The Raul Ibanez Story: Should the Media React to Blogger Speculation if There’s No Tangible Evidence?
Baseball, Video June 10th. 2009, 6:45pm
Blogger crafts a post wherein he speculates about the possibility of Philadelphia’s Raul Ibanez using performance-enhancing drugs.
“…any aging hitter who puts up numbers this much better than his career averages is going to immediately generate suspicion that the numbers are not natural, that perhaps he is under the influence of some sort of performance enhancer.”
Philadelphia Inquirer columnist takes notice and writes a column about the blog post. An Inquirer writer then goes to the ballpark and asks Ibanez about the febrile specuation.
“I’ll come after people who defame or slander me. It’s pathetic and disgusting. There should be some accountability for people who put that out there … You can have my urine, my hair, my blood, my stool – anything you can test. I’ll give you back every dime I’ve ever made” if the test is positive … “I’ll put that up against the jobs of anyone who writes this stuff. Make them accountable. There should be more credibility than some 42-year-old blogger typing in his mother’s basement. It demeans everything you’ve done with one stroke of the pen.”
Mini-internet shitstorm ensues. Blogger is invited into the Bob Ley-less cauldron of Outside the Lines.
And … scene.
—-
Dimestore opinion: Tough to call Ibanez out after just 1/3 of a season. It is not uncommon for guys to have a torrid month or two and tail off. Kevin Maas immediately comes to mind. But this isn’t really about stats – the media’s making it about bloggers who don’t play by any rules – Ken Rosenthal’s opinions, usually on point, are quite jarring in the OTL video – and the alleged damage they are capable of. That’s a valid point … if you pay attention to the bloggers.
[Ahhhh, the dilemna of newspaper guys: Let's say the Inquirer ignored the blog post. The story putters around for the web for a day or two, and then it's swallowed by the Stanley Cup, another Orlando win, Tiger at Bethpage, whatever. Ibanez never hears about it, never mouths off, and life goes on. The focus is on Mets-Phillies, not Raul Ibanez. But, a story like this can go viral when given a nudge from a credible columnist, and the Inquirer probably was thrilled with the traffic it drew (though a corner office had to joke: "Wish we had saved this for when we start charging people for content"). Would another paper have written this if not the Inquirer? Is that a "chance" the Inquirer wants to take?]
Baseball’s drug testing is a joke. It’s no secret that the players know well in advance of the tests, and flush their systems accordingly. But the smoking guns are out there. Documents have to exist of who is shooting up what and when (in the case of Bonds, a calendar), because if a trip to the doctor is necessary, a medical history will have to be provided. Will reporters be able to get their hands on the evidence? Will bloggers? For a story like this, that’s when the media should take notice – when there’s evidence, not opinions.
Just a guess, but we’re going to hear more names this summer of players who were on The List with A-Rod.
87 Responses to “The Raul Ibanez Story: Should the Media React to Blogger Speculation if There’s No Tangible Evidence?”
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June 10th, 2009 at 6:49 PM
just a reminder: If you happen to be a fan of the pm roundup and want it to return voice your opinion to tbl by email at thebiglead@gmail.com
together we can make a difference!
June 10th, 2009 at 6:51 PM
Definitely felt a “mom’s basement” coming as soon as I started reading Ibanez’s statement.
June 10th, 2009 at 6:54 PM
I saw that! Trying to sneak one by us TBL!
/points
June 10th, 2009 at 6:56 PM
nah, too much work. Make the difference by yourself and just say I helped.
June 10th, 2009 at 6:58 PM
he isnt gonna listen to just me. the more the better
June 10th, 2009 at 7:02 PM
God forbid anyone be skeptical of a player who is playing flat out outstanding compared to everything else he has done in his career. Blogger has a right to speculate, which is all it was really. Ibanez has the right to be upset, although what the fuck does he care about some dude from a blog that I haven’t even heard of.
June 10th, 2009 at 7:04 PM
what the blogger said is no different than what rick telander said about ryan theriot
June 10th, 2009 at 7:06 PM
not happening, sorry bud
so … a collective shoulder shrug from a Philly fan?
June 10th, 2009 at 7:07 PM
TBL – I’ve never herad your explanation for ridding the blog of the PM Roundup. Care to explain? I’m just curious.
June 10th, 2009 at 7:11 PM
Link please? I don’t think I ever read this.
June 10th, 2009 at 7:12 PM
I don’t care that he is accusing a philly player, I care that the player is so outraged. He shouldn’t care that Joe Schmo thinks he might be taking PEDs, who the fuck is Joe Schmo?
I jokingly have been mentioning the same thing to my friends, most likely not true, but in an era where enough people have been caught its not out of line to speculate.
June 10th, 2009 at 7:15 PM
SC: http://www.suntimes.com/sports/telander/1575381,CST-SPT-rick15.article
June 10th, 2009 at 7:19 PM
TBL ran out of photos of quarterbacks in hats.
June 10th, 2009 at 7:20 PM
Remember, Ibanez already has a dislike of internet writers because thts where some people use of advanced statistics that show that he, ya know, sucks in the field. There was a brouhaha about that when he came to philly, another Nate McClouth All-Star. The bigger issue here is that if every player who threw a hissy fit like this would actually go to their union and demand A. stronger testing and B. that there blood be stored so when future tests are developed for things like HGH these players are also caught. Instead of mouthing off offering your stool to a paper offer your blood to the union, that might actually, ya know, do something.
June 10th, 2009 at 7:21 PM
Well, after having read that, yes, I totally agree. It’s not like they pointed a finger and said, “YOU DID STEROIDS.” It’s merely just saying that everyone is suspect now.
The presumption of innocence is gone after liars like Clemens, Bonds et al.
June 10th, 2009 at 7:25 PM
The only difference between Theriot and Ibanez is people are stupid and refuse to believe that “little” young Ryan Theriot would really be juicing. They are much more likely to assume it about an aging power hitter like Ibanez, so it’s potentially much more damaging for him. But your right, there is very little difference in what was said about the two players.
June 10th, 2009 at 7:26 PM
I normally fall under the “holier than thou” camp in the ‘roids debate. But a hot start is not a steroid-fueled phenomenon. I remember Mel Hall hit 17 home runs early one year (‘87) and 1 the last 4 months. You have to respect the 162-game season, and often (seasons) for the ‘roids pattern to emerge. What? A guy has a 3 HR game must mean he hit the juice before the game. In summary: weak-ass blog post.
If Ibanez wants a piece of the blogger, tell him to check the nerds camping out the night before the Transformers movie.
June 10th, 2009 at 7:29 PM
Here is my take. But, seriously go read through the actual blogpost. The guy tries to disprove Ibanez used steroids. He never claims that Ibanez is. So, how can it possibly be a cheap shot?
June 10th, 2009 at 7:30 PM
I’m not sure I really understand all this uproar. The blogger just wrote that there are people talking about Ibanez. That point seems clear. Rosenthal’s main point was that “you did something wrong, otherwise we wouldn’t be on OTL”. It’s ridiculous to condemn someone for voicing their opinion, especially when not employed by some larger media organization.
June 10th, 2009 at 7:31 PM
good point about the internet stats/fielding/ibanez
felt like a change, that’s all.
June 10th, 2009 at 7:33 PM
Did any of the media people actually read the blog post? He doesn’t accuse Ibanez of anything.
June 10th, 2009 at 7:35 PM
i expect a lazy post like that from a blogger but when a respected columnist does it, it makes him look like a hack and a person too lazy to do some legwork for a story. i’m not saying theriot is above suspicion but to write a story with no proof whatsoever is selena roberts-esque
June 10th, 2009 at 7:36 PM
I like that Duffy. That sums it up right there, plain and simple.
Also, dig the slogan/tag line for your site.
June 10th, 2009 at 7:37 PM
Yes exactly. It’s really just hack journalism on Gonzalez’s part, and the fraternity of writers having his back on Rosenthal’s part. In the clip Gonzalez attempts to prove that the blogger did something wrong by noting how fast it has become an issue. He ignores the part where he created the issue with his manipulative article. (Also the blogger didn’t defend himself worth jack
June 10th, 2009 at 7:40 PM
We should e-mail that Internet writer and tell him he’s a hack.
Also, Sanchez just signed. Here’s an interesting tidbit from that story.
Why would they be negotiating deals? Gholston should take a pay cut. He was terrible last year.
June 10th, 2009 at 7:43 PM
Not the blogger, but the columnist.
June 10th, 2009 at 7:44 PM
I think they’re saying that they each reported late in their respective rookie years
June 10th, 2009 at 7:45 PM
You could almost say that Ibanez went into a bit of a roid rage when he was asked about the post.
June 10th, 2009 at 7:47 PM
brady anderson says fuck that blog.
June 10th, 2009 at 7:48 PM
@ The Big Lead …Tiger at Bethpage….
Can we get some live US Open threads when the tourney starts next THUR?
June 10th, 2009 at 7:51 PM
Did anybody see this? http://jeffpearlman.com/?p=1791? So who is the gay American League nineties slugger?
June 10th, 2009 at 7:57 PM
Frank Thomas.
That was a good article
June 10th, 2009 at 7:59 PM
and you’re wrong…again. the moment gays are forced to eat at seperate restaurants,drink at different water fountains and go to seperate bathrooms or risk getting thrown into jail or murdered then i will fucking march for the gay rights movement until my feet fall off. im tired of people who give hyperbole to shit because they are looking for their generation’s cause.
June 10th, 2009 at 8:03 PM
the us open isn’t this weekend?
June 10th, 2009 at 8:04 PM
Awesome.
June 10th, 2009 at 8:10 PM
Nope. Almost always ends on Father’s Day.
June 10th, 2009 at 8:15 PM
@ The Big Lead – NO. The US Open always ends on Father’s Day. It’s weird – it’s a little later this year.
American League? Do Robbie Alomar and Carlos Baerga qualify as sluggers?
June 10th, 2009 at 8:23 PM
Stupid question. Aren’t you supposed to roid up the year before you sign the contract? Why leave 10-20 million on the table?
June 10th, 2009 at 8:41 PM
what’s that? did someone ask for a Palin-Letterman post tomorrow? Sure, that can be done.
June 10th, 2009 at 8:43 PM
no.i think everyone asked for a pm round up return. but i can see how you got the two things mixed up
June 10th, 2009 at 8:51 PM
How about a CWS post?
/wink
//hoping you got my late-night revision and it is more acceptable
June 10th, 2009 at 8:52 PM
Letterman-Palin stuff is boring. He’s a lefty late night comedian who thinks she is a dumb and crazy radical. “hilarity” ensues.
June 10th, 2009 at 8:58 PM
isnt he like 9 months late on the palin jokes? or is he that afraid to do what most late night tv hosts do and make fun of the person who actually won the election?
June 10th, 2009 at 9:07 PM
jay – saw it. (shoot me an email mid-morning, tho)
starting with heavy NBA draft tomorrow. run for the hills, jpQ!
June 10th, 2009 at 9:10 PM
even Jon Stewart has poked fun at Obama.
June 10th, 2009 at 9:13 PM
Baseball’s drug testing is a joke. It’s no secret that the players know well in advance of the tests, and flush their systems accordingly.
June 10th, 2009 at 9:15 PM
Baseball’s drug testing is a joke. It’s no secret that the players know well in advance of the tests, and flush their systems accordingly.
wow, i messed that up. This statement is speculation, no? No different than what the author posted.
June 10th, 2009 at 9:15 PM
i have stopped watching him because he just leans too far left for me.
June 10th, 2009 at 9:20 PM
This is true, I like that he goes after MSNBC for being on Obama’s dick though. Glad someone is making note of that besides Sean Hannity.
June 10th, 2009 at 9:23 PM
i wish i could have seen that because i havent watched him for about a month and half
June 10th, 2009 at 9:25 PM
but if msnbc was critical of obama he would go after them real hard so really they cant win.
June 10th, 2009 at 9:25 PM
gonzo – as the stories go … the drug testers would have to call the club to set up a parking pass, clubhouse access, etc. this would be done weeks/months in advance.
word would trickle back to players to be clean by x date … they would.
at least those are the stories i hear (no link).
re: Palin … letterman joked A-Rod had knocked her daughter up, and used the phrase “slutty flight attendant” to describe her in a top 10 list. line crossed? i say no, but im not a palin fan. she certainly thinks so…
June 10th, 2009 at 9:28 PM
Perhaps I was being a lil picky there. Thanks for your explanation.
I think the guy wrote a terrific blog post which was chock full of stats about how good/bad the pitchers he faced and ballparks he played in. He said in the softest way possible that you can’t count out PEDs.
June 10th, 2009 at 9:29 PM
what?!?! a woman got angry because she was compared to a slutty flight attendany on national tv????? jeez she really needs to lighten up
June 10th, 2009 at 9:34 PM
Not overtly jumping over the line, but c’mon. If someone had said that about Hillary there would be a shit storm like nothing you’ve seen.
June 10th, 2009 at 9:40 PM
I know, everyone knows the correct term is “slutty hockey mom”.
June 10th, 2009 at 9:43 PM
anyone seen tropic thunder? it’s on at 10, not sure if it’s worth staying up for
June 10th, 2009 at 9:43 PM
but the question you have to ask yourself is “would i do her?”
/i would in a heartbeat
June 10th, 2009 at 9:44 PM
if you dont stay up and watch it you better record that shit if you havent seen it.
June 10th, 2009 at 9:46 PM
Thought Tropic Thunder was great.
June 10th, 2009 at 9:46 PM
It has its moments. Not really rewatchable. The first time through is fun.
June 10th, 2009 at 9:47 PM
Get back to me when the same level of outrage occurs over NFL players using PEDs. And don’t give me that shit about the league’s drug testing program being so far superior to MLB’s; that’s not the point. The fact that players like Shawn Merriman are celebrated for their accomplishments, while every player in MLB that has tested positive, been linked in some way(factually or not), or merely suspected of using by some asshat on a message board, is looked upon as a social pariah. That double standard is the point.
June 10th, 2009 at 9:57 PM
Right on, Bruce
/terrorist fist bump
June 10th, 2009 at 9:57 PM
Anyone ever gone to a porn convention? Just found out one is going on in town this weekend. Probably not going to go though
June 10th, 2009 at 9:57 PM
I just watched tropic thunder for the first time the other day. it was good. it’s worth watching for tom cruise alone. robert downey jr. was great too
June 10th, 2009 at 9:59 PM
ruck we know you will so you shouldnt have even brought it up
June 10th, 2009 at 10:00 PM
Amen Bruce.
June 10th, 2009 at 10:02 PM
Keep the fisting to a minimum, clown.
June 10th, 2009 at 10:03 PM
Bruce – I agree 100%. Where is the outrage over several Carolina Panthers testing positive for PEDs that were prescibed by a team physician? Where is the outrage over the Chargers having a bowl of unidentified pills in the locker room that they encouraged the players to ingest? This tells me that the Lupicas and Alboms of the world aren’t after a level playing field at all. They’re out to denigrate people they don’t like, and make some headlines. It’s not a story if a backup guard in the NFL does steroids, but it’s a huge one if the subject is the largest offseason acquisition by the defending World Series champions. I contend that this isn’t about steroids, it’s about selling papers and making a name for yourself. I’ll get off my soapbox now.
June 10th, 2009 at 10:04 PM
I can’t help myself, cassino
June 10th, 2009 at 10:04 PM
/Sheepishly looks away
June 10th, 2009 at 10:04 PM
i’ll give it a shot until the tom cruise cameo. not a fan of stiller. nor jack black.
downey jrs great, though.
big night in sorts tomorrow folks, get some sleep
June 10th, 2009 at 10:05 PM
It’s because of the % of Hispanic players in MLB. True story.
June 10th, 2009 at 10:11 PM
PM ROUNDUP
June 10th, 2009 at 10:14 PM
This would go good in the PM Roundup
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1192075/Woman-throws-old-mattress–1-million-life-savings-stashed-inside.html
June 10th, 2009 at 10:24 PM
@youngLefty: The outrage came from baseball writers realizing their romanticized sport was fake. All those memories of listening to the game on hot summer nights, hiding the transistor radio from their parents on school nights, begging mom and dad to buy the same kind of catchers mitt thurmon munson used were instantly tarnished when they decided to turn a blind eye to the steroid use in the 1980’s. they followed these players for 157 to 162 straight days a year. Now it’s biting them in the ass.
Now the writers argue saying anything back in the 80’s w/o solid proof would have been irresponsible and unethical, yet they forget to mention some of the biggest stories of the last half century were broken with less to go on than actually seeing a bottle of andro in a star sluggers locker.
no one gives a shit what football players do to their bodies. watching football games takes 100-120 short bursts of attention for the average viewer that lasts maybe about 8-10 seconds per clip. baseball takes 3-4 hours of watching.
you’re right. it’s not about steroids, it’s about the writers.
June 10th, 2009 at 10:25 PM
Why do you even need to go there? Be totally honest and compare being the governor of Alaska to being a manager for 3 weeks at a fairly busy Mcdonalds…that’s all you need to say about Palin
/would’ve voted for McCain if he’d picked Romney
June 10th, 2009 at 10:26 PM
this is way offbase. gay people may be able to use the same water fountains as everyone else, but they are denied the fundamental right of marriage which is (supposed to be) constitutionally guaranteed. why would you march until your feet fall off for the right to eat at a particular restaurant and not for the right to get spousal benefits (life/health insurance, pensions, visitation rights, inheritance rights, custody rights, end of life decisions, etc)? if black couples didn’t get the same protections as white couples, then would you march? if a black man died with no family other than his wife, would you support the government taking his estate over the wife’s protests? this is what happens to gay couples.
calling the gay rights movement our generation’s civil rights movement hits the nail square on the head. marriage has a lot more legal implications than most people seem to think.
June 10th, 2009 at 10:35 PM
Tropic Thunder has lots of funny lines, and funny characters, and some funny action. Overall, as odd as this sounds, it’s not a hilarious movie per se though… Cruise & Downey Jr. bring some heat though.
/Pump your brakes son.
June 10th, 2009 at 10:36 PM
damn you posada.
already bailed on tropic thunder. first 30 are dreadful. cruise was funny.
June 10th, 2009 at 10:36 PM
I’m right with you wilhelm. Sad part is, the entire sports watching universe is constantly force-fed this bullshit, and there are kids too young to realize the hypocrisy, and there are other people too dumb to comprehend it. Those people are no doubt turned off to baseball as a result. So these journalists who hold themselves up as some paragon of truth seeking have really only served to weaken the sport and its appeal. Way to go guys. Top notch.
June 10th, 2009 at 11:02 PM
starting with heavy NBA draft tomorrow. run for the hills, jpQ!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
/that is all
June 10th, 2009 at 11:34 PM
How you can like some shit like Gossip Girl, but not think Tropic Thunder is beyond me.
June 10th, 2009 at 11:42 PM
Posnanski has a blog/column about Ibanez up now
June 11th, 2009 at 12:32 AM
Dane Cook just absolutely bombed on Conan tonight. BOMBED, almost as bad as Stern earlier in the week on Letterman.
Good news, Opie and Anthony are on Fallon Friday night! And Jim Norton is on Red Eye tonight and tomorrow!
June 11th, 2009 at 12:45 AM
call me when perez hilton isnt the gay and lesbian MLKjr. also G&L’S lone argument is marriage…thats it. im for them getting the right to marry but to compare their not having the right to marry to what black people went through for the better part of 150 yrs is cheapening how far black people have come. and you want to talk about the right to marry?
there was a time when if a black man even glanced in the direction of a white woman he was jailed or murdered. so that was also part of their struggle. g&l people can if they want hide the fact that they are gay(not that they should), but black people are black and there isnt really away to get around it(unless they are Jackson,Michael….hi-yo).
and this lone issue that g&ls are bitching about is going to become nation wide soon which has taken waaaaaaaaay less time than the Civil Rights movement. hell there are people alive that can remember when black people werent aloud to vote. when was the last time a gay or lesbian was turned away from a polling place?
June 11th, 2009 at 1:15 AM
dude it’s a movement to get a group of people their constitutionally protected civil rights. so because it’s on a lesser scale than the black civil rights movement, and because you don’t like perez hilton, it’s not a worthwhile cause? or it is worthwhile but you just felt like quibbling with pearlman’s use of the phrase “civil rights movement?”
you say you support the right for gays to get married, but you dismiss it as a real issue because… why? i assume it’s because it’s one of those pussy-liberal-asshole causes and you don’t like that shit. yes?