Is the Heisman Trophy Graham Harrell’s to Lose?
College Football November 10th. 2008, 2:30pm
Tim Tebow’s the favored horse who trailed big early, but kicked in the turbo booster going into the final turn and is charging hard. Colt McCoy’s a victim of this play. Sam Bradford’s going to ask historians if he’s the first QB from one of the major conferences who played for a Top 5 team, threw for over 3,000 yards and 40 TDs, and wasn’t one of the top three vote-getters. (Fear not, OU fans; Bradford’s NFL potential, detailed below, is off the charts.)
But if Graham Harrell beats Oklahoma, the Heisman’s his, right? And will this be the first time in recorded history that the Heisman, essentially, was decided by one play? If Crabtree doesn’t score with :01 left, McCoy’s unbeaten and still on top, right?
Might as well take a moment to talk about Harrell’s NFL prospects. We know everyone loves Georgia’s Matthew Stafford, but is anyone else a bit surprised that ESPN’s Todd McShay – think Pippen to Kiper’s Jordan – has Harrell sixth on his list of QBs? McShay currently has him behind the following: Bradford, Stafford, Mark Sanchez, KSU’s Josh Freeman and Louisville’s Hunter Cantwell. (Colt McCoy didn’t even make the Top 10.) Does everyone still think Harrell’s just a system QB? If this garbage keeps up, we’re going to have to pull for Harrell the way we did for Colt Brennan.
As for Vikings fans, if Sam Bradford’s there in the high teens, he’s got to be the pick, right?
107 Responses to “Is the Heisman Trophy Graham Harrell’s to Lose?”
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November 10th, 2008 at 2:32 PM
Yes
November 10th, 2008 at 2:33 PM
A Positive K reference? You’ve redeemed yourself, Raj.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:33 PM
you cant take a qb in the first round when he has never taken a snap from under center in college. until the nfl starts running nothing but the spread, TT quarterbacks will be system products. i guarantee people said the same shit about kingsbury and symons
November 10th, 2008 at 2:34 PM
Harrell is a system QB, just as Brennan was, and probably won’t make a great NFL QB, but that is not what the Heisman Trophy is for. It is awarded to the most outstanding player in NCAA football.
That player, this year, is Nick Sheridan IMO.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:36 PM
could harrell be the best pure quarterback in the country? sure, who the fuck knows who it is (other than: not tebow). but for the purpose of scouting them for the nfl you can’t get a good reading on a spread QB. maybe it changes when he works out for teams and does combine shit, maybe not. he will get a chance and if he can adapt, good for him.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:36 PM
think Jud Buechler to Kiper’s Jordan
November 10th, 2008 at 2:37 PM
Absolutely true. And it’s not even the spread per se, but just being in the shotgun almost 100% of the time.
I don’t think McCoy will amount to much in the NFL. Like Leinart, he seems unable to take a hit.
Something tells me Bradford isn’t going to be that great either. Oklahoma QB’s don’t throw a lot of timing routes. It’s a lot of throwing the ball up and letting your big, fast WR’s go get it. Much the same with Florida QB’s of old.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:37 PM
ROTFLMAO!
when’s the last time the heisman went to a player on a shit team, paul hornung?
if harrell collapses, it will go to mccoy.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:38 PM
Who isn’t a “system QB”?
Also, look at the list of QB’s leading each division in the AFC. If I were an NFL GM, I build my offensive and defensive lines before I go after my QB.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:40 PM
Who is Nick Sheridan, never heard of him.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:42 PM
the spread option is so foreign to an nfl offense it’s not even funny. in a spread option the quarterback doesn’t even scan the whole field. he generally checks two potential routes/targets.
for a spread option quarterback to succeed in the nfl, he has to be deprogrammed and then reprogrammed which takes years. most owners aren’t that patient.
i heard a guy (can’t remember his name) who was a run-n-gun qb in college, had a cup of coffee in the nfl and is now a small college coach say a run-n-shoot quarterback read defenses more thoroughly than a spread option qb.
i know old man bowden called the spread option “a quarterback standing in a shotgun running the wishbone.” that’s a pretty close analogy.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:42 PM
Holliday to the A’s
November 10th, 2008 at 2:42 PM
Josh Freeman? That guy sucks.
The Heisman is Harrel’s right now. If Tech loses to OU, then everyone is back in play.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:43 PM
who is nick sheridan???? who ISNT nick sheridan!
November 10th, 2008 at 2:43 PM
1. On Harrell and the Heisman: Beat #1 Texas, #9 Okie State and #4 OU back-to-back-to-back and I’m trying to see how you deny him. The outside chink? Would voters split their votes between him and Michael Crabtree?
2. On Bradford and the NFL: Right now, I’d say Top 5 pick. A lot will depend on whether or not Tebow, McCoy and some of those juniors decide to come out. If it’s just him and Stafford, there’s going to be a rush for them. After all, we got Detroit, Kansas City and San Francisco all needing QB and all ahead of Minnesota.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:44 PM
Um even if Crabtree doesn’t score there against Texas, Texas Tech could still kick a field goal to win.
But who cares about facts.
As for Harrell, he has the arm strength to be a good QB, the thing that I think kills him is that he has all day to throw. How does he fare with pressure? We’ll never know because he’s never pressured..I think Harell can be good but until we see him under duress I don’t think he can be considered a first round selection.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:45 PM
oh my GOD im not going to read the ‘peter pan’ article on hansbrough. he wants to play before he grows up? SHUT THE FUCK UP
November 10th, 2008 at 2:45 PM
Holliday to the A’s
Lie!
November 10th, 2008 at 2:45 PM
Since when is being on the team with the #1 ranking a prerequisite to winning the Heisman? Harrell could throw for 400 yards and 4 scores and lose to OU and still win it.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:46 PM
I scoff at thee.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:47 PM
I think he’s the most physically gifted QB in college football, but he makes at 3 or 4 bone-headed plays every game. Still, it’s going to be hard to pass on that talent.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:48 PM
well espn cant confirm the trade because their breaking news is currently the shocking SHOCKING breaking news that soto and longoria won ROTY. they cant possibly bump that scoop.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:49 PM
TSH-What a fucking waste.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:49 PM
I am with Mike NYC. Don’t forget that Tebow won last year on a team with 3 losses.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:49 PM
also, this award should clearly go to armanti edwards
November 10th, 2008 at 2:50 PM
isn’t bradford just a sophomore?
November 10th, 2008 at 2:51 PM
NSR -
Freeman has the body, but yeah, he can make some really bad mistakes. The good thing in his corner is that the NFL will probably assume he hasn’t been coached right. And they’d be right.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:51 PM
Sure Tech won on that last second TD, but did anyone notice who caught the pass, and made the difficult part of the play? How come Crabtree is getting no heisman love? Without Crabtree, Harrall doesn’t even get a whisper.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:51 PM
Oh and for all the gambling degenerates such as myself. Oklahoma has gone over the total in their last 5 games and in every game except TCU and Baylor…They are gambling gold.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:52 PM
Very true.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:53 PM
Whoever voted for Votto is a clown
November 10th, 2008 at 2:54 PM
eh. sure hes their best receiver but he has thrown touchdowns to nine other players
November 10th, 2008 at 2:55 PM
I think he is a redshirt sophomore, so he has been out of high school for 3 years.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:57 PM
Third year sophomore
November 10th, 2008 at 2:57 PM
I might be wrong on that though. Somebody told me the other day why he is eligible but I forgot.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:57 PM
dollars to donuts gio gonzalez is part of the holliday trade
just makes zero sense
November 10th, 2008 at 2:59 PM
You are right dwaltlhi, and also too speedy for me
November 10th, 2008 at 3:00 PM
That Holliday trade is baffling. Just completely pointless. Seems out of the norm for the A’s, doesn’t it?
November 10th, 2008 at 3:02 PM
@ moleman, the TDs to 9 other QBs is a system thing. Crabtree is by far the most talented player in D1 right now, and on one of the best teams. Should get just as much, if not more, love than Harrell.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:04 PM
The problem with Crabtree is that, as much as anything, the Heisman is about stats, numbers. And Crabtree’s numbers, while very good, are far from mind-blowing numbers required by today’s standards.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:04 PM
Billy-This will be Matts last year on his contract. Nobody wanted to give up prospects for him. The A’s on the otherhand just dont give a fuck.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:06 PM
how can you use the system argument for some players on a team but not another player on the same team?
November 10th, 2008 at 3:07 PM
You’re right, Tampa. Just seems weird for an organization that covets prospects like they do. Whatevs, as long as the O’s sign Tex, the world could end and I would be happy. Thus, it won’t happen.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:07 PM
I agree that Crabtree needs to be included in the discussion. I know he probably won’t get it, but damn that guy is putting up some impressive numbers also.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:11 PM
Agreed, moleman. The system argument doesn’t make sense to me when it comes to talking about the Heisman. Every team has a system (except Tennessee).
However, talking about the type of system and how that tranlates to a QB’s potential success in the NFL is ok. Too often the argument ends up as a hybrd Heisman/NFL success thing, but I think it is legit to question Harrel’s NFL future based on the offense he runs.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:14 PM
A system QB is a QB who is in a gimmicky (non-Pro Style offense) in college. Most of them translate poorly to the pros. Pro Style college QB’s translate better to the pros. this should have nothing to do with who wins the Heisman. It is not an NFL prediction trophy.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:16 PM
I still think Tebow should win it. 1) I am tired of tOSU laying claim to Archie Griffin to having the only two-time Heisman winner. 2) He is putting up gaudy numbers against better defenses. I think Harrell, McCoy and Bradford are all playing fucking amazing though.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:22 PM
@Mags
But what the hell is pro style offense anymore? No NFL offense just lines up with 5 linemen, qb, te, x, y, fullback and tailback all game. Granted each NFL team has their base offense, but most of the game they are running different packages (combinations) of personnel, formations and plays.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:23 PM
yeah but none of them only run the shotgun and have amazing offensive lines, especially the ones that need a qb
November 10th, 2008 at 3:24 PM
McDyess waived by Nuggets
30 days until the Pistons get him back.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:24 PM
System QB’s rock in the NFL!
/Sexy Rexy
November 10th, 2008 at 3:26 PM
what the hell is this supposed to mean?
i swear to god, some of the reasons people hate OSU are just ridiculous.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:30 PM
@KC – you sly little fucker you. Tennessee does too have a system…it’s called losing to everybody.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:30 PM
That isn’t the main reason, just one of the many supporting arguments.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:36 PM
Andre Ware was a system QB(run & shoot) that played in the same system in the NFL. Had Barry Sanders at RB and he still sucked. I swear, he and David Klingler ruined it for all who followed. You have to line up under center at least half the time for the NFL to consider you a top pick. Either that or just be a winner like Vince Young…
November 10th, 2008 at 3:37 PM
@cbg
Seriously? Of course NFL offenses run different WR TE formations, but the basics are the same as the Pro Style basics. The QB is used and trained for four years to run an offense similar to a basic NFL offense. When you have a System QB from college you have to first strip them of what they have been trained to do for four years and then build them back (knowledge wise) into what you would have had if you just would have drafted a decent pro style QB.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:41 PM
A pro style offense is a basic under center snap, three to seven step drop, RB and/or FB in the back field, route reading formation. All Pros have variations (shotgun formations, no backs formations) but they are just packages to be run with more frequency if they are working well in a particular game.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:43 PM
I hate them just because of the “thee” they always put in front of “Ohio State University”. Is that a good enough reason?
November 10th, 2008 at 3:46 PM
I have several reasons I hate OSU, I just think stating them repeatedly is beating a dead horse. But the ones above work.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:46 PM
no.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:46 PM
The Patriots last year were the closest thing to a Run and Shoot, and it worked pretty well.
As for the system argument, it is the reason for Harrall’s gawdy stats. If you put Crabtree in any system, he would likely still have gawdy numbers. I am not saying Crabtree should win it, but he should be in the convo. Clearly, he is the more talented member of the pair. It is like when Leinart won it instead of Bush.
Look at Tebow’s system, drop back, run up the middle from the 2 yard line. Of course he scores a lot of TDs. Tebow is a joke, and shouldn’t be mentioned in the Heisman race this year. He won last year by default.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:47 PM
i hope you all get the clap.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:48 PM
Oddly enough, I said this to my boss today. Word for word.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:48 PM
How about tOSU being perpetually overrated, then getting smoked against a good opponent? Is that reason enough to hate them?
November 10th, 2008 at 3:50 PM
sigh…
November 10th, 2008 at 3:55 PM
How about having to watch tOSU throttle some asshole Big Ten team at 3:30 than watching a real game between ranked teams.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:57 PM
i mean, i was being cordial and joke-y before, and now it’s just pile on OSU time? wtf?
November 10th, 2008 at 3:58 PM
But, there is only one Ohio Stae University in the world. Do you really need the “theeeee” in front of it? Can I at least hate the buckeye as a mascot?
November 10th, 2008 at 3:59 PM
no we don’t need the “theee” and it’s pretentious, but it’s stupid to give a shit about stuff like that.
and how can you hate the buckeye? it’s unique and it’s the state flower or nut or bird or some shit like that.
November 10th, 2008 at 4:01 PM
can i hate them because of all the colored players the have?
November 10th, 2008 at 4:01 PM
It can’t be pile on OSU time unless Maggs is here.
November 10th, 2008 at 4:01 PM
*they
fuck me
November 10th, 2008 at 4:03 PM
@Mags
If there is what you are calling a “system” QB in college (In my opinion every QB is in a system, college or pro and each [good] system emphasizes the QB strengths and minimizes their weaknesses) who has a quick release and the ability to read coverage, versus a qb in what you are calling a pro style system, who doesn’t have those skills \ intangibles I would take the “system” qb because he projects to be a better NFL QB.
November 10th, 2008 at 4:03 PM
Albeit I think the buckeye is dumb, this is hilarious.
November 10th, 2008 at 4:05 PM
Graham Harrell a system quarterback? You guys are nuts!
That’s like saying Ty Detmer is a system quarterback.
November 10th, 2008 at 4:07 PM
It’s an acorn. The mighty acorns sounds more imposing than the buckeyes.
/the Ohio State Mighty Acorns!!! Fear the Tree!!!
November 10th, 2008 at 4:09 PM
A tree killed my mother, you jerk.
November 10th, 2008 at 4:09 PM
no way…buckeye is poisonous. you know, if you swallow us, you’re fucked. i mean,
you could just not swallow us and everythingIF YOU DO…WATCH THE FUCK OUT.November 10th, 2008 at 4:12 PM
I still get indigestion…Bastards!
November 10th, 2008 at 4:13 PM
too soon, Billy?
November 10th, 2008 at 4:18 PM
Maybe we can hate them cause when tOSU actually gets billed for a prime time game, and they get throttled.
November 10th, 2008 at 4:21 PM
Nah, I made a joke about trees this morning. I think I’m coping.
November 10th, 2008 at 4:23 PM
that sentence needs some work, but i hear what you’re saying.
but if that’s your criteria for hating a school, do you hate georgia as well? they’ve had two primetime games this year, and both of them were blowouts.
November 10th, 2008 at 4:27 PM
um spencer, you must have forgot that georgia plays in the sec, and thus those blowouts dont count
November 10th, 2008 at 4:31 PM
+1
November 10th, 2008 at 4:37 PM
OK. In the NFL they (almost unanimously) use what is called a “Pro Style” offense in college, because in the pros you can’t use a gimmecky “shotgun throw 80-20″ or “get a player in space” or “read option” system because they don’t work (players are too talented, too fast). So if you take a QB from a system that ran something like a “shotgun throw 80-20″ in college and try to convert him to the “Pro Style” set, it will take more time and in some cases never turn out well. his footwork will need correction, his read angles will need correction, his timing will need correction… all of this will undoubtedly need correcting polishing with any college QB, but if you look at the college QB’s who can make an immediate impact they are almost always “Pro Style” QB’s in college. Ryan, Flacco, Big Ben, etc..
not gimmicky QB’s.
November 10th, 2008 at 4:39 PM
BTW I hate osu because it was what I was bred to do. It was what I was trained to do. It was what I was born to do.
November 10th, 2008 at 4:40 PM
correct me if im wrong, but flacco and matt ryan both operated out of shotgun heavy spread offenses (not zone read or BS like that, but just multiple WR sets).
you’re spot on about mechanics and reading, tho.
November 10th, 2008 at 4:43 PM
I love seeing Spencer playing defense.
It reminds me of OSU “great” Shawn Springs playing defense against Michigan in 1996 when he was on his ass as Brian Griese hit Tai Streets for a 70 yard TD to win 13-9 in Columbus. Classic.
November 10th, 2008 at 4:44 PM
savor it while you can…
November 10th, 2008 at 4:50 PM
Can we hate tOSU because they get bogus PI calls to win national championships?
November 10th, 2008 at 4:53 PM
just because the flag was late doesn’t mean it wasn’t PI…because it was PI.
what college team do you root for? im sure they’ve got some easy targets too.
November 10th, 2008 at 4:55 PM
November 10th, 2008 at 4:55 PM
@Mags – Your logic on NFL offenses, QBs and black and white gravatar makes me think you are stuck in a time where football was played in leather helmets.
Up until 8 weeks ago the Wildcat was thought to be gimmicky and now almost every team is running it. The Jets have run spread packages with Brad Smith. Tom Brady ran a “pro style” offense at UM and last season with the Patriots ran a high (god only knows what it was)% of plays from the gun and 4 and 5 wide sets.
What I am trying to say is the system the qb ran in college has less to do with how a quarterback projects to the NFL than does his skill set.
November 10th, 2008 at 4:56 PM
Ryan I know was out of a Pro Style because that is what they run at BC. Flacco to tell you the truth I don’t really know. I was just going by body size and athletic ability, figuring at Deleware they ran the Pro Style.
November 10th, 2008 at 4:56 PM
forgot to take off the quote. Sorry.
November 10th, 2008 at 4:57 PM
This is the one thing I will defend tOSU on. Miami got 3 calls that went their way on their last drive. The officiating, much like today’s, was all around awful that game.
November 10th, 2008 at 4:58 PM
neither is losing by 14 (i.e. NC game against LSU).
but that’s just looking at the box scores. georgia was incredibly lucky to make it look that close…like it or not. plus it helped that bama was in conservative, grind mode and not looking to make it worse.
im not knocking georgia at all just using them as an example as to why someone’s argument sucked.
November 10th, 2008 at 4:59 PM
not to mention that that one call didnt win the game for osu, miami had their shot and lost
November 10th, 2008 at 4:59 PM
That is what they ran their with Ryan, because that system fit his abilities the best. With Crane they are running a mix of everything.
November 10th, 2008 at 4:59 PM
@cgb
I fucking 25. And if you think Pro Style college QB’s don’t make better NFL QB’s than gimmick offense college QB’s than I will point you toward Andre Ware, Ty Detmer, Vince Young, Seneca Wallace, Joey Harrington, Colt Brennen, etc. but you are free to believe whatever you want, but please refrain from telling me I don’t know anything about football because I have a black and white avatar image… because that is profound logic.
November 10th, 2008 at 5:00 PM
@dwaltlhi – Yeah I agree with Spencer096 in their two biggest games this year Georgia took it up the ass. Alabama put that shit on cruise control in the second half.
November 10th, 2008 at 5:00 PM
cgb and mags…can we just agree that drafting QB’s is a crapshoot? nobody knows what the fuck they’re getting unless it’s john elway or peyton manning or someone of that ilk.
November 10th, 2008 at 5:01 PM
No argument there.
November 10th, 2008 at 5:02 PM
The percentages of that crap shoot are better for you if you pick a Pro Style college QB in the draft. That is my whole point. Sure it is a crap shoot either way, but do you want 50-50 odds or do you want 80-20? That is my whole point.
November 10th, 2008 at 5:03 PM
@Mags – I am also 25 and again you are missing my point. Running a pro style offense in college doesn’t mean shit if you cannot read coverage, have a limp dick for an arm, have cinder blocks for feet, etc… The quarterback in college who has a better understanding of the game, more skills and the intangibles regardless of whatever system he ran will always project better to the NFL, because he knows The Game, the Position and not just any one system.
November 10th, 2008 at 5:18 PM
Heath Shuler sucked, Peyton Manning didn’t. Same offense, good 50-50 balance
Wuerffel, Shane Matthews, The Bachelor, etc. all sucked equally. good %100 balance.
Same with Ryan Leaf/Bledsoe(50-50) and Klingler/Ware(pure garbage). Like Maggs said, it’s a crapshoot but I’ll take my chances with a team QB that plays a more pro style.