Two Years, Two Bad Braves Deals
Baseball July 30th. 2008, 12:00pm
The Angels have taken two straight in Boston, go for the sweep tonight, and then head to New York, where newbie Mark Teixeira will squeeze into the lineup. The Braves? Yeesh. Intern Bill on their fall from grace.
The blockbuster deal that happened last night between the Atlanta Braves and the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim is a touch shocking on the surface – you’d think that a player of Mark Teixeira’s caliber would be able to fetch a better return than an average (this year) 1B that lacks power and a pitcher who isn’t Nick Adenhart or Jordan Walden. But the days where a three-month rent-a-player that brought in an enormous return are over, and the Braves organization has earned a little leeway – after all, they’re the ones that put together a string of 14 playoff appearances in 15 years. But as we bury the 2008 Braves, questions arise on what the Mark Teixeira experience in Atlanta taught us, not just on the future of the Braves, but on the question of “going for it†in the 1st place.
At the trading deadline in 2007, Atlanta acquired Mark Teixeira and Ron Mahay from Texas for 1B/C Jarrod Saltalamacchia, SS Elvis Andrus, P Neftali Perez, P Beau Jones, and P Matt Harrison. Saltalamacchia not only has the distinction of having the longest name in major league history, he was also a terrific hitting prospect that was blocked at catcher by perennial all-star Brian McCann.
So, for one year of Mark Teixeira and three months of Ron Mahay, the Braves gave up five very good prospects, each with a solid chance of making a major league impact, only to miss the playoffs twice and lose their stranglehold on the NL East. We don’t know what’s more baffling – that Atlanta got flat-out schooled in a trade (which NEVER used to happen) or that it was Texas that did it, and those are the guys that gave up Chris Young for Adam Eaton.
The Braves, for this year and the near future, are done. They don’t have the talent to match up with the Mets, Phillies or Marlins, and it looks like they’ve started their rebuilding one year too late. The funny thing is that in hindsight, if the Braves had just held on to Salty, moved him to 1st base, and let him continue his development, the Bravos would currently have a 1B who is probably better than Casey Kotchman and they’d still have all those other high-ceiling prospects they gave up in the Teixeira deal.
52 Responses to “Two Years, Two Bad Braves Deals”
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment.

July 30th, 2008 at 12:04 PM
Immediately grading trades involving prospects is dumb.
July 30th, 2008 at 12:04 PM
the number of braves playoffs tickets sold will stay the same regardless of them actually making it
July 30th, 2008 at 12:06 PM
Salty should have been a 1B anyways… he’s way too big to catch for a whole career in the majors.
I agree this was a bad deal in the end, but the regression of other players (looking at you Frenchy and A. Jones) has been what’s killed them the most the past 2 years
July 30th, 2008 at 12:06 PM
Hey, does anybody know of any fantasy leagues opening up with TBL commenters? Preferably yahoo. I’d like to join one.
July 30th, 2008 at 12:06 PM
The Braves might have taken a hit from this Teixeira stuff, but it looks as if they robbed the Detroit Tigers of Jair Jurrjens (and Gorkys Hernandez) for Edgar Renteria. That might not even out the lost prospects from the Teix deal, but it certainly significantly softens the loss. Jurrjens is a top 3 rotation type guy. Hernadez is still developing and is young.
July 30th, 2008 at 12:10 PM
Cue the nasty comments!
July 30th, 2008 at 12:12 PM
nothing nasty from me. solid job intern Bill.
July 30th, 2008 at 12:16 PM
Oh my. Intern Bill wrote something decent. I don’t know what to do.
July 30th, 2008 at 12:16 PM
Brian McCann is also a terrible catcher who should be playing first base. He’s an all star solely on his hitting.
July 30th, 2008 at 12:18 PM
I think the Braves panicked. they wanted to get something for Tex and just jumped at the Angel offer before it was off the table. Not to mention the market for Teixiera was almost non existent.
July 30th, 2008 at 12:19 PM
Nothing from me…he is spot on…I did write about what the Braves needed to do yesterday before the Tex trade, I think the two picks would have been better than Kotchman and a double AA pitcher…I wouldn’t call it a total rebuild..I would call it a retool..they have players, in Escobar, MacCann and Frenchy..and they stole Jurrgens from Detroit..(I wonder if they could have used him?)..but with Hudson having Tonny John Surgery..I think this might be the time (in the offseason) where you go to Larry Jr. and see if he wants to go someplace and get some of those big prospects back
July 30th, 2008 at 12:20 PM
Gonzo…are you serious…McCann can play the position…at least better than Salty could have
July 30th, 2008 at 12:21 PM
Roman, he’s too big. He can’t block a pitch in the dirt and he gets called for catcher’s interference once a week.
July 30th, 2008 at 12:23 PM
I’ve always been a die-hard Braves fan, so I was happy when they traded for Tex, because I’d met the guy and thought he’d be good for the team. And he was, but the Braves are just not good enough to go anywhere with or without him. This new deal sucks for the Braves. I wasn’t old enough to pick up a baseball the last time the Braves went this many years without making the playoffs. I’m starting to get irritated at them.
July 30th, 2008 at 12:27 PM
Rays-Jays first pitch at 12:30? wow, thats some early afternoon baseball for a wednesday
July 30th, 2008 at 12:28 PM
and those are the guys that gave up Chris Young for Adam Eaton.
uummmmmmmm…..you’re forgetting the best part. adrian gonzalez was part of that trade also. nice life texas.
their lineup could easily be:
dh – teixeira
c – laird
1b – gonzalez
2b – kinsler
ss – young
3b – blalock
lf – murphy
cf – hamilton
rf – bradley
that’s fucking disgusting. and almost all home-grown. who’s running that organization?
July 30th, 2008 at 12:32 PM
Why the change of the post’s picture?
Oh, that’s right. While that chick’s behind was extravagent, the ‘bag she was dancing with was the unfunny Bill Engvall. Right. Got it.
July 30th, 2008 at 12:40 PM
You can’t predict lineups based on the reversal of a couple trades. While it looks nice on paper too many other factors are in play.
July 30th, 2008 at 12:40 PM
They could also still have John Danks in their rotation.
July 30th, 2008 at 1:00 PM
i dont think the braves got took as much as they just got unlucky. look at their paythags this year and last year. they were close to making the playoffs last year, and if they did you would have to consider the trade a success, and they been horrendously unlucky this year (based on runs they should have 5 more wins than the marlins).
i think they made a caluculated gamble nd it ended up blowing up in their face, which i think is great. i hope the suck for the next thousand years.
July 30th, 2008 at 1:01 PM
Why is Charlie Leibrant getting snubbed in the above photo?
July 30th, 2008 at 1:06 PM
On the Chris Young trade you left out Adrian Gonzalez as part of the deal going to San Diego.
July 30th, 2008 at 1:10 PM
Didn’t Texas also have Carlos Pena?
This deal only works for Anaheim if they either a) make it to the WOrld Series or b) they resign Teixeira. The rent-a-player deals have not worked well in recent history. Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore, and Brandon Phillips for Bartolo Colon and Freddy Garcia and Carlos Guillen for Randy Johnson being prime examples.
July 30th, 2008 at 1:12 PM
Salty’s line this year: .232/.332/.341 OPS+ 82
Kotchmans line this yr: .287/.327/.448 OPS+ 105
They wouldn’t currently have a better 1st baseman. They would have a worse first baseman who has the potential to be better down the road.
Also, while yes, the Braves gave up a lot of talent to get Tex, the two main pieces in that deal (at least what I remember to be the 2 main pieces, correct me if I’m wrong) were Andrus and Salty. Both players were blocked. Salty was blocked my McCann and Andrus by Renteria (last year), Yunel Escobar and Brent Lillibridge (both years). So when looking at it like that, yes, they gave up talent, but they gave up talent that probably wouldn’t have seen that much time at the major league level. Andrus was the 4th string SS in the organization when he was traded.
July 30th, 2008 at 1:29 PM
Are you completely forgetting the 3 years of team control for Kotchman and the 4-5 years of team control for Marek? Oh that doesn’t support your point so you left it out?
Nice. I see how that works. Still terrible.
July 30th, 2008 at 1:32 PM
Nick..who gives a shit about team controll of a marginal first baseman and a 26 year old AA pitcher? The Angels are trying to win a championship. They are a big market team. Only team who finish in 4th every year care about controllable years
July 30th, 2008 at 1:34 PM
Excuse me..25 on 9/3
July 30th, 2008 at 1:41 PM
From the Braves perspective, it’s a huge deal.
When Teix is making $22 M next year and Kotchman is getting ~$5 M and offering solid production, there’s no fucking way Teix will be $18M better than Kotchman. Considering the league (Teix will be worse in the AL, Kotchman better in the NL), the difference will be less than 1-2 wins over the course of a season. Angels are going to handcuff themselves big time if they sign Teix. If they let him walk, the deal is probably okay.
July 30th, 2008 at 1:43 PM
Nick..I think the Braves were better served keeping Tex and getting the picks…but I doubt the Angels will be too worried about handcuffing themselves…they do bring in major revenue and Moreno has not been afraid to spend for worthy talent
July 30th, 2008 at 1:45 PM
@Roman: Then A-Rod would be playing 3rd. Every team has a budget, even if the line is ever-shifting.
Giving $200M to a 1st baseman is team killing. [Unless it's Pujols.]
Teix is just an average 1B.
July 30th, 2008 at 1:50 PM
average? Cmon, Nick
July 30th, 2008 at 1:50 PM
I think Teix is well above average, Nick. There are maybe 5 1B you’d take over him:
Pujols
Berkman
Morneau
D Lee
Prince Fielder (maybe)
July 30th, 2008 at 1:51 PM
I’m surprised how unimpressive Texeira’s numbers look compared to other 1st basemen. I thought he was better. Going by straight OPS (not OPS+) he ranks 7th among all 1st baseman. So I agree with Nick, $200M is crushing and a poor allocation of resources.
July 30th, 2008 at 1:51 PM
But he’s definitely not worth $150-$200 million.
July 30th, 2008 at 1:52 PM
Keep in mind, Teix is a notorious 2nd half player, .948 post all-star OPS vs. .877 pre All-Star.
July 30th, 2008 at 1:54 PM
Those of you wondering the top 10 by OPS are as follows:
Pujols 1.077
Berkman 1.065
Youk .924
Morneau .919
Giambi .911
Connor Jackson .911
Texeira .902
Adrian Gonzalez .864
Prince .859
DLee .854
July 30th, 2008 at 1:55 PM
That’s true NSR, i didn’t think about that
July 30th, 2008 at 1:56 PM
I don’t think you’d take Giambi, or Jackson over Teix. And Youkilis, who usually fades in the 2nd half is questionable as well. And there’s not a huge difference between .902 and .924.
July 30th, 2008 at 1:58 PM
There are maybe 5 1B you’d take over him:
ryan howard?
You can’t predict lineups based on the reversal of a couple trades. While it looks nice on paper too many other factors are in play.
sure you can. if you’re tom hicks, don’t you tell the fucking GM(s) to settle down in the trade department? i mean, when every single trade you make goes against your favor (except POSSIBLY volquez/hamilton), then you might be on to something.
you don’t think teams review their trades in hindsight? or do they just make the trade and say, that’s the past, fuck it.
your ignorance never ceases to amaze. fukudome for mvp!!!
July 30th, 2008 at 2:03 PM
I don’t know. Take Howard out of that lineup and out of that park and I don’t think he’s as good. Take the incredibly low average and 139 K’s (!!!!) and he’s not much different than Adam Dunn.
July 30th, 2008 at 2:08 PM
If you put Teixiera in PetCo the last few years, he’d be unknown. Arlington reaaaaaaaaaaaally helped him, more than anyone is willing to admit.
July 30th, 2008 at 2:11 PM
@nsr: Dunn’s ops is over 100 points higher than Howards, and he has an ops+ of 138 while Howard’s is 109. Dunn is a better hitter than he gets credit for.
July 30th, 2008 at 2:12 PM
Nick, in 2006 Teix hit 12 HR’s at home and 21 on the road. 2005 was lopsided the other way, and 2004 was pretty even. I don’t think you can attribute his success to the park.
July 30th, 2008 at 2:14 PM
Career road OPS: .861 – fringey good 1B.
Career home OPS: .956 – “elite” 1B.
I can’t?
July 30th, 2008 at 2:16 PM
But usually when a player matures, these things even themselves out, much like a left-handed hitter figuring out how to hit left-handed pitching. So if you look at 2006, his home OPS was .791 while his road OPS was .983. Why didn’t Arlington help him that year?
July 30th, 2008 at 2:17 PM
You are a fucking retard. Hindsight is great, but it doesn’t get you the players back. You want some fucking hindsight? If they have the other guys they don’t trade Volquez, so they don’t have Hamilton. They don’t sign Bradley because he’s a head case (something you guys have in common) and they wouldn’t need the extra offense. Also, I was never in your bitch fight about Granderson vs Fukudome so go back to 8 mile and get the fuck off my jock.
July 30th, 2008 at 2:19 PM
SSS – what’s more informative? Those 300 ABs at home in that single year…or his entire 1600 AB career?
July 30th, 2008 at 2:25 PM
Maturity Nick. I’ll take how he is trending. He started off his rookie season absolutely unable to hit away from home. As he has matured he has adapted, like many hitters do.
July 30th, 2008 at 2:30 PM
Oh, and last year he his numbers skyrocketed after leaving Arlington and going to Atlanta (more HR’s and RBI in a third less games).
July 30th, 2008 at 2:43 PM
You do realize that the Braves front office is very good at scouting and evaluating prospects and ballplayers right?
Just because you read BA and some rnakings doesn’t mean those prospects are actually good.
July 30th, 2008 at 2:43 PM
Nick..your A Rod argument is a false argument…He never gave anyone a chance to bid…He let rumors swirls and went running back to the Yankees…He never even made it to Thanksgiving…he wasn’t going anywhere
July 30th, 2008 at 2:44 PM
One other thing, you can’t include Tex in that stupid ass lineup because he said he wasn’t going to sign there. You might be able to figure that out since they fucking traded him mid-season.