The Patriots, Pioli, Collusion, KC and Cassel
NFL March 2nd. 2009, 9:00am
According to ESPN’s Chris Mortensen, the Broncos offered the Patriots (in a three-way deal) the No. 12 pick in the draft for Matt Cassel. But they passed and instead got the 34th pick from the Chiefs for Cassel and LB Mike Vrabel.
Say what?
You don’t even need to be a conspiracy theorist to think something sketchy is going on here – isn’t the goal of all trades to acquire as much as you can while giving away as little as possible? Does Belichick have something against Denver? Or is something more nefarious afoot? (Admit it – after the whole Spygate mess, Belichick can’t be trusted.)
The only logical explanations we can conjure up: 1) Vrabel was a salary dump and 2) the Chiefs were first to the table and the deal with the Broncos could have gotten messy because two other teams were involved, and if it fell apart, KC may have pulled its offer and then the Patriots would have had nothing except a terrible media backlash for failing to trade their backup QB and one of its most popular defensive players.
Interesting roll of the dice by the Patriots: Brady comes off a significant injury with no backup. How long will his Super Bowl-winning window be open? Montana won his first in 1982 and last in 1990; Troy Aikman won three in a four-year span, and Kurt Warner went to three in nine years with two different teams.
The only QB we could find that went to Super Bowls more than a decade apart was John Elway, who lost in 1987 and 1988, and then won in 1998 and 1999. We don’t think Brady will get to another.
That being said, Belichik has a first rounder and three second-rounders in next month’s draft. Pioli had a terrific draft history in New England; the team’s selections without him figure to be heavily scrutinized since there isn’t a more-detested “football genius” than Belichick.
Trade for Cassel, like Pioli and Haley, looks good on paper (KC Star)
54 Responses to “The Patriots, Pioli, Collusion, KC and Cassel”
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March 2nd, 2009 at 9:03 AM
Belichick is a slimy bastard, we know this. The question is….TBL do you think the Jets can swing a deal for Cutler if he stays on the market? His relationship with Denver is shot now right?
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:07 AM
Is Belichick still there? Oh, he is…then Brady can get to another Super Bowl. As long as Belichick’s on the sidelines and there’s a championship defense to be had, then Brady can get to another Super Bowl. I’ve always felt if Polian and Belichick ever hooked up to run a team they’d be unstoppable. Both are pricks who are terrific at what they do and couldn’t give a shit less what people think.
Vrabel = Declining, cap space
Cassel = They turned a 7th round show-me choice into a 2nd rounder
/no homo
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:09 AM
not a huge Cutler guy, but SURE, i’d love to have him in the fold. the argument could be made that hte Jets are going into the 2009 season with the weakest trio of QBs in the nFL.
definitely top 7 bad batch, no question
cant imagine the Jets pulling this off
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:10 AM
I find it shocking that Denver was going to give up a first round pick for Cassel. What could have turned McDaniels off that much about Cutler already that he wouldnt even give him a chance?
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:11 AM
Couldn’t they have cut Vrabel and taken the cap hit. The difference in value b/w a 1st and 2nd rounder would have more than made up for it, yeah?
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:12 AM
TBL..I cant imagine it either, but I just have the image of him carving the Jets up in the rain this year at the Meadowlands. That loss began the Jets plunge this year. They made Peyton Hillis look like Larry Csonka that game as well.
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:14 AM
That being said, Belichik has a first rounder and three second-rounders in next month’s draft
Simple as that. Plus, they just cleared $17 million in cap space. I hate the Chief’s, but I think folks are looking into this a bit much.
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:16 AM
but KC – they could be sitting on 2 first rounders and 2 second rounders.
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:17 AM
pioli was an administrative GM…ALL the personnel was handled by belichick, so why should we expect that the hoodie will all the sudden become football retahded?
belichick is a genius, and he just got a high 2nd rounder for a QB who probably wasn’t going to see the field next season. and people are knocking him? because of some percieved value that cassel has? it’s not easy trading a QB. just because the texans were dumb enough to give away 2 2nds for a backup doesn’t mean other teams will be.
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:19 AM
Belichick doesn’t like high draft picks. If he had the top pick he’d trade it for a two and a taint tuck. He doesn’t believe in paying big money for something unproven. He doesn’t get reeled in by flashy things.
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:30 AM
Since when do we take Mort’s word as gospel around here? What actually happened, is the Broncos & Bucs tried to jump in at the last second with a better deal, yet the Chiefs and Pats had already agreed in principal to their deal. If Belichick goes back on that deal and jumps on the other deal, people are criticizing him for that today. Can’t win.
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:30 AM
and what of last year’s stud LB who has the look of a franchise playeR?
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:30 AM
actually they do still have a backup QB. his name is kevin oconnell. who knows? nobody thought they had a backup QB last year when brady went down and cassell ended up doing pretty good.
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:31 AM
not knocking him – knocking the fact that a better deal was on the table.
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:31 AM
also, the notion of belichick doing some kind of favor for pioli makes my brain explode. that simply cannot be the reason this trade was done.
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:32 AM
They shopped that pick and couldn’t get any takers. They wanted to trade it for a package of later picks but couldn’t, so instead they picked a linebacker with the attributes to thrive in Belichick’s systeM.
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:33 AM
Now this is the only part of the deal that I think was sentimental, Vrabel gets paid his full amount by getting traded, but he doesnt if he gets cut. I think this was a favor to a highly respected player.
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:35 AM
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they traded down from #4 and picked him, right?
Anyway, they will pay their 1st round pick and their three 2nd round picks the same amount of money for 2 first round picks.
what’s a better value since not every 1st rounder is a franchise player?
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:36 AM
if they had the deal already worked out with KC, making the Denver trade could have seriously damaged their credibility with other teams, players, agents.
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:36 AM
i’ll take that bet.
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:37 AM
LOL Yes I love the idea that conspiracy theorists are completely ignoring that this would be completely out of Bill’s character. Sure, it would be just like him to do a favor for another friend in the game at the expense of his team *eye roll*
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:37 AM
I read your book, bsanders, you magnificent bastard.
/Hartman’d
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:40 AM
Late to the party, but what is wrong w/ this trade? I just read Peter King (I know, i know) and he had a great point: the pats have 4 picks in the first 58, and their total cost outlay is way less then that one high first rounder would be. They have a lot of guys who have to get paid, and they have confidence in their drafting ability that they will get at least three of these guys to play for a lot less money then just the one high 1st rounder would cost.
Also, Cutler isn’t going anywhere, imo. The only reason he was going to get moved was if the Broncos got Cassel to replace him. King also said Cutler asked to be traded a month ago when his OC quit and went to USC, so maybe Emo needs to STFU.
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:42 AM
and they couldn’t have found one at 12 this year?
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:44 AM
this is, assuming of course, that you can find the same talent. of course it can be done …
but it’s not like all these 2nd round picks have been hits. 50/50, IMO.
the 1st rounders, much better hit percentage
http://www.databasefootball.com/draft/draftteam.htm?tm=NWE&lg=NFL
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:45 AM
jpq makes a good point, their high priorities right now need to be extendeing deals to guys who are only signed through this year – Wilfork, Seymour, Gostkowski, I think there’s someone else.. I’d rather they spend their money on proven players than have a top 10 draft pick again.
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:46 AM
what’s they pay scale and guaranteed money for a 10-15 pick versus a pick in the top 5 second round?
that’s what the deciding factor is when you have Vince Wilfork, Richard Seymour, Tom Brady, Tedy Bruschi, and some offensive linemen all due contracts within the next couple years.
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:46 AM
TBL
- Read what JPQ just wrote. It’s a salary cap game, where you have to weigh talent against cost. Why pay for two first-round picks when you can stockpile second rounders, instead? If you’re a great talent evaluator, like Belichick is, it’s the smart play. Besides, who are they going to draft at 12? Vontae Davis? Lot of guaranteed money for someone who’s so inconsistent.
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:47 AM
KC Masterpiece BBQ chips
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:48 AM
If they give Bruschi another contract, I’ll shit a goat in shock.
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:49 AM
You can’t just name a random player that it wouldn’t make sense to draft in order to support your point.
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:50 AM
i agree with you there. they probably shouldn’t. the thing is, they’ev got some big contracts to hand out in two year just between Wilfork and Seymour. Throw in Brady who is due in 2010(i think) and you’ve got an interesting cap problem.
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:50 AM
Fine. But can I just ask open-ended questions in place of an argument?
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:51 AM
bruschi doesn’t have a shot in hell of getting another deal and id even be shocked if they give seymour another contract…seymour isn’t the player he was in 2004 and is now the third best lineman on that DL behind wilfork and ty warren.
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:52 AM
rey malauluga would probably be there. so would beanie wells. they’d both rock on the pats.
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:54 AM
Absolutely?
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:56 AM
If they give Bruschi another contract, I’ll shit a goat in shock.
I might have to come to Illinois and see that in person
The Pats had to restructure Randy Moss just to sign Fred Taylor and pay him $2.3 million, as they were only $1 million under the cap. Now they are $19 million, and can do/draft/sign whomever they want.
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:58 AM
hmmmm. brady’s been to four sb’s, 1 minute close to #5, and just missed an entire season. watch the fuck out.
/50td’d
March 2nd, 2009 at 10:01 AM
i see where you guys are coming from with this ‘2nd rounders can have 1st round value’ logic .. but the 2nd round history of the Pats in the last few years says otherwise.
IMO
March 2nd, 2009 at 10:03 AM
Bet both testicles he doesn’t hit 35.
March 2nd, 2009 at 10:07 AM
Yeah I thought it was a little low for Peter King to call Marquise Hill a bust… the kid effin drowned.
March 2nd, 2009 at 10:08 AM
brady’s had ONE season throwing over 30 TD passes. that was the 18-1 season (50).
set a more realistic goal … like 30.
March 2nd, 2009 at 10:08 AM
Based on his injury and the early reports on his complications, he’ll be lucky to start Game 1, let alone throw 50
/Culpepper’d
March 2nd, 2009 at 10:10 AM
They still have Randy Moss right?
March 2nd, 2009 at 10:12 AM
Yep. A quadriped who can throw a jump ball could toss 10 td’s to that freak.
March 2nd, 2009 at 10:17 AM
The Patriots are drafting Tebow?
March 2nd, 2009 at 10:19 AM
Everyone is all atitter that the Pats are going into this season without a proven backup. Cassel hadn’t been a starter since pee-wee football but throwing to Welker and Moss seemed to work out okay for him. Obviously the Patriots are comfortable with Brady’s recovery.
The Pats picked up a 2nd rounder for an aging LB and a backup QB, while clearing a shit ton of cap space. Nothing to see here, move along.
March 2nd, 2009 at 10:25 AM
Clown you magnificent bastard.
It’s all fine if Tommy is ready to play. However if he looks like McNabb/Culpepper the year after they had surgery, well then they could be in trouble.
March 2nd, 2009 at 10:32 AM
welker sucks.
March 2nd, 2009 at 11:27 AM
For the love of G-d, the Bucs submitted their offer after the paperwork was done with the Chiefs.
End. Of. Story.
March 2nd, 2009 at 11:36 AM
how does anyone doubt thaty belicheck and brady will get to another sb?
this team won 11 games with a guy playing qb who hasnt started since high school.
how’d the jets do?
March 2nd, 2009 at 11:59 AM
TBL, I know its tough, but try to bury your Belichick-hating conspiracy theories until you’ve read all the morning links.
Reportedly, New England had a three-way deal lined up with Denver and Tampa Bay: the Bucs would swap their 1st and 3rd round picks for Cutler, and Denver would send those picks to the Patriots in exchange for Cassel.
The only problem? Tampa Bay dragged their feet too long.
As it is, the Patriots got a 2009 2nd round pick in exchange for a guy who was almost the 2005 Mr. Irrelevant; that’s a decent return by anyone’s measure.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:35 PM
Cassel might be closer to the second coming of Scott Mitchell than Tom Brady. I think Belichick got decent value for his trade, and may even have given a small homeboy discount to Pioli.
PS, Belichick is smarter than you, TBL, just ask him.
bsanders offering this bet on his way to fulfilling his lifelong fantasy of being the soprano in the Vienna Boys Choir?
March 2nd, 2009 at 5:13 PM
This is just the first of the NBA-like NFL salary dump trades out there. It’s actually not a bad move by the Pats. They’re trying to keep themselves free from giving money to players who haven’t proven themselves yet. It makes perfect sense. I’m just happy they relinquished Cassel and Vrabel to my favorite team: The Kansas City Mob.