Ugh, the Cardinals vs. College Football Debate
College Football, NFL January 23rd. 2009, 2:45pm
Really like SI’s Stewart Mandel. Respect Peter King’s football knowledge. A lot of folks swear by the Football Outsiders. But their collective “what does the NFL regular season mean?” question surrounding the Arizona Cardinals improbable trip to the Super Bowl is, in a word, dumb.
That, my friends, is exactly what college football’s powers-that-be fear most. Theirs is the only sport where every single game truly matters, where you can’t afford to take your foot off the peddle for even one week. (Just ask USC.) Were there a playoff, the Gators — which, like the Cardinals, clinched their division early (Nov. 8th) — could have tanked their last three regular-season games without jeopardizing their title hopes in the slightest.
Disagree 100 percent with this. Why? Homefield advantage in college football is much more significant than it is in the NFL. If the Gators tanked their final three games, and college football had an 8-team playoff …
a) the Gators would not have qualified for the playoffs by virtue of a loss to Alabama
b) if they had qualified for the playoffs anyway, the Gators would have had a terrible seed and might have had to play at Oklahoma or whoever was No. 1 in the first round
c) the Gators would have had to win another road game to reach the Finals
How many home losses for USC in the last five years? What is Bob Stoops’ home record at Oklahoma? From 2000-2006, 10 college football teams averaged one home loss or fewer; only one NFL team went unbeaten at home in 2008, one in 2007, and two in 2006.
And speaking of hotness, weren’t the Colts the “hottest” team heading into the NFL playoffs with nine wins in a row?
The mere thought that college football’s regular season is the “most important” is an absolute joke. A myth, concocted by a bunch of rich old white guys who want to continue to reap all the profits in the name of “history.”
Trying shoveling that regular season junk on Utah, and other undefeated teams who never got a crack at the title. Tell that to Texas, and every other 1-loss team in the last few years who should have had a shot at the Championship.
Take the college hoops regular season. The more you lose, the lower seed you get in March, and the tougher the road to the Final 4 becomes. Or, maybe you just miss the tournament altogether. Tell the Jets and Tampa Bay that the regular season means nothing. All each of those needed was another win in November or December and they’d have made the playoffs. Ditto for the Patriots. The regular season of the NBA and MLB carry less weight because they play a million games, but in the other college basketball and NFL, there’s just no room for error.
The regular season is important. Period.
Can we stop with the college football regular season charade?
50 Responses to “Ugh, the Cardinals vs. College Football Debate”
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January 23rd, 2009 at 2:53 PM
Hey we need those rich old white guys. They’re stuck with the burden of making sure the trains run on time!
January 23rd, 2009 at 2:54 PM
Who are the “rich old white guys” you always speak of? University presidents? Corporate CEO’s who sponsor the games?
January 23rd, 2009 at 2:55 PM
Right, like FLA and OU this year.
Or LSU last year … didn’t they lose in Novemeber?
And FLA the year before then.
It’s a good thing those teams never lost any games. They would have never had a shot at the title.
January 23rd, 2009 at 2:57 PM
And who makes sure that my milk is cold in the morning so that I can have a good bowl of Raisin Bran? That’s right, those “rich old white guys”!
January 23rd, 2009 at 2:57 PM
1. You cannot question Mandel, the man is unequivocally the best college football writer alive right now.
2. Home field, really? There is no chance these mythical playoff games would be played in home teams stadiums. The day you get Fla to play in Michigan in January, I’ll eat my hat. Ever been to State College in late Dec/early Jan, its a ghost town. Bars and restaurants dont even open.
January 23rd, 2009 at 2:59 PM
rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble
January 23rd, 2009 at 2:59 PM
Same record as the Cards. I believe the Jets destroyed Arizona H2H. So, maybe, “The latter part of the regular season is important. Period.” But Arizona lost 4 of their last 6 regular season games, so I guess that’s not true, either.
January 23rd, 2009 at 2:59 PM
Its not that you can’t win a title (LSU/FLA) with a loss (or two), its that you put your fate in the hands of voters/computers. If you go undefeated in a BCS conference you’re in, lose and you no longer can complain.
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:00 PM
TBL, you’re just wrong here. A +1 format is the only type of playoff that keeps every week important. And Mandel deals with your point about the Bucs and the Jets. A playoff system keeps the drama at the end of the season and only about who is getting, in this case, the 6th spot, rather than having a year of drama where you know a loss could end any chances at a title.
I just love how guys like Wilbon and Kornheiser, who are fair weather cfb fans at best, make such a stink about a playoff. Most real fans I know, as in fanatics, want a +1 or bowls.
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:04 PM
I’d call myself die hard and I want a playoff
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:07 PM
If you go undefeated in a BCS conference you’re in, lose and you no longer can complain.
The 2004 Auburn Tigers/War Eagles/Wombat/Whateverthefucktheyare would like a word with you.
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:08 PM
+1 is the way to go.
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:10 PM
A fight to the death is the way to go.
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:11 PM
i was just going along with their ‘copy the nfl playoffs’ format.
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:11 PM
My problem with a +1 is that some years, it’s not needed.
If undefeated 12-0 beats undefeated 12-0, that should be the end of it. They shouldn’t then have to play 11-1 or 11-2 #3.
If there’s a way to only use the +1 if necessary, then I can see it making sense. Probably wouldn’t work for TV purposes, though.
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:12 PM
Short-term fix: keep all Big Ten, ACC and Big East teams out of the BCS.
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:12 PM
Plus one does not solve anything. Who would you choose this year? SC or Utah.
They should have an eight team playoff with the conference champs from the Big 12, Big 10, SEC, Pac Ten, ACC and the other three spots are decided by a committee.
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:12 PM
and Fraud-12.
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:13 PM
I’d like to see a +1. And also, where were the “rich old white guys†this morning when I didn’t have any milk for my honey nut cheerios?
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:15 PM
Nick…i thought that was a flag football conference. i mean, i haven’t seen any defense from there actually make a tackle all season.
/big 12 = joke
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:15 PM
KC, I never said it was perfect. The pats beat the Cards by 40 and finished with a better record, hows that workin out.
Clown, I was just going to say my points about weather are worthless because its just going to be USC, Texas, OU, and the 5 top SEC teams every year. Color me excited.
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:15 PM
this is a fair opinion to have. but factually, i have not seen the argument that says every week is “less important” with a playoff. you still have to GET TO the playoffs, right?
the cardinals still had to get to the NFL playoffs; it helps that the league sucked ass.
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:16 PM
The issue is fairness. Even if you accept the argument that a small playoff format would make some regular season games less important (I don’t), does that matter more to you than a true, justly earned national championship in which every team is given a fair shot?
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:16 PM
you think milk grows on trees? those “rich old white guys” were in the bathroom with a victoria’s secret catalog and a bottle of jergens making your milk for you. it’s not their fault you drink way too much of their shit too quickly.
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:18 PM
Stating how dominant college teams have been at home does not help your case for a playoff. No way colleges would agree to having to play “road” games in a playoff. How would you determine who gets the home games anyway, some type of BCS type formula would have to be used. As you said, the playoff would be meaningless since those teams are practically unbeatable at home.
If a playoff were played at neutral bowl sites there is no way enough fans of the teams could travel to all 3 or 4 games. And the last thing college football wants is for the championship game to be like the Super Bowl with no fans of the actual teams there and a bunch of business people and media who don’t even care about the game.
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:20 PM
but your system would allow an ACC or big east team to get into the playoffs every year…and some years that’d conflict with an SEC, or other big conference team, that goes 11-1 and loses in the champ game or has some other equally worthy resume over the ACC/BE counterpart. this isn’t fair (just like the pats shouldn’t have been left out this year in the NFL).
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:22 PM
What are the odds that ESPN puts together a four team preseason tourney?
For example:
SC vs. Boise State
Florida vs. Utah
the winners and losers play each other two (maybe one) weeks later at a neutral site.
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:23 PM
Conference championship games blow, too. They exist to make money for the conference, have nothing to do with tradition, and they shouldn’t even enter into a conversation about determining a fair champion.
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:27 PM
TBL, Let’s say we do an 8 team playoff. SC has already clinched the Pac 10 and they’re playing UCLA at the end of the season, they may very well rest their starters against their hardcore rivals because the game is suddenly not as important. And that would suck. Further, in most playoff scenarios I’ve seen, it’d be 8 teams(6 conference champions with two at-large). Now, there are all kinds of circumstances where out of conference games just aren’t as important because conference games are what get you to the playoffs. Even this year, Florida had the East in the bag fairly early (I think), so they’d have been resting dudes and mailing it big time down the stretch. There are just too many ways that games can become less important. And really, college football is doing great from a fan interest standpoint. I don’t beleive that the system neeeds this drastic overhaul that could actually hurt the game I love so much.
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:27 PM
Perhaps, but what I dont like about Conference Championship games are that they aren’t universal. Its unfair for some teams to be able to play another game while others aren’t given the right. I know they take the chance of losing the game but it would be nice if every conference had a championship game or none of them did.
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:28 PM
KC, I never said it was perfect. The pats beat the Cards by 40 and finished with a better record, hows that workin out.
Coop, I know what you meant. Just having some fun.
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:31 PM
Wasn’t that in the article. Florida could have taken that last 3 weeks of the season off and still won the SEC title game.
I don’t see how a playoff makes things fair. Matchups and schedule are much more important than how good a team actually is. I would argue Baltimore is much better than Arizona, but they had to play Tenn and Pitt, as opposed to Atlanta and Carolina.
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:40 PM
Listen to Mtothe P. He is smart on this issue.
Everytime this comes up, I say the same thing, there would need some sort of standardized scheduling for a play-off to have some degree of fairness. That would lead to some sort of super conference of football playing schools, and would not be a desired result. College football is fine, college football is making money. You may be able to argue that every game does not matter, but every single game matters more than any other sport.
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:40 PM
Whoa that hurt spence.
//sincere
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:49 PM
im sorry?
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:54 PM
Tell that to Auburn.
January 23rd, 2009 at 4:04 PM
I guess I just don’t understand why a format that is used in every other major sport, can’t be used in college football. Why is the game of college football so different than any other sport?
January 23rd, 2009 at 4:09 PM
A plus one is still what I want as a college football fan. That being said NickP brought up the point that some years it won’t be needed, but I think on the whole it will be needed more often than not. Int the 10 years of the BCS a plus one would have caused contoversy in 1998 and 2005 as there were distinct champions in those years. But remember a plus one would align everyone up with their original bowls and NOT pair up the BCS 1 and 2 in a bowl until the week after Jan 1 unless they were slated to meet. So this year it would have been something like
Rose- USC-Penn State
Fiesta- Oklahoma-Texas
Sugar- Florida- Utah
Orange- VaTech/Cincinnati
Cotton (You have to add one and I just picked a random bowl)- Texas Tech-Alabama
After those games everyone gets re-ranked. and then the national title game happens. I think that’s more than fair. Utah gets their crack, Oklahoma and Texas figure it out. Of course USC would probably have a gripe but their body of work would be factored in at this point to make evaluations easier.
January 23rd, 2009 at 4:54 PM
While the comparisons to college football are sort of dumb, I do think the NFL regular season are a crock and this year the playoffs just happen to be also.
The NFL regular season is rigged more so than any other league in sports, yet no one cares… probably because it makes it easier to gamble on the games.
January 23rd, 2009 at 4:55 PM
College football’s problem is that there are too many teams playing a game that takes too much time to have an efficient and fair playoff.
January 23rd, 2009 at 5:01 PM
…what the fuck happened to this site….
January 23rd, 2009 at 5:04 PM
where did Al go?
January 23rd, 2009 at 5:05 PM
Agreed. Most proponents of a playoff didn’t go to a football school and don’t understand college football. Tradition is important to college football, a “fair” national champion is not. Like Mandel has said many times before the bowls are a reward for a good season not for determining a national champion. College football has never been about a “fair” national champion. I agree that the tradional bowl tie ins followed by a plus one game is the best solution. It would preserve the importance of the regular season and the big bowls as well.
January 23rd, 2009 at 5:06 PM
Please stop fucking with college football…it doesn’t need to become NFL-lite. I’d rather have a 5 way split national championship than watch a college championship game filled with corporate stooges that maybe get above a whisper if someone runs a punt back for a TD.
January 23rd, 2009 at 5:07 PM
Where did the interview go
January 23rd, 2009 at 5:11 PM
It’s not like the NFL playoffs are perfect. I’d be a lot happier if they changed it to where if a wildcard team has a better record than a division champion, they host the wildcard game. Also, I think the no. 1 seed should have its choice of which of the two wildcard game winners it wants to face. I bet Tennessee would’ve taken San Diego over Baltimore in a heartbeat. I also don’t think the Cardinals would’ve beaten the G-Men in the Meadowlands. I think that would restore more meaning to winning in the regular season.
Oh, and I’d be in favor of a plus one. I like the bowls. I don’t want a full playoff. It’s not like college football is broken and needs to be fixed. That’s just the familiar refrain of fans who don’t really follow it that closely.
January 23rd, 2009 at 5:41 PM
I am so tired of the “tradition is more important” statement. No, it isn’t. I want product on the field. I am not paying the outrageous ticket prices so I can see the fucking hedges at Sanford Stadium and listen to Larry Munson. I am paying for the product on the field. There is no better thought than that of watching the best teams duke it out with each other until there is only one left standing. You would be hard pressed to find someone that has more passion for college football than I do. I grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska through the heyday and graduated from The University of Georgia, that being said, the system is broken and needs to be fixed. Period!
January 23rd, 2009 at 6:05 PM
Here’s a few words of advice for the football “gurus”- you don’t like it? deal with it. It’s happening and there’s not a goddamn thing you can do about it. What’s King gonna say if the Cardinals actually win the Super Bowl(hey; it could happen)? That the playoff format should be reorganized? Fucking bullshit…
/yes, I’m a Cardinals fan. Deal with it.
January 23rd, 2009 at 6:44 PM
If the Cards win the Superbowl, the NFL should adopt the BCS system.
/serious?
January 25th, 2009 at 12:57 PM
i think when you have over 100 teams competing for 2 championship spots, the regular season (and strength of schedule) matter a hell of lot more than 32 teams competing for 12 playoff spots. thats just common sense. the cardinals can lose almost half their games and make the championship game. you can at most, lose 2 games in CFB and then they have to be absurdly lucky to make the championship game. so the stakes of each regular season game are MUCH bigger in CFB. that idea cant be debated.
the idea that a CFB playoff would destroy the regular season, however, is probably over stated, but it would definitely make a difference. personally im in favor of keeping the bowls and not instituting a playoff or +1 system. i understand the appeal but i think in practice it would be no less that shit show than what you see now.