the wrong way
Kind of a bold statement considering he was never convicted. There are crazy women out there who will try to make a buck anyway possible. IMO, she knew what she was doing until he suprised with the ass-shot.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Losing by 39 is a disgrace.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:38 am
@alowaish: I see your point but I think he’s pretty well locked in as one of the best coaches ever, in any sport. I’m not a PJ fan or hater, just trying to be objective and not knee-jerky.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:38 am
@nick p – will always be the dominant man on that team
i was saying that Oden will never be that person. Do you have problems reading my comments?
June 18th, 2008 at 10:38 am
*ever
June 18th, 2008 at 10:38 am
@thesportshernia- blame it all on him. you know best
June 18th, 2008 at 10:39 am
How will we fit Kobe and the Celtics into Yardwork?
June 18th, 2008 at 10:39 am
As long as the MJ comparisons are done, we’ll be happy.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:39 am
@ john I totally agree with you. Kobe is gonna take all the heat for the Lakers losing when in reality they faced a team that was better.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:40 am
i never compared Kobe to MJ. Please, i know better
June 18th, 2008 at 10:40 am
Yeah he takes a hit. He has spent this entire series jacking up long shots. I would guess somewhere around 80% of his shots were from beyond 18 feet. Owwww, they’re playing defense, no fair.
I know this is completely cheesy, but a real team leader would never let his team roll over and take it in the ass like that. The Lakers are not a team, they are a collection of pro athletes. That attitude comes from Kobe.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:41 am
@ adamk…..who did Kobe rape and when did this take place?
Kobe’s reputation will continue to be what it was before the Finals; the best player in the world. LeBron’s reputation sure wasn’t tarnished in the eyes of his worshippers last year when he shot 35% from the field in a 4 game sweep. The last 2 years goes to show that 3 great players will beat 1 every time. Also, Jordan never won a ring without Pippen.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:41 am
@irish: No, I don’t. He’s more dominant than Roy? Just because he’s tall doesn’t mean he’s dominant. He’s softer than Rashard.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:42 am
Kobe Bryant has a wonderful skill of being unconcious at the end of games. Not many people have this. Reggie Miller was one who comes to mind. To me this is a skill just like jumpshooting and a quick first step. All these are put together to make you a valuable basketball player. I think, because that unconciousness is such a visible part of the game, people with this skill tend to be overrated. To me, Kobe is a top 5 player right now. I don’t buy into him being top 10 all time. His skill set and locale are sort of a perfect storm of hype.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:43 am
Oh so now we are comparing him to Larry Legend and not his Airness? Kobe’s legacy is already intact as one of the best players of his generation but he does not deserve a free pass here. The last 3 years it was “Oh well his team sucks” and now after pulling off the most lopsided deal in Sports history the sayin still is “Oh his team sucks”. Lets see what happens next year but if the Lakers take a step back I wouldn’t expect to see KB wearing the Purple and Gold for long.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:44 am
@CRM Kobe walks three in Royals loss after losing to celtics in game 6 of the finals.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:44 am
@nick p- i cant wait till the Cavs and Magic meet up. Ill buy you a ticket in Cleveland so you can go watch dominance in the paint
June 18th, 2008 at 10:44 am
When you get beat by 40 in the finals, you didn’t just roll over and let Bubba have his way with you, deep down you liked it and you know it.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:45 am
Lebron and the island of misfit NBA players loses in game 7 to the Celtics.
The uppity NBDL team that was the Atlanta Hawks loses in game 7 to the Celtics.
Kobe, with 1 all star and solid players/coach gets blown out in game 6 to the celtics.
And people still think Kobe>Lebron?
June 18th, 2008 at 10:45 am
How was Kobe involved in the KG trade to the Celtics?
June 18th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Tallguy comparing series like that to determine who are better players is the most idiotic argument you can make.
You obviously didn’t watch the playoffs if you think the Celtics team that played the Hawks and Cavaliers was the same team that played the Lakers.
According to your criteria I guess Joe Johnson is better than Kobe? Stupid.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:48 am
so its all lebrons fault when the cavs lose but not all kobes fault when the lakers lose?
superstars take all the blame…goes with the territory
June 18th, 2008 at 10:48 am
@ adamk- maybe it’s me, but something about people who constantly make cheap and ignorant kobe rape jokes rubs me the wrong way. was he convicted? no. the case that woman brought forth was ridiculous.
I don’t think Kobe’s legacy takes much of a hit here. He struggled against a team almost all of us were caught sleeping on, and a team that kept Lebron (best player in the L!) very much in check. I think someone said this already, but Phil Jackson may be starting to get exposed a little bit. I don’t know if he’s just gettin old, or if he’s tired of watching Odom and Gasol love tap rebounds around, but there were times when I was asking myself what the fuck he was doing, and I grew up thinking the man had all power and knew everything. If by “kobe’s legacy taking a hit” you mean that he won’t ever be able to be legitimately compared to Jordan (which is basically all that has happened due to this loss), then I think that’s not much of a hit to take at all seeing as how he shouldn’t even have been in that comparison at all yet. Who knows? Maybe this is better for Kobe, since a lot of the blame does fall on his shoulders. I could see him coming back even better next season. But I do think if they win 2-3 titles in the next few years, and Kobe is fantastic, everyone will forget about 2008 as a failure, and just see it as the year before the Lakers were ready. And don’t forget the fact that Kobe could lead the US to a gold medal this summer.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:49 am
clown, how can you compare those 2 trades. Minn got a young solid low post presence, Memphis got a backup pg and Kwame Brown.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:49 am
@ clown: well not only did the Lakers get Pau for next to nothing, they got Pau’s sandy vagina for free… even more lopsided, you see.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:49 am
You are right I should have said ONE of the most lopsided trades in sports history. In other news the NBA is fixed.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:50 am
This entire discussion is completely ridonkulous and is a case of serious overkill.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:51 am
@ tallguy: KG >>>>>>>>>>>>> pau… sure Boston gave up more, but they got a perennial all-star, not an occasional one more prone to getting abused like Pau.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:52 am
Just for old times sake:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hill/070326&sportCat=nba
June 18th, 2008 at 10:52 am
Pierce > Kobe
June 18th, 2008 at 10:52 am
If the Lakers would have had Pargo they soooooo would have won that series.
/CRM
June 18th, 2008 at 10:53 am
Kwame Brown was the first pick of the draft. He’s legit. Jefferson is a scrub. Pierce needs to shave. KG is fake. McHale can go to hell. I hate Boston.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:53 am
Hey August, have you been hearing about marc Gasol to the Grizzlies? Is this dude a clone of Pau or is he better/softer? Any ideas? It’s looking like the Grizz are going to suck for a really long time.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:53 am
How can anyone look at the perfromance of Gasol in this series and consider a trade involving him as the most lopsided in NBA history? People make it seem like they traded Brown and Critteden for Kareem.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:53 am
No, but when comparing 2 players, and they played the same team, and their supporting casts are extremely far apart in quality, it seems kinda fucking ridiculous to say Kobe is a better player when he fucking rolled over and died. The Lakers should have rolled in this series, period. They didn’t, and it’s Kobe’s fault.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:54 am
/head spinning
June 18th, 2008 at 10:54 am
TBL you need to replace the “Interview with Kornheiser” tag along the top and replace it with “Irrational Kobe/LeBron Debate” and let the people argue there.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:54 am
@ jim – that article was so beyond ridiculous, I thought she was kidding the first time I read it. now, after the hitler comparisons, I realize she’s just a moron.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:55 am
Pierce’s team > Kobe’s team
June 18th, 2008 at 10:56 am
yysa,
you missed my point…
June 18th, 2008 at 10:56 am
tall guy, why don’t you compare players when they play on the same team with the same cast of characters?
2006 US National Team: LeBronze*
2007 US National Team (w Kobe): Gold
*HT, cursed
June 18th, 2008 at 10:56 am
Wow!!!!! Hyperbole, thy name is tallguy.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:58 am
@ tallguy – The celtics were a much different team when they got to the finals. They sort of changed after pierce carried them in the game 7 in cleveland. I watched the Hawks make them look silly at all 3 home games. The celtics were very lucky to survive those first 2 series, but in the long run, it actually made them stronger than they were in the regular season for the finals. Go back and watch that hawks series, you’ll see how terrible they were on the road.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:59 am
Tallguy do you even watch the NBA? After game 1 it was obvious to anyone the Lakers didn’t have the size inside to match with the Celtics. Tell me who in their supporting cast is so great? That is a media myth. Vujacic sucks, Turiaf sucks, Radmonovic sucks, Farmar is mediocre at best. And I am with Darrell Pau Gasol was absolute garbage in that series.
To others, if you don’t want to read this debate then don’t, it’s pretty simple.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:00 am
Can we all agree that K. Perkins has the worst facial hair of the modern NBA era? that chin music is heinous.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:00 am
Timmy Duncan + KG > Lebron + Kobe
June 18th, 2008 at 11:00 am
The guy is only 30. There’s plenty of time for him to solidify his legacy. You know when the Lakers get hot next year with a healthy roster, they’re going to overload features on how this series was burned into their minds, etc etc.
Also, Lebron has no legacy. The dude is 23. He’s got a long way to go before we get any idea of what he means to the NBA
June 18th, 2008 at 11:00 am
And just like Jordan, the more he’s pissed off, the more unstoppable he is.
Jemele Hill obviously was to busy watching The Downfall when she wrote this.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:00 am
Sam cassell is unconscious anytime he’s on the court…kobe was more invisible than unconscious after the quick start
June 18th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Brian Skinner respectfully disagrees
June 18th, 2008 at 11:02 am
@mizerle06: he’s supposed to be a lot thicker, but not as offensively gifted as Pau… I’m excited to see what Iavaroni can do with him this summer.
All indications are that he’s going to play for the Griz next year, and he’s got to be better than Darko, so we’ll see.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:03 am
are Darko and Kwame still on the roster?
June 18th, 2008 at 11:05 am
Darko yes; Kwame no… he was just cap sapce.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:06 am
clown -
I’ll give the TWO reasons for gold last year. One was Kobe, who obviously has the talent. The other (and much more significant, IMO) was Jason Kidd. They needed a distribute first point guard who would get the ball to LBJ, Kobe, Carmelo, Howard, etc… He did and the US rolled.
That isn’t Chauncey. He’s a shooting guard first. It really isn’t CP either, but I think he’s good enough to adjust to that as he gets older. Deron Williams is that guy too. Those two are now getting mature enough as basketball players to carry that squad.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:08 am
Doesn’t Kobe need finger surgery? Will he still be playing in the Olympics?
June 18th, 2008 at 11:08 am
August –
Drew Gooden would also like to disagree on the facial hair comment. The Carnival beard beats Perkins’ hairy problem by a landslide.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:14 am
Soulja Boy from the Wizards would like to throw his razor in the ring for consideration as well.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:16 am
@ Darrell, the mentally handicapped aren’t up for consideration because they don’t know any better.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:29 am
J-Kidd is going to be the PG for the Olympic Team
June 18th, 2008 at 11:30 am
J-Kidd is going to be the PG for the Olympic Team
we’ll find out Monday. I would say no at this point if Coach K wants to win Gold
June 18th, 2008 at 11:33 am
That was not MY Opinion… It was just reported he’s on the team
and BTW has J-Kidd won anything less-than-Gold in the World Championships