It’s 3 AM and Willie Randolph Must Be Lonely. Did VP Tony Bernazard Put the Knife in His Back?
Baseball June 17th. 2008, 9:00am
In an act that can only be described as cowardly, the Mets fired manager Willie Randolph at about 3:11 am (EST) early Tuesday morning. He flew 3,000 miles across the country to Anaheim Monday morning for the start of a six-game road trip, and the Mets won the opener, 9-6. According to Newsday, Randolph returned to the hotel, where GM Omar Minaya was waiting to whack him and his coaching staff.
We’re on record as saying this is the wrong move, and we’re still not sure how Billy Wagner’s ineptitude (five blown saves) or Carlos Beltran’s stats not matching his salary (.273 average for $18 million) or Carlos Delgado’s disaster at the plate (.242 average, 60 hits, 57 K’s) are Randolph’s fault. If you think the players – specifically pouters like Beltran and Delgado, who “seemed indifferent” about the firing – have quit on Randolph, we hear this is due to VP of player relations Tony Bernazard, also known as Omar’s assistant. The Star-Ledger noted Bernazard was the only executive who accompanied the team to Anaheim.
Bernazard is a liaison from Minaya to the players, and all season long, we hear, he’s been running to the players and telling them that Randolph is trashing their crummy play behind closed doors. This began as a rumor in early May and will probably be written about in the coming days. The only hint we’ve seen of this in print was in Buster Olney’s blog Saturday, where he wrote, “For example, it’s an open secret that assistant GM Tony Bernazard and Randolph have serious problems with each other. But rather than settling this tension months ago — either by firing Randolph, reigning in Bernazard and keeping him clear of the work with the major league team, or insisting on a peace between the two men — the Mets have let this fester.” Here is an incredibly dubious piece of foreshadowing, from a 2005 profile on Bernazard: “When Tony goes after something,” says close friend Lou Melendez, Major League Baseball’s VP of international baseball operations, “you might as well put it down as done.”
Now the Omar and the Wilpons have given their clueless fans what they wanted – a scapegoat for last season’s collapse and this season’s early doldrums. Problem is, they botched this firing so badly that everyone’s going to destroy them for giving such a nice guy such an awful send-off. Mike Vaccaro of the New York Post unleashes some vengeance on the pitiful Mets front office:
… the men who run the Mets are quite obviously simple men, and sinister men, cowards cloaked in “no comments,” who have seen the way their baseball team has performed this year obviously decided: people don’t just need to be fired.
They need to be humiliated.
What a crowd these bums are, all of them, from the Wilpons at the top to Omar Minaya down below, all of them who conspired to botch this firing worse than any firing has ever been botched. Ever. You wouldn’t trust these guys to run a 7-11, let alone a National League baseball team. What a joke. What a cowardly, dastardly joke.
A midnight massacre.
A three-a.m. thrashing.
Disgraceful. Utterly, completely, disgraceful.
Bill Rhoden of the NY Times gets in a few digs as well, calling the Mets the “saddest show in town,” but he could certainly have extended that to the saddest show in baseball, and nobody would have disagreed with him. Today, we officially begin to actively root for the Mets to miss the postseason and GM Omar Minaya to lose his job on Sept. 29.
110 Responses to “It’s 3 AM and Willie Randolph Must Be Lonely. Did VP Tony Bernazard Put the Knife in His Back?”
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June 17th, 2008 at 9:03 AM
Is there any truth that Omar Mineya tried to get Randolph to come back when he walked outside and thought he saw The Loper?
Turned out it was just Jose Reyes with a stolen battery.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:06 AM
Does Willie have to return that stunning Mets watch he wears all the time? You can get one of those badboys at Macy’s, but still, I wonder.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:07 AM
hey Mets, way to one up grumbling Hank!
June 17th, 2008 at 9:07 AM
Uh oh! Watch out Phillies and Marlins! Here come the Amazin’s!
June 17th, 2008 at 9:08 AM
The Mets have won 3 of the last 4, and if Wagner doesn’t blow 3 consecutive saves, they are about 6-1 in their last 7.
Also, curious that the “whole staff” was let go, except the bench coach. Doesn’t it seem like he should be one of the first on the chopping block.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:09 AM
@CRM
Two guys about to kiss <<< your old avatar.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:10 AM
Jim Leyland: Still employed in Detroit
June 17th, 2008 at 9:11 AM
Especially classless. Why bring him west when they knew he would be gone? I can understand doing it at 3:15, so that the day’s newspapers in NY won’t have the story, but what the organization seems to forget are blogs like this, as well as the ability of newspapers to post news stories and opinions online. I note Vaccaro’s response in the Post, which is on spot:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/06172008/sports/mets/ready_____aim_____hold_your_fire__115840.htm
June 17th, 2008 at 9:11 AM
The Mets should’ve let Willie finish the series and then made him parachute out of the plane on the way to Colorado. If you’re gonna be an asshole, you might as well go all the way.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:11 AM
Vaccaro is awesome.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:12 AM
I like the way you think.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:12 AM
Super classless. This beats the “Firing on Friday afternoon” tactic by a hundred miles. Why not wait until he’s back in town? Or if the West coast swing is that important, fire him before they got on the plane?
June 17th, 2008 at 9:13 AM
a scapegoat for last season’s collapse and this season’s early doldrums
i think that about sums it up. it seems like this happens quite frequently in sports, most recently with the bulls. a team doesn’t live up to expectations, and a general manager does everything in his power to make sure the blame doesn’t fall on him. it will eventually lead to minaya (and paxson) being fired and taking a job with the mariners.
the lack of accountability in pro sports is astonishing. the more blame you can deflect, the longer you have a job.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:13 AM
I think Willie Randolph should still be a coach in the All-Star game this summer at Yankee Stadium. Quick poll time, what uniform should he wear?
1 – Yankees
2 – Brewers
3 – “Me” on the front (inspired by Ricky Bobby’s unsponsored car)
4 – National League
5 – Custom made Modell’s jersey
6 – Custom made F%&8 Minaya jersey
7 – Other
June 17th, 2008 at 9:15 AM
The “ace” of his staff is Armando Galarraga. Enough said?
June 17th, 2008 at 9:15 AM
I guess it could have been worse. They could have fired him in the middle of a game. It would be like taking out a pitcher with Minaya and Wilpon slowly walking from the stands to the dugout.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:15 AM
@TBL
The Tigers have won 8 of 9, if I am not mistaken. Leyland is NOT the problem so don’t even start with that shit.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:15 AM
how long til Willie ends up in LA next to Torre?
June 17th, 2008 at 9:16 AM
I think part of the reasoning for the timing, and the firing in general is the media. The Mets would rather have people talking about them, whether bad or good, at least they are talking.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:16 AM
TBL..as your most vocal “clueless fan” I wanted Willie fired…A MONTH AGO…how they have handled this makes me embarrassed to be a Met fan..they turned a simple thing like letting go of a manager and fucked that up…I never had a problem with Willie the man…he is a pro…he deserved better than this. Any spark that may have happened due to a Willie firing is done in my book..in fact watching this team over the weekend with the whole ax over Willie’s thing going on..they showed life. You got guys who don’t like the guy feeling bad for him. If he wasn’t good enough to be your manager after last night..he wasn’t good enough a week ago..two weeks ago…it should have been done then..what a fucking disgrace..Omar and the Wilpons deserve the giant shit pile of bad karma coming their way…I am embarassed by this franchise…
June 17th, 2008 at 9:16 AM
Omar should have done it N.W.O. style and hit him over the head with a steel chair while he was making a pitching change, and then spray painted “F-I-R-E-D” on his back.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:17 AM
Willie wasn’t the problem in NY, rarely is it the manager that is the actual problem in NY. That just how it goes….
June 17th, 2008 at 9:19 AM
THAT can’t be a good thing.
/dick joke
June 17th, 2008 at 9:20 AM
so many problems with that team. sooo many
June 17th, 2008 at 9:21 AM
That is saying a lot considering they share town with the Knicks.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:21 AM
FUCK!
/Braves fan who loves Willie screwing up his team
June 17th, 2008 at 9:22 AM
Exactly. I never thought Leyland was the problem, just as I never thought Randolph was the problem. Both teams went nuts spending money this summer, both teams missed the playoffs last year, and both are underperforming this season.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:24 AM
@TBL
You forget that we in Detroit/Michigan aren’t as completely fucking insane as those in NY. If we won A Championship in NFL or MLB you wouldn’t hear us bitching for a decade. New Yorkers bitch the very next season after a championship because you are all fucking crazy.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:26 AM
when a manager lets a pitcher, who has reached 100 pitches in the 8th inning and is being hit hard for the first time all night, talk him into letting him continue, then it’s the managers fault. baseball is simple. hit ball, run base.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:26 AM
TBL..Jim Leyland did not skipper the biggest collapse in baseball history, or have a tow 6 game losing streaks in a month, or bring out race in a non racial situation or fuck with the young starting pitchers heads, or bat 4 lefties in a row or not get along with the ownership…I am against what happened because of how it happened…but to say there wasn’t a just cause to fire WIllie is wrong no matter how “clueless” I am
June 17th, 2008 at 9:27 AM
no, It’s not that NYers are insane. They just always want to be the best in everything. nothing wrong with that.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:28 AM
I don’t see what was so humiliating about this firing. Is it that they let him fly to Anaheim? That’s not a rhetorical question. I’m honestly asking. Is it because it dragged on forever? That happens with almost every firing with media coverage these days as it is. I don’t get it.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:29 AM
Hmmm… not sure if I should cheer how badly the Mets are embarrassing themselves, or be concerned that this might spark the Mets to cause the Phillies some trouble. Nah, just cheer the Mets embarrassing themselves.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:29 AM
@sparty
THAT coming from a Spartan fan is incredible.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:30 AM
The Mets stink on ice…but Willie had to go.
CRM – Just made a trade proposal in the Yahoo league. How would you like to be this guy’s wingman?
June 17th, 2008 at 9:31 AM
Jerry Manuel wants to sign Rondel White
June 17th, 2008 at 9:32 AM
ATL…every day the newspapers were constantly saying he would be fired today. He was left to answer those questions for three days and was told his performance was based day to day…then he had to fly out to Anaheim after a double header..manage the game,…they won and 90 minutes after the game he was fired…if you are going to fire him..why let him go to California…why tell him it is performance based when it is not..if the guy is not good enough to be your manager tomorrow why let him manage tonight…it was dragged out in the media and Willie actually came out well…one thing in a string of awful front office decisions this year that are embarrassing..including the Ryan Church debacle..read MLJ at 10…I have 1500 words on why the Mets are an embarrassment.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:34 AM
Mags, Spartan football or basektball? We demand nothing but the best when it comes to our basketball team. Izzo sets the bar, championship banners, not NCAA appearances. Football is quite different. Any idea how many 7 win seasons we have had since the 70s. it’s quite pathetic.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:35 AM
atlantasportsfan, why was Randolph acceptable to manage the Mets after splitting a doubleheader Sunday but not acceptable to mamage the Mets Tuesday morning after a win against the Angels? I don’t think Randolph deserved to be fired, but why wait until an trans-continental flight? The only excuse could be if the front office went to fire the coaches and Randolph said if you fire them, I have to go too.
I hope Vinnie from Queens and Richard from Syosset are happy. They are the main reason this firing happened (Randolph’s unfortunate it’s all racial comments helped too).
June 17th, 2008 at 9:36 AM
willie was a bad in game manager this is true. that being said, this was handled terribly! Jerry Manuel, why even bother? as far as getting rid of peterson, why? the guy isn’t some kinda miracle worker, why would they think he can just turn around someone who was always inconsistant(O.Perez) or a bullpen that never was lock down. He made good pitchers better, not bad pitchers good. i hate the mets… side note: will meet the mets be retired when they leave shea?
June 17th, 2008 at 9:36 AM
@sparty–I agree with you about Randolph/Torre. In fact, I wondered if that was the first call Willie made after the firing. At least he can crash at his pad for a while–
June 17th, 2008 at 9:36 AM
doris from rego park is spinning in her grave(cough cough)
June 17th, 2008 at 9:38 AM
@ Magglio…
You forget that we in Detroit/Michigan aren’t as completely fucking insane as those in NY. If we won A Championship in NFL or MLB you wouldn’t hear us bitching for a decade. New Yorkers bitch the very next season after a championship because you are all fucking crazy.
Funny how you don’t bring up Flip Saunders and the NBA. Management hardly gave him a chance in Detroit.
Also, I am not sure if you are confusing the Mets with the Yankees. The Mets haven’t won since 1986. I think their decade of happiness is over.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:38 AM
Today, we officially begin to actively root for the Mets to miss the postseason
TBL, how has anything changed for you guys?
June 17th, 2008 at 9:41 AM
i still don’t agree with the Flip firing
June 17th, 2008 at 9:41 AM
I could die a happy man, having lived only on Jeter’s rejects and hand-me-downs.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:42 AM
the Mets are little brother. The Yanks are the measuring stick for them, bottom line. so they try to act like them. they even gave their closer the same entrance music as Rivera.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:43 AM
JWM..+ jew star…as for blaming callers on WFAN..that is the most retarded fucking argument I have eve heard..if the listened to callers..Willie would have lost his job a month ago..at the end of last year..during last year after Game 7 2006…they don’t listen to Vinny from Queens or RomanWarHelmet..trust me…if they did this would never have been a fucking debacle.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:43 AM
@sparty
So you only “demand the best” when it works out for you, sounds great. Why arent you just a USC football fan then?
@die eagles
Uhhhhh… they DIDN’T? They gave him the keys to a championship caliber team? He had the BEST RECORD IN THE NBA in his first season? How exactly is that giving him no chance? I didn’t think we needed to fire him anyway, I think we needed to shake it up, get rid of the old guys. I do bitch about the Pistons and they have won a championship, but you don’t see our media guys calling for Flips head a season after we won is all I am saying. The NY media is completely fucking whack-o.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:44 AM
@JWM – Peterson claimed he was a miracle worker. He said he could turn around any pitcher. Paging Victor Zambrano…Victor Zambrano, you’re needed in every Mets’ fan’s nightmares.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:45 AM
could the mets problems be relying on little bitch, pretty boys like david wright and carlos beltran instead of guys who actually give a shit and not Willie?
/trying to blow someone’s head up
June 17th, 2008 at 9:45 AM
no no no. you ain’t getting it. we have small expectations with the football program, but our hope is always high, especially after we start 4-0 every freakin year after beating ND. Muck Fichigan.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:47 AM
i like what you have to say, if i brought you a soapbox, would you lecture for my townspeople?
June 17th, 2008 at 9:47 AM
spencer…you are succeeding..Beltran is a bitch..but to go after Wright..one fo the few guys to give a shit..l;ow blow..blow blow…for that I hope LeBron much success in his move to Brooklyn
June 17th, 2008 at 9:48 AM
Shmoozer on:
And those Mets of Queens, flushing whatever integrity they had left with this midnight massacre out west. Showing there true colors which are not blue and orange, rather yellow!
Shmoozer off…
June 17th, 2008 at 9:51 AM
@ Magglio…I didn’t realize that it was the media that fired Willie, or called for his firing even. From what I know most media members like Willie, and from the media reaction today, that still seems to be the case. I don’t think it was the “crazy New York media” that did this.
@ Mike B…Victor Zambrano? Really? You are playing that card? It was Peterson’s fault that the Mets traded Scott Kazmir for Zambrano?
June 17th, 2008 at 9:51 AM
Liked Randolph. Don’t like how he was treated, so F the Mets. But I’ll still root for David Wright – he’s on my fantasy team.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:51 AM
As a person who terminates ppl for a living I have to wonder how they’ll code his exiting paperwork.
Out-sourced?
June 17th, 2008 at 9:52 AM
Isn’t this true of EVERY coach/manager who has ever been fired? They don’t play the game, we get that. You can’t fire the players in midseason, sometimes it’s the coach that has to go.
At least Jerry Manuel will right this ship.
/
June 17th, 2008 at 9:53 AM
TBL..for that statement…I hope “Billy Wagner” gives you the treatment for the live chat…It would only be symmetry that the downfall of Willie and TBL would be “Billy Wagner”
June 17th, 2008 at 9:53 AM
i was being lighthearted and you come back with that? asshole.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:54 AM
spencer-i cannot wait to see them flounder this season. it will happen…
June 17th, 2008 at 9:55 AM
spencer..I am pissy..don’t tempt me man…If I throw out grenades like that or Art Modell did the right thing..I can’t be held accountable
June 17th, 2008 at 9:55 AM
Funny how you don’t bring up Flip Saunders and the NBA. Management hardly gave him a chance in Detroit.
flip flamed out in three straight conference finals. what else do you need to see? i’d see watching him coach almost 350 games was enough of an indicator. if you can’t get over the hump in years 1-3, who’s to say you will in year 4 or beyond.
the yankees axed torre for the same reasons. same with d’antoni in phoenix. same with stan van in miami. the only team that was stupid enough to think they could win despite consistent letdowns is the fucking eagles with andy reid.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:56 AM
you understand that IF you lobbed that grenade i would be at your front step with a 2×4 embedded with rusty nails, a blue tarp and a large trunked rental car.
just so we’re on the same page here.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:56 AM
Angry much Rumeal?
June 17th, 2008 at 9:58 AM
well done baseball people well done. Most comments ever in a baseball thread
June 17th, 2008 at 9:59 AM
no. Riley wanted the glory after they picked up Shaq.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:59 AM
Where’s Imig? Is this Yardwork?
June 17th, 2008 at 10:01 AM
fuckin basketball is such a garbage sport, I still don’t see why the hoops threads get so many comments.
June 17th, 2008 at 10:02 AM
Here are my thoughts on Willie, Omar and the Wilpons.
June 17th, 2008 at 10:02 AM
wow, i almost never agree w/ TBL on baseball related (esp. mets) items but im pretty much on bord for everything hes said here. except carlos beltran not being worth his money. i think you need a little more research, beltran is legit. i mean did you really just cite batting average as your lone source of criticism? what year is this?
June 17th, 2008 at 10:02 AM
no. Riley wanted the glory after they picked up Shaq.
regardless, it was a coach who didn’t get a fair shake, just like flip and d’antoni. and now randolph. such is life. it’s not like they’re going to be collecting welfare or anything.
June 17th, 2008 at 10:03 AM
@phatjohnson- to each his own, right? I hate MLB with a passion.
June 17th, 2008 at 10:03 AM
Man every four or five years I am embarrassed to be a Met fan. Still, if you want to give Manuel a nice bump, the this team can go 8-4 over the next twelve without too much going right. That will hopefully move past this moment.
I also think Peterson is probably as good a pitching coach in the game but they had to let him go as well. I did not know what Nieto did wrong other than maybe being Willie’s guy.
June 17th, 2008 at 10:04 AM
@irish – oh, no doubt my friend. I was just wondering out loud.
While we are here though, at least our in play officials don’t bet on and fix games… hahaha
June 17th, 2008 at 10:07 AM
@phatjohnsons- one official and the rest is rumors. You can believe what you want. Obviously you like watching cheaters play if you like baseball. How many cheaters are in MLB? a shit load How many are in the NBA? none, he is on his way to prison
I still don’t see why the hoops threads get so many comments
ill pat myself on the back for that
June 17th, 2008 at 10:12 AM
Who’s Omar Mineya?
June 17th, 2008 at 10:13 AM
thanks, hammond.
/slaps head
Less than three hours to the LeBatard chat – keep those questions coming
June 17th, 2008 at 10:21 AM
Not only have the Mets managed to take the heat off the Yankees (wang, hank, etc) but they ended up fucking with a Yankee legend in the process. which in turn makes it even more fun to watch as a Yankee fan.
if anyone needed to be fired it was Minaya and Bernazard, but that would have been the easy thing to do.
June 17th, 2008 at 10:21 AM
@irish – at least the cheaters made the game more interesting.
The dirty refs (and i believe that most of them had something to do with this) ruined games.
June 17th, 2008 at 10:25 AM
No problem, TBL. In my own smartalecky way, I’m a man of the people.
June 17th, 2008 at 10:30 AM
You actually might not want to keep saying that. It will only increase traffic, and you know how much your servers hate traffic.
June 17th, 2008 at 10:30 AM
I’m not going to say Beltran’s not worth the money, but he’s not worth the positioning he gets in the Mets order. If Beltran was a 5 hitter with a better guy in the cleanup spot, I don’t think Beltran would take as much criticism.
June 17th, 2008 at 10:31 AM
@phatjohnson- i dont know why your nickname is familiar on here. i think you like the Bills or something. Am i right?
back to your hate of the NBA… refs should be singular, not plural. One ref, one problem. That is what i think.
June 17th, 2008 at 10:38 AM
OPS+ for beltran the last three years, 150, 126, 126 (for 2008 so far). beltran is producing fine, speed and power. plus hes well above avgerage fielder and arm strength. beltran is fine where he is in the line up and got what he deserved on the open market as a free agent. there are plenty of people on the mets to blame (delgado #1, castillo, pedro martinez and alou for injuries, oliver perez), beltran isnt even close.
June 17th, 2008 at 10:46 AM
While there are certainly other problems with the Mets, you can’t completely give them a free pass on Beltran. Just compare the Mets top three, Wright, Beltran, Reyes to the top three of their top competition in the division and the Mets fall behind there. That’s fine if you can make up for it in other areas, but the Mets act as if Wright, Beltran and Reyes are going to be as good as Rollins, Howard and Utley. It just hasn’t worked out like that and because the Phillies have caught up in the other areas, the division has shifted. The Mets needed to recognize that and bring someone else in that could keep their lineup on the same level as the Phillies.
The Mets felt they were fine and it caught up to them. I’m not really trying to rip Beltran as a player, just that the Minaya did not see this coming as much as he should have.
June 17th, 2008 at 10:52 AM
@kendynamo: You post more! Here and there!
June 17th, 2008 at 10:56 AM
i disagree jobo. here are the mets games played and OPS+ this year vs their phillies counterparts.
howard, 72, 108
rollins, 48, 106
utley, 72, 158
wright, 69, 126
reyes, 67, 119
beltran, 69, 126
you can go at these numbers and their productions a bunch of different ways but no matter how you do they come up to very comparable performances. going on the lat three years, saying the mets big three dont compare to the phillies big three is just wrong (especially when you add defensive value).
i also still fail to se why we cant give beltran a ‘pass’. he doesnt need a ‘pass’, he needs to be praised for consistently being one of the best center fielders in the league.
minaya does need to take some heat tho. adding castillo for 4 years at second is a move that is going to look worse and worse as time goes on.
June 17th, 2008 at 11:08 AM
Wright’s every bit as good as the best player of that bunch on the Phillies, but I’d put Utley/Howard ahead of Beltran and would put Rollins ahead of Reyes. Maybe not the best way to look at it. But, I’d take the players on a team in the order of an Utley/Howard/Wright cluster, Beltran falling behind that and then Rollins over Reyes.
I’m definitely not taking defense into it, the only comparison you can make there is Reyes/Rollins. This is just in terms of criticizing the GM, not the players themselves and focusing on the lineup. Just in terms of their lineup I think they needed to do more with it to keep what they had in 2006.
June 17th, 2008 at 11:14 AM
J2B: Yankee Legend? Did I miss something? Did Omar piss on Ruth’s grave last night? Did Fred Wilpon slap Don Mattingly in the face? If not, then no disgracing of a Yankee legend took place. Willie is nowhere near legend status in the Bronx. Was he a good infielder who made a couple all star teams? Yes. Legend? Not even close.
June 17th, 2008 at 11:15 AM
@irish – I’ve been on TBL for awhile… since that d-bag cowherd jacked up the current servers. ha
I just don’t post all that often. Meanwhile, I’m not a Bills fan. I live in Buffalo and root for the Colts, Yankees, and Sabres. Hate pro hoops, don’t root for a NCAA team, enjoy long walks on the beach and… nevermind.
I guess we just disagree. I think multiple refs are in on the gambling scam but we may never know the truth. If NBA cleaned up their refs and shortened their season, I might like it. In the mean time though, the players don’t play hard every night and the refs are chumps so I can’t bear to watch it.
June 17th, 2008 at 11:18 AM
im sensing some home team bias here. rollins to me is the worst of those 6, easily. and howard is a monster, no doubt, but if you take this years performance and than factor in defense, he is a below average player. utley is the best of that group tho, especially right now, he’s got my MVP vote (tho i dont have one).
so yeah, line up-wise, just looking at production this year, you cant say the phillies are out hitting the 3 mets guys. its too close to call.
but again, we agree that the GM did not do enough. the fact that Omar got lucky in 2006 with a couple of bench guys having career years i think did more harm than good in the long run.
June 17th, 2008 at 11:19 AM
I live in Buffalo
thats what it was. You are right, we may never know the truth. I respect your opinion on that matter. But to shorten the season, cmon now.
June 17th, 2008 at 11:30 AM
Where’s Reyes been better than Rollins other than steals? I just don’t see that one. As for Howard, again, I’m not factoring in defense because I’m just talking about recognizing what your lineup has and building the rest of your lineup based off of that. Like you said, we agree Omar hasn’t done enough, but I think overvaluing Beltran has something to do with how they thought they could get by with the rest of the lineup.
June 17th, 2008 at 11:36 AM
I was listening to the WFAN Morning show – the writer who called in said it perfectly. The Mets are showing how amateurish they can be. It’s effing sad, it really is. They had about 4-5 different opportunities to fire him where it made sense. After the end of the year, after losing to the padres or the frickin’ Nats, or whatever. But after they win 4 of 5 games, after they win 4 out of 6 series?
God, it’s so hard to be a sports fan in NYC right now, it sucks ass.
I’m not saying I expect the Mets to be in the world series every year (like some Yankee fans do). I want to have the opportunity for the management to get out of the way and let the players succeed.
And if Jerry Manuel is the answer to any of your woes, you’re asking the wrong question.
June 17th, 2008 at 11:36 AM
The Mets collapse last year has been overrated. That team overacheived for 5 months, then fell back to earth in September. If you look at that roster on paper, that is an 88 win team.
June 17th, 2008 at 11:41 AM
reyes’ last 3 years OPS+ 115, 103, 119. Rollins 101, 118, 106. Rollins is an over rated out making machine. they are close, i probably should have said he is ‘easily’ the worst of that sextet of all stars, but i would pick him last (and i admit my own home town bias).
June 17th, 2008 at 11:42 AM
make that should NOT have called him easily the worst.
June 17th, 2008 at 11:49 AM
@irish – good memory. Why are you against shortening the season?
June 17th, 2008 at 11:55 AM
WCT…because on paper they were an 88 win team makes losing a 7 game lead acceptable? Fuck that..It is not…that is the dumbest argument I have ever heard…Oh it’s ok you blew the biggest divisional lead in history..you weren’t good on paper..than why root for a team…I can just look at the paper and know all..what a crock of shit.
June 17th, 2008 at 12:02 PM
Besides, every team in the National league is an 84-88 win team on paper.
June 17th, 2008 at 12:10 PM
Roman,
Im not a Sabremetrics-guy or anything, but why were the last 10 games more important than the first 152? The only reason he got fired is because his team’s last month happened to be their worst month? Does that make sense? What if you reverse their April and September records and they still end up with the identical record and still miss the playoffs by 1 game, then that makes him a better manager? What if they are 10 games out and rally to win 88 and miss the playoffs by 1? Then he keeps his job? Thats all I’m saying.
June 17th, 2008 at 12:11 PM
I think part of the problem comes in where I feel the Mets have expected Beltran to post numbers like he did in 2006. If Beltran does that, then I think the big three on both teams will wind up very close to similar. But, if you go by his career average, using the stat you’ve been using, his OPS+ over 11 years is 117. Pat Burrell’s over 9 seasons is 121. Beltran is 150, 126, 126, over the last three years, Burrell 122, 127, 167.
I’m not going to make an argument Burrell is better than Beltran. I don’t really even like OPS+, but I’m just trying to use the stat you were using. I just bring it up to say I wouldn’t expect Burrell to continue with an OPS+ of 167.
The Phillies build their team around a concept of getting players with good levels that they can fall back to and if they hit the highpoints, will run with it. The Mets seem to build their team hoping that their players will hit their high and continue on that level. That’s why I’m trying to get across I’m not ripping Beltran, just ripping their GM for thinking he’ll have an OPS+ of 150 every year just because he’s done it before and shown he CAN do it.
June 17th, 2008 at 12:26 PM
WCT..because the emotion of September is more than the emotion of April…because they had to win two more games (and they knew it) These are human beings not 2 dimensional things on a page..and when the opportunity to finish the season was presented they choked it all away…all your stats and rationalization can not justify this…if this is just they way it is how come it doesn’t happen every year? And to say that it is exceptable because they are an 88 win team doesn’t make it so..and when the whole season they were playing 93 win ball and became an 88 win team means they finished below what they were…
June 17th, 2008 at 12:26 PM
i think you bring up a good point with berrell, he is a better player than rollins and more valuable to the team. dont believe the hyp ewith that guy or his undeserved MVP award. and too be fair, he is more valuable a player than reyes as well. looking ahead, reyes is still young, but going for this season or the next, i’d pick burrell over them. and i hate pat burrell.
and i dont think omar messed up by banking on beltran. i dont think he or any mets fan thought he was going to hit at an OPS+ of 150 every year. (well some fans did, but theyre crazy). but we still agree in theory that omar built the team wrong. i think where he messed up more was banking on old vets to come thru with career years like people like jose valentin did in 2006. castillo and alou are bad additions to have to count on for every game. pedro and el duque (hah) were also guys you cant rely on at this point in their career.
June 17th, 2008 at 12:37 PM
Why are you against shortening the season?
i would be bored
June 17th, 2008 at 12:50 PM
@irish – I know, it certainly is riveting when the 10-40 Miami Heat are taking on a powerhouse like the Lakers or Celtics in February and NOBODY on the court seems to give a damn.
If they shortened the season, each game would be much more significant. Hopefully causing the players to try a little harder and making the game more exciting. The urgency/desperation to win in the NCAA men hoops tournament is what makes it so great to watch.
June 17th, 2008 at 2:37 PM
@phatjohnson- you could say the same about MLB and that schedule. 82 games in the NBA isnt that much.
June 17th, 2008 at 3:34 PM
Forgot to mention, they went out of their way to fire the 1st base coach. So they blew that lead in the division because they had too many guys picked off of 1st base?