Oklahoma Loss Helps … (Lowers Head) Ohio State
Uncategorized November 18th. 2007, 10:06am
Can we call what happened yesterday letdown Saturday? First, the games were awful. Ohio State booted Lloyd Carr from Michigan. Oklahoma lost its quarterback, Sam Bradford, to an injury, and then lost at Texas Tech, 34-27. Please do not bring up the Sooners in any National title discussions (especially you, Corso). WVU won at Cincinnati, so the 1-loss Mountaineers are still alive. Missouri and Kansas meet next weekend, and one of them will be eliminated. LSU still has to travel to hosts Arkansas next weekend, and then beat dangerous Georgia or lucky Tennessee in the SEC title game.
Here’s how we see it, in order of likelihood to reach the BCS title game:
LSU – Arkansas is a dangerous game, and Georgia moreso. This is a heart over head decision.
Kansas – Not sure it can beat two Top 15 teams and stay unbeaten, but we’ll be pulling for the Jayhawks.
West Virginia – In really good shape because it has Connecticut and Pittsburgh at home.
Ohio State – Lucky bastards. Sit on the sideline with their weak resume and root for upsets. Sadly, everything could fall into place and OSU could sneak into the Title game.
Arizona State – Another lucky team with no quality wins and a cupcake schedule. If the Sun Devils beat USC, do they have a better argument than Ohio State? Please let those two play in a Bowl game … that isn’t the BCS.
80 Responses to “Oklahoma Loss Helps … (Lowers Head) Ohio State”
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November 18th, 2007 at 10:19 AM
Ohio State is up at the top based solely on reputation. It is one of the reasons why the conferences don’t want a playoff system. The first conference to be exposed in a playoff would be the Big Ten.
As a Pac-10 fan, I gotta say, its not as good as people say it is. Sure, every team is beating the other, but that’s because they’re bad. If you’re looking for the second best conference, its a virtual tie between the Big 12 and the Big East.
November 18th, 2007 at 10:24 AM
I was hoping OU could pull it out last night, but now the only guarantee for the Big 12 in New Orleans is Kansas winning out, which is fine with me. I’m already getting sick to my stomach thinking out the KU-MU game at Arrowhead. KU’s whole football program hinges on this game. If the best KU team in the history of the program loses to Mizzou then the season and the whole football program means nothing. That is what rivalry is all about. BCS, polls, bowls,Gameday, and national accolades don’t mean shit this week. Border War Lives!
November 18th, 2007 at 10:30 AM
MUCK FIZZOU
November 18th, 2007 at 10:49 AM
Worst case scenario:
Arkansas over LSU
Connecticut over WVU
Missouri over Kansas
Oklahoma over Missouri
ASU over USC
That’ll leave us with ASU vs. OSU rematch from a few years ago
November 18th, 2007 at 10:51 AM
Louisiana-Lafayette beats Alabama.
3-7 Washington beats Cal, which is the 7th best team in the Pac-10.
And Cal beat Tennessee, which is 1 win away from the SEC championship game.
Can you say SEC = overrated.
November 18th, 2007 at 10:53 AM
You can’t blame OSU for sitting at home. They had no bye week. Criticize their resume all you want, but they’ve still played 12 games…unlike, say, every other team in front of them.
November 18th, 2007 at 11:07 AM
How many ranked teams has OSU beat?
Why did they order up such a soft out of conf schedule?
November 18th, 2007 at 11:16 AM
Oops! My bad! Louisiana-Monroe actually beat Alabama.
Maybe LSU, the No. 1 team in the nation, could take notes from Louisiana-Monroe on how to dominate the Fighting Sabans.
Man, that SEC is so “tough.”
November 18th, 2007 at 11:18 AM
Same old same old in NCAAF. Everybody worships the big name schools (Oklahoma killed Miami, so they must be a top 5 team) while certain teams (READ: Boise St.last year or Hawaii this year) have no chance at a national championship from day one no matter their accomplishments. What an absolute joke — an absolute refutation of parity as a concept. Would Kansas be in the mix if they didn’t play in the Big 12? The BCS mix, sure, but not the championship mix — too unproven, or too weak a schedule.
And you know what? Maybe that’s true — about Kansas, Hawaii — even about Boise State last year. But we’ll never know until 16th seeded Hawaii matches up with top seeded LSU in the first round of a real playoff. Of course, as we all well know, a 16 team playoff is simply “impossible,” which is why it succeeds every year in 1-AA.
Let’s call out college football for being the Strat-O-Matic sport that it is.
November 18th, 2007 at 11:18 AM
I dont know whats worse. Your rediculous hatred for (t)Ohio St, which at this point is a borderline obsession, or the media kit link where you whore yourself out in the hope of getting bought out by a site with money.
I honestly cant decide. Week in, and week out all I read is your dumbass reasoning about the pathetically overrated SEC conference being the best conference of all time, yet you girls say nothing about how the SEC has the weakest non conference schedule of ANY BCS conference. Florida Atlantic, FIU, Virginia school for the blind & retarded. They all show up on SEC teams Win columns, yet all we hear is how you hate Ohio St and that the Big 11 is terrible, and they dont play anyone. Until you can be objective, and take the SEC baloon knot out of your mouth, you might want to stop putting fingers to keyboards because you sound utterly bitter.
Wait, what am I thinking, that pathetic media kit is much worse. I encourage all to read it. Its pathetically bad, and it wreaks of “buy us out please”
November 18th, 2007 at 11:20 AM
Ohio State has beaten 4 ranked teams.
Their schedule was set years ago, and the game with Washington was scheduled back when Washington was one of the two or three best teams in the PAC-10. The fact that the WASH game wasn’t a big deal is Washington’s fault, not OSUs.
And this is the one year out of 13 (going back to 2005) that OSU does not play a very good to elite team OOC. USC is next for two years, then Miami, Cal, VT, and Oklahoma. This year worked out the way it did. That’s fine.
No, the schedule was not all that tough this year, but they won games. Other teams lost games to both unranked and ranked teams, thus raising OSUs ranking. They made it to the top because people lost and they won. They lost, they fell back, and now the top teams have a chance to earn a spot in the title game. If they lose, which isn’t likely, OSU will be there. If that happens, don’t blame OSU. Blame everyone else.
November 18th, 2007 at 11:29 AM
What if…..
LSU loses a game (Arkansas or SEC Championship)
Mizzou beats KU in a close game
Mizzou beats OU
Mizzou would be #1, and KU only loss would be to the #1 team in the country. Any way we see a rematch and two Big 12 teams in the BCS Championship game??? Or would WEst Virginia’s East Coast bias leap the Jayhawks? The NCAA can’t like 2 Big 12 teams in the National Championship…..
November 18th, 2007 at 11:34 AM
Of the teams that will be ranked in the BCS top 5 come Monday, only LSU played a ranked non-conference opponent and they only played one ranked non-conference opponent (Virginia Tech).
OSU’s non-conference schedule this season was a joke, but is it that much weaker than, say, Kansas or WVU (or Florida, or Oklahoma, or ASU, or USC, or…)?
But this is all beside the point. I’m not here to defend OSU’s resume. They played no one out of conference and they played in an unusually weak Big Ten.
I’m only saying that you can’t fault them for not playing the last two weeks of the season. They’ve played twelve games, twelve games consecutively, which is harder than taking a week off in the middle of the season (all things being equal).
November 18th, 2007 at 11:39 AM
So…
kU has beaten no one, no one, NO ONE. And they’ve also beaten every team Mizzou has beaten by less than Mizzou has. Mizzou’s beaten all their common opponents by two scores. Kansas escaped Colorado and aTm by the skin of their chiny chin chins.
kU’s non-con was a complete and utter joke.
Mizzou beat Illinois, who you may remember, beat that one team that had a little “#1″ by it a few weeks ago.
Mizzou’s only loss was to Oklahoma, in Norman, where the Sooners are damn near unbeatable. Their only losses are both on the road. Mizzou was also leading in the 3rd quarter. They beat themselves, and have improved since that point.
Kansas is that team that looks good until it is found out, then everyone feels dumb for getting behind this big, fat, paper sack of shit.
Jump on the Missouri Bandwagon. We have the Freshman All-Time All-Purpose Yardage leader, two NFL caliber tight ends, a defense that is considerably better than the numbers show (have I mentioned that lost in the Kansas smackdown of Nebraska, where they only won by two more than Mizzou did, is that Kansas gave up 20+ points to a horrible Nebraska offense, while Missouri gave up…6), and oh, yeah, the rightful Heisman winner in Chase Daniel.
Join the good guys! You’ll feel much smarter after Saturday.
November 18th, 2007 at 11:39 AM
Oh great, we’ve upset Ohio State fans. I’m sorry you can’t accept reality. It must be hard for you to comprehend that your team isn’t as good as you think it is.
I’ll give you that the Washington game was scheduled when they were good, but come on man. Youngstown State? Akron? Kent State? That’s a weak out of conference schedule that’s played in-state. People want to give LSU crap for not going outside Louisiana (and the criticism is warranted), the same can be said for Ohio State this year.
As for TomSellecksMoustache, it sounds like you’ve had a bad experience here. I’m sorry. To make it up to you I have read TBL’s media kit, and you’re right, it does “wreak.”
November 18th, 2007 at 11:58 AM
With a 150 million dollar athletic budget and a education only rivaled by the University of Phoenix, one of many Ohio state universities should be playing for the national championship every year and in every sport. Anything else should make Buckeyes hang their heads in shame.
November 18th, 2007 at 12:01 PM
To Imahitter21: No, there wouldn’t be a rematch probably for the same reason there wasn’t one last year between OSU and Michigan. The game was already played, make Mizzou play someone else.
To TomSellecksMoustache: Wow. Your points would be more meaningful if you could properly use the English language/spell.
Finally, as an OSU fan, I really would rather not have us in the Championship game. Here’s why: I don’t think OSU would beat an SEC team this year. Also, I think OSU can take whomever comes out of the Pac 10. So, instead of ending the season on a traumatic 41-14 note, I can have a happy 28-20 win in the Rose Bowl to tie me over until next year.
November 18th, 2007 at 12:08 PM
“Letdown Saturday” are you kidding me?? Where’s the props for the 10,000 men of Harvard, heading to the home of the previously undefeated Yale and STOMPING on them and there previously 170 ypg running back Mike McLeod (he had like 50), 37-6 to win the Ivy Title!
Ivy League football…FEEL THE EXCITEMENT.
November 18th, 2007 at 12:10 PM
Listen, as an tOSU fan and alum (but not crazy fanboi-fan. Normal rational level headed fan) I can admit that OSU played a pretty weak schedule this season, and that they may luck themselves into the title game.
But seriously, why all the rage directed squarely at the Buckeyes. Of the teams TBL’s listed only LSU can say they played a decently tough schedule. Kansas, WVU and AZ St. all have just as many cupcakes on their sched as tOSU. And Ohio State does Schedule good teams. If you want to rail about weak schedules that’s fine, but Kansas and AZ St should be in the discussion also. (By the Way if you’re rooting for LSU based on their schedule, then you need to root for Mizzou too right? They have played a pretty tough schedule too.)
November 18th, 2007 at 12:14 PM
Not really jibble, the only ranked team Mizzou has played this year, Oklahoma, was a loss.
November 18th, 2007 at 12:25 PM
Also, you can’t always schedule hard out of confrence opponents because neither team wants to deal with the possibility of their season being over in week 2. Also, the next 2 years here have OSU playing USC. The two years before that had OSU playing Texas. This season is sandwiched between two really big home and home series. Does that make this season schedule stronger? No, but it’s an explanation as to why it happened.
And next year, we’re going to have people talking about how USC isn’t that great of an out of conference game because the team isn’t as good as it has been. Presuming OSU wins the game of course. If USC wins, the argument will go back the other way that OSU isn’t that good. However, the game got scheduled when both teams were consistently and indisputably in the top 10 programs each year.
Also, the only way any schedule is going to live up to the SEC’s expectations is to have teams schedule SEC teams as their out of conference games. So, why don’t the Florida, LSU, et al. step up and schedule OSU, Michigan, etc. in the coming years. That way, no one can complain about the ease of schedule. They can point to OSU losing to (or beating) an SEC team as proof of the conference’s superiority.
November 18th, 2007 at 12:43 PM
The updated Saragin Rankings:
1. Kansas
2. LSU
3. WVU
4. OSU
…
8. Oklahoma
9. Missouri
November 18th, 2007 at 12:43 PM
@AzHawk97:
The guy whose team played the softest non-conference schedule in Big 12 is calling out the team that played Illinois and played on the road in what has apparently become god’s conference on this board? COME ON!
November 18th, 2007 at 12:45 PM
When have I said anything relating to how good OSU is? I will now. OSU is a good team, not a great one. I don’t think they’re the best team in the country. OTOH, how good is everyone else? Only LSU stands out in my mind. Everyone else is in a jumbled mess of “pretty good”. The simple truth is that OSU got to #1 by default and couldn’t keep their spot. That’s okay.
I understand the point about the rest of the OOC, but who have other teams played? LSU beat VT and that’s why they’re a true #1. Who has Kansas played? Missouri beat Illinois, so I guess they have the second best OOC win. WVU played no one. ASU played no one.
The truth is, everyone plays at least 3 gimmes in the OOC. OSU thought they were playing someone tough in Washington, but things turned out differently than they thought. Sure it hurts them, as it should, but to blame them and say they don’t schedule to leave Ohio is completely false.
November 18th, 2007 at 12:45 PM
TSM et al: you automatically lose any argument in which you refer to Ohio State as tOSU or any variation that puts the in front of Ohio State.
The reason everyone is giving OSU shit this year is because they crapped the bed so badly last year. That plus the Big 10 being absolutely terrible this year (yea! for 2 losses to DIAA teams) makes OSU playing for the national championship a shitty outcomes for 99% of college football fans.
November 18th, 2007 at 12:46 PM
The reason why SEC teams, and most other teams in dominant conferences, don’t schedule tough out of conference games, is the same reason there won’t be a playoff. These entrenched powers don’t want to lose their status as the preeminent schools in the nation. Once that happens, they lose ‘credibility,’ and then they lose recruits. It is not an accident that the Pac-10 and the Big Ten are the most vocal in not allowing a playoff format — they’d have the most to lose. These weak out of conference games are just a way for the elite to make it appear as if they are strong. If the mirage is removed, then we can see them for what they really are.
November 18th, 2007 at 12:47 PM
oh, forgot to add, Duke’s only win came on the road at a bowl eligible Big 10 team.
November 18th, 2007 at 1:29 PM
Wow. Some serious anger. The ‘but the schedule was set in advance!’ logic is garbage … uh, you’re always in contention, you always get top recruits, and there’s no Big 10 championship … so why not schedule real out of conference opponents?
Youngstown State, Akron, Washington and Kent State.
I never said Kansas or Missouri deserve it more than OSU based on their resume. But I’m certainly rooting for either of those to make the National title game.
November 18th, 2007 at 1:43 PM
QSCB – I got caught up the spirit of the week. Sorry.
November 18th, 2007 at 1:44 PM
Are you paying attention? Seriously. You’re better than this, TBL. The Washington game was scheduled back around 2000 or so, when Washington was really good. Played them at home in 2003, and on the road this year.
Ohio State is scheduling in advance as strong OOC as anyone in the country. Every top team schedules 3 weak OOC opponents, and most schedule one good team. OSU tries to schedule one team at the top of another BCS conference. Texas, USC, VT, Oklahoma…How many other teams do that consistently over a soan of a decade? Seriously. How many?
You’re looking in hindsight. Look at when the game was scheduled. Sure, things turned out differently than we hoped with Washington, but you’re now saying OSU scheduling them is weak. Washington was a “real OOC opponent” when the game was scheduled. They tried. It didn’t work out, and you blame Ohio State. Amazing logic there. Go look at everyone else’s OOC schedules for the next 5 years. They’re filled. Everyone schedules well in advance.
November 18th, 2007 at 1:47 PM
Being a Husker fan, you don’t want to send a sub par team to the title game as we did in 01 where we should never have been and Miami showed us why. I’ll give OSU credit, they beat all but the one team on their schedule and you can’t play someone that is not on your schedule. I truly believe we are giving the SEC more credit than it deserves. LSU is a good team but there are no others in there worthy of a title shot. The Big 12 does have some good teams this year and should get one of them in the title game. What I don’t want to see is LSU lose. If LSU loses, then the BCS Title Game loses. They are the best team but its hard to say who is the second best team. IMHO, I think it is USC. Please don’t crucify me for that. I just think they have the most talented team with the best in game coach in college.
November 18th, 2007 at 1:57 PM
Oh, and I read the Media Kit. It did “wreak.” Am I the only idiot on here with a high school education only. It said 1% of the readers have a high school education and 84% have a college degree. I am a frickin retard. Maybe I’ll sign up for some Ohio university online course for catching child molesters so I can raise the bar to 85%.
November 18th, 2007 at 2:17 PM
Look, these are the facts. There are eight teams left with one or no losses. Here is where those teams rank in schedule strength:
Louisiana State: 14
Ohio State: 41
Arizona State: 47
West Virginia: 53
Missouri: 54
Kansas: 99
Boise State: 118
Hawai’i: 120
LSU is, and should be, a lock if it wins out. If ASU beats USC (and finishes it off against Arizona), it will probably jump OSU for the second-best schedule among the contenders, but it will be close. WVU also has a chance to jump ASU and/or OSU by beating UConn (and Pitt). Missouri will probably jump everyone but LSU after it plays KU and OU or UT.
There are only two teams among the ten with the toughest schedules that have winning records: #1 Florida (8-3) and #4 Oregon (8-2). The reality is that OSU and ASU are proper contenders for the championship game right now, unless you want to start including 2-loss teams.
November 18th, 2007 at 2:22 PM
LSU is NOT travelling to Arkansas. The Razorbacks are coming to Death Valley. How many times must it be said?
November 18th, 2007 at 2:36 PM
I stand corrected. It’s Oklahoma that never wins the games late in the season that they should win. Fucking Stoops.
November 18th, 2007 at 2:58 PM
What does it matter if the schedule was created in 1995 or 2000? The bottom line is that OSU had four out of conference games, and played just one against a ‘high major.’ That was Washington, on the road.
I don’t see why this upsets OSU fans. Florida played three weak OOC games. LSU played three cupcakes. OSU isn’t the only one.
Teams i root for change by the season – i like quality offensive football (LSU, WVU and Florida this year), and i root for storylines (Kansas this year). I think OSU lacks in both of those and perhaps last year’s title game left a sour taste in my mouth. I’m just bored with Ohio State football. Please dont take it personally.
November 18th, 2007 at 3:21 PM
When were the Youngstown State, Akron, and Kent State games scheduled? I don’t remember them being that good.
November 18th, 2007 at 3:24 PM
Selleck – Sorry you’re unhappy with the media kit. It’s to help folks out who drop by here the first time and are befuddled as to what the heck we’re doing. It is also to help advertisers who sometimes ask for that information. It’s been up for a few months now.
November 18th, 2007 at 3:31 PM
With the addition of the 12th game, all big-time BCS schools are going to or at least should schedule one big non-conference game. OSU vs. Texas comes to mind. My Auburn team has played K-State, Wash. St., and is picking up West Virgina next year and then Clemson. The other non-conference games (with the exception of AU vs. USF this year) are going to be against cupcakes, and teams are going to rely on their conference to make up the difference in strength of schedule. So technically OSU should thank the terrible Big 10 and the fact they don’t have a Champ. game for their terrible schedule…and not the Athletic Director who schedules easy home games so the program/University/town/etc. can make millions of dollars.
And I love how SEC haters use the Tenn/Cal game as an indictment on the entire conference. If those two teams played right now in Knoxville, do you really think Cal would win? Or win handily? Oregon (with Dixon), OSU, Missouri (NOT Kansas) could beat any given SEC team on any given day, but week in-week out the SEC is still the strongest conference. And just wait til next year when Florida, Auburn, LSU and Georgia all have top-10 schedules and are all in the top-10.
November 18th, 2007 at 3:31 PM
Wait TBL, you slurp the SEC so much, why wouldnt you want to see LSU play OSU?
November 18th, 2007 at 3:41 PM
And what’s with dogging on TBL so much about the SEC. He has exactly one team from the conference right now as a legit contender for the BCS, even though if he was really wearing SEC goggles (like me) he’d be making much bolder statements, e.g. the way Georgia is playing right now they could beat anybody in the country.
And, like 95% of the rest of the country outside of Ohio, TBL is likely still sick of OSU and their Troy Smith jersey wearing fans and the beatdown they took last year after being crowned world beaters by the “experts.”
November 18th, 2007 at 3:48 PM
The issue is when the non-conference schedule is used to prop up an argument against one team while other teams get a pass. The quality of a team is largely independent of the schedule it plays. The Big Ten had a down year and so I agree that a team like Kansas (or Missouri or LSU or WVU) is more deserving than OSU to play in the BCS Championship Game. But there is a difference between ‘more deserving’ and ‘better team’. The BCS forces us to use the former as a proxy for the later, which is maddening.
I’ve watched LSU pull three victories out of its ass. I’m far from convinced that they’re the best team in the country, but they do have one of the most impressive resumes and so deserve to play in the BCS Championship Game. If WVU finishes with one loss does that mean they’re a worse team than a one loss Missouri? Of course not. But if Missouri wins the Big 12 I think they’re more deserving than WVU of a spot in the BCS — and they will be more deserving for factors largely out of their control (the relative quality of the Big 12 vs the Big East).
This is why the BCS is so unfulfilling. In years where there are two undisputed teams that deserve to play for the title the BCS is redundant. In years where there are a slew of teams that can lay claim to playing for the title it’s a poor substitute for a system that would actually determine which team is better instead of which team is more deserving (like a playoff).
The fans want to know which team is best. The BCS does little to ensure this happens even though that is its purported aim. The BCS sucks.
November 18th, 2007 at 3:55 PM
@rittyrich:
Just a quick question, were you one of the experts that had OSU getting trounced versus Miami in the Fiesta Bowl?
Shit happens in sample sizes of 1.
Go tOSU.
November 18th, 2007 at 4:06 PM
Umm, redundant? How about, vital…you know, because without the BCS, those two teams would in all likelyhood never meet to decide who’s better. A playoff will never happen, so quit whining about it and be thankful that the BCS usurped the traditional bowl-conference alliances.
November 18th, 2007 at 4:13 PM
I have no problem with people saying “I don’t like OSU because I’m sick of them.” That’s a valid argument and like every true American I root against the Cowboys, Yankees, Patriots, Colts, Red Sox, Spurs etc. It’s just weird to hear people rationalize it with stuff like “Their schedule is weak, they schedule cupcakes.”
Just say “They have been in BCS games 4 of the last 5 years and frankly I’m sick of them. They play boring football, and their fans are a tad obnoxious. They made it to the title game last season and got blown out, and I’m afraid it will happen again” I think I can handle a statement like that a lot better than a flimsy “they haven’t played anyone good” argument.
November 18th, 2007 at 4:14 PM
PG 13 signs is NO. 1 at ESPN college Gameday:
http://footballjesus.wordpress.com/2007/11/18/best-signs-at-espn-college-gameday-ann-arbor/
November 18th, 2007 at 4:16 PM
@ tallguy
I’m drawing a distinction between how the BCS determines who plays in each bowl and the presence of a national championship game in general, which is something that could exist without the BCS. It didn’t take a complicated formula to tell us in 2005 that USC and Texas should play for the title. In this regard the BCS — the BCS formula — is redundant. It confirmed what everyone already knew. In times when things are less clear it does an inferior job than other systems for determining which team is the best. I doubt anyone would dispute this claim.
November 18th, 2007 at 4:23 PM
I didn’t post this earlier, because I thought fans like Longliveriverfront understood.
Akron? In Ohio. Youngstown State? In Ohio. Kent State? In Ohio.
From LSU’s schedule, Tulane’s in Louisiana, as is Lousiana Tech (duh). Plus they played VT and Middle Tennessee at home.
LSU and Ohio State have weak non-conference schedules. I understand Ohio State can’t help that the game at Washington is considered weak. But please Ohio State fans, remember where Akron, Kent State, and Youngstown State are from before you get all pissy (then people might take you — just not your team — seriously).
November 18th, 2007 at 4:25 PM
LSU has to pull wins out of its ass because it has a league full of good teams. Just an opinion. But yes, you are right – without a tournament, these subjective arguments will continue.
November 18th, 2007 at 5:08 PM
@nick papgeorgio
Quite simply, no, I wasn’t. I actually wanted OSU to win that game, but still thought Miami would win (not trounce them) and also thought Miami got screwed. You’re right, shit happens in sample sizes of one.
I try not to think one team is going to easily beat another in a game of that caliber…unless LSU ends up playing Kansas.
November 18th, 2007 at 5:16 PM
if the can’t spell w/o OSU sign isn’t the best sign at the end of the year, I won’t read the #1 in fear of spilling my bowels on the floor from laughing.
November 18th, 2007 at 5:51 PM
They’ve been doing that since Tressel took over. He’s rather play MAC patsies than San Jose State. MAC teams are actually stronger.
I’ll dumb this down to your level. Every top team plays 3 patsies. Where they come from does not matter.
You said OSU needs to leave Ohio in the OOC. They do. In fact, they’re in year 2 of a 3 year stretch of playing another BCS team on the road OOC. Last year was Texas, this year was Washington, next year is USC. How many other teams do that?
I’ll say it again, I know Ohio State has a weak schedule. It should be held against them, and it’s reflected in the computer rankings. I’m okay with it. I’m not ok with the logic that OSU doesn’t play anyone OOC. We’re not coached by Jim Boeheim.
November 18th, 2007 at 6:16 PM
Is there any way the commenters can storm the e-bastille and just take over this site completely? TBL is in the bottom third of people who actually make an effort. Take some randomly concocted pre-season theories and just ride them week-in, week-out, no matter what happens, making sure to restate everything ad nauseum (which conferences do you like and dislike again? I can’t remember), then go “edgy” every once in a while by saying something completely asinine with absolutely no reason to back it up. Maybe this week: Kansas #1, Hawaii #2. I mean, come on, they’re undefeated!
How is this even remotely better than all of the stuff I’m always seeing lambasted around here (like the ESPN talking heads)? Is it the constant factual inaccuracies and complete lack of depth?
That said, if the real goal is to be poached by one of the biggies, it would seem that things are well on their way
November 18th, 2007 at 6:26 PM
Longliveriverfront -
Good! Since we’ve been in agreement, yet arguing all along, maybe we should find something we don’t agree on and argue about that.
November 18th, 2007 at 6:46 PM
Matt C –
All we’re doing is creating discussion. ‘This is what we think. What do you think?’ That kind of stuff. College football might be the most polarizing sport because
A) it’s all subjective
B) no postseason tournament
Who is to say the jokers OSU played are any tougher than the ones Florida played? Or that USC played? Do people really think the Pac 10 > SEC because Cal destroyed Tennessee in September?
Opinions change week-to-week because so many damn teams are getting upset. South Florida looked awesome in beating WVU … weeks later, they’re blasted in Connecticut. Oklahoma beats a few teams by 40, everyone is on the Sooners’ jock, and then they lose to an ordinary Colorado team. Obviously, Oklahoma is a big fat fraud. Then, everyone else loses, and Oklahoma only has one-loss, and everyone writes them into the title game … until Texas Tech beats Oklahoma.
It’s difficult to find consistency when so many teams are inconsistent.
November 18th, 2007 at 6:58 PM
Funny you should say that, because most people think the SEC is better than other leagues (not just the Big Ten) because Florida destroyed OSU last year. At least Cal/Tenn was this year.
Or my personal favorite SEC excuse “The bottom teams are good enough to beat the top teams on any given day.” I love to watch SEC homers dance in circles with that logic.
Not saying you do either one, TBL. Just saying it’s done. A lot.
November 18th, 2007 at 7:05 PM
TBL,
You’ve gotta be better than this. Mizzou is as much in the BCS title game mix as every team listed. If they win out, they WILL get a title shot (and these Tigers might be the last team LSU wants to face).
Mizzou has the best loss of any one-loss team (to no. 8 Oklahoma), one of the best wins (over Illinois, which upended Ohio State) and wins over formerly ranked teams Nebraska and Texas Tech. Also take into account wins over teams that have been ranked at some point or another (T-Tech, Neb, Illinois, K-State, Texas A&M and Colorado). Don’t leave out an impressive win at Ole Miss (SEC).
More importantly, almost every win has been comfortable, by at least two scores. The only close one was a 40-34 win over Illinois.
No other team in the nation can say that. No other team has scored at least 31 points in every game (at least 40 in all of its wins).
Aside from LSU, show me a better one loss team/resume. PLEASE. And it only gets better this weekend on a national stage against Kansas. Just watch.
November 18th, 2007 at 7:51 PM
If you win your conference, you should get a shot at the title. That’s basically how the voters have voted since the debacle that was the Cornhuskers getting into the Rose Bowl a few years ago against Miami even though they didn’t win the Big 12. If either Kansas or Mizzou wins the Big 12 with a perfect record, they’re going to get the nod over OSU for the fact that OSU slipped up against Illinois and beat up on a flawed Michigan team to get to the Big 10. Is it fair since all three have played weak OOC games? Yes. Does it matter come this time of the year? No.
Going undefeated in conference > winning a Big OOC game early in the season
As much as you want to rag on LSU, they did go 3-1 in a four game stretch against SEC opponents who were all ranked in the top 20 when they faced them. They weren’t pretty wins but they were wins nonetheless in the “toughest conference in the land” that can be debated in and of it self till the day we die. They’re going to get in if they beat Ark and win SEC championship.
If for some reason that a two loss Oklahoma rebounds and wins the Big 12, you could have a debate amongst all the one loss teams. But I think either Kansas or Mizzou (which can outscore them on a neutral field) can spread Oklahoma out and win the game thus making any 1-loss argument moot.
Though, we all know sure certainties are not guarantees this season.
November 18th, 2007 at 7:53 PM
As a college football fan if Ohio State makes the title game, I won’t watch. At all. Its a complete sham that a team that will have beaten exactly zero teams ranked in the Dec 1st top 25 would be in the title game. I’m sorry, that is ridiculous. I know a lot of it is not their fault but if Boise and Hawaii get penalized for that then Ohio State should also. If Kansas/Mizzou play in the title game at least they will have beaten a top 25 team, same goes for the other schools.
And there are a lot of other people that feel the same which is why if ASU wins out, there is no doubt they will hop Ohio state. Mark it down.
November 18th, 2007 at 8:12 PM
@unreliable
I’m having a tough time following your argument since Missouri lost to Oklahoma. Mizzou is not undefeated in the Big 12. The only team in a BCS conference that can still go undefeated in the conference is Kansas. Outside of Kansas there are only one-loss teams. There will be likely three to four one-loss BCS conference champions (LSU, OSU, WVU, ASU). No one-loss argument will be rendered moot by anything that happens in the Big 12. And there is still a chance that the Big 12 will add two additional teams to the one-loss clusterfuck (Mizzou over Kansas; OK over Mizzou).
November 18th, 2007 at 8:13 PM
I’m lazy, so this point could have been made alreay (if it is my bad). But how can TBL ride the Jayhawks who haven’t had the toughest of schedules and slam the Devils? Both have had cupcake schedules up to this point. Moving forward do the Hawks have a tougher schedule? Probably. But USC is still a very good team. I like the Hawks, I just don’t understand the disconnect. Why the hatered towards the Devils?
November 18th, 2007 at 8:21 PM
OSU will have beaten two teams ranked in the AP top 25 come December 1st: Illinois and Wisconsin. Of course, they will have beaten three teams who were ranked at the time they played (Penn State, Wisconsin, Michigan). I don’t know which is more important, but I’m partial to looking at the rankings of the teams when they played, not where the finish (e.g. beating Oregon three weeks ago is more impressive than beating them next week).
When did the Top 25 become some holy demarcation line? Are people really too lazy to think that a team just outside of the Top 25 is no better or worse than a team like Duke? “They’re both unranked, ergo they’re both identical.” The Big Ten is weak this year, but there is still a gap between a Big Ten schedule and Hawaii’s schedule.
In closing, I’m holding out hope for LSU v WVU in the BCS Championship Game.
November 18th, 2007 at 8:28 PM
Ohio State LOST to Illinois.
Welcome back from Mars.
November 18th, 2007 at 8:49 PM
Ha! Yes indeed. If willing made it so….
Correction: OSU will have beaten one ranked team come Dec 1 and three teams that were ranked during at they time they played. I still think the rankings of the teams at the time they played is more important. A team shouldn’t be penalized for beating their opponent, which is what happens if you only look at where teams finish.
November 18th, 2007 at 9:00 PM
ASU – I’ve never really talked about Kansas, other than to say I’m pulling for the Jayhawks. Fun story. They’ve never been this good in my lifetime. Might not be this good ever again.
Do they deserve to be here over anyone? ‘Course not. They’ve beaten one ranked team. Their OOC sked featured four jokers. Hardly mid-majors. Didn’t have to play Texas. Or Oklahoma.
Just a guess, but outside of Ohio and Kansas, if you took a random poll of 1000 people about who you’d rather see in the National Championship, I’d guess 70 percent or so would pick Kansas. Just a guess.
November 18th, 2007 at 9:08 PM
Everyone should want to see someone other than OSU. There’s no story there, no intrigue. If I had no rooting interest I wouldn’t want to see them either. I’m not sure how many people would be up for Kansas. This might all change after next Saturday, though. National TV has a way of doing that. Right now Kansas is a SportsCenter highlight, a SI feature story, and a fat coach who’s a goldmine for bloggers.
November 18th, 2007 at 9:17 PM
Like I said before, I am pulling for the Jayhawks. Do I think they can do it? Probably not. They haven’t become close to being tested. Who should be in the BCS Championship game? The SEC conference champion without a doubt and maybe WV?
I was just curious why the venom gets spat at the Devils. I know the PAC is down this year compared to other years, you could make an argument that it is always down considering the number of bottom feeders. Please, do not give me that lame argument about the number of teams bowl eligible in a conference explains how “tough†it is. Teams typically place three cupcake games a year on their schedule, sometimes four. So your team has to beat three teams in your conference to become bowl eligible. That’s REAL tough considering there are typically two to three down programs a year per conference and the luck factor.
Listen, I know I am homer, but hear me out for one second.
November 18th, 2007 at 9:18 PM
I sort of agree but some teams are overhyped early in the season. Purdue was being pushed as a much better team than they actually were. Don’t know what they were ranked when they were beaten by OSU but they were up there and they didn’t belong. The high powered offene was only high powered against Notre Dame and teams of the such.
Depends on injuries. People keep making some god awful point about the number 7 Pac 10 team beating Tennessee. Is this is the same Cal team that was up number two and then had a swoon started by some horrid decision making by a back-up QB? No Cal fan is going to agree they are the seventh best team in the Pac 10.
And if you think having your 7th best team beat the 4th or 5th best SEC team is some big accomplishment, take a look at which leagues 7th place team gave the number one team its only loss. If we are handing out accolades for impressive wins by 7th place teams from good conferences lets be fair and credit the team that has the best win of any team, from any conference, regardless of record, in this country. And that is the University of Kentucky, an SEC team (sticking my tongue out).
You want to credit Cal for beating Tenn? Go for it, just be accurate. Its an OK win, AT home at a time when Cal was a better football team. You dopes sound like Tennessee was some 78 point favorite and you shocked the world. Congrats, you beat Tennessee. Woopty damned doo. You’ve also lost 5 times to some pretty bad teams. Congrats on that as well. Power to the Pac 10 who play by the rule that if you beat one decent OOC school you rock and rule the world. Fuck the rest of the season. The hell with the body of work, we beat the Vols.
Go Bears.
November 18th, 2007 at 9:20 PM
The first part of my last post was directed at the guy who just got back from Mars.
November 18th, 2007 at 9:24 PM
If Florida had a month to prepare for any of these one loss teams they would kick them all the way back to Columbus. Three losses and all.
November 18th, 2007 at 9:26 PM
@Dornoch
Yup. Early rankings are usually a joke because they’re based on preseason rankings, which are the biggest joke of all. Look at Wisconsin and Michigan this season…and Notre Dame pretty much every season since 1997.
November 18th, 2007 at 10:24 PM
And that is exactly why you shouldn’t look at where a team was ranked when you played them. You should look at where the team is ranked now. The latest rankings incorporate more information about the team and are more likely to reflect the team’s strength accurately. USC beat a ranked team when it beat Nebraska, but it turns out that Nebraska was overrated. USC shouldn’t get extra credit for that win.
Speaking of USC, I want to reiterate one more time that not EVERY team plays 3 patsies a year. Here are USC’s non-conference games, including next year:
2008: at Virginia, Ohio State, Notre Dame
2007: Idaho*, at Nebraska, at Notre Dame
2006: at Arkansas, Nebraska, Notre Dame
2005: at Hawai’i, Arkansas, at Notre Dame, Fresno State
2004: at Virginia Tech**, Colorado State, at BYU, Notre Dame
2003: at Auburn, BYU, Hawai’i, at Notre Dame
2002: Auburn, at Colorado, at Kansas State, Notre Dame
* scheduled as a favor to Nick Holt, who left USC to become head coach at Idaho
** played in Maryland
There are only 6 non-BCS opponents in 6 years, and only two are “patsies”: Idaho and Colorado State. Next time, let’s be sure to say that everybody EXCEPT USC schedules three patsies a year. Note also how often USC goes on the road to play these teams.
And, yes, I know Notre Dame is awful this year, but that’s an aberration.
November 18th, 2007 at 10:51 PM
I agree, look where teams are NOW. But there are cases where you can look at where they were when, due to injuries. What happens if Oregon loses the next two without Dix and they fall to 23rd in the country? Cal for instance deserves credit for beating a better team than number 23.
Go Bears.
November 18th, 2007 at 11:37 PM
It’s a careful balance between the then and now. The Dixon example is spot on. Oregon next week is not the same as the Oregon team of a month ago. It’s also possible for teams to simply improve as the season wears on. The one issue I have with looking at rankings after the fact is that it punishes the winning team for beating its opponent. If LSU is the #1 team in the country and beats a #7 ranked Florida at home on a late drive, then LSU remains #1 while Florida falls to #13, which reflects worse on LSU than looking at the ranking of when the played. It’s the same Florida team both weeks. They only reason they dropped is because they lost to a great team. Meanwhile OSU beats Northwestern and is bumped up because they won.
This is why arguments based solely on the # of ranked opponents in the AP Top 25 on Dec 1st are feeble. For ten weeks Oregon was a top five team. On December 1st they may well be outside of the top 15.
November 18th, 2007 at 11:55 PM
Holy shit, it was SEC plans using that very same logic over the CAL-TENN the year before. It’s ammo, so people use it.
November 19th, 2007 at 12:46 AM
The Ducks have been dealing with injuries to key offensive players all year. Dixon is a huge loss, but don’t be surprised if Oregon beats UCLA and Oregon State to finish 10-2 and go to the Rose Bowl.
You’re right that injuries complicate the equation, but every team deals with injuries every week. Some are just more publicized than others. The only way to level the playing field is to look at where teams stand now, whenever now happens to be. Otherwise, it’s too arbitrary. Appalachian State gets credit for beating a ranked Michigan team, but Oregon doesn’t, but Ohio State does. That’s crazy.
November 19th, 2007 at 1:01 AM
Apart from overhauling the BCS (which probably won’t happen for a while), a big point of change the NCAA should look at for football is mandating conference championship games for each conference. That way no team can sit at home (Big 10 and Pac 10 teams namely) and jump the #2 team that lost its conference championship game.
November 19th, 2007 at 1:18 AM
Brian is right on. Outside of Oregon and maybe now Oklahoma, there is no other team that fits in that category. And the two teams that beat Oregon and Oklahoma with all their players (Cal and Colorado) aren’t players in the national title anyway, so that argument is moot. Fine they want credit for beating a healthy Oregon and Oklahoma team? Fine. Here you go. Now explain your 6 losses.
I understand the LSU scenario, but Florida had a chance to win the rest of their games. You guys are looking at it in a vacuum. The next week that team will drop in the rankings but they can still get back in if their good enough. Look at Illinois. Mizzou beat Illinois in week 1 and now that win is good because we an say Illinois is a good team. Back then? Not so much.
Teams prove the whole season whether they are worthy of top 25 status in the last poll of the year. All the games are done and you can evaluate. To say that poll is not a true indicator is just being flatout wrong.
Of course its a true indicator. Why wouldn’t it be? Because of injuries? I don’t see LSU whining when they lost Doucet for the meaty part of their schedule and Doresey getting banged up. They went out and won.
By the way that Louisville win for Ketucky is great because the were in the top 10. Who cares that Louisville lost to Syracuse and gets embarassed weekly. They were in the top 10! They were good!
November 19th, 2007 at 3:23 AM
So, wait: If Tennessee beats Kentucky, it’s still the No. 4 or 5 best team in the SEC but it’s still going to the SEC championship?
So what’s the point of the SEC championship if you don’t have the best 2 teams playing?
November 19th, 2007 at 7:50 AM
Using the BCS rankings, LSU, Georgia, Florida, TENNESSEE. Yes, they are the fourth best SEC team in the national polls. They beat Georgia so they might argue they are better than UGA but the Dawgs are now ranked SIXTH nationally.
Florida lost to LSU. Tenn didn’t have to play them. I think that is the difference between Tenn being ahead of Florida and not being ahead of them. Georgia didn’t have to play LSU either. So yes the best teams don’t always make the title game.
And lets not PRETEND this is an SEC problem only. If Mizzou beats Kansas one of the top 2 ranked Big 12 teams will miss their title game as a 2 or even 3 loss team goes from the other side. And a Kansas team that didn’t have to play 2 of the top 3 other teams could ride that to the national title.
MtotheP: What is the ammo? That a team that was on its way to number 2 in the land with all their fans running their fat mouths about how this was the year, how they weren’t going CHOKE once again, beat the 4th best SEC team? Congrats. We are impressed. I remember THOSE people. Where the fuck are they? Where are the DeSean Jackson fans who were hyping him for nothing? Did those people fall off the face of the earth when Cal lost its second game or what?
Go Bears!