Ballin’: Here Come the Nuggs
NBA March 6th. 2008, 9:38am
Denver 126, Phoenix 113: If the Suns can’t win the second night of back-to-backs, what will happen in June? More shoddy transition defense from Phoenix, which also turned the ball over at an alarming rate (the Big Three had 15 of the 19). Melo had a beastly 31 points and 13 boards to pull the Nuggets one game within the 8th seed out West.
Boston 90, Detroit 78: How ’bout that Rondo dunk? How ’bout KG’s season-high 31? How ’bout Kendrick Perkins taking a career-high 20 rebounds? Ray Allen shot just 1-for-9. Still don’t think Sam Cassell is necessary, but that’s us.
Cleveland 119, New York 105: Sometime in the fourth quarter, when He had something like 35 points, He decided to tell Spike Lee he was going for 50, because it’s pretty wicked to score 50 in the Garden. And with ease, He got there: 50 points, 10 assists, eight rebounds.
Houston 117, Indiana 99: Will the 16-game win streak be short-lived with a trip to Dirk-less Dallas tonight? During the 4-0 streak sans Yao, the Rockets have beaten three teams with losing records.
Orlando 122, Washington 92: Dwight Howard led six players in double figures with 20 as the Magic shot 56 percent and cruised in the Phonebooth over the Wiz, who once again played without their two best players. Should be a fun summer for Gil.
179 Responses to “Ballin’: Here Come the Nuggs”
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March 6th, 2008 at 9:42 AM
i feel bad for Gilbert. all he’s done is be honest and open, and in the process, Wiz fans have gone bonkers over him. now he only says what was obviously going to happen anyways, and he’s going to be reviled.
March 6th, 2008 at 9:43 AM
everyone thinks it’s a slam dunk that he’ll return to the Wiz … we’ll see
March 6th, 2008 at 9:43 AM
Who would have thought that adding Shaq would be worse than losing Yao? That trade just keeps looking worse and worse. And I thought it was supposed to improve their defense.
March 6th, 2008 at 9:44 AM
Lebron puts up NBA Jam-like stat lines.
30+/8/8 averaged only by Oscar and Jordan.
He needs 8.76 assists per game in his last 21 to hit that.
March 6th, 2008 at 9:46 AM
50/10=Lebron>Kobe
March 6th, 2008 at 9:46 AM
Luckily for them, the NBA drags the playoffs out, so they’ll have roughly 1 calendar year between games.
March 6th, 2008 at 9:48 AM
perhaps i’ve become an optimist, but i think the Suns will be fine. I think at some point D’Antoni will realize that he needs to tell Nash to start running more of a halfcourt offense, and prevent the game from being up-and-down
March 6th, 2008 at 9:49 AM
Are Houston (without Yao) and Denver really going to make the playoffs, but either Dallas or Phoenix are not–like may people are now saying?
March 6th, 2008 at 9:49 AM
a win over the wizards is about as impressive as 50 points against the Knicks
March 6th, 2008 at 9:49 AM
I hope the Pistons and Celtics get together for the Eastern Conference finals. It would be a great series.
Pistons really faltered out of the gate, and had to make several runs to get close in the fourth. Pistons put Celtics into the penalty with 9:00 left in the fourth, and Celts were not whistled for a foul until 5:00 left in the fourth. Hmmmm…
Regardless, I like the Pistons chances as long as Rondo is at the point, throwing up wild, off balance shots.
March 6th, 2008 at 9:50 AM
The year Jordan made 30+/8+/8+ he did by the hair on his ass.
32.51 points, 8.05 rebounds, 8.02 assists.
March 6th, 2008 at 9:51 AM
honestly, i dont think he’s going to return to the Wiz.
if money is the issue, there are teams out there willing to shell out max money, something i think the Wiz are reluctant to do with a player who’s gotten hurt so badly the last few years. even with him, they were a nonfactor in the playoffs because of the complete lack of an inside game.
if winning is the issue, see above. he seems like the kind of guy who would be willing to take a discounted contract to play alongside one of his buddies, and the future in Washington is pretty cloudy.
who knows…
March 6th, 2008 at 9:51 AM
Although the Cavs have gone 5-2 since the trade I am really not sold on all their new players yet. I feel like Lebron has had to be extraordinary for them to win games against below average teams (MIN, CHI, NY).
It doesn’t help that Z, Gibson and Pavlovic are all out either.
March 6th, 2008 at 9:51 AM
D’Antoni will never tell Nash to run a halfcourt offense.
March 6th, 2008 at 9:53 AM
He shot 54% that year, too, Ben. 85% from the line.
Anyone who says Kobe is anywhere near MJ really needs to grow the fuck up, unless by “near” you mean miles and miles away. In which case I’d agree, except add more miles.
March 6th, 2008 at 9:53 AM
Doesn’t change the fact that he did it. And that no one else, other than the Big O, has.
March 6th, 2008 at 9:53 AM
Gilbert belongs in a Cali market
March 6th, 2008 at 9:54 AM
Here come the nuggs?? The game before they lost to the Yao-less Rockets by 14.
March 6th, 2008 at 9:54 AM
why do people care about “he’s the only player to do 30/8/8″ or whatever? what would that really mean? JACK SHIT.
March 6th, 2008 at 9:54 AM
D’Antoni is not a halfcourt offense coach and Nash is not a halfcourt offense PG. It makes no sense for them to slow things down. They would get run off the court by Denver, Golden St., and New Orleans. And there’s no way they beat San Antonio in the halfcourt.
The trade has backfired–big time. And many people owe Walton an apology.
March 6th, 2008 at 9:56 AM
If Gilbert doesn’t come back to Washington it will be all on him.
Spencer, I don’t know where you think resentment from the fans comes, Gilbert is the most popular player in the area. As I have said before if the Wizards don’t make every effort to keep Gilbert here they will have a public relations nightmare and will be playing in front of a half empty disinterested stadium, as opposed to a full disinterested stadium.
March 6th, 2008 at 9:58 AM
Doug, you read Simmons don’t you?
March 6th, 2008 at 9:59 AM
cbh…not right now, but if he leaves, i cant imagine Wiz fans being happy with it.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:00 AM
ugh…im in a bad mood.
Gilbert belongs in a Cali market? why? why do players “need” to be somewhere? why does lebron “need” to be in NYC? this is getting fucking ridiculous. LBJ goes for 50 last night, and all mike and mike can talk about is how he’s going to be in NYC. dear god.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:02 AM
Spencer, of course not, but I really think it is management that will take the heat, not Gilbert.
The only way Gilbert will be reviled is if the Wizards offer him the most money and he goes somewhere else. Then you can be sure I will be trashing my Arenas jersey.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:02 AM
It’s always fun see what Nick says. When Kobe goes bunkers and score 52 on the Mavs it’s not that good because he made a turnover with 30 seconds to play. When LeBron James scores 50 against the Knicks, that’s the clear proof that he’s the best.
What’s best? Scoring 52 against the Mavs (with OT) or score 50 against the lousy fuc**** Knicks?
BTW i love seeing LeBron James speaking to Jay-Z with 1:30 to play when his team was shooting a FT. Then Varejao grabbed the offensive rebound and LeBron had to get up and shoot a 3 clearly off the mark. If only Kobe had done it, it was a clear sign that he was caring more about Jay-Z than the game. Poor Varejao struggling to grab a rebound….
And i love when people tell others to “grow the fuck up” just because they have other opinion than theirs. It only proves who really needs to grow up….
March 6th, 2008 at 10:02 AM
@spence: No shit, I heard that too. Nobody knows who Lebron is outside of Cuyahoga County. He really needs to go to NYC so he can get some exposure. Fuck off, ESPN.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:04 AM
I agree CH4OS but Laker Fans are the same way. besides 50/10 is something Kobe has never done
March 6th, 2008 at 10:05 AM
cb…
I usually do. Why do you ask?
March 6th, 2008 at 10:06 AM
Fixed that for you.
@CH4OS: Saying Kobe is equal or near Jordan is like trying to argue until you’re blue in the face that Derek Jeter is more valuable than Alex Rodriguez. You can definitely do it, and more power to you, but you just end up looking like a clueless nit.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:07 AM
Because Simmons keeps talking that Gilbert needs to go to California nonsense.
In one sentence he says he isn’t a superstar, in the next he says he is a superstar worthy of LA. I like Simmons but not when he is figuring out ways for my favorite team to lose their best player.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:08 AM
cbh…agreed. to be honest, i cant imagine Gil in anything but a Wiz jersey, but they need a lot of help, and sinking a ton of cash into a guy who has had injury issues the last 2 years is something to make you think twice. if the wiz dont offer a fair deal, they’ll take the brunt of the scorn, but if Gil turns down their offer, that’s a different story. itd get real ugly real fast.
Nick P…its just ridiculous. still tho, seeing him chattin it up with Jay-Z wasnt the most comfortable thign.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:09 AM
YYSA, Stephon Marbury did 50-10, so this means he’s a great player? Or was a great player? I’m a Laker fan and you never seen me here saying Kobe was a MVP just because he scored 52 or something s*** like that.
I will continue to say Chris Paul is the MVP and yesterday he proved it again: 23pts, 18asts, 1 TO. Now i will use statement from the coming release “Nick’s Message Board for Dummies”…this is not a debate!!!!
March 6th, 2008 at 10:10 AM
YY – Kobe went for 50/10 (rebs)…Sunday
March 6th, 2008 at 10:11 AM
NSR – it’s been what, eight games?
Gilbert was already in a West Coast market … Golden State. He also played in Arizona in college.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:11 AM
@CH4OS: Notice I didn’t even reference Lebron’s one-game sample as evidence of anything. I did however mention that he’s on the cusp of 30+/8/8, something that’s only been accomplished by: 1 — the greatest player of all time and 2 — the greatest perimeter player pre-1980. So yeah I think that qualifies as an MVP season.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:11 AM
And BTW Chris Paul made 18 assists and 1 turnover without David West in the lineup. Ryan Bowen played 34 minutes and still he managed to do that, i find it amazing that nobody mentions him…….
March 6th, 2008 at 10:13 AM
Nick, unless the Cavs win 50 games in the Leastern Conference that doesn’t qualify nothing. The trophy is the Most VALUABLE Player not the BEST Player. If that worked that way, Kobe would have won it a couple of years ago…
March 6th, 2008 at 10:13 AM
@CH4OS: Damn, CP3 is really special. He was able to have one really solid game without his other ALL-STAR TEAMMATE. Too bad Lebron can’t do that, oh I don’t know, HIS ENTIRE CAREER?
March 6th, 2008 at 10:15 AM
@CH4: He wasn’t the best player 2 years ago. Sorry that was Lebron again. Numbers DO tell the story.
and the Cavs only need to go 15-6 to hit 50. Not out of the realm of possibilities, considering we have Chicago 3 more times.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:15 AM
BTW Nick where did LeBron James made the 3 point after he was talking to Jay-Z? Are you high? Well that would explain a lot….
March 6th, 2008 at 10:16 AM
CH4OS…CP3 is a worthy candidate. he’s been putting up monster numbers all year without the strongest supporting cast. he’s in the top-end of the discussion now, but just a personal feeling, NOOCH’s lack of depth is going to catch up to them at some point this year and it’ll end up a two horse race.
and i know i havent been around lately, but Kobe has been killin’ it.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:17 AM
Well and i thought Zydrunas Ilgauskas was an All-Star in 2003 and 2005 also…damnit, liar liar pants on fire…once again…
March 6th, 2008 at 10:17 AM
Kobe scores 50, it’s ho hum. That is what happens when you’ve dropped 80 in a game, and you’re the best player in the world. People are in such a rush to annoint James as the great one, it’s funny.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:17 AM
Understand the NYC/LeBron thing, money and exposure…now if he was on my team I would be pissed the fuck off if he left, but to comment on him being there is purely about the finances…now for those who say NY and then link Jay Z and the Nets..that is not NYC…even in Brooklyn..its not NYC…LeBron needs to be on the Knicks for it to mean something, the Nets have been the best team in the area for 8 years and no one cares…When the Knicks are good, the ratings are up the advertising goes up and the money is to be made..thats the fact…now do I want LeBron on the Knicks..absolutely…do I think it’s fair…absolutely not.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:18 AM
Here
March 6th, 2008 at 10:19 AM
cb…
I see. He just seems so out there and is such a strong personality I think he would fit in there. I see where Simmons is coming from.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:21 AM
I don’t really think you can have a debate about MVP’s until you reach the end of the season. If the Lakers get the 1st seed in the West you have to give credit to Sasha Vujacic…errrr….Kobe Bryant, if the Hornets get 50 wins you have to get credit to CP3, if the Cavs win 50 games in the Least you have to give credit to LeBron.
I don’t think it’s a 2-man race, it’s unfair to CP3 because he’s the single reason why the Hornets are in contention in the West.
This is not an award to BEST player and people tend to forget that. This is Most VALUABLE player and that’s why Steve Nash won it 2 times in a row, i don’t know why you would consider give it to Nash 2 years with similar season to this one to CP3, and then don’t consider Paul this year.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:21 AM
DC is filled with people with strong personalities and who are out there, trust me.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:22 AM
Gottleib…Why? You can’t be out there in DC?…you have to be out there in LA?…I think that logic is shit..I get the money aspect of the LeBron NY thing but there is no money to be made with Gilbert in LA…he’d be a Clipper which he will have less exposure that being a Wizard.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:25 AM
LeBron is like Bo Jackson at this point. sure, he’s great because hes that much more physically imposing than anyone else. kobe is like walter payton…totally refined game, no real weaknesses, all around great player with great fundamentals.
bo = limitless potential and great production
sweetness = epitome of the elite professional
theyre both great, just different, cant we just keep it at that?
March 6th, 2008 at 10:25 AM
I really dont think the Kobe/LeBron debate will ever be solved.
In my OPINION they are two very diffrent types of players. Kobe is the more talented offensive player. LeBron is a physical force. Playing with either one of them would be great.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:26 AM
What’s MJ in that analogy?
March 6th, 2008 at 10:26 AM
RWH, there’s a big difference between Brooklyn and East Rutherford. A big enough difference to make LeBron with the Nets more relevant than the Knicks.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:27 AM
+5,000,000 Spencer.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:27 AM
Why not a sign-and-trade with the Clippers? Elton Brand for Gilbert Arenas? The only way Gilbert is going to get max money is by sign-and-trade or signing with Memphis, and he seems to enjoy LA a lot so why not trading Elton Brand, play Al Thornton at the 4 and Kaman at the 5, and the Wizards will have the interior presence they always needed. It’s a shame that would never happen…
March 6th, 2008 at 10:28 AM
In that analogy MJ would have to some sick blend of Jim Brown andBarry Sanders.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:29 AM
@jayjay: The thing is, offense in the NBA is well-documented. There are measured statistics that show, on offense, Lebron James is just better than Kobe. If you want to argue for Kobe, you really have to resort to things that aren’t measured as well, like defense, “will to win,” or (insert intangible).
March 6th, 2008 at 10:29 AM
TBL, ues it’s only been eight games. But with how tight things are in the Western Conference right now every loss looms that much larger. They are in serious danger of missing the playoffs. And if they do make it, they’re going to probably face San Antonio, the Lakers, or New Orleans. All bad matchups for them right now.
I have seen nothing from them in eight games to suggest that this is going to work out.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:30 AM
cb…
do you think Gil stays in DC?
March 6th, 2008 at 10:31 AM
i we really comparing Lebron to Bo jackson here. bo jackson is not in any hall of fame. yeah he had talent out his ass, but to compare Lebron to Bo jackson is just plain retarded. Lebron is a hall of fame lock. is bo jackson in the hall of fame? no
March 6th, 2008 at 10:32 AM
@spence: I think a better analogy would have to be Lebron is Bo Jackson, Jordan is Barry Sanders, and Kobe is Emmit Smith.
Jordan did it sickly and for a long time.
LBJ has done it sickly so far; just a shorter time.
Kobe has done some sick things playing behind an otherworldy offensive line (Shaq/Bynum/Gasol).
March 6th, 2008 at 10:33 AM
As much as I despise the Lakers, I think Kobe is the MVP this year so far. Still a lot of season left, though.
I think Chris Paul is incredible…too bad I rarely get to see him play. If he were to win the MVP, TBL simply MUST put up a picture of that crotch punch he did while at Wake Forrest. Classic.
Pistons will be fine against the C’s in the East playoffs.
BTW – Everybody go ahead keep calling it the Leastern Conference. I believe that is what it was called in 2004 and 2006 also…and we had Champs come out of the East those years.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:34 AM
MJ = Jim Brown, the undisputed best
why? because its my analogy and i can cry if i want to.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:34 AM
When did Bynum reach otherworldly status?
Doug, I think he does, and I think he will end up getting traded 3-4 years into the deal.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:34 AM
I’m just saying comparing Kobe and LeBron is kinda like comparing apples and oranges. Also I think alot of people just dont like Kobe and tend to let their feelins about “Kobe the man” get mixed in with “Kobe the basketball player”.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:34 AM
Well, that was more for Shaq. It’s not like all 5 members of the Dallas O-Line were HOFers, but enough were to make it the best O-Line ever.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:36 AM
I think it is fair to say because of Lebron being Physically more gifted then Kobe, his cieling is that much higher.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:36 AM
no, only 4 members of that Dallas line were, and its a shame Nate Newton loves pot almost as much as I do because thats the only thing keeping him out.
Nate was one of the best guards of the era, and nbody could drive a pile like him. incidentally, nobody could drive a pile of weed across state lines in a U-Haul like him either.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:37 AM
Yeah Kobe did what he did in 2005/2006 with Shaq, Bynum or Gasol. Oh wait, i just remembered Shaq was traded that time, Bynum was on the bench and was a non-factor and Gasol was in Memphis. So he did it with Kwame Brown, Lamar Odom, Luke Walton and Smush Parker.
Unlike your lie #712 above in the comments saying LeBron never played with All-Star’s, Kobe did it without any All-Star and with KWAME and SMUSH! Wow, he’s so lucky to play with those 2…if only LeBron had been so lucky to play with them…
Now i get it, it’s not only being a LeBron lover is being a Kobe hater. You can say what you want, but trying to minimize Kobe’s feats during his career is simple being an idioten..like they say in Germany…
March 6th, 2008 at 10:38 AM
Intangibles are used to measure greatness in all athletes. People alive during the first half of the 20th Century will tell you that Ty Cobb was the greatest baseball player ever. People since, based on the numbers, will tell you Ruth. People my father’s age and older will tell you that Willie Mays or Mickey Mantle were the best players of their era. People who have come along since and look at numbers will tell you Hank Aaron. Intangibles involve going with what you’re actually watching. Numbers arguments often involve one guy trying to explain away what he truly sees.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:38 AM
CC I live in Baton Rouge and I get to see Chris Paul all the time. The guy is amazing. He destroys the other team’s point guard night in and night out. The only guy that gives him any trouble I see is Deron Williams.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:41 AM
nobody could drive a pile of weed across state lines in a U-Haul like him either.
The police who caught him twice would beg to differ.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:42 AM
awww, fuck it:
Houston Rockets (with or without Yao) > Kobe > LeBron
March 6th, 2008 at 10:43 AM
No one looking at numbers would say Hank Aaron is better than Willie Mays. Straw man, welcome to TBL.
@CH4: Kobe was sensational that year, carrying an otherwise dismal team to a 1st round playoff exit.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:43 AM
Can we put to bed this obnoxious fucking Kobe/Lebron debate and just focus on videos of caucasians dancing to that new Soldier Boy song?
/said in nerdy “white guy” voice
March 6th, 2008 at 10:43 AM
fuck the po-lice.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:44 AM
Plus when did playing D become an intangible?
March 6th, 2008 at 10:45 AM
atlanta…loved your city. the Hooters downtown was awesome. we saw a couple of fine-standing individuals getting arrested right outside of the place after going the wrong way on a one-way street and throwing some blow and a gun into the glove compartment.
Hooters + arrest-voyeurism + HAMMERED DRUNK = fun stuff
March 6th, 2008 at 10:49 AM
@Spencer–yeah, read your blog this morning…couldn’t believe you hung out downtown. It’s pretty scary…but if that’s where your hotel is, you probably didn’t have much choice–and if you got a “Cops” scene out of it, it couldn’t have been too bad! I’ve never been to that Hooters, though. Glad you enjoyed it nonetheless. And College Park? Ugh…that place sucks. Sorry you had to stay there.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:49 AM
No one looking at numbers would say Hank Aaron is better than Willie Mays? Home Runs, RBI’s, Batting Average, Total Bases? It’s already been done. This does put your LeBron is better than Kobe argument in it’s proper perspective.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:52 AM
With you, Darrell. Nick, you’re dead wrong if you’re going at this argument from the numbers angle. You could argue that Mays was a better all-around player, but definitely not by looking at the numbers. Aaron holds a host of MLB records (total bases, RBI, extra base hits, HR–yes, I still consider him the HR king). Mays was a spectacular player. But if you’re looking at numbers, Aaron is better.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:53 AM
Did Jason Maxiell get a flagrant for the foul on Rondo? looked like he knocked his head on the floor after dunking on Rip. rondo sure is stepping his game up this year
March 6th, 2008 at 10:54 AM
@Darrell: A 156 OPS+ for Willie Mays compared to a 155 OPS+ for Hank Aaron coupled with the fact that Willie Mays is widely considered the best defensive CF ever compared to Hank Aaron who played right field (a far less valuable position) tips the scales heavily in favor of Willie.
Rate statistics are more important than totals, as anyone who “looked at the number” should know.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:56 AM
atlanta…eh, it coulda been worse. id take downtown ATL (at least where we were) over downtown Cleveland any day.
college park was funny as hell. my alcoholic coworker decided to walk a mile both ways to get a case of beer. so he gets back, my boss has 1 and my other coworker has 2 and this kid downs the rest of the 24 pack in the span of 5 hours. that on top of half a bottle of xanax. i guess it wasnt that funny, but i got a kick out of it because i hate the kid.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:01 AM
So know widely considerations about someone defense is getting consideration in compare players?
Get ready for Nick’s Incoeherence #12007, when widely opinions of Kobe’s defense being clearly better than LeBron’s you should not believe that opinions, and you can’t count defense or intangibles to compare KObe to lebron but you can do it to compare Mays and Aaron.
Nick is your real name Bill Simmons?
March 6th, 2008 at 11:01 AM
Willie Mays has 164.6 win shares to Hank Aaron’s 156.6 in 300 less games for Willie.
Don’t let the numbers get in the way of a good story, though, guys.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:01 AM
for MVP I would go CP3, Lebron, KG in that order.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:03 AM
Okay, Range factor Willie 2.73 versus Range factor Aaron 2.60 at, again, a far less valuable position.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:04 AM
Nick can you found one more hidden and obscure stat so that you can believe that you are actually winning any argument? Good try though…
Do not ever give up!!!
March 6th, 2008 at 11:05 AM
@CH4: Of course, my VORTBLC (Value over Replacement TBL Commenter) is infinity.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:10 AM
Keep trying man, and while you’re at it show some of those obscure numbers that proves LeBron is better than Kobe. I don’t know how long you’re going to be able to live off of his performance in the Detroit series. It’s as if LeBron worshippers have forgotten that he was involved in a series after that in which his performance was rather pedestrian.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:13 AM
Darrell try to understand that LeBron’s groupies tend to forget certain things, that’s why they are LeBron’s groupies…
March 6th, 2008 at 11:14 AM
To each his own, Nick. I’m not trying to be as condescending and definitive as you are. One could argue that totals would reflect things like longevity and consistency (for certain stats). It depends on which numbers you look at. And if you want to spout win shares, there are roughly 3,784 articles on the web that talk about how win shares are unreliable for older statistics.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:15 AM
MSG was awesome last night. No matter how awful the Knicks can be, that felt like a Jordan-like night back in the day. Great atmosphere.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:17 AM
@Darrell: You’re really something special. In spite of all evidence to the contrary, you stand by your dogmatic beliefs. That must be what it’s like to be a religious zealot. Gotta go guys. I’m late for a service at the Church of Career Totals. Praise Hank. God is real.
@atl: Rate statistics AND totals both legitimately support Willie, when you consider he gave up about 200 games in his early 20s to serve in the armed forces. Plus the whole CF > RF thing.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:17 AM
sportshernia…that Kaman article’s title was one of the funniest things ive seen all week.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:30 AM
What were my beliefs? In reading your LeBron posts, you are perfectly aware in what it is to be a religous zealot. Enjoy the services at the King James Cathedral.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:36 AM
But my *beliefs* are supported by nearly every statistical measure in favor of Lebron James, save for (this year) TS%.
So to be a Lebron believer is to be someone who can:
1. Read (I can do this)
2. Add & subtract numbers (I can do this, too)
3. Occasionally divide numbers (and this)
Yes. I’ve been saved. I am a believer.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:39 AM
What the fuck did I miss..now we are whipping out Vorp Sats of two of the great players in baseball history to have a LeBron Kobe argument…I would take either of these guys on my team in a heartbeat…ENOUGH…I can’t take this they are both great…they both are on track to be future HOF….this is truly taking the fun out of the argument…Darrell…on the Nets…I agree Brooklyn is a bigger deal…but the Knicks are the Knicks and nothing is overtaking that LeBron or not
March 6th, 2008 at 11:39 AM
Nick runned out of obscure stats and don’t want to post the other 10000 stats he ignored, just to make others to adopt his beliefs has theirs. He’s really trying every day….
Oh boy, that’s not the definition for a religious fanatic? Oh well…
March 6th, 2008 at 11:41 AM
Nick do you ever heard about something called “moving sands”? Be careful…
March 6th, 2008 at 11:43 AM
@CH4: Find one of the 10,000 that says Hank is better than Willie. And please don’t resort to career totals. I tried to keep it relatively simple by sticking to OPS+ (which measures production as a hitter just about as well as anything) and defensive position, but I guess that’s not enough. If you don’t know that 156 > 155 and CF > RF, then I’m not sure what to tell you, friend.
I guess it’s easier to attack my character on the internet than find numbers (pesky buggers) that would support the opposite stance. Kudos; way to take the easy way out.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:44 AM
I feel like everybody on this board is just having fun pissing Nick off, its really not even an argument about who the better player is.
That being said if you want to debate “MVP” and define it as “most popular player on an elite team,” it is definitely Kobe.
You could not give it to him if it was “best player on an elite team” as that would be Duncan, or Garnett, hell Bynum was better than Kobe before the injury and Gasol’s been better than Kobe since the trade.
Best player in the game isn’t even a debate. And stats do pretty much tell the complete story. Funny the names on the lists that LeBron James continues to join all seemed to be remembered as all time greats, but Kobe isn’t on those lists. The only lists LBJ needs to get that Kobe are on are “35 pts/game in a season” and “80 points in one game.”
LeBron most likely wont get those as he’s too busy making a bunch of dogshit players better by assisting and drawing triple teams with the ball and doubles when he is off the ball, leading to wide open DJ 3 balls.
THIRTY, EIGHT AND SEVEN AND A HALF. (only 23 years old).
March 6th, 2008 at 11:46 AM
@RD: I’m as cool as a cucumber. The only thing that almost got me boiling was being compared to Simmons, which as you would know, is the worst insult you can possibly give someone.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:48 AM
Bynum was better than Kobe before the injury?
March 6th, 2008 at 11:50 AM
Here comes the infantary, hey Nick do you call for backups? Shame on you…shame on you…
Oh well i have to leave now, and i’m not going to be able to see RD and his nonsense sentences like an example of a good closing finish is a All-Star Dunk…it’s a shame to don’t see these hysterical moments happen…
March 6th, 2008 at 11:51 AM
So to be a Lebron believer is to be someone who can:
1. Read (I can do this)
2. Add & subtract numbers (I can do this, too)
3. Occasionally divide numbers (and this)
and 4. Believe that playing defense is an intangible
March 6th, 2008 at 11:51 AM
Oh boy now i see that RD did it again “Bynum was better than Kobe before the injury”. Keep it going kiddo, someday when you change your voice you will win a brain as a gift from LeBron James Groupies Exclusive Club.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:54 AM
Bynum was better than Kobe?????? Uh oh, here comes the reinforcements from the commune.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:54 AM
Per minute Bynum was easily better. Per game he was not.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:55 AM
Oh boy another…(i should have read your all post RD, but i kind of ignore it) “lists that LeBron James continues to join all seemed to be remembered as all time greats”
Yesterday LeBron James entered a group of players that his formed by Michael Jordan and Stephon Marbury.
Of course, Marbury is rememberer as an all-time great…this is pure gold!!!
March 6th, 2008 at 11:56 AM
Darrell…I’ll be the first to admit im a lebrizzy fanboy. i went to his rival HS and saw him play since he was a freshman, and im also a cavs fan in cleveland so…
but his D is improving pretty nicely and he’s still only 23. kobe wasnt that great a defender when he was that young either so take it for what its worth.
and count me among the guys who would take either in a heartbeat. big lebron fan, but if kobe was on my team, id be just as loyal.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:58 AM
Did Maxiel get a flagrant for that foul on Rondo?
March 6th, 2008 at 11:59 AM
@CH4: 1 game sample lists are incredibly stupid. The royal We would never cite such things.
March 6th, 2008 at 12:06 PM
Bynum is shooting 64% from the floor this season. I sure that means very very little to some people on this board and a fucking ton to others.
Let’s just say 100% is ideal, and 0% is as bad as possible. This is the most important stat in basketball.
March 6th, 2008 at 12:09 PM
Per minute Bynum was easily better. Per game he was not.
If you spend the first half or 3 quarters of a game getting your teammates going before you take over in the 4th quarter, then that stat may actually make sense. Who was the better player per the last 5 minutes, Bynum or Kobe? While we’re at it, who was the better player during the last 5 minutes during the Lake Show run, Shaq or Kobe?
March 6th, 2008 at 12:13 PM
Darrell: If Kobe spent 75% of the game “getting his teammates” going, it might be reflected in a fairly high assist per game total, which he doesn’t have. Try ‘er again, man. To borrow from you: “give me some more advanced late-and-close stats to prove your point. I’m not buying what you’re selling.”
March 6th, 2008 at 12:23 PM
So if Bynum has 64% and LeBron is 49% and that % served to say that Bynum was better than Kobe, so that serves to say that Bynum is better than LeBron.
Thanks RD for this drop of “knowledge”…you keep amazing me more and more….
March 6th, 2008 at 12:26 PM
RD one piece of advice, don’t try to neglect other players feats, you don’t need that to prove that LeBron James is the best PLAYER. Saying things and using examples like you do, just make you sound more dumber than a wood door.
If you guys keep giving attention to Kobe’s imperfections it’s because you are caring about him too much, and that normally happens when you are jealous of his feats. Don’t give him attention if you think he sucks big time…
March 6th, 2008 at 12:32 PM
Haha, do you guys have this argument on the weekends as well?
March 6th, 2008 at 12:34 PM
cbh49er plus 10
March 6th, 2008 at 12:36 PM
I realize now that I HATE the Boston Celtics.
I’m going to owe my friend 50 bucks because I bet the Celtics wouldn’t finish higher than 5th in the Eastern Conference.
Screw Boston.
March 6th, 2008 at 12:39 PM
I will say this …. this is a passionate basketball group we have here. Seriously.
March 6th, 2008 at 12:42 PM
would you admit TBL that this is the most popular post on the site?
March 6th, 2008 at 12:58 PM
i just love the NBA. always have, always will.
tho i will admit it does take me a good month after the season starts to get my addiction back into form.
March 6th, 2008 at 1:02 PM
Haha damn I’m dumb, I probably have no real world credentials to dispute that too.
FG % is the most important stat, however it is not the ONLY stat.
LeBron does a ton of everything else. He has a little Chris Paul in him and a little Dwight Howard in him.
March 6th, 2008 at 1:04 PM
Kobe has a little of LeBron in him in terms of scoring and taking over games.
March 6th, 2008 at 1:28 PM
Found this interesting:
He’s played like shit all season long, so if that isn’t “hitting the wall,” I don’t know what is.
March 6th, 2008 at 1:36 PM
Are the rookies that bad then that everyone is saying Durant will win Rookie of the Year?
Irish, I appreciate you keeping the trash talking at a minimum about last night’s debacle.
March 6th, 2008 at 1:38 PM
@CBH: The people who are voting will see his 19 or 20 PPG and assume that means “playing well,” when it couldn’t be further from the truth. So yeah, he’ll win.
March 6th, 2008 at 1:43 PM
Thorton, Hortford and Scolia have been playing well.
March 6th, 2008 at 1:47 PM
horford is a beast. he’s going to be an awesome hybrid of elton brand and marcus camby.
March 6th, 2008 at 2:45 PM
In getting their respective fans to say utterly ridiculous things and only cite facts/stats that will help their case while ignoring others:
LeBron > Kobe
March 6th, 2008 at 2:48 PM
Lebron was sick last night. Gotta give props when dude hits seven threes. Lookin forward to watching him tonight.
Scola and David Lee are the two most underrated players in the association. Just bruisers who are always around the rim. I like the Rockets even more now that Scola is starting, even w/o Yao. Gives them some interior toughness.
March 6th, 2008 at 2:53 PM
In getting their respective fans to say utterly ridiculous things and only conventional wisdom/worn out sports cliches/logical fallacies that will help their case while ignoring others:
LeBron < Kobe
March 6th, 2008 at 3:30 PM
Seeing Nick talking about logic and fallacies is mindblogging to say the least.
Let’s recap Nick’s day:
1) Try to fool anyone “fixing” something i said.
The reality was that LeBron missed the shot as everyone saw, but it’s not shocking to anyone that once again Nick didn’t notice a difference between his imaginary world and reality…
2)
He once again “forgot” that Ilgauskas was an MVP in 2003 and 2005, but once again it’s not shocking that Senor Nick choose to ignore some stuff, that’s what he does!
3)
Then to make a point about Willie Mays vs Hank Aaron what did he used as an argument?
Yes, …defense… for one things you can use it, for others you can’t. That’s Nick’s logic my friends, it’s sad that only work for himself…
4)
Of course Kobe did it in 2005 without Shaq, Bynum was on the bench most of the time and Gasol was in Memphis. Once again his memory failed him…or maybe he just want to ignore things again. Is that a disease? And does it spread through comments?
5)
Hey Ni, There’s one name that describes people that say “Royal We”, it starts with douche and ends with bag.
So this ends the “Nick’s Trying to Impose His Opinion on Others” of the day, see you tomorrow for more good stuff.
And remember if you have a different opinion is because you’re wrong, and that’s not even a debate!
March 6th, 2008 at 3:32 PM
Of course i did a mistake, Ilgauskas was not a MVP but an All-Star, all this imposing the opinion of LeBron being MVP, is starting to enter my brain…
March 6th, 2008 at 3:36 PM
Nick:
The fact that you felt singled out and felt the need to respond to my comment just furthers my case. I’d just like to remind you that one of your henchmen said “Bynum was better than Kobe before the injury” earlier in this post.
We get it: You think LeBron is the best player in the NBA and better than Kobe. That’s your opinion. That’s fine. Why do you feel the need to CONSTANTLY convince others and change their own OPINIONS?
I enjoy the rest of your comments on the site, but frankly, this is getting quite annoying. It’s not so much the endless hyping and being a fan of a player, (lot of people do that; here’s looking at you irishmafia), but your need to force your opinion on the rest of us and change our minds.
March 6th, 2008 at 3:40 PM
goose- what did i do now?
March 6th, 2008 at 3:41 PM
@CH4: I appreciate that you have a huge man-crush on me and would take the time to do this.
I couldn’t find range factors immediately. Sorry I wasn’t given any levity w.r.t. that, but I did ultimately find them and *proved* as well as I could that Willie was a better defender at a much better position, depending on how much you trust RF.
My memory didn’t fail me post-Shaq/pre-Bynum, but again my memory is cloudy, did ya’boy when a playoff series? No? Ok.
Did he instead chuck up a lot of shots and have sub-par (by superstar standards) rebound and assist totals and dismal turnover numbers? He did? That’s what I thought. Was he basically a little better version of Allen Iverson? I could probably make that argument, since he offered nothing else on offense besides the ability to 1. Take a lot of shots, 2. Not much else.
My logic has always been and will remain: if you can quantify it, then let’s use it. If you can’t, anything you add becomes a sordid mess of “My eyes tell me!!!” and “I know what I see” that just devolves into a pissing contest. Someday NBA defense will be quantifiable, and I think it might already be in certain proprietary circles within some NBA front offices. Until that data becomes public, we can’t just blindly trust our eyes, when NONE of us watch every second of every game. Eventually data will fill in the rest.
You really got me good, man.
God is real; his name is Lebron.
March 6th, 2008 at 3:44 PM
@Goose: Don’t know what to tell you, man. During Ballin’ we discuss the NBA. Lebron/Kobe are the two biggest stories in the NBA. So, yeah, guess we discuss them the days after either play. The days they don’t (like yesterday), they barely get a mention.
March 6th, 2008 at 3:52 PM
Hey Irish Dwight Had 20 and 11 last night.
March 6th, 2008 at 3:52 PM
Dismal turnover numbers? He averaged 35 pts and 3.1 TO. Lebron has NEVER averaged less than 3.2. If your entire basis for arguing something is numbers, then get them fuckin right.
March 6th, 2008 at 3:52 PM
i watch every magic game Jayjai
March 6th, 2008 at 3:54 PM
And btw, how many All-Stars do the Lakers have this year besides Bryant? ZERO. The same as Lebron. I guess the teams are equal in talent, since we can’t use common sense and objective viewing to determine the better supporting cast.
March 6th, 2008 at 4:02 PM
Nick what do you need to understand that your act of trying to impose your opinion is starting to get annoying. You sound more and more like Bill Simmons. Get over with it.
BTW, i’m a Laker fan but i’m not a Kobe bitch. I don’t think Kobe is the best player in the NBA, and you never heard me saying this. I’m not incoeherent, and i’m not blindsided that can only see qualities in players in my team and faults in the others. Thank God i can see beyond that…
So with that in mind don’t say lies like this
, when i’m saying all along that CHRIS PAUL is the MVP until now. He’s not flashy, he’s not friends of Jay-Z, he’s not a Yankee fan and in love with NYC waiting to leave, he’s just a fundamental sound player that improve all his players around him.
When you say that LeBron James doesn’t have good players in the same team, did this defines the Most Valuable Player, improving his teammates so they don’t suck anymore? Even Kobe Bryant did that with Smush Parker (check the stats) so that argument is mute. Chris Paul had a incredible impact in all his teammates this season, and still you guys ignore him?
I will repeat myself once again, so that you can understand this time (hope never dies…) IMHO, all-around offense: LeBron James > Kobe Bryant, no doubt about it. All-Around defense: Kobe Bryant > LeBron James, no doubt about it. If i had to start a franchise today, who would i choose? LeBron James no doubt in my mind…
So continue to say that i’m wrong….that makes sense.
I will hope that someday you will understand that just because someone doesn’t share your fanatism about something, that doesn’t make others wrong. What you do with LeBron James is what Muslim fanatics do with theirs religion, and what Catholics did in the past about their religions.
Start to respect the opinions of others, maybe someday life will teach you that….the hard way…
March 6th, 2008 at 4:07 PM
Nothing. Just used you as an example of being a superfan of a player, in a good way, without trying to force us to agree with your opinion.
March 6th, 2008 at 4:10 PM
The Magic get a real point guard they will be freakin awesome.
March 6th, 2008 at 4:14 PM
jayjaib, Jameer was not bad last night, but El Calderon in a Magic uniform would be awesome…
March 6th, 2008 at 4:16 PM
But even with Calderon, i’m not sold that a true contender can have Rashard Lewis at the 4, maybe play Rashard at the 3 and Hedo at the 2? But Hedo defending athletic guards? Haiks…
March 6th, 2008 at 4:17 PM
He wasn’t bad but he’d be an even better backup.
March 6th, 2008 at 4:19 PM
I really thought they would have made a run at one of the old guys(Ratliff, P.J Brown, Kurt Thomas) to help Dwight bang down low.
March 6th, 2008 at 4:21 PM
alright goose
Guys if the Magic had a PG and a SG, they would be the frontrunners in the East. But we dont, so we are stuck in a uphill battle with being mismatched every night at the guard spots. Gotta love Dwight Howard though, double double machine. enough of that from me, you guys know who i like
March 6th, 2008 at 4:22 PM
jayjaib and they did offer a better deal to the Sonics for Kurt Thomas, but Sam Presti decided to give a gift to his ex-team…
March 6th, 2008 at 4:23 PM
Damn West Virginia girls basketball quarterfinals – I missed out on an above average comment section day!
I really don’t have anything to add, other than the Cavaliers are seriously going nowhere if they think the one-man show will be get them an NBA championship (they’ll probably lose in the 2nd round…and then the role players will be blamed).
LeBron went off last night (although 12 of his points came after the game was decided). Interesting that Kobe got blamed for being such a ballhog in 05..averaging 4.5 assists – as if 3 more assists a game would automatically make him more unselfish (you don’t think having better shooters would get him a few more assists a game?).
Yet LeBron leads the NBA in shots, and nobody calls him unselfish (rightfully so…). I’m just pointing out the obvious double standard between the two). Kobe was not selfish during his magical year, he was surrounded by a far worse supporting cast then what the Cavaliers have now (or even before the trade).
March 6th, 2008 at 4:25 PM
The whole supporting cast argument as it relates to MVPs is tricky. On one hand, you can say that LeBron (or whoever) doesn’t have an all-star next to him, so this shows how good he is in carrying his otherwise mediocre team to the playoffs. But, Kobe did the same thing in 05-06, when he carried Odom, Kwame, Luke Walton, and Smush Parker – yes this was their starting 5-
to a near upset of the Suns in the playoffs. You can’t say that Cleveland’s supporting cast is any worse than that, plus they play in a weaker East.
On the other hand, you have Nash who won back to back MVPs with 2 other all-stars in Marion and Amare, as well as other good role players (Thomas, Diaw, Barbosa, Bell etc…)
I guess what I’m trying to say is that the MVP awarding has gone to the best player on a team that does really well or improves a ton or greatly exceeds expectations in the regular season and thus is a top 3 seed in the playoffs. Well, for that to happen, you’d need a decent supporting cast. So of course Kobe has a good supporting cast with Gasol and Bynum; that’s the difference between a 7 seed like in previous years and a 1 seed in the West. This shouldn’t count against him.
Best player on the team that is atop the super competitive West = easy choice for MVP. That’s how the voting has gone is recent years, and Kobe fits the bill perfectly.
March 6th, 2008 at 4:29 PM
I’m sorry TheGoose but why don’t Chris Paul fit that bill also? The Lakers are 43-18 and the Hornets are 41-19, so i don’t see why Chris Paul shouldn’t get the award, if only he played in a team that had media coverage…
March 6th, 2008 at 4:30 PM
MVP CANIDATES
CHRIS WALLACE GM MEMPHIS GRIZZLIES
KEVIN MCHALE MINNESOTA T-WOLVES
March 6th, 2008 at 4:32 PM
No offense, cursed, because you say numbers in hoops don’t mean as much as in other sports, which is fine if it’s your stance.
But 3 more assists over current 4.5 would be an increase of 67%, so that’s like saying, “Jeter’s average was .300…as if hitting .500 (67% increase) would really make him a better hitter”
March 6th, 2008 at 4:39 PM
Nick…I watched plenty of Laker games that year…and if Kobe had anyone else other than Smush and Kwame – you mean to tell me a simple drive and kick wouldn’t have gotten one or two more assists? You’re being disingenuous. And if he goes from 4.5 assists to 5.5 or 6.5 (which he’s done before), that means he’s all of a sudden “unselfish”..
Assists totals are just stupid sometimes. They are too reliant on shooters, situtations and offenses.
Do you think it’s a coincidence that Phil Jackson’s triangle offense never seems to yield high assist totals by one player? Or has he only coaches selfish players ? Hmmm.
March 6th, 2008 at 4:43 PM
CH4OS:
You’re right, Chris Paul does fit the bill. He’s certainly a top candidate, along with of course LeBron. But if I was a voter, my choice would be easy:
1. Kobe
2. Chris Paul
3. LeBron
March 6th, 2008 at 4:44 PM
Well I do know that Lebron is on the 24th best shooting team in the league, and averages over 7, so it can be done.
However, to answer your question: Scottie and Mike had multiple years over 6 under PJ, and Scottie had one season over 7.
March 6th, 2008 at 4:45 PM
And over 6 would put you in the top 12-15 in APG most years, so yeah, it can be done, triangle notwithstanding.
March 6th, 2008 at 5:00 PM
The Bulls were 72-10. Pippen was their leading assists man—UNDER 6 a game. Jordan had 4.3 assists that year. I guess he shouldn’t have been MVP.
Like Cursed said, the triangle is not built to get assists. Kobe leads his team in assists. I’m not really sure what else there is he can do.
March 6th, 2008 at 5:09 PM
Not Kobe or Bron, but cool none the less: really cool interactive NYT article where Jeff Van Gundy outlines how to stop the leagues most dominate players.
March 6th, 2008 at 5:09 PM
Yet the Lakers are 4th in assists per game. If your entire basis for arguing something is numbers, then get them fuckin right.
March 6th, 2008 at 5:10 PM
@Quin: Easiest way to stop Kobe is to Ira Newble him (i.e. let him jump, get your foot under his upon landing)
March 6th, 2008 at 5:12 PM
This year i saw every single game of the Lakers and you can clearly see that Kobe Bryant of 2007 is not the same ballplayer from the Kobe Bryant of 2005. In 2005, he had that streak of 40-point games, the 81 point game and so on, but he was clearly a ballhog. Maybe it was because his teammates sucked big time, but i also didn’t see why they can suceed without having the ball. And you could see that in the series against the Suns, when the Lakers start to share the ball and the team played very well for a team with less than half the talent that the Suns had. Some may say what Kobe did in that Playoff series and the Game 7 debacle, but these are the same guys that tend to forget that LeBron James sucked big time in the Finals, but don’t forget the Pistons series, so don’t do the same with Kobe’s Lakers vs. Suns. Just because he mailed in the 2nd half of game 7, don’t forget about the other 6 games, because if you do that everyone can do that with LeBron James Finals…and the Pistons series quickly disappear…
This year Kobe is really sharing the ball. He was playing very well with Bynum before he got hurt, how many teams did you see the pick-and-roll or the lob to Bynum…and then one thing people tend to forget is that how many times Kobe penetrates kicks the ball to other teammate, that then pass to the open man in the corner to a clean 3. Kobe doesn’t get the assist but it was him that create that shot, that’s the difference between this year Lakers (before Gasol) and the past: ball movement.
Of course having Derek Fisher in the place of Smush Parker quickly improves that a lot.
With all that said, i continue to say that Chris Paul deserves the MVP until 5 March 2008.
March 6th, 2008 at 5:15 PM
….of course their going to be fourth in the league in assists when they score the second most points…
I meant INFLATE ONE PLAYER’s assists numbers, like Celevand’s offense (or lack there of) does. Lebron is the only person who really gets assists on the team cuz the ball is in his hands 75% of the time.
March 6th, 2008 at 5:27 PM
@Quin: I know what you meant, but I also know what you actually wrote. Don’t worry; I was being a nitpicking bastard. I apologize for that.
@CH4: Lebron played poorly in the Finals. Very poorly. There’s a difference between playing poorly against a great D focused solely on stopping you and mailing in the 2nd half of a clinching game. You have to at least admit that, right?
March 6th, 2008 at 5:31 PM
I never said there was a difference, and i’m sure not the one having problems to admit things…
March 6th, 2008 at 5:32 PM
*not a difference…
March 6th, 2008 at 5:34 PM
If i had problems admiting things why don’t i choose to ignore certain things? It was me that mentioned the mailing in of the 2nd half of game 7.
Are you still going with this nonsenses?
March 6th, 2008 at 5:39 PM
That’s why I italicized it, to reflect that you were the one that said it. I don’t hide from the fact that Lebron played poorly in the Finals, but I do make the distinction that it is patently different from dogging it big time in a clinching game. Lebron has never done that in the playoffs.
March 6th, 2008 at 5:41 PM
Yes i don’t remember him doing that in the Playoffs. In the Regular-Season before this season he was in the “Vince Carter Mailing In League”, you have at least to admit that…
March 6th, 2008 at 5:42 PM
And before you say it, because i saw every Laker game this season, Kobe Bryant clearly mailed in the Spurs game in San Antonio in November or early December.
March 6th, 2008 at 5:46 PM
Last year I was disturbed by Lebron’s effort in the first probably 65 games of the season. He only played hard on the national TV games. Luckily Lebron @ 70% effort can still get you 50 wins.
This year he’s back to going full bore every game.
March 6th, 2008 at 6:49 PM
I just hope that once and for all we can get rid of the “____ makes people around him better” argument. I never liked that phraseology. It’s really systems and situations that make guys better.
I mean, the “King” certainly didn’t make Larry Hughes or Donyell Marshall better right? And actually, Z’s stats haven’t really improved since LeBron got there – actually, it seems like the offense the Cavaliers run seem to bring everyone else down at the expense of LeBron. Stupid offense.