Healthy Debate: Tim Tebow vs. Tommie Frazier
College Football, Video December 10th. 2008, 1:45pm
Over the weekend, this quote from the Miami Herald made the rounds: FSU coach Bobby Bowden said of Tebow: “He brings a little Bronko Nagurski to the quarterback position.” This led to much fawning from the announcers (Gary Danielson and Verne Lundquist) of the SEC title game, who were in left in awe of Tebow’s impressive performance in defeating Alabama. He’s already got a title and a Heisman, and there’s an outside chance he secures another of each this season. There have been no indications that he’d leave early for the NFL, meaning there’s a chance Tebow does the impossible and wins three Heismans and/or National titles. That would definitely put him on the short list of greatest college football players, ever.
For now, we’ll just compare him to perhaps the finest college player (not talent or winner or stat-monger) in the last three decades (going back to 1980): Nebraska’s Tommie Frazier.
For those of you running around in diapers when Frazier was running the wishbone for Tom Osborne, here’s a primer:
* Started as a true freshman in 1993, went 9-3. One of the highlights was this 52-7 rout of a highly-ranked Colorado team. Lost the Orange bowl to Florida State, 27-14.
* Took Nebraska to the title game as a sophomore, and the Cornhuskers missed a field goal at the end and lost to Florida State. Frazier was named MVP in the loss.
* Struggled through blood clots and missed some time in the regular season. Nebraska managed to get to the title game (thanks, Lawrence Philips), and the Cornhuskers topped a Warren Sapp and Ray Lewis-led Miami defense. Frazier was named MVP.
* Won back-to-back titles with a romp over Florida. Victory included “the run” which is below. Won a third straight national title game MVP award. This team was considered one of the greatest in college football history. The backfield consisted of Phillips and Ahman Green.
How did Frazier not win a Heisman? He wasn’t going to get it as a freshman. Tough to argue against Charlie Ward leading the ‘Noles to the National title. Salaam rushed for over 2,000 yards, and the three guys who did it before him (Marcus Allen, Mike Rozier, Barry Sanders) all won the hardware. George rushed for over 1,900 yards, had three 200-yard games, including one against Notre Dame. He narrowly won the Heisman over Frazier in 1994.
1992 Gino Torretta Miami (Fla) QB Sr. (2nd – Marshall Faulk)
1993 Charlie Ward Florida State QB Sr. (2nd – Heath Shuler)
1994 Rashaan Salaam Colorado RB Jr. (2nd – Ki-Jana Carter)
1995 Eddie George Ohio State RB Sr. (2nd – Frazier)
123 Responses to “Healthy Debate: Tim Tebow vs. Tommie Frazier”
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December 10th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Best option quarterback ever.
December 10th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
what NSR said.
December 10th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Tebow couldn’t hold his jock. Man, were those teams good.
December 10th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
By the way, Huskers were robbed in ‘93. Robbed! Bowden must have paid off the refs that year.
December 10th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
He was downright fraudulent in the NFL.
December 10th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Frazier> Tebow
December 10th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Notre Dame was robbed in 93 as well.
December 10th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Tebow actually reminds me a lot of Frazier’s backup, Brooks Berringer.
December 10th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
By the way, Nittany Lions were robbed in ‘94. Robbed! Osborne must have paid off the voters.
Ki-Jana deserved Heisman that year too.
December 10th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
It’s a fact… Ki-Jana was robbed.
/It’s also a fact that the Queen is so old she doesn’t know her ABC’s anymore.
December 10th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Roeth-that 94 team was one of my favorite teams ever to watch.
December 10th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Karma baby.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Tebow is great but most of his rushing TDs come from inside the 10 meaning hes not an overall threat to score at will like Frazier and that offense was. Plus Tebow has playing receivers that YAC up Tebows stats.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
NSR – how is PSU getting screwed Karma? It’s not like they screwed someone over previously.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
NSR, what the fuck does Karma have to do with anything, 94 PSU was one of the greatest teams ever assembled and were robbed of a title because everyone wanted Osborne to get one.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
Not karma against PSU, but karma for NU. Sorry.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
Its a good thing that you are only talking about Frazier and football because if you start talking about character then Frazier was a monstrous jackass punk. Tebow is a church going community leader. Pure athletic talent should never be the only criteria, its not that way in life and it should be that way in awarding athletic awards. Ki-Jana Carter played with a ton of other talent and was very good, but not great. Rasham was/is a dolt and while I am a CU fan through and through I was shocked that he won.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
Karma Kramer?
December 10th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
somebody call the nittany WAAAAAA-mbulance…
/just kidding yall
December 10th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
System QB
NEXT!
December 10th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Inside the 10? someone’s being generous. Try the 3.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
Spence – that ‘94 team is dear to my heart (freshman year).
Didn’t Frazier have some blood clot issue that essentially killed his career? Am I thinking of the wrong person.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
‘94 Penn State barely beat Indiana. Next question.
/knows how to really get them riled up
December 10th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
I still don’t understand, Karma for Tom Osborne losing 2 games a year for 20 years and finally pulling an undefeated season off? Overrated coach, massively overrated team (94, not 95, they were the tits).
December 10th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
it’s a sport, not a humanitarian award.
sure, tebow is a great human by all accounts, but should we give him the heisman just because sam bradford or colt mccoy don’t circumcize filipinos?
December 10th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Nantz was dreaming of the Masters on that call.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
aren’t we all dreaming of the masters?
no, just me?
fuck you then.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Tebow > Frazier
December 10th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Of course I’m being facetious, but it’s karma for the ‘93 title game when the refs blew a couple of calls that would have swung the game the other way, a block in the back on a punt return that didn’t really happen, and calling a TD for a WIlliam FLoyd dive that was actually a bit short.
I have a hard time calling the ‘94 team overrated. Do I think the ‘94 PSU team to be one of the best ever? Certainly, but it would have been a hell of a game.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
@Tampa Bo – That’s racist.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
And I think calling Osborne overrated is absurd. Maybe early in his career when his record was inflated by playing cupcakes, but his last five years are tough to match.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Did Frazier lose any bowl games to suck ass Big Ten programs? No?
Frazier > Tebow
December 10th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
NSR, thank god the BCS didn’t exist then, no one would have wanted to see that game.
I’m sick of all this Tebow the humanitarian crap, sure I’m glad hes not a dirtbag, but for all we know he’s a meth addicted pedophile. He has made many trips to the Philippines….
December 10th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
If you were watching that game at the time, you weren’t dreaming of the MAsters.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
torreta > Faulk
/a lie
December 10th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
how?
why?
arrest record?
December 10th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
@Tampa Bo – That’s racist.
Probably.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Did anyone see the stats on that 1995 Nebraska team that beat Florida? They didn’t play one game within 14 points the whole year. Wow. Domination.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Not a Nebraska fan by any means….but Frazier was the most dominating college football player I ever saw. It wasn’t just the talent around him either. Ask Florida players from that 1996 Fiesta bowl….that 75 yard run he had was insane.
Tebow to me is a Jacob Hester that can jump pass and who’s longest run this year is 26.
Meyer uses him like that guy you are trying to get the Heisman on Xbox. Inside the 5 you give it to him till he scores to pad his stats.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
wasn’t that game a total blowout, hernia?
December 10th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Now that’s racist.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VojVTyYWGds
Best Youtube link of that Fiesta Bowl game.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
Actually, it was. 62-24. Ok, maybe you were.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
The ‘95 Husker team was the most dominant team I have ever seen (even more dominant than ‘01 Miami). They beat teams, on average, 55ish to 13ish and beat 4 top-10 teams by an average of 30+ points. They averaged 400 rush yds/game and hammered the mighty Gators. Tebow is nasty and is the best college player of his era for sure. Comparing the two is really hard because the game is so different than it was back then. The Huskers were robbed in the FSU game in a # of ways (the william floyd fumble at the goal line, the block in the back, the roughing the passer) so they were, in essence, a hose job away from 3 straight titles.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
yea, i was also 11 and probably pre-occupied with mortal kombat and the glory that was the blood code.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
better than vince? or are eras so short now, that he’s already bygone?
December 10th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
(even more dominant than ‘01 Miami)
sure
December 10th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Gods, I’ll take Miami first, more explosive, way more NFL players, but yeah, those are the top 2.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
off-topic
anyone cares that the Arena Football League is taking a year off? Doesn’t ESPN invest in that? Where is it’s coverage of it’s own bad investment? And more importantly, Why isn’t Jaws breaking down the AFL’s breakdown? He owns that team in Philly that won last year, right?
December 10th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Best college player of this Era has to be Leinart so far….no matter what he has done in the pros. He is 1 yard away from leading a team to 3 Natl. titles with gaudy stats in an offense that wasn’t pass happy. All the while following a Heisman winner and probably handling more pressure and media than any previous college QB.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
more dominant than 01 Miami in my eyes, too. Of course, the Hurricanes had more talent, but Nebraska was destroying people that year…
December 10th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
three? he only has 1…
December 10th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
no.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
I did not say they were as talented as Miami, but they were certainly more dominant. And yes, Tebow is better than Vince. He will have a Heisman, most likely 2 national titles with a shot at a third. How is Vince better than this?
December 10th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
but Nebraska was destroying people that year
what teams did they play that year?
/have had this argument on this site at least 100 times
December 10th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
What about 2005 USC.
/ESPN’d
December 10th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Mc Fadden>Tebow
/last yeared.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
4 teams that FINISHED the season in the AP top-10…but other than that no one.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
@Makblunt – Everyone awknowledges the split with LSU unless you are an LSU fan or a fan of the BCS which screwed USC enough that year to get them the split….which quite frankly if you are either of those why in the hell would you admit it.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Tom Osbourne is still a tool, he is the original master of whining on TV for pity votes back in 97-98 to get a split.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
But did Frazier have Godzilla Biscuits
/Fredo’d
December 10th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Who did they play? Who didn’t they play???
/can’t remember. Just know if you’re running a triple option to a tune of 50 plus points a game, you’re doing something right…
December 10th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Tebow has 1 “come from behind win” and that’s going up by four (and then adding to the lead) over bama with 13 minutes left in the 4th quarter. When you need the dude, he can’t come through.
Give me Frazier or Young. Those cats were cold as ice.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
But did Frazier have Godzilla Biscuits
exactly. we need more bicuits
December 10th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
no. of shirtless pics in a club surrounded by dudes and covered in sweat:
vince – 1, tommy – 0
/winnar
December 10th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
That’s the team with the crystal trophy, right? The BCS trophy? Kinda looks like a football. Did they award 2 of them?
December 10th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
forgot
/jk
//kinda
///LSU fan
December 10th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Please…Nebraska had a better resume than Michigan and every one knew it. Nebraska hammers Peyton Manning in Orange bowl while MICH struggles with freaking Ryan Leaf and Wazzu. Nebraska played more bowl teams as well.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
If you wanna talk humanitarian stuff, Tebow wins in a landslide. Don’t know if this got national news, but Frasier was the head coach of a small college here in Nebraska and had seperate meetings for white and black players. Like half the players quit the team after two years and he was fired.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Oh, and I don’t think Osborne ever whined to get a title split, but I know like half the players did.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
vince young? really? he really only had 1 awesome year
December 10th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
yes, because if you were in the same position you would be silent. give me a break dude.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Gods…or you could’ve just said “michigan sucks” and we’d all nod spprovingly.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
TBL-False. They won the Rose Bowl 2 years in a row. One for the NC, resulting in Vince’s love for guns and Chicken Wings.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Spencer I hope you get Rock Salt in your dick hole.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Well, I know I am one of the only individuals on this site that saw almost every Tommie Frazier home game, in person, so I might be a little biased but he was an unbelievable talent. I don’t think I have seen a single player that at any given moment could take over a game like Frazier. Tebow may have better stats and has done more circumcisions but my money is on Frazier.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
but it was quite awesome.
listen, im not saying he’s better than tebow or anything because, frankly, that’d be pointless. but, in my opinion, his one year, was better than tebow’s 2007 year, and his performance in the NC game against USC trumps anything tebow has done to date.
id even go as far as to say his games against ohio state and oklahoma state that year, trump anything tebow has done so far as well.
just my opinion tho.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
December 10th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Michigan was #1 going into the game, after destroying the previous #1 and beating a top 10 legit Wash. St team, no matter how much he sucked in NFL, Leaf was a stud college QB.
Also Nebraska illegaling kicked a ball to save their goat against Mizzou…..so don’ talk to me about resumes.
Roles reversed your bitching to high heaven as well.
And you beat Pey Pey in a big game, well holy shit thats never happened in his career…esp until he got to face Sexy Rexy in a Super Bowl.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
/fixed
December 10th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
vick could take over a game like gangbusters as well.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
spencer- Very true.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
I was at that Oklahoma St game. OSU was up by like 24 pts at half on Texas. I was completely sloshed and the feeling at halftime was utter shock, maybe it was the fact i was able to sneak a pint of Capt Mo and a 6 pack up Bud in the game…then 1st play after half, Young Pump fakes 10 yards down the field and runs for 80 yards….it becomes the Pontiac game changing play of the year…..fuck
December 10th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Yes we’ve had this argument before, but it goes:
‘95 Nebraska
‘94 PSU
‘01 Miami
One of the recent USC teams.
I was thinking of Leinart for best of this era, but all that talent around him makes it difficult. It’s way more offensive talent than any QB in history.
December 10th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
If eliminate Leinart for talent around them you would have to say that about a lot of guys
Young had Benson and Roy Williams, and multiple NFL lineman
Frazier had Phillips, Green, multiple NFL lineman
etc
etc
December 10th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Yes we’ve had this argument before, but it goes:
forgot to add: in your opinion
December 10th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
If you think Davidson intentionally kicked that ball you are the dumbest person on the planet. No way in hell he meant to do that. It was a fluke play and also, don’t insult my intelligence and tell me Wazzu was a legit anything…they would have been hammered by a number of teams that year and Michigan struggled to take them down. There should have been a split because the system then was flawed like it is now…but I think had the two teams played I honestly feel NEB would have taken them.
December 10th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Actually…the receiver admitted to trying to kick the ball. And Davison is the one who caught it.
I would agree except Leinart’s was waaaaaaay better.
December 10th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
don’t forget the most ridiculously brazen team-wide steroid epidemic in college sports history.
December 10th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Young had Roy Williams only in his Redshirt Freshman year. Benson played in 2004, but was suspended for some time, and was not part of the 2005 NC team.
December 10th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Wrong season.
December 10th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Correction, it may have been 2003 when Benson was suspended for a B&E charge.
December 10th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
.
December 10th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
‘02 tOSU is inarguably the best team in the land. Evar.
/not a homer’d
December 10th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Nick…the ‘98 team was better.
December 10th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Don’t bring that up. Plus they choked.
/Fuck!
December 10th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
i know man, i know.
December 10th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
The best OSU team I remember (talent wise) was either ‘95 or ‘96 (E. George, T. Glenn. O Pace, et. al.). Too bad Cooper was the coach.
December 10th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
you could say that about the entire decade.
December 10th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Nick the year that Michigan and Neb split was the year that Davidson caught the kicked ball in the endzone at the end of regulation.
December 10th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
don’t forget the most ridiculously brazen team-wide steroid epidemic in college sports history
how come Nebraska fans leave that out?
December 10th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
Because neither they nor anybody else gives a damn.
December 10th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
yea, i don’t give a damn about steroid use in sports…hell, i support its use and think it should be more wide-spread.
hell, id juice for a flag-football league.
December 10th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
hell, id juice for a rec basketball league. then id keep stats and brag online.
/TBL’d
December 10th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
It is funny to me that Nebraska fans(NSR, want to debate College Footballs greatest team with a bunch of juicers.
NEXT!
December 10th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Because the N stands for Nowledge!
I think per capita more Nebraska players in that era beat women than previously thought humanly possible. Althought L. Phillips did provide a good part of that.
Another great thing about Osbourne, such a Saint to give all those young men repeated chances…its a good thing it opened Phillips eyes.
December 10th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Guilty as charged. (the women-beating, not the steroids)
December 10th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
it is real easy when you try to compare Nebraska ‘95 to Miami ‘01.
How many All Americans? how many future NFL players? how many future NFL STARS? Miami was unstoppable in every aspect of the game. The defense only allowed 9.4 points per game, led by ED REED. you think Frazier would out run Ed Reed? sheeeeeettttt. 16 first round picks, yes 16. 23 were drafted.
December 10th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Yippee-freaking-do.
Most of the teams they played turned out to be frauds in the end. In the final 2001 poll, Nebraska finished as the only top 10 team they beat and they were 8th. Every other team they played finished with at least four losses. And the greatest team in college football history shouldn’t need a pick-six to seal a victory against Boston College.
Nebraska beat #2 12-1 Florida, #5 10-2 Colorado, #7 10-2 K St., and #9 10-2 Kansas all by at least 3 touchdowns. And total margin of victory is bunk since Osborne sat his starters as early as the 3rd quarter in most games.
December 10th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
I should also mention, the NFL argument is a fallacy since the offense NU ran disqualified many of their players from playing at the next level.
December 10th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
disqualified? i like that excuse
December 10th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Leinart had superior talent around him, Vince was a running back behind center for the most part, and Tommy Frazier was a sprinter who could flip a ball
Tebow’s a quarterback
December 10th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
Like most Nebraska grads are disqualified from living in the city due to their smell….hah i kid
And really NSR that only applies to QB’s, since all the other positions do the same things and they have had like 1 good WR in their entire history (Fryar).
December 10th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
Like most Nebraska grads are disqualified from living in the city due to their smell….hah i kid
i like your style
December 10th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
I would say QB’s, WR’s, and TE’s (though to a lesser degree). And I’m counting 27 NFL draft picks on the ‘95 team. And their best defensive player on that team wasn’t drafted due, um, off the field issues, Terrell Farley.
December 10th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
not with those ducks he’s slinging.
December 10th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
Tebow = Scot Frost or Jacob Hester (Failed S or Failed 3rd down goaline back)….take your pick
December 10th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
Sweet christ. This is a debate about COLLEGE performance, not how many players you put in the NFL. The fact that Miami put all those players into the NFL is irrelevant when discussing the collegiate merits of each team.
December 10th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
@dwalthi – I agree
December 10th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
95 Nebraska and 01 Miami were just absolutely awesome.
94 Penn State offense might be the best I’ve ever seen. Their D was marginal though. They beat Indiana by 14. They were also up by 35 in the 4th quarter and gave up 3 late TD’s. Not exactly close.
Ohio State’s best TEAM was 1998. The best offense was 1995 with Hoying, George, Dudley, Glenn, et al… The best defense was 2006 with Hawk and company…
December 10th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
Tebow wishes he had half the talent and athleticism of Frazier.
December 10th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
I’d like to throw the ‘01 UW team in the mix. It’s too bad they couldn’t have the match up with Miami that year.
December 10th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Teams with serial rapist tight ends are automatically disqualified.