Schilling May Be Done Forever
Baseball June 20th. 2008, 1:00pm
The blogger who would help turn the Red Sox from lovable losers to perennial contenders is having shoulder surgery next week. The 41-year-old told WEII he might have to hang up his bloody socks:
“My season is over and there is a pretty decent chance I have thrown my last pitch forever.”
“If you use a scale of 1-10 and 10 is pitching in the big leagues, I’m at about 3 right now.”
Schilling’s shoulder has been a problem for awhile and he’s been out since Spring Training. After an MRI earlier this week, Schilling finally might be ready to put living comfortably ahead of playing baseball.
“I’m going in to make it not hurt anymore.”
How selfish of him. He doesn’t want his shoulder to hurt anymore. Doesn’t he realize Bill Simmons hasn’t celebrated a championship in near 72 hours?
If Schilling is done, he’ll go down as one of the best ever. What he did in Boston alone should result in some sort of Rocky-esqu statue. And who can forget his 1st World Series title in Arizona? On top of all the big wins, he’ll easily be remembered as the greatest pitcher to ever come out of Alaska.
Schilling currently sits at 216 wins with 3,116 strikeouts. Some idiot in my office just said Schilling doesn’t deserve to make the Hall-of-Fame. The K’s and titles and “Boston thing” will almost undoubtedly get him in. Anyone disagree?
[SI]
108 Responses to “Schilling May Be Done Forever”
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June 20th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
No chance for the Hall of Fame. Next.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
Schilling’s sock…were ketchup packets go to die.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
He is from Arizona. He may not have been born here but he was raised here. No matter how much of a jackass he has been while in Boston, Dbacks fans will always be grateful for the guy.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
PAINT! Doug told me.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
F him and his B.S. sock.
Let me reiterate my hope for this surgery to go terribly horribly wrong and him dying on the table.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
I say he is not a Hall of Famer (but Randy Johnson is). Also, that’s ketchup on his Sox, Big Nuts said on behalf of all Yankee fans.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
TBL off for the day? must be nice
I dont like Schilling, but he will be a lock for the HOF.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
one of the many guys who said he was going to bring a WS title to boston but then he actually did.
I saw HOF, his latter year success was long enough to warrant serious consideration.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
if he’d be eligible for the HOF in 2012, there’s no way he’d be first ballot… Bonds, Biggio, Clemens, Sosa, Piazza…
June 20th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Total lock for HOF
June 20th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
You’re crazy.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
he’s borderline but not quite.. according to baseball reference his most similar pitchers are kevin brown bob welsch.. ehhhh
June 20th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
If Schilling gets in for pitching Boston to the title, Jack Morris belongs too for pitching the greatest game 7 in WS history.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
If he retires, will he shut up?
June 20th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Ask Bert Blyleven about the “Lock for HOF” mentality.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
@grunge
Bonds, Clemens and Sosa will not make it in on the first ballot. He’s got a chance if it’s just Biggio and Piazza.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Call me crazy too but I think Schilling is a lock for the Hall.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Bert Blyleven>>>>>>>>>>>>Curt Schilling.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
But Curt might get in just because of 2004 which is stupid.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Jack Morris not in the hall baffles me…
June 20th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
and with that my belief in God resurfaces.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Curt should get in for 10-2 2.23 ERA in postseason. Not just 04
June 20th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Blyleven needs to shut the fuck up. His numbers are probably barely good enough to get in but he whines more than my 2 year old. If he had won 300 games instead of 287, he’d be in. But he didn’t so fuck him.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Obviously Curt isn’t as good an athlete as Tiger Woods if he can’t pitch with a silly little shoulder injury. Guess Tiger really is amazing.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Good riddance to him and his bloody tampon.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Andy Pettitte and Curt Schilling are comparable to one another, correct? I don’t think Andy gets in either.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
Really? That’s cherry picking a bit isn’t it. He was lucky enough to pitch on good teams (he was never the best pitcher on his team after 1998) that make the playoffs and we’re going to reward him for that? We’re going to base it on the 19 playoff games and not the 569 other games he pitched?
June 20th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
While I do agree with you that Bert whines about this, I still think he was better than Schilling.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Done for the season? Aww Fuck and Ponson already got signed.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Dude Hef, for a Dbacks fan you are selling him real short. Clearly you are forgetting 01 in the 5 game Cardinals series. 2 CG 1er. His regular season numbers are not as good because he played for the Phils for a decade. If he had played on a team like the Yanks his whole career (Andy Pettite) he would be damn close to 300 W’s
June 20th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Andy Pettitte and Curt Schilling are comparable to one another, correct? I don’t think Andy gets in either.
Pettitte is a known cheater.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
Schilling = Kenny Rogers, their stats are comparable. i don’t think Kenny has a championship though.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
not to mention that he didn’t face the other team’s ace in the playoffs either
June 20th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
@Hef
Doesn’t Shill have 3 championships though, one of which with your D-Snakes?
June 20th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
YYSA, I’m a dbacks fan but I’m not a homer. I’m not gonna base the HOF on a few games. I think he’s a very good pitcher, but he’s not HOF and neither is Pettite. Blyleven may whine a lot (a lot!) but he’s got a legitimate beef.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
i always heard that the MLB HOF is harder to get into than the other sports. People on here gave great examples of two pitchers that should be in, Jack Morris and Burt B.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Thank you for not mentioning Jim Rice.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Sandy Koufax is a HOFer with 165 wins. Does anybody seriously believe that Koufax isn’t worthy? Of course not. The Hall isn’t all about stats–nor should it be.
Having said that, Curt Schilling probably should be a HOFer as well, as he was gold from ‘97-’04 and absolutely dominating in post-season play. No, he doesn’t have the stats, but anybody who any serious baseball fan will value Schilling as one of the very best pitchers of his era.
Also, Morris should absolutely be in for the same reason. Blyleven? No.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Morris should be in just for that awesome grizzly stache.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
brain fart
June 20th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
I am not a serious baseball fan. At all. Now I wish I hadn’t spent all of those years watching him pitch every fifth day in phx. So many wasted nights.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Morris also gave one of my all-time favorite sports quotes:
June 20th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
Perhaps David Eckstein is a Hall of Fame lock since he has 2 titles?
Schilling – No Hall.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
Don’t have an argument whether or not he should be in, but I’m confident he will be.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
“The upside is, now I’m going to be able to dedicate more time to being a toal shithead on my blog,” Schilling was later quoted as saying.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Spoken like a bitter Phils fan Gonzo.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Schilling’s career stats are not hall-worthy. They are not even particularly close. BUT, he was a dominant post-season performer who pitched well in four world series, winning four. Whether it was paint, ketchup or blood is beside the point. The dude had an experimental procedure performed on his ankle so he could appear in an elimination playoff game, which he then won. Oh and he did it for the Boston Red Sox against the New York Yankees and helped end the championship drought. He is a star player in one of the most compelling sotry lines the sport of baseball has ever known. He may not go in on the first ballot, but he goes in.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Oops. Meant winning three.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Actually it should be.
It’s important to distinguish which stats are important, though.
Wins obviously isn’t.
What is?
Innings pitched, strikeouts, era-adjusted ERA, to name a few…
Bert: 4970, 3701, 118
Jack: 3824, 2478, 105
One of those guys is a HOF. I’ll let you decide.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
boston sports … what comes up, must go down…
Red Sox win World Series, Patriots lose super bowl
Celtics win the nba, schilling out for the year
June 20th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Exactly how I feel Mizerle.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
As a fan in the Washington area Alo I would love to have the “downs” that Boston fans have had to deal with.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
I do think he gets in because of the hysteria that surrounds him, do I agree, no. The Baseball HOF is the best players ever, its tough to get in, and I do not think he is one of the best ever. This isn’t the Basketball or Football, when really good players get in. Greatness over an entire career is for Cooperstown, not just great moments.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Schilling has a better case than Jack Morris.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
CBH, I’m not bitter. We needed to trade Schilling back in 2000. I just think that Bert Blyleven and Jack Morris were far superior that Schilling.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Shilling won’t make the HOF because of the liberal media.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Nick is like my 5th favorite poster on this site. That’s quality right there.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
If Pedro Martinez (2694 IP) retired tomorrow, would he get in?
Longevity is important, but not as important as dominance over a shorter period of time.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Hef’s mad because Schilling probably decides to go to the HOF in a Sawx jersey.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
I don’t feel like looking up stats but am I missing something? I remember Schilling being good once he got to Philadelphia in the early 90’s and being good the entire time until now. I don’t remember him ever being characterized as not great or average as most of you seem to be saying he has been.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Jack Morris has a better case than Jim Rice.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
No problem with Schilling in the HOF. I have a much bigger problem with 1 inning closers getting consideration than I do a guy like Schilling who was completing games in an era where the specialty pitcher reigns supreme.
If Schilling gets in the HOF, former Phils GM Ed Wade should give the induction speech for giving away Schilling for 30 cents on the dollar when the Phillies traded him. Maybe he can invite Travis Lee and Omar Daal.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Pedro’s a lock for the same reason Sandy Koufax was. Dominance.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Is he going to wear that jersey to Blyleven’s induction ceremony?
June 20th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Fine. But, I’m not going to be the one who has to tell Sandy Koufax we’re removing his plaque.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Maybe he can invite Travis Lee and Omar Daal.
What about me? I was a can’t miss prospect.
/Nelson Figueroa
June 20th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
It’s not whether Bonds, Clemens or Sosa make it… at the very least they’d split a lot of the votes – and Schilling still needs 75% of the total ballots to name him.
I think the guy is a HOFer, but he’s by no means a lock.
of the current or recently retired pitchers, these all are HOFers:
Pedro
Maddux
Randy Johnson
Glavine
Clemens* (yeah, I know, but…)
Smoltz
… I can’t rank Schilling as “better” than any of them.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Sandy Koufax is the best baseball player since Hank Greenberg.
/Nick P
June 20th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
grunge, you forgot David Wells. Honest mistake.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
Ricky Henderson is a sure lock to get in. What are peoples thoughts on Tim Raines getting in?
June 20th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Schillz is running for office next, and he’ll win ause he’s a douche.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Ricky Henderson is a sure lock to get in.
Isn’t he still playing Quintuple A ball somewhere?
June 20th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
The reason Innings are needed is to put the era adjusted ERA in perspective.
1000 innings of 118 is “good.”
5000 innings of 118 is “incredible.”
I don’t know why you felt the need to bring up Pedro (2694 IP, 3042 K, 160 ERA+).
Only a fool would think he doesn’t belong.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
Considering he’s the career leader in era-adjusted ERA, I don’t think he’ll have a problem getting in.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
I don’t get a lot of you guys and the media. Why such hate for Schilling? Yeah, he talks alot, but don’t most of you–and all of talk radio–do the exact same thing? Thats extremely hypocritical. He’s just giving his opinion just like all of you. He’s just famous and gets much much more attention for it.
Also, which way would you rather have it: athletes not talk at all or say things you might think are stupid or out of line? First, we get upset when players quit talking to the media and shutting people out (or, at least the media gets upset about it) and then we get mad when players voice their opinions on blogs. Which is it? What do you want? None of Schilling’s comments are dumber than many of the ones I’ve read on this site or others, sure they may be just as dumb but nothing to truly hate the man for. Also, pretty much everybody agrees with his assesment of Kobe during the finals, so on occasion, maybe he has a point. He’s never whined about playing time and he’s always brought his best. So why so pissy?
June 20th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Tim Raines problem is that his prime years were in Montreal where nobody saw him play or gave a shit about the Expos.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Schillings ERA+ is 127. Looks like he should be in. My bad.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
/threadjack
The Jays have fired Gibbons and re-hired Cito Gaston
/end threadjack
June 20th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
I don’t know Tim Raines’ numbers, but I remember him with the Expos, and he was a really good player.
If the steroid era does anything for baseball, it could make alot of the known cocaine users from the late 70’s to the mid 80’s much more palatable for HOF voters.
June 20th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
So he’s like Bob Gibson with two full seasons less of productivity?
June 20th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
@August:
Didn’t you forget the PurdueMatt tag?
and @grunge:
I’m not an expert on the HOF balloting, but I was under the impression that a vote for one player does not prevent another player from getting a vote (i.e. if there were 50 players eligible at the same time, all 50 could get in if they were each named on at least 75% of the ballots). Is this correct?
June 20th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Of course in about 15 innings of pitching Mariano Rivera will be the leader in ERA+
June 20th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
Cito Gaston again? Are you serious!?!?!? At least even if the O’s collapse we will have the Blue Jays to finish last for us.
June 20th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
Gaston did win 2 World Series.
June 20th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Gaston did win 2 World Series.
When some of us were ten.
June 20th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
@YYSA: Rivera deserves to be in the HOF.
June 20th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
What Sterlin said.
Blasts from the past don’t ever work.
June 20th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
We’ll second that.
/Dick Vermeil and Jack McKeon
June 20th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
excuse my ignorance, but how does era adjusted ERA work. Obviously higher numbers are better (rather than low numbers for regular ERA). Is it a player’s comparison to his contemporaries ERA, kinda like VORP?
June 20th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
@Hef- I didn’t say he didn’t of course he does. I just thought it was funny he was going to pass Pedro once he hit 1000ip. Besides of course he deserves the HOF. For giving up the bloop single alone.
/homer
June 20th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
100 = exactly average.
110 = 10% better than average.
June 20th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
412, I meant blasts from the past going back to the same team.
Re: Joe Gibbs to Washington
Art Shell to LA/Oakland (Shell was successful in his first stint)
June 20th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
o, ok. that makes a lot of sense.
June 20th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
YYSA: no offense earlier.
June 20th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
none taken
June 20th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
/sincere
June 20th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Fashionably late to the party, but I always laugh when I hear the Schilling-HOF-because-of-his-postseason-stats argument. If that’s the case, Mark Lemke deserves to be in the HOF.
Postseason performance is but one component of a MUCH larger picture. For the same reason I don’t think Raines gets in, Schilling wasn’t one of the best players in the game for an extended period of time. Maybe ‘98-’04…HOFers (at least in my opinion) should be at the top of the league for a solid 10+ years. Schilling was not. Neither was Raines, and neither was Jack Morris.
June 20th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
You are correct, but most of the writers will tend to exclude one person for another… if they vote for Clemens, it makes it less likely they would also vote for Schilling. Plus, some of the voters are just assholes.
June 20th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
but the stache ATL, thats a Cooperstown stache!
June 20th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
How many players–even players with really solid careers–are truly at the top of the league for 10+ years? Using this criteria, even an indisputable great such as Pedro Martinez wouldn’t qualify. And, Koufax just had the 6 years where he was dominant.
June 20th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
They should open up a whole wing at Cooperstown for mustaches, called The Pete Vuckovich Showcase
June 20th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Oscar Gamble deserves a spot in Cooperstown as well.
June 20th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
@412 – perhaps I should have said “should be close to the top of the league.” But either way, Pedro was just that from ‘97-’05. And obviously I’d make exceptions for guys like Koufax where someone was absolutely dominant for a shorter period of time.
June 20th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
@412, I should also add that I tend to have very high criteria for the HOF. I don’t think a “solid” career warrants the HOF. Obviously, the criteria are subjective as hell, but that’s just my opinion. Morris was definitely solid, and turned in one of the best postseason pitching performances of all time. But I don’t think he’s HOF material.
June 20th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
@ grunge
I see what you’re saying, but with all the animosity a lot of writers had towards players connected with steroids, and lots of those writers being assholes, i could see them vote a player who was never questioned for steroids in ahead of them.
June 20th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
@ ATL – I agree that a “solid” career shouldn’t make one a HOFer. This is why I don’t think a guy like Blyleven should be in. The man has stats, sure. But, did anybody ever watch Bert Blyleven (who was a member of my beloved ‘79 Buccos team) and say “There is one of the all-time greats”? And yet, Schilling–with far lesser career stats–is most definitely among the “all-time greats”.
June 20th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
in all fairness to Bert B, we are in an age where the media plays instant historians every chance it gets, so anyone that shows any inkling of being really good is called an all time great way before their career has finished.
In reality, there are very few all time great players on the field now that will be mentioned in every conversation about the game in 10 years.
June 20th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
No Hall. No Way. No how. If he makes the Hall it would only be because of what he did in Boston. Period. I think the standards of the Hall of Fame and voting BBWAA will see the difference in a good pitcher and a Hall of Fame pitcher.