The Not So Natural?
Baseball, Drugs September 7th. 2007, 10:04am
Interesting 24 hours for the man that has evoked comparisons to the fictional Roy Hobbs: Two homers, seven RBI and a curtain call in Thursday’s win; Friday morning, he’s on blast everywhere for accepting a shipment of illegal performance-enhacing drug HGH in 2004.
Before we castrate the guy, we do need to point out one key sentence in the NY Daily News report: “Ankiel, 28, has not been accused by authorities of wrongdoing, and according to the Signature records obtained by The News, he stopped receiving HGH just before Major League Baseball officially banned it in 2005.€
Could he have chosen an alternate route to receive HGH after 2005? Sure. But it’s also interesting that Ankiel had Tommy John surgery in July of 2003, and received the shipment of HGH in 2004. Why? Because Jason Grimsley initially used HGH to recover from Tommy John surgery (it worked wonders). Grimsley made the unwise decision to keep getting it shipped to his house. We’re assuming many players learned that lesson and had it shipped elsewhere.
What’s the move here? Just avoid the question completely since the shipment came before it was banned? That’s probably what Ankiel should do if he knowingly has been using HGH since 2005. But if the guy really only used it in 2004 to recover from Tommy John, he may want to come clean. They can’t suspend him for using HGH before MLB banned it.
We’ve got no guess here – but we’ll ask this: if you can take something that is going to improve your strength and recovery time from injuries and it’s undetectable on drug tests, would you give it a shot? And considering Ankiel’s Bondsian summer – nine homers in 81 at-bats – do you think he’s still using?
Rick Ankiel received 12-month supply of HGH (NY Daily News)
Ankiel’s feel-good story doesn’t feel right anymore (Yahoo Sports)
68 Responses to “The Not So Natural?”
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September 7th, 2007 at 10:13 am
this is a non-story. HGH does not improve performance. HGH does not induce hypertrophy (muscle building). HGH does decrease the body’s fat stores but HGH does not improve speed, strength, ability, stamina, etc. He took it before it was banned, and as far as we know, isn’t taking it anymore through an Rx. HGH still in his system after 2-3 years? please. this isnt bonds taking cattle steroids to become 300 lbs of lean muscle to hit balls over 500 feet. theres a big difference here.
plus if there’s anything we’ve seen, it’s that the outrage for PHD’s are far more heated when the athlete in question is a jerk. raffy and bonds get admonished while the public has sympathy for giambi. nobody cares that NFL players and coaches and team doctors have been caught riding dirty but its a big deal if a guy took HGH 2-3 years ago when HGH isn’t even that much of a performance enhancer? if he got caught with dianabol or nandrolene that would be one thing, but HGH…please.
September 7th, 2007 at 10:17 am
See TBL, this is the kinda shit I’m talkin’ about. “But if the guy really only used it in 2004 to recover from Tommy John, he may want to come clean.” He MAY want to come clean. Well, looks like his name is shit on already, so what would really be the harm in totally coming clean right from the beginning. You know, show a bit of class and integrity. Even if he wasn’t using it just to recover from TJ Surgery (Oh, btw, recovering more quickly is the definition of performance enhancing), he should come clean regardless, you know, maybe, I dunno, in effort to maybe clear his name? Or are all these guys complacent with becoming total villans now? Or how bout even if his intentions weren’t pure, should he then NOT come clean and just hide from the media like all the other asswipes in the league? You send a mixed message around this one. Ankiel WAS probably the best story in baseball this year, and until he can prove that he only took the HGH for a limited time as perscribed for recovery by a doctor (which is still shady as all hell) or prove that he did in fact stop receiving shipments before it was officially banned, then he cannot been seen positively. This makes me think that he would want to come clean right away regardless instead of being a typical overpaid coward stealing from baseball, the fans, and everyone else.
September 7th, 2007 at 10:18 am
Spencer, you are plain old ignorant.
September 7th, 2007 at 10:19 am
I have to say thats a very good arguement…bottom line even if it did help you out according to this story he stopped getting these shipments before it was offcially banned. I’d love to stay and chat about this but Schrutebag is on my campus today, i have to go heckle him.
September 7th, 2007 at 10:22 am
Dear God! Leitch is on a flippin’ ledge right now and all we can do is argue? *shakes head*
September 7th, 2007 at 10:24 am
He’s a townie.
September 7th, 2007 at 10:29 am
spencer???? I’m not sure where you’re getting your information but I think it’s been well established that HGH does in fact build muscle mass when working out.
I think people overwhelmingly would like to forgive Ankiel, but he HAS to come clean about everything, and do so publicly.
September 7th, 2007 at 10:29 am
Nice argument with your 2nd post there Swandong.
Having some first-hand knowledge of both anabolic steroids and HGH, I can tell you that spencer’s post is pretty accurate. HGH and anabolic steroids definitely are not the same thing or really even closely related when it comes to supposed performance enhancement. HGH alone does very little to build muscle, you’ll find most people interested in adding lean muscle will stack HGH with anabolic steroids. I find some of the media’s claims about anabolic steroids leading directly to increased HR’s to be ridiculous, but to now somehow claim that HGH taken 3 years ago has led Ankiel to become a major league power hitter is utterly insane. This stuff isn’t Popeye spinach, where you take a dose and instantly have Steve Garvey arms.
September 7th, 2007 at 10:32 am
Wasn’t it a couple years ago that EVERYONE was saying that HGH was the real bugaboo, not steroids. Now, HGH is like eating pixie sticks? I honestly don’t have a problem with athletes partcipating in controlled, monitored steroid/HGH programs. But I just find it hilarious that people are tripping over themselves to rationalize Ankiel’s situation.
He hasn’t been officially accused of wrongdoing? Yeah, that always stops the masses from burying athletes. We ALWAYS wait for formal charges to be annouced before we unsheath our daggers. He stopped using before MLB banned HGH? Can’t you say the same for Barry, Sammy, and Mark?
September 7th, 2007 at 10:37 am
Ainkel should just step-up and own it like Giambi did… he’s white and symapthetic already; we’ll forgive him.
Might even name a street after him.
September 7th, 2007 at 10:39 am
On ESPN This morning, PeterGammons waxed poetic about the time-frame and then went on to talk about his personal like for the guy… This has to be joke! How do you go from major League pitcher to best hitter in baseball this side of A-Rod?
September 7th, 2007 at 10:47 am
bibliography:
http://www.eternalhgh.com/hgh/athletes.html
http://www.slate.com/id/2162473/ — i think this is in the deadspin article
September 7th, 2007 at 10:48 am
There is no difference between Bonds allegedly using PEDs and Ankiel allegedly using PEDs, other than the treatment the two are receiving from the media.
As for Ankiel’s performance – his first homer was one he reached out and pretty much one-armed out of the park; if that’s not a sign of being on the juice, nothing Bonds did is, either. He may not be on it right this moment, but obviously he’s stronger than he was as a pitcher, and most hitters. The HGH he took to “recover” from his injuries may be a factor in that new-found strength.
And even if he was taking it to help him as a pitcher, he’s still using PEDs. Ask Clemens and Pettite if taking PEDs might help you as a pitcher.
Personally, I didn’t care that Bonds might have used it, and I don’t care that Clemens might be on it, or David Ortiz, or any other player. At the end of the day you still have to be damn good and damn committed to be a star athlete. You have to be among the top 1% in your field, and PEDs alone won’t get your there. The only thing that bothered me about the Bonds thing is that he was clearly being persecuted by a media that disliked him, and the double-standard is very clear right now in reading some of the early reaction to this story.
September 7th, 2007 at 10:49 am
Incredible.
TBL your double-standard is showing, like it or not. Everything you just said has been said about Bonds. So are you retroactively defending Bonds now? Are you a closet “Bonds supporter” TBL.
I mean, the invocations that it wasn’t illegal when he did it. The fact that he’s not actually under any criminal offense for receiving. The fact that we’d all do it if we had the chance. The fact that players should be able to use it to recover from injuries.
Hmmmm….all of those things were said about Bonds. Hmmmm….was all that hatred for Bonds a lie then?
September 7th, 2007 at 10:55 am
i didn’t know bonds used HGH to recover from tommy john surgery?
September 7th, 2007 at 10:58 am
Oh so since he used it to recover (and to gain more muscle than he started with) its ok.
Alright I got you. Everyone should be able to use HGH to recover for injuries (and somehow make sure they stop right whent he muscle is where it was before they started).
September 7th, 2007 at 11:02 am
A lot of doctors in the house this morning. Nice.
Bonds cannot be linked to Ankiel. Not yet, anyway. Bonds has SWORN FEDERAL TESTIMONY about taking illegal performance-enhancing drugs.
All we have now is one report that Ankiel had it shipped to his home. We need to hear more from Ankiel. Surely, we will.
AP, I’ve got to ask … have you READ this Game of Shadows piece?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/magazine/03/06/growth0313/1.html
From page 13:
Bonds was shown a vial that the government believed had contained the Clear. Bonds insisted it was for flaxseed oil. He said he had ingested the substance by placing a couple of drops under his tongue — the prescribed method for taking the BALCO steroid but hardly the common way to down flaxseed oil.
“And I was like, to me, it didn’t even work,” he told the grand jury. “You know me, I’m 39 years old. I’m dealing with pain. All I want is the pain relief, you know? … I never asked Greg. When he said it was flaxseed oil, I just said, ‘Whatever.’ It was in the ballpark … in front of everybody. I mean, all the reporters, my teammates. I mean, they all saw it. I didn’t hide it … . You know, trainers come up to me and say, ‘Hey, Barry, try this.’”
September 7th, 2007 at 11:14 am
If a person goes to the doctor and the doctor gives them some “medication” to get better faster to get back to work…who wouldn’t take it. Alot of people get on their “high horse” and think that its a privilage to play pro sports which is BS. I wonder how some “regular” people would like to put their bodies through the dedication and hard work that athletes go through, the scrutiny of the local media for having a “off game or year”, and in the case of Mr. Bonds, National Media. You wouldn’t last a year in the Pro’s. Like Chris Rock say……but it’s alright, because its all white!!!!!
September 7th, 2007 at 11:14 am
It’s a non-story because it wasn’t banned by the league at the time he was using it.
That’s the underreported aspect of this whole mess, and why baseball deserves more blame than anything else. They want to make people seem like bad guys for playing on the edge of the rules, only after they benefited from guys smacking home runs like whoa.
September 7th, 2007 at 11:14 am
i love when tbl gets pissed off and sets people straight…that is all
September 7th, 2007 at 11:15 am
Shut up RANT. HGH Speeds up recovery time, and in a sport where they play 162 games over a 9 month schedule, dont you even try to tell me that DRASTICALLY SPEEDING RECOVERY TIME isnt performance enhancing. Think about it buddy. It isnt natural. Its the same at guys popping anphetamines so they arent totally hungover for a game. they would be totally dragging ass cause they were out till 4 in the morning drinking and slutting around, wake up at 9 for a day game? take some speed man, it will bring you back up in a jiffy. ok, so a team play 15 of 20 games or something on the road, guys tend to get tired, so a guy takes hgh so his body isnt as worn down from the grueling schedule. hence is more productive over the course of 162 games. you all trying to somehow justify HGH should just go jump off a bridge cause you’re doing more harm making excuses for this disgraceful, and all too typical activity.
September 7th, 2007 at 11:16 am
Bonds is black. Ankiel is white. Racism is alive and well in the U.S. Glad to see we still have ridiculous double standards and can pick and choose when to be outraged about cheaters.
September 7th, 2007 at 11:16 am
Oh Ok TBL, its just that you’re giving Ankiel the benefit of the doubt that he DIDN’T use steroids. That’s perfectly fine.
But why then, do you say this: “if you can take something that is going to improve your strength and recovery time from injuries and it’s undetectable on drug tests, would you give it a shot?”
That seems to imply something like, “if he did take steroids, can you blame him?” You also said: “That’s probably what Ankiel should do if he knowingly has been using HGH since 2005. But if the guy really only used it in 2004 to recover from Tommy John, he may want to come clean. They can’t suspend him for using HGH before MLB banned it. ”
That seems to be a quote that, assuming that he used it, he should come clean and its ok. They can’t suspend him, and he “really only used it in 2004 to recover from Tommy John” as if, that makes it less wrong.
You also decide to note that Ankiel is not being accused of any wrongdoing, which implies that it makes it more ok no? That statement, to me, seems like something that would deflect criticism, not bring about more (as you did with Bonds).
If you’re giving him the benefit of the doubt (by providing me with more definitive evidence that Bonds did it…..like i already don’t know) it would seem odd the way you wrote this, no?
September 7th, 2007 at 11:19 am
Who is actually surprised at the presense of Racism? We live in the Goddamn most divided country on the face of the fucking planet. Wake the fuck up.
September 7th, 2007 at 11:20 am
This column has absolutely fucking nothing to do with color or race, and it only took you assholes 10 minutes to start talking about it. Look in the mirror and TRY TO STAY ON TOPIC.
September 7th, 2007 at 11:23 am
whoa … nobody’s saying it’s ‘ok’ that Ankiel used them … but in terms of suspending the guy, you can’t, because he HGH wasn’t illegal.
Is what he has done this year tainted? Sure. Let’s at least hear what the guy has to say.
September 7th, 2007 at 11:25 am
Alright TBL, I got it. So this time, when you’re actually supplying rational arguments its cool. But when others did so with Bonds, its called “supporting him.” I used those same argument you used to say why Bonds shouldn’t be crucified for what he did (in addition to the “Everybody’s doing it argument” and for some odd reason you would have none of it.
But now you’re doing it. Hmmm….odd being on the other side of the fence no? This time, I agree with you…I have no problems with athletes using PED’s as I’ve always said. But it seems weird you’re against me when it comes to Bonds and on my side with Ankiel.
I know I’m not the one with the double standard.
September 7th, 2007 at 11:26 am
The Cincinnati Bengals are obviously the St. Louis Cardinals of the NFL. It is entertaining to watch the rationalization for Ankiel. Didn’t Bonds have an injured elbow he had to recover from back in 98 or 99?
September 7th, 2007 at 11:27 am
This year? Nothing. He has been the inspirational story of the year. It’s just too bad that news comes to light that shits all over him, deservedly. It’s common to see athletes disgrace themselves now, there are very few athletes that are worth investing in at all anymore. THAT is the biggest tragedy in all of this.
September 7th, 2007 at 11:29 am
Swandong,
That’s only if you take the attitude that athletes aren’t going to be human. There are very, very few people in this world that are squeaky clean…and with the microscope athletes are under, it gets worst. Change your attitudes about sports and irrelevant stuff like strip clubs and steroids won’t stop your enjoyment.
September 7th, 2007 at 11:30 am
That a guy that EVERYONE truely is pulling for goes out and gets caught with the hand in the cookie jar, its just pathetic what baseball has become. Oh yea, not to mention the bland sort of competitivism. All sports right now actually, just lame soap operas.
TBL. You should do an odds column on the next player to get busted. All you have to do is look at the ‘hot ________________ new guy blowing up in april’ slap some allegations on him, and poof, you have another story for the next month.
September 7th, 2007 at 11:34 am
The studies on HGH are mixed so anyone claiming this is does one thing or another for certain is way off. There is no doubt that it would qualify as a PED. I also think a big reason HGH was not banned prior to 2005 was because it was too hard to test reliably which lead to a bunch of holdup from the union and other parties invovled.
September 7th, 2007 at 11:34 am
Bro, it has nothing to do with being human, it has everything to do with being LIKEABLE. I cannot wholeheartedly like someone i know is not honest. That’s what this is all about anyways. If these guys were making jack shit money and ruining their bodies, no one would care. but they are making bazillions of dollars, off us, by being dishonest.
September 7th, 2007 at 11:35 am
this much is simple.
Fact the substance is HGH.
Fact everytime its brought UP irregardless the circumstance its never seen in a positve light
Fact The Media loves nothing more but throwing whomever used the substance no matter when and for what under the bus.
All Im asking for is conistency here in the Court of Public Opinion. Lets be honest, you remove Ankiel’s name and replace it with a Milton Bradley, or a Dmitri Young there’d be people from all over the place waiting to sink there teeth in. But, B/c Ankiel’s such a great guy, we wanna wait and see..Sounds a little fishy to me.
September 7th, 2007 at 11:36 am
Why do we crucify guys so much. Did he take HGH this year……not to my knowledge. This happened back in 2004. The Minor league system where he has been for the past two years has a stronger testing program than the majors do! This story is bullcorn! Everyone has different levels of Morality! This is what makes our country different. If there was a law in this country 5 years ago that stated that you go 85 miles an hour on the highway, and this year they changed it to 65, does it make you a bad person because you did 85 previous years. No. Chill out people!
September 7th, 2007 at 11:38 am
SM,
They still don’t test for HGH, if you didn’t know. No reason to think everyone isn’t using it now.
Swandong,
Sorry but, dishonesty is a human fault that everyone has. There is not a baseball player in the MLB right now who is honest. Why? Because even if they didn’t take steroids themselves, they had to know that someone in their clubhouse was taking it and didn’t say anything about it. We know that a bunch of the players were takign it, but in terms of honesty, all those that didn’t take it but didn’t talk earlier are just as guilty as those that took it. talk about Stop Snitchin’.
They are making a bazillion dollars off of you because they entertain you, not because you like them as people or they’re honest–you don’t even know them. I don’t make value judgments about character with my athletes because i don’t know them–but maybe thats just me.
September 7th, 2007 at 11:40 am
“Bonds is black. Ankiel is white. Racism is alive and well in the U.S. Glad to see we still have ridiculous double standards and can pick and choose when to be outraged about cheaters.”
Oh get off it! We have completely ostracized McGwire even though there is less evidence agianst him than Bonds. Bonds is getting into the HoF, McGwire isn’t coming close. Gimme a break.
September 7th, 2007 at 11:40 am
I realize this column isn’t about racism, but I just think it is interesting to note how people deal with the cheating revelations of a white athlete as opposed to Bonds. With Ankiel, it is “Wait and see, he should just come clean and we would be ok with it. He didn’t admit to it, etc. etc.” The rationales people provide are in stark contrast with Bonds. I’m not a dipshit and realize cheating occurs in sports, but to arbitrarily choose which method of cheating is worse and then try to justify it seems odd.
September 7th, 2007 at 11:44 am
Exactly realpeeplz,
Imagine if this was TO! Would he get the benfit of the doubt? It goes to show you something I say everytime. Its not the ACT that matters, its the person who committed it. No one cares about steroid usage, they just care Barry Bonds did it. No one cares about dogfighting, they just care Michael Vick did it. No one cares about violence in the media, they just care when there’s a big, angry looking black man rappin it.
September 7th, 2007 at 11:49 am
I’m sorry AP, but I don’t find this entertaining. Thankfully, I haven’t paid for a single game I’ve gone to this year at Wrigley or Comiskey. 10 in total. I really think that the Cubs and Sox are among thou holiest teams as well, but that’s obviously just the HOMER simpson in me. I was plenty entertained when guys like Kirby Pucket could NATURALLY jump 18 feet off the ground to steal homers over the glass in the world series. I was really entertained when Pauley hit a Grand Slam dong in the world series. I think Derek Jeter is probably the best all around player in the past, as long as I’ve been alive, 24 years. When the Homerun was put on a pedastle as the most important thing in the game, quality of play suffered drastically. I could STILL field better than 75% of infielders in the Majors.
And please, do not group me in with the dishonesty on the level that MLB players are dishonest. The question is, can you blame the rest of the players for not being honest and turning in the rest. well, it become a question to the player of do i want to keep playing baseball for a living? or do i wanna tell about whats going on, on off chance it MAY clean up baseball a little, truely SERVING the fans BEST INTEREST, or do i keep my mouth shut, and do what i can to set the best example? Not everyone is driven by greed man. You cant judge the rest of the players because they refuse to turn in the guilty parties. thats a rat. at least in a fraternity of men, its a rat. its not their responsibility anyways. bud seligs ass should be in a sling. this is ALL HIS FAULT. BONDS BREAKING THE RECORDS> SOSA CLEMENS> PETITE> ITS ALL BUDS FAULT. he was the ultimate enabler and now we have nothing with any integrity left. like i said, its just become this sad, morose soap opera that people dont even care to see half the time anymore. add that in with all the backstage deals to keep all the retirees on lockdown as analyists, and commentators despite jack-assed comments and also public humiliation, and you will see that baseball has become a completely insider endeavour. good luck ever getting in for anybody that doesnt know someone that knows someone. its all a big dirty scandle. im calling conspiracy. say what you will, but fucking rick ankiel is dirty, that should tell you someting right there. its fucking sad and im tired of it. i actually hope the cubs blow the division so i can quit watching this disgusting sport and focus on NFL cause we all have known since the 70’s that football is dirty.
September 7th, 2007 at 11:52 am
Personally I don’t think its a big deal just as I don’t think its big deal that Bonds did whatever he did. I don’t see how is he is stealing from fans, most fans don’t care, the attendance numbers prove that. Bonds is one of the biggest road draws in the majors. And people want to say MLB is the biggest villain in this. You have got to be kidding, the media chooses to crucify MLB, nobody in the media cares that their cash cow the NFL probably has a higher percentage of juicers than any other sport. At least 2 NFL team doctors have been linked to federal steroids probes, a position coach and several players. I have yet to hear of an MLB manager or team doctor linked to steroids and yet the media just glosses over it in the NFL. The NFL is the teflon league because the way the media chooses to cover it, they are even tripping over each other to pat Sheriff Goodell on the back for his personal conduct policy yet barely a blurb on the PEDs in the NFL. I would bet my house that in the next 2 years probably sooner someone out there is gonna go san fran chronicle on the NFL and blow this thing wide open and ESPN and everyone else will express shock and outrage.
September 7th, 2007 at 11:53 am
Sorry guys, but YOU HAVE TO EARN THE BENNIFIT OF THE DOUBT.
Bonds was a total asshole and garnered NO RESPECT off the field. Hence no bennefit of the doubt.
Vick flicked off his fans, got caught with pot in the airport, and lied to the commish, hence, no bennifit of the doubt.
You have to actually PROOVE THAT YOU DESERVE TO BE GIVEN THE BENIFIT OF THE DOUBT PEOPLE, ITS A RESPECT THING. athletes that obviously dont respect the sport they are LUCKY ENOUGH TO PLAY IN do not deserve the benefit of the doubt when allegations taht they are further disrespecting the sport that has given everything to them is being tainted.
September 7th, 2007 at 11:54 am
NSR
Bonds is getting into the HOF and McGwire isn’t close? You do realize that McGwire was nowhere near the ballplayer that Bonds is, don’t you?
September 7th, 2007 at 11:56 am
benefit of the doubt = rationalization for inconsistant reaction. Benefit of the doubt is just a tool used for personality whores. If I like you, you get the benefit of the doubt, if I don’t like you, you’re guilty before I even see any evidence.
September 7th, 2007 at 11:57 am
Pwned, most fans dont care cause most fans are ignorant douchebags. Is that what baseball was hoping for? a mass of retards that will come watch whatever the hell they put out for a product? Bud selig said we dont need anymore players for christs sake.
September 7th, 2007 at 11:58 am
Ankiel bought a year’s supply of HGH in 2004. MLB made HGH illegal in 2005. Seems to me those timeframes likely overlap and Ankiel should get disciplined. Whether or not it actually “enhances” is irrelevant for this argument. He had it; it was illegal. And his AAA roommate had steroids shipped to him so maybe Ankiel was on that too. No reason to doubt it.
September 7th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Let’s get all the townfolk together with torches, pitchforks, and shovels!
September 7th, 2007 at 12:02 pm
AP – I’m not for or against Ankiel yet. When the Bonds stuff broke, it was before this blog even existed. It had a few years to fester. More stories and facts came out. Bonds spoke to the FEDS.
We know nothing about Ankiel except he got a shipment. For all we know, more facts could come out today, next week, etc.
This is nowhere near the Bonds situation, I’m surprised people are making the comparison and drawing the racial parallels already. It COULD end up there … but it’s just too early to tell.
September 7th, 2007 at 12:07 pm
Well, so much for the best story in baseball this year. Maybe it will all turn out to be B.S., but these stories usually end up being much closer to the truth than a total fabrication.
If Bonds is a villain for using steroids before they were officially banned by MLB, then Ankiel should be a villain for using HGH before its ban in 2005. Both guys knew what they were doing and why there were doing it, and just because no-balls Selig couldn’t get a drug policy in place until Congress stepped in doesn’t mitigate their guilt.
That’s why I have a clear conscience rooting for the Pirates. Any team that has sucked so badly for so long has to be clean.
September 7th, 2007 at 12:07 pm
“Bonds is getting into the HOF and McGwire isn’t close? You do realize that McGwire was nowhere near the ballplayer that Bonds is, don’t you?”
Doesn’t matter. McGwire has HoF numbers and was a mortla lock for the HoF before the debacle before Congress. There’s one reason why McGwire isn’t getting into the HoF and one reason only. Any writer who says otherwise is a liar.
September 7th, 2007 at 12:08 pm
hahahaha i love that attitude Dirrrrty.
September 7th, 2007 at 12:12 pm
TBL:
I realize that bringing up race is always a touchy subject and perhaps not appropriate when related to this story, but I am just tired of the predominantly WASP media crucifying successful African-American athletes (not saying you are part of that but the media in general). I know that McGwire is basically blacklisted from baseball, but when white names are brought up (Clemens, Pettite, Giambi), both media and fans for some reason seem to save their venom for non-white athletes. While I realize situations and context are different with every case, “consistency” (to borrow my favorite Joe Morgan word) is all I am looking for when examining cheaters in sports.
September 7th, 2007 at 12:16 pm
It’s hard to go along with the race-issue when ONLY two names are brought up, Bonds and Vick. Sheffield admitted to using the cream and clear and nobody cared. Why? Because he owned it!
The Vick story was overblown, I’ll give you that. But everyone compares it to Leonard Little killing a woman and getting off easy. Well, Little is black and still got off easy.
September 7th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
djkief21. shut up. this is america, not eutopia. racism is as american as apple pie. Giambi, clemens, bonds, mcguire. the real problem is why none were instantly banished from baseball forever. a fucking gambling scandle would have been better than this, and its almost sad that pete rose gambled instead of taking PED’s. he would have had a better shot at the damn hall.
September 7th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
Swandong,
I understand you, but I don’t have the historical relativism that you have. I’m a young guy, my first exposure to the game was when my Braves took the ‘96 crown when I was 8, then heartbreak in the ‘97 crown. I don’t have any preconceptions about athletes and how they should live and what they should be. They were on steroids then and they’re on steroids now and they will beon steroids in the future. That doesn’t bother me. It enhances the quality of play. And you can say its unhealthy, but so is running into a brick wall 50 times, 16 times a season.
September 7th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
I am not trying to be in the racism argument but you have to know this is how the country and media works. People don’t want to say that they are racist but there are. Certain sports and entertainment jobs are looked at differently! Pro wrestling links everyone to doing steroids no matter the color of the person. in that profession. Baseball,is a predominately white sport that most black athletes in the sport are looked at as “bad guys” and white athletes are looked at good guys. NFL and NBA are predominately black and are looked at as thugs if they do anything that is not good in America. But you have abuse by white athletes all the time and no one says a word. You don’t know know the athlete so who are we to judge them for what they do. Is an athlete more of a bad person if he beats his wife and drinks too much beer and drives home drunk or because he took HGH….Think about it!!!!!!!
September 7th, 2007 at 12:23 pm
I got you TBL, I’m sure he gave the year’s supply to his mother.
But have you no, unless Ankiel admits to it, no more proof is going to come out. So you can give him the benefit of the doubt if you will, but I distinctly remember Bonds not getting such. And like I said in an earlier comment, your post doesn’t sound like someone who is saying “I’m skeptical if he actually cheated or not.” Some of your quotes sounded like “If he cheated, its ok because he had a surgery, he got them legally, we’d all do it, he was recovering from surgery….”
Those are not the quotes of someone who’s in a “wait and see” approach. This looks like a preemptive strike thats OPPOSITE to all your Bond’s coverage.
But i got you.
September 7th, 2007 at 12:27 pm
It doesn’t enhance shit except my level of dissappointment in the game because teams can’t hit for crap anymore, they all rely on the homer. guys cant play defense anymore cause they all got called up for their bats, cause they were all going deep, a lot. the quality of play has diminished so far that it looks like a .500 team will get into the playoffs for the second? time in history. it isnt your fault you never got to experience ANY clean baseball. I like to think that i got a little, but to say that quality of play was enhanced by this garbage is a complete joke. baseball stories used to be about the good deeds, the heroic comeback, the hot streak, the consecutive scoreless innings, now every story is a goddamn scandal. its no longer enjoyable, its no longer an escape from the real world, the work world. thats what sports are supposed to be anyways, escape for the common folk. now what do we have to escape to? a steaming pile of shit, thats what. if you want beefed up bloodsport, the ufc is perfect, so is football, cause its a culturally accepted practice to beef up however if you are taking the ‘life threatening’ punishment those athletes take. baseball? gimme a fucking break, i use to play until i couldnt see the ball anymore it was so dark, cause i loved it. these guys dont even wanna play with a hangnail.
September 7th, 2007 at 12:36 pm
Yikes Swandong,
Just saying, I hate the UFC and all those fighting ventures–violence isn’t my calling card. However, if you think athletes in the past weren’t the same liars and cheaters athletes are now you’re sorely mistaken. Its HGH now, it used to be amphetamines. Athletes, like all people, ALWAYS CHEAT. Their incentives are even greater therefore you will see more egregious forms of cheating.
People like hearing about scandals so the media will continue to report it. Had we had behemoth sports media and 24 horu networks you would’ve been heaering the same negative stories. And .500 teams make the playoffs because there are more good players and thus more competitive balance (that is, the difference between the best team and the worst is much smaller).
September 7th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
Swan:
I’m not advocation for a utopia where there is no racism (considering were are not that far removed from slavery and the civil rights movement), my point is that why can’t it at least be considered when we talk about the media framing of cheating athletes. It seems that we can’t even have a dialogue about race and how it may effect the way the media covers certain athletes (cheaters in particular), if, as you say “Racism is as American as apple pie.” I agree with the TBL in that it is early with the Ankiel case, but If racism is everywhere, why can’t it be openly discussed with this and other cases?
September 7th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
Ugh, I respectfully dissagree fellas. I’m going to go stick my finger down my throat a purge this discussion from my body, then probably fellate a soddering iron with my eyesockets. I’m really glad NFL is back.
September 7th, 2007 at 3:52 pm
just fyi, troy glaus is also involved in this
http://ap.lancasteronline.com/4/bbo_steroids
September 7th, 2007 at 4:24 pm
Geez, the going for home runs rant was made by Ty Cobb over 80 years ago with the advancement of Babe Ruth. In other words, nothing new.
September 7th, 2007 at 4:56 pm
I’ll kill you like Ty Cobb too smart guy.
September 7th, 2007 at 6:47 pm
I think the difference between Ankiel and barry bonds is this: 1. Barry Bonds is a much more high profile player than Ankiel and owns the most hallowed record in sports. 2. there is overwhelming evidence linking bond’s to PED’s, while Ankiel’s story broke merely hours ago. 3. People hate Barry because of his attitude whereas people are naturally going to like ankiel because of his feel good story.
These are some of the reasons why Barry and Ankiel are thought of differently and I think they have merit. I find it annoying when people take the easy way out and blame the different treatment of the players on their skin color; its not that simple.
If Tony Gwynn was accused of ‘roiding I think he would be treated differently than Barry Bonds, obviously not because of his race but because he was a stand-up guy who always acted classy. It is nearly impossible to judge a person on one fact alone, their past/history often plays a big part in the way people evaluate them. Kind of like if you get arrested for a crime, if you have a prior offences the judge is going to take that into consideration when he hands down your sentence.
Barry Bonds’ prior offences towards the media, his teammates, and even fans are definetely hurting him in the court of public opinion.
September 8th, 2007 at 8:51 am
Swandong, don’t be frustrated at not being smart, do something about it. Knowledge is power, and with a little bit of knowledge you’ll make accurate statements instead of emotional rants. You’re a grown assed man, stop soundling like the newspaper boy, “say it ain’t so Joe”.
September 9th, 2007 at 8:36 pm
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=3009424&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab5pos2
September 10th, 2007 at 1:27 am
So what if Ankiel took HGH…….you dummies are gonna buy his jersey anyways……so shut up.