What We Know About Manny Ramirez
Baseball, Steroids May 7th. 2009, 4:45pm
The Manny Ramirez story is sodden with viewpoints, perspective and rampant speculation. Here is what we know.
Manny used HCG, human chorionic gonadotropin. The drug boosts testosterone production. It’s a common female fertility drug.
This drug can be used on its own for performance enhancement. Anabolic steroid users have used HCG to restart testosterone production after finishing a cycle.
That is all.
What can we speculate?
My Dad is a physician. Though this is not his area of expertise, I asked him if this was commonly prescribed for male sexual dysfunction. He unequivocally told me “no.€ Ramirez did not apply for baseball’s therapeutic use exemption. If that was the case, why, with his legacy at stake, would he not have volunteered it?
The body defense can be thrown out. Not, as Michael Kay argues, because we don’t know what a steroid body looks like. Manny has the body of a possible steroid user. Under the baggy uniform, he is ripped. Like Roger Clemens before him, he is known for his workout regime.
That said, we have no knowledge what Manny Ramirez did in the past, when he may have done it, or how it affected his play.
He’s not entirely a creation of PED. He was a beast in high school, a beast in the minors and a beast since he came up with Cleveland. There is no discernable leap in his performance at any point.
A clue may be his decline, or lack of one. Most power hitters generally fall off in their early 30’s. Jimmie Foxx fell off at 32. Ted Williams hit 30 home runs just once after 32. Mays lost his power at 35. Mantle at 32.
Ramirez fell off partially in 2007 at age 35, hitting 20 home runs in 483 AB. He hit 20 home runs in 425 AB for Boston in 2008. He then moved to LA and exploded for 23 HR in a 279 AB. Â Does this mean anything, decisively? No.
73 Responses to “What We Know About Manny Ramirez”
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May 7th, 2009 at 4:49 PM
I think his consistency is a big reason to believe him.
May 7th, 2009 at 4:52 PM
He could have been consistently using.
May 7th, 2009 at 4:56 PM
Still the purest hitter any of us will likely ever see. You could tell he was going to be a HOFer 15 years ago when he was batting 7th with the Indians.
May 7th, 2009 at 4:56 PM
I’m taking from this that Duffy’s seen Manny naked.
May 7th, 2009 at 4:57 PM
Outside of Bonds and Pujols, yeah.
May 7th, 2009 at 4:57 PM
Manny and Ortiz were pretty close in Boston, Manny not protecting papi has alot to do with his down numbers, but with that short porch in right at fenway and 0 HR’s for one of the league prolific hitters……..I gonna start to point the finger at Ortiz, I mean no one gets a free pass and you can’t tell me Ortiz had no idea this was going on with Manny in that locker room and didnt want it on what manny had. Papi wanted in on some of that action….not sayin, but just sayin
/hatin on Boston
//stirring the pot
May 7th, 2009 at 4:58 PM
Certainly he has in his dreams, Manny was on the Red Sox for 7 years.
May 7th, 2009 at 4:58 PM
he used in high school.
/high school teammate’d
May 7th, 2009 at 4:59 PM
glen allen hill
/not serious
May 7th, 2009 at 5:00 PM
Sorry, forgot to include the link. Fixed it.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:02 PM
They both obviously used steroids. Manny didn’t.
/yesterday
If Pujols wasnt stuck in AAA then Id give more credit.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:03 PM
blame the alcohol.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:04 PM
1. Prove to me how Manny hitting behind Ortiz affected his power numbers?
2. What short porch in right at Fenway?!?! It’s a terrible park for left-handed power alley hitting. It’s only short right by the pole.
3. They were both friends. That alone fingers Ortiz? If your friend rapes someone, does that make you a rapist?
May 7th, 2009 at 5:06 PM
Yeah, obviously every person is different. Aaron hit for power well into his late 30s and no one is accusing him of doing anything.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:06 PM
Julio Franco could still rake at age 62. I think it was his daily diet of grass and bark.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:07 PM
better yet prove to me how it hasnt…
all the other points are spot on
May 7th, 2009 at 5:09 PM
mrejr: It doesn’t. Lineup protection is a myth. There’s a fairly sizable study about it.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:09 PM
or you saying how hitting behind ortiz affected manny? or how hitting in front of manny affected ortiz?
May 7th, 2009 at 5:09 PM
duffy, youre a baseball guy, what do you mean that manny being outta the lineup doesnt effect papi’s numbers…..you had to pitch to papi to avoid manny….manny was a more feared hitter. youre better than that duffy
May 7th, 2009 at 5:10 PM
ok. i was seriously asking i wasnt being a smart ass.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:10 PM
Solid analogy.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:12 PM
He had a whole post about this predicting a great year for Ortiz. Needless to say it did not turn out as he expected.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:12 PM
really? i would think there were only a handful of guys worth studying. it is not like every 4 hitter is Manny or A-Rod.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:13 PM
Eithier’s numbers are gonna stay the same with Manny outta the lineup?….i guess we’ll have to see about this myth
May 7th, 2009 at 5:14 PM
How many people besides Ortiz take a 200 point slugging percentage increase after year 6 like Ortiz did?
Personally I think that is odd but if there are more people out there like that I would be less suspicious of him.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:14 PM
see what the fuck…just when i think i was out they pull me back in!!!!!
May 7th, 2009 at 5:15 PM
Because you can really tell from 50 games.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:17 PM
Yes there have been thousands of studies on this. They just all happened to be deleted from the internet and the physical copies of the studies were unfortunately all burned.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:17 PM
why can’t you tell in 50 games, its a 1/3 of a season??
May 7th, 2009 at 5:17 PM
I am not sure on his minor league stats, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Ortiz’s first 6 years would not project years 8 and 9.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:18 PM
There more/less efficient lineups. However, the players around a hitter do not affect an individual’s ability to hit a baseball. Whether a player’s approach changes hitting leadoff or hitting 8th in the NL is a seperate idea than lineup protection.
It is largely a myth.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:19 PM
I’m sick of this argument. Provide some evidence for it.
Look at the fucking numbers. Ortiz was hitting ahead of Manny Ramirez, yet Ortiz LED THE AMERICAN LEAGUE IN WALKS IN 2006 and 2007. Teams were pitching around Ortiz regardless of Manny Ramirez behind him.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:19 PM
I’m distraught over this… I’m going to treat this like everything else bad in my life – I’m going to drink it off starting tonight.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:21 PM
What is an adequate amount of at bats for you to determine something?
May 7th, 2009 at 5:21 PM
@Tartan, i can agree to a certain point , but it doesn’y even take a baseball mind to say “ok, ortiz is up and we dont want to put him on base, because we think manny can drive him in.” therefore he gets more fastballs and balls around the plate to hit. Baseball is such a game of numbers and statistics that all managers tend to go by this philosophy.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:22 PM
i dont think it affects other hitters as much as it affects how a pitcher pitches to the hitters. would you rather throw strikes to a average hitter and try to strike him out or try to take on a great hitter with a runner on.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:22 PM
Farady’s mom’s rack is amazing. Well…the younger one’s. Not the older one who looks like Ellen Burstyn.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:22 PM
i agree, im done. i gotta go drop turds. fuck boston, go cleveland.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:23 PM
What do I do with this Manny-Wood poster I just bought?
May 7th, 2009 at 5:24 PM
Great logic, except for the small problem that IT WAS NOT HAPPENING.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:25 PM
duder: I found no less than 10 articles with a simple google search. And the book that I was thinking about is on a shelf not 5 feet away from me. But nice try.
mrejr: This was brought up after Manny came to the Dodgers last year and they were talking about Either. Will Carroll did a thing using pitch f/x and found that pitchers were pitching to Ethier almost identically. I’m talking within a percentage point of # of fastballs thrown, # of curves, etc. Granted it was a SSS
May 7th, 2009 at 5:26 PM
If Manny Ramirez was making teams throw strikes to Ortiz, why did he lead the league in walks in 2006 and 2007 and finish second in 2005?
May 7th, 2009 at 5:26 PM
write with a red marker “DOESNT HAVE” in between the manny and wood
/take it to the ball park see how long it takes for you to get kicked out
May 7th, 2009 at 5:26 PM
In addition to Bill James in his 80’s era writings, JC Bradbury did a large study debunking lineup protection.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:27 PM
out of context.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:28 PM
Ortiz also lead the league in HRs in one of those years.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:28 PM
led
May 7th, 2009 at 5:29 PM
I’ll put Ortiz on base. If Manny doesn’t hit a homer, no way his fat ass is scoring from first…
May 7th, 2009 at 5:32 PM
Three years, give or take.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:32 PM
Nobody is going to throw more strikes or less strikes while looking at the on-deck circle or who is on base. The goal of every pitcher is to get the guy at bat out in any fashion they can.
You may see more fastballs or pitch-outs (balls) if there is a base-stealing threat on 1B and 2B is open, but the main goal still is to get the guy at the plate out.
Not making outs is what has made the Red Sox so good the last few years. Ortiz could have hit between Corey Patterson and Tony Pena last year and he’d still have the same numbers.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:34 PM
I think a better analogy is if your best friend smokes weed and bangs a lot of bitches because of it, you are more likely to smoke weed.
Not like these Dominican players have the best rep with steriods either.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:34 PM
Enjoy the read Cosmo, riveting stuff Im sure. 10 articles! 10 articles! 10 articles!!!!
May 7th, 2009 at 5:38 PM
So, when Ortiz doesn’t have a home run for three years, you will confirm that he’s finished, for us?
May 7th, 2009 at 5:43 PM
Three years for a statistically relevant sample size.
The standard deviation over even 500 plate appearances of OBP is 21 points either direction from the actual skill level.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:45 PM
@duffy: Gentleman’s wager. What do you think his OPS will be from today till the remainder of the year?
May 7th, 2009 at 5:47 PM
After the JC Romero thing, I’m a lot more skeptical of MLB on these suspensions. Because of that, I’ll give Manny the benefit of the doubt until hearing more.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:48 PM
What happened with Romero?
May 7th, 2009 at 5:53 PM
Romero took 6-OXO Extreme, an over-the-counter supplement he thought was safe. Romero claims it was tainted with androstendione which caused a positive drug test and a 50 game suspension.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:55 PM
Umpires were goosing the zone…Duh
May 7th, 2009 at 5:57 PM
two problems
a. Romero at least appealed his suspension, Manny doesn’t look like he’ll go that route
2. What Manny “supposedly” took is a LOT different than what Romero took.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:58 PM
A quick google of 6-OXO Extreme and first thing up says
“Introducing 6-OXO extreme – maximum testosterone production FOR HARDCORE USERS ONLY” from a site called anabolicminds
Why are you skeptical of mlb exactly? Its not like he was taking allergy medicine or something
May 7th, 2009 at 6:05 PM
.800 – Obviously, my initial projections were a bit off, but I stand by there being no evidence of decline in his numbers before this season.
I don’t think he gets up to his previous form. But, he’s on pace for his normal amount of doubles, a lot of his other numbers are similar, I think he starts hitting home runs eventually.
May 7th, 2009 at 6:07 PM
My guess is this: Manny never used anything before this season, but when he didn’t get the big contract he wanted/expected and he realized he was nearing the end of his big money days, decided to do whatever he could to extend them. It’s around this point where guys start to think about how much money they’ll have for the rest of their lives.
May 7th, 2009 at 6:08 PM
If you were setting an O/U, I’d go way over. I’ll say .880.
May 7th, 2009 at 6:15 PM
I wish I could say Evan Longoria was a decent baseball player, but I can’t be certain until the end of next season.
May 7th, 2009 at 6:15 PM
Because Romero’s suspension was for “negligence” and MLB Players Association told the players that the supplement was acceptable.
May 7th, 2009 at 6:16 PM
Not to mention, Youkilis has been batting behind Ortiz since Manny left. Youkilis only has the highest OPS in the majors right now.
Ortiz should worry about hitting the baseball and not his lineup protection.
May 7th, 2009 at 6:18 PM
@clown: That’s where Minor League Equivalents come into play.
May 7th, 2009 at 6:20 PM
That is the MLBPA’s fault. They also told ARod those drug tests in 2003 would be kept anonymous. Romero has a gripe with the MLBPA, not MLB.
May 7th, 2009 at 6:37 PM
MLBPA is still part of the process, though. I’m not even talking about who Romero should have a gripe with, just in terms of accepting information that comes out of the process. I’m not entirely trying to defend Manny, just that I’ll wait and see how things proceed.
May 7th, 2009 at 6:39 PM
late to the argument, but this jumps off the page.
why three years?
May 7th, 2009 at 6:45 PM
@TBL
To make statistically relevant assertions, one needs a large enough sample size to say with confidence that a player possesses a certain skill level. Even an entire season isn’t enough to say a player is a .300 hitter, or anything else.
May 8th, 2009 at 8:36 AM
/show n’ tell’d