What’s the Real Reason ESPN Removed its LeBron James-Partying-in-Vegas Story?
ESPN, LeBron James, LeBronageddon, Vegas July 29th. 2010, 1:30pm
ESPN claims Arash Markazi’s story (read it after the jump) on LeBron James partying in Vegas, “should have never been published” and that the “draft was inadvertently put on the server before going through the usual editorial process.” Absolutely nobody believes that. And that includes half a dozen writers at ESPN we spoke with who are familiar with the “editorial process.” ESPN isn’t commenting further. Two questions that we couldn’t pry out of the beleaguered ESPN PR staff:
1) So, uh, when is the story getting posted again, and if so, will it be any different than the version that already appeared online?
2) The “draft” sure looked ready. The headline, subhead, photos, captions – everything was in place. Everyone at ESPN knows it was on the budget, so it isn’t like this story came out of nowhere. How does the ‘usual editorial process’ work?
The theories for the removal are many:
* Did Markazi really have access to LeBron’s table? As in, why would Maverick Carter ever let a reporter get within earshot of LeBron at dinner and at a club? Markazi frequently writes about Vegas and is heavily connected there. (Based on this blog post, Markazi was in Vegas specifically for LeBron’s party)
* Is anyone else somewhat frightened by the fact that a non-entity like Maverick Carter could have Norby’s ear?
* Between ESPN’s many platforms and its commercials and the “Car wash” through Bristol … can you think of an athlete bigger than LeBron that ESPN is in bed with?
We do know that the story was highly anticipated at ESPN, and it was on the Page 1 budget Wednesday morning. Markazi, who previously worked at SI, has clammed up. You’ll notice neither he nor ESPN LA editor Eric Neel have tweeted about the situation (nobody at ESPN has). It has only been 24 hours since the story was taken offline, so ESPN could still be weighing its options about whether to re-post the story, edit something out and re-post it, or just hope a big-time athlete gets in trouble with the law today or tomorrow.
The two names at ESPN that keep popping up in talks with WWL employees about the situation are Norby Williamson and senior editor David Kraft. More as we get it. [photo: Getty]
247 Responses to “What’s the Real Reason ESPN Removed its LeBron James-Partying-in-Vegas Story?”
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July 29th, 2010 at 1:33 PM
Seems like LBJ and his crew said drop this story or we cut you off.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:34 PM
I don’t understand. At what point am I supposed to be outraged? I read the whole thing yesterday and it sounded like a puff piece about an egomaniac. I must be missing something.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:35 PM
I had a tuna salad sandwich for lunch.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:36 PM
James celebrates by crossing himself and taking a shot of Patron.
Sweet jesus this guy is the ultimate douche. He did this after winning a “dance-off” with Lamar Odom.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:37 PM
Maybe it’s the girl stuff that caused the story to be scuttled. But it’s not news that Lebron doesn’t treat people who love him very well.
/Cleveland’ed
July 29th, 2010 at 1:37 PM
I’m with GC, are we supposed to be upset over puff pieces now? TV journalism better look the fuck out, if so.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:37 PM
i liked it better when i didn’t hate lebron.
BAD OHESIAN, BAD!!!
July 29th, 2010 at 1:37 PM
I am very curious as to why the story was pulled. THe article itself is not shocking in anyway.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:37 PM
I don’t understand this “theory.” Are you saying the writer pulled a Mitch Albom and just made up that fact that he had “access” to LeBron?
Any other entity than ESPN and this is a total non-story.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:38 PM
Ham and cheese with barbecue flavored chips for me. Then I dropped a huge deuce.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:38 PM
No, not even close. That he was somewhere he shouldn’t have been
July 29th, 2010 at 1:39 PM
/Sports guy boner
July 29th, 2010 at 1:39 PM
Here’s what I know:
I don’t want to read the pulled story.
I’m not sure what to think about this situation, as in reaction to a story getting pulled.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:39 PM
Markazi is trash. That said the piece was boring and stupid. Rich person does rich person stuff and is probably a dick about it, not exactly watergate.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:39 PM
Ham and cheese with barbecue flavored chips for me.
I had the rest of a pulled apart PBJ at 10.45, and I just finished a grilled swiss cheese sandwich with 2 bites taken out of it that I picked up off the floor.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:39 PM
i had trader joe’s beef burritos.
if anyone wants to send me some relatively long articles to compile to read while i take a shit and have a dip, it’d be much appreciated.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:39 PM
i would have rather seen Danny Green have a dance off with LeBron
July 29th, 2010 at 1:39 PM
I would argue that it is still a non-story. I’m not one to bitch over a website’s content, but I am truly puzzled as to why this is a post.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:40 PM
can you think of an athlete bigger than LeBron that ESPN is in bed with?
Favor
So Lebron has a digital watchdog. no big deal
July 29th, 2010 at 1:40 PM
Q: What’s the Real Reason ESPN Removed its LeBron James-Partying-in-Vegas Story?
A: Chicken Legs
July 29th, 2010 at 1:40 PM
I mean, when is like S&F going to do an exposé on the times TBL pulled the Ole Miss, Bernard Berrian, and original Chicken Legs post?
The theories for removal are many . . .
July 29th, 2010 at 1:41 PM
Thinking the same thing.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:41 PM
I had a garden salad straight from the salad bar.
/Nancy boy
//but not gay, so leave me alone RAM3
July 29th, 2010 at 1:42 PM
Sounds like someone at the compound is unhappy with food choices
July 29th, 2010 at 1:42 PM
I went to a Sheetz for the first time ever. Jalapeno soft pretzel FTW.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:43 PM
Don’t his mention his name. He’s lke Freddy Kreuger if we don’t speak of him he will cease to exist.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:43 PM
Q: What’s the Real Reason ESPN Removed its LeBron James-Partying-in-Vegas Story?
A: Putting…statistical analysis proves it
July 29th, 2010 at 1:44 PM
all of them?
We can start with Farve presumably.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:44 PM
Sounds like someone at the compound is unhappy with food choices
I failed to mention the scrambled eggs that I let the dog eat off the ground. I really need to find some more variety that this kid will cram into his mouth hole.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:44 PM
So how long have you been homeless?
July 29th, 2010 at 1:45 PM
Q: What’s the Real Reason ESPN Removed its LeBron James-Partying-in-Vegas Story?
A: Because you touch yourself at night.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:45 PM
Sounds like someone at the compound is unhappy with food choices
I forgot to tell you how angry you sounded when I read this…
July 29th, 2010 at 1:45 PM
It’s hard to believe Carter and Lebron’s camp would let this guy into this situation but it was hard to believe that he would go on that stupid show and say “I am taking my talents to souf beach.” This crew around him isn’t the smart, business savvy type people used to think. They are a bunch of idiots.
I just hope this story doesn’t go away. F ESPN
July 29th, 2010 at 1:45 PM
People always rave to me about sheetz and I still haven’t gone even though there is one about a mile away from me. However, now that I know they have a jalapeno pretezel, I’ll be hitting them up asap.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:45 PM
Tiger Tiger Woods Y’all
July 29th, 2010 at 1:46 PM
Heh! Thanks, I needed that today.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:46 PM
I’m glad they listened to Don Ohlmeyer when he suggested that the business side of the network was on the verge of doing harm to the journalistic side of the network.
I mean, they usually listen to what their ombudsman says, right?
July 29th, 2010 at 1:48 PM
Hey, you know somebody took a screenshot of ESPN’s article? Amazing, no?
Here’s something for all you AnnaLynne McCord freaks (guilty), with one of the sexiest poses ever.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:48 PM
Shaq
/Shaq Vs.–coming soon to ABC!
//Remember when Big Ben’s first accusation came the day they were supposed to shoot his “Shaq Vs.” episode?
July 29th, 2010 at 1:48 PM
How is babby formed? How girl get pragnent?
July 29th, 2010 at 1:49 PM
Remember when the announcer guy accidentally cussed last night? That blew my fucking mind!!!
July 29th, 2010 at 1:49 PM
I disagree. TBL has made a name for himself by looking at the goings on in the media, and this is a perfect example of that. This is interesting to me, someone who would love to be in this business. It’s very odd for a story to run and then have it pulled down under the guise of not having been edited properly. Something is weird about the whole thing. I would like to know the real reason why it was pulled, but I’m sure that will not get out any time soon.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:51 PM
Markazi is garbage though. He just wants a seat at the table. I loathe his writing. It’s all about how cool he is becuase he gets to hang out with famous people.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:52 PM
Worldwide Leader in Bullshit. I’m taking my talents to CNNSI.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:53 PM
It was probably the mention of the ladies and the quote about the preference of a different server, but I wouldn’t be surprised that he got ticked off about the mention of him shooting jumpshots and doing crossovers in the casino. From “The more you hang around James…” part on, Markazi makes him sound ridiculous…And a man in LeBron’s position can’t afford to be made to look ridiculous!!!
/Now you get the hell out of here!
//Godfather FTW
July 29th, 2010 at 1:54 PM
This.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:54 PM
This wouldn’t have been a problem if ESPN would have hired a reputable journalist like Jim Gray to cover this story.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:54 PM
The story itself is worthless. Why ESPN is even concerned with getting this story in the first place is confusing. This is some TMZ shit.
The line between the two continues to blur.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:55 PM
LeBron owns Bristol.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:55 PM
Who doesn’t?
July 29th, 2010 at 1:57 PM
That article makes me feel dirty. Only Lebron could force me to like and respect Big Baby Davis.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:57 PM
Your “Get out of a bannin’ free” card is in the mail.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:58 PM
The NHL
/The X Games will get more screen time during SportsCenter than the Stanley Cup Finals
July 29th, 2010 at 1:58 PM
I think the problem here is (and we shouldn’t be shocked considering who we are dealing with) is that ESPN is a sports news network, and their job is to report the news. Now, part of their “responisbility” these days is to also report things on athletes that just don’t happen on the field. The problem is when it seems that they are getting dictated just what they can and cannot report or cover. But hey, ESPN doesn’t really care for integrity, we all know that.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:59 PM
TBL, are you seriously telling me the ESPN PR staff is “beleaguered” over this? ‘Cause it seems to me that you’re the only one in the media raking any muck over this non-story.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:59 PM
I beg of you, please do not patronize Sheetz in any way. Our company had a huge lawsuit brought against by Sheetz. Quite simply, we recommended they build one of their stores with extra precaution, they didn’t listen. During construction, we reiterated our recommendation, they didn’t listen. Immediately after construction, we again warned about what could happen, they didn’t listen. Two years later, what we warned against happened, and we get served with a lawsuit that cost us 6 figures to defend.
So, I began a personal boycott of Sheetz about 5 years ago. The only time I go in there is to defile their bathrooms as necessary when traveling.
/Chipotle Chicken sandwich and BBQ chopped chicken salad from Panera.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:59 PM
How ’bout a post on Vin Scully calling a day game on MLB Network at 3:30 you peoples time? (3:30 eastern)
July 29th, 2010 at 2:01 PM
Can I get them forwarded to me. Perkolatin’ over here.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:01 PM
I wonder if an editor, suit or higher up finally manned up and said, “WE’RE NOT FUCKING TMZ. TAKE THAT GODDAMN STORY DOWN!”
July 29th, 2010 at 2:01 PM
What do you mean … you people?
/looks at God’s country clock
July 29th, 2010 at 2:02 PM
That’s awesome. Tell me how it is, Bubbles.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:02 PM
I had chana masala with a big piece of bread and a can of V8. It’s going to come out pretty messy.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:02 PM
You’d hope so. But at the same time, ESPN new what they were getting when Markazi was hired. Hell, they have a link to the “Behind the velvet rope” articles he does in this abortion.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:03 PM
Nope. I guarantee that definitely didn’t happen.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:03 PM
Fuck you, letter ‘k.’
July 29th, 2010 at 2:03 PM
This is much more interesting and newsworthy to me than the Pitino court crap.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:03 PM
That’s awesome. Tell me how it is, Bubbles.
I can tell you now. It’ll be sublime.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:03 PM
can you think of an athlete bigger than LeBron that ESPN is in bed with?
Greg Oden
July 29th, 2010 at 2:04 PM
This is on every major blog. This is far from the only place talking about this story. ESPN already spiked the big story for Bron Bron earlier this year.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:05 PM
/company man’d
July 29th, 2010 at 2:05 PM
ESPN would kill for TMZ’s breaking stories.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:06 PM
This is bar far the biggest fall from grace of an athelete in his prime that I have ever witnessed. I guess the media really does bring everyone down at one point or another. Next up – Kevin Durant.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:06 PM
I think it’s absolutely a story, and it makes me happy that what Lebron doesn’t want read is going to now be even more read.
I didn’t realize that he really believes he’s a king until now.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:06 PM
I’d never heard of this Sheetz place before now. I’ll gladly join your boycot
July 29th, 2010 at 2:06 PM
I’d rather that get played up than this. Simmons has gone out of his way to mention that he can’t talk about Delonte West and Mama James.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:07 PM
Meanwhile, somewhere on the Orange County coast, Kobe is getting better.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:07 PM
I just saw Zombieland for the 1st time last night and it was not bad. Inception on Sunday.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:08 PM
Never been one to wish away time, but it’s going to be nice when the NBA season starts and Lebron goes back to destroying the league and the Lebron stories can actually center themselves around, you know, BASKETBALL
July 29th, 2010 at 2:08 PM
congrats on your employment at ESPN
July 29th, 2010 at 2:08 PM
Also, since ESPN is protecting Lebron James, there is no way they are going to ever write about him negatively. The only real way to get dirt on how atheletes are really like is to read books published by journalists or other players.
For example, Kobe says the words “motherf**ker” quite often.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:08 PM
For starters, Paul Mokeski.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:10 PM
This is bar far the biggest fall from grace of an athelete in his prime that I have ever witnessed.
WOW
July 29th, 2010 at 2:10 PM
LeDouche keeps making himself look worse, its not anyone’s fault but his. and lol @ “destroying the league”…yep, 7 years of “destroying” with zero championships, zero wins in the Finals, only to play second fiddle to D-Wade. Please.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:11 PM
No one gives a shit about the regular season.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:11 PM
dunk tape last year, ESPN post this summer. what is next for the King?
July 29th, 2010 at 2:11 PM
For example, Kobe says the words “motherf**ker” quite often.
*GASP*
July 29th, 2010 at 2:11 PM
And definitely not now.
/INEAY
July 29th, 2010 at 2:12 PM
Thanks for your support – you are free, however, to go all Jeff Reed in the Sheetz bathroom at any time.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:12 PM
I hate agreeing with you on this, but your absolutely right.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:12 PM
That NBA documentary “The Association” that followed the Lakers around last season kept having to bleep Kobe in practice. Nobody gives a motherfuck.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:13 PM
I should clarify: I’m only talking about basketball. No one, I mean NO ONE, at the height of his prime has fallen more off the cliff than Lebron has in these 2 months. They burned his frickin jersey in his home state.
Sports writers that used to slurp him suddenly hate him, and hell, even spencer doesn’t like the guy. The only people I think that are still on his side are you and Coop.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:14 PM
can we please stop shit like this? insult the fucker all you want, but at least make an effort.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:14 PM
I was just using it as an example.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:15 PM
His name is easy to make fun of?
But good call, I guess just using his normal name is enough in these days and times.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:15 PM
his home state is a tacky mcmansion, not ohio. we don’t want to be associated with him anymore.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:15 PM
Ya gotta try the Bavarian Pretzel Melt Sandwich w/ lettuce, tomato, honey mustard, and horseradish. When going to PSU games, it’s on our to do list at the first Sheetz we see.
/sorry, roeth. i’ll try to get my psu construction mgt grad brother to join your boycott, but it’ll be a tough sell.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:16 PM
/Paging Hedo Turkoglu
July 29th, 2010 at 2:16 PM
soccer baseball.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:17 PM
When did you turn against him? I thought you were still going to root for him no matter where he went?
July 29th, 2010 at 2:17 PM
I don’t know how big this story is. But is definitely worth talking about. It was very strange.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:18 PM
/puts on black hood
Anger. Fear. Aggression. I knew you’d eventually come to the dark side. From hence forth, you shall be known as… Darth Brutus
July 29th, 2010 at 2:19 PM
He returns to his rightful throne lording over Cleveland.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:19 PM
I can see why LeBron would want this story killed. It’s pretty lame of ESPN to comply, but from a PR persepective this is just more damage to LeBron Antoinette
July 29th, 2010 at 2:20 PM
I think what he or ESPN doesn’t realize is that pulling stories (whether its the dunk, or this) just brings MORE ATTENTION and more backlash against him. If they had just left it, people would have shrugged it off.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:20 PM
im still rooting for him because his basketball talents are truly amazing and awesomely entertaining to watch. plus, i DO appreciate the 7 years he was here.
that said, as a person? he’s a spineless punk.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:22 PM
Excellent.
/ Mr.Burns’d
July 29th, 2010 at 2:22 PM
Speaking of LeBron as a basketball player, has there been any word what kind of offense the Heat are gonna be running? I want some Showtime down there
July 29th, 2010 at 2:22 PM
Whitlock’s latest comparing #6 to Mike Tyson and Flavor Flav.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:23 PM
please…anyone saying it’s not going to be fantastic is delusional.
the heat are must watch TV for any basketball fan.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:24 PM
I’m very interested to see what the reaction is next season when Lebron goes back to being the best player in the NBA and his team wins a championship.
Sure, it will technically be “Wade’s” team. But make no mistake, Lebron WILL be their most valuable player. He’s younger, bigger, healthier, and just better than Wade. As great as Wade is.
And then he does it again in 2012, and 2013, and 2014.. and then finally Durant makes a serious challenge at his best player in the league mantle.
Just a guess, but I think the tide will turn back in his favor. Everywhere except Cleveland that is.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:25 PM
Can’t wait for the Kobe v. DWade Finals. Or is it LeBron v. Lamar?
July 29th, 2010 at 2:26 PM
Bromes has a mouthful of LeBron’s cock down his throat, doesn’t he?
July 29th, 2010 at 2:27 PM
Bromes, the reason it’s Wade’s team is the aggression he plays with. LeBron is a way better facilitator but nobody notices that kind of thing in the context of just how high scoring I think the Heat should be. I want to see some crazy high point totals out of these guys
July 29th, 2010 at 2:27 PM
And Wade will be the high scorer
July 29th, 2010 at 2:27 PM
what did he say that was inaccurate?
July 29th, 2010 at 2:29 PM
what did he say that was inaccurate?
Nothing, that’s the whole point.
I’ll let you guys (most of whom are huge Kobe fans and have an ax to grind) bash Lebron personally.
But I will NOT sit here and let you guys pretend like he isn’t the best basketball player on the planet, because he is and the facts prove it.
/truth’d
July 29th, 2010 at 2:30 PM
I didn’t say he was innacurate, though I think there is a debate about who is better, Kobe or LBJ. I was just commenting on his verbal fellatio, that’s all.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:30 PM
His posts don’t seem fitting for ESPN:
http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/behind-the-velvet-rope/post/_/id/110/vegas-baby-vegas
July 29th, 2010 at 2:30 PM
well no shit.
kobe fans are just delusional and like rapists. it’s kind of endearing, to a point…
July 29th, 2010 at 2:30 PM
I believe there has been talk of LeBron running the point, Magic Johnson style. It will be intersting to see how Wade gets his with the ball in LeBron’s hands the majority of the time.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:31 PM
never seen one of those.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:32 PM
Wow. Never would have followed down that rabbit hole, TSH. ESPNtourage ftl!
July 29th, 2010 at 2:34 PM
I believe there has been talk of LeBron running the point, Magic Johnson style. It will be intersting to see how Wade gets his with the ball in LeBron’s hands the majority of the time.
My guess is they increase tempo, get more shots up per game, which makes it easier for the big 3 to get their numbers
Charley Rosen made an outstanding point when he said if you could take out Chris Bosh and substitute Dennis Rodman in his prime, they would be a better basketball team
July 29th, 2010 at 2:34 PM
kobe fans are just delusional and like rapists
You’re an idiot.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:35 PM
knew id get a reaction from you ballz, lol.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:36 PM
The same way he always does when the Heat use a point guard, he takes it from the wing and works inside out on an isolation. Let’s not be stupid.. LeBron likes passing the ball.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:36 PM
If I was a Heat fan, I wouldn’t have any worries about Wade and Lebron
My worry would be Bosh… no May/June experience, a bit soft on defense, is going to want to average close to 20 per game… he’s a really good player but I could think of many better *fits* for that team
July 29th, 2010 at 2:36 PM
It doesn’t matter if they win. The whole point of him being hated is that he backed out of challenges and took the EASIEST possible way out.
It doesn’t matter if he wins….4 now, there’s still going to be an asterisk on his name.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:37 PM
This is one of the most no shit statements I have ever read. I am pissed that you even wrote it down.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:37 PM
ESPN Made a statement said they aren’t going to post the story at all:
July 29th, 2010 at 2:37 PM
And exhaust the big 3 for the playoffs when all they have is a poo poo platter (besides Sexy Dexy) remaining? Like I’ve said before, they’ll wreck shop in the regular season, and flame out in the playoffs. Just like the last two years LeBron has played.
Of course, LeBron’ll still have The PER Award For Greatness, so there’s that. Which is cool.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:37 PM
totally agreed.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:38 PM
WHY WON’T JULY END!!!!! I need football!!!
/this “story” would never exist in September…
July 29th, 2010 at 2:38 PM
I won’t say he’s not one of the best, but you can’t quantify if as THE best. Depends on what you’re using to measure who’s the best…is it stats? is it leading your team to victory? is it showing up in key moments (no, not in the regular season)?
July 29th, 2010 at 2:39 PM
This is one of the most no shit statements I have ever read. I am pissed that you even wrote it down.
Well, considering the fact that they would let ME into the Basketball Hall of Fame before Rodman, I like to throw him a little love here and there.
The guy was a wack job, but a heck of a ballplayer. And a winner.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:39 PM
knew id get a reaction from you ballz, lol.
I can never tell if your serious or joking.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:39 PM
Jordan/Pippen/Rodman > Bosh/Wade/Lebron
no shit.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:40 PM
if ever in doubt…go with joking.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:42 PM
LeBron has never played in the NBA with another player who has threatened his status as alpha dog. He is a great passer, and has proven his unselfishness on the court. This is unquestioned. But, if Wade starts getting the majority of the praise for this teams success, will LeBron continue to be willing to play the facilitator role? Only time will tell.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:42 PM
I love that guy on Truehoop who mentions PER for everything Lebron does. OK, you can have all the great “PER” you want, but if you ain’t winning, PER doesn’t quantify to crap.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:42 PM
but you weren’t joking.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:42 PM
Hey, when you can’t write for shit, be controversial!
July 29th, 2010 at 2:43 PM
is Big Sexy going to make the team?
July 29th, 2010 at 2:43 PM
I can never tell if your serious or joking.
if ever in doubt…go with joking.
I thought you were serious, to be honest.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:43 PM
is it stats?
if it is, check Lebron’s. He had a triple double in his last game for the Cavs. A triple double. If you don’t remember, check his stats. I know he checks ‘em, because he was checking them before the game was over.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:43 PM
I love that guy on Truehoop who mentions PER for everything Lebron does. OK, you can have all the great “PER” you want, but if you ain’t winning, PER doesn’t quantify to crap.
It’s not *just* PER. Literally EVERY objective measure that we have shows Lebron to be the best player in the NBA for at least the past 2 seasons.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:44 PM
Seriously. No freakin’ shit, Chuck.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:44 PM
S.Fever: I see what you are getting at but we are talking logistics here right not. Anybody worried about how Wade will get the ball needs to find something else to be worried about, that will not be one of there problems. Not by a long shot. What they should be worried about is who covers Dwight Howard. Who stops the Super Sayien known as Kobe?
July 29th, 2010 at 2:46 PM
It’s not *just* PER. Literally EVERY objective measure that we have shows Lebron to be the best player in the NBA for at least the past 2 seasons.
Keep saying it. Doesn’t matter. We got a hell of a diamond collection going over here.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:46 PM
Who stops the Super Sayien known as Kobe?
The same Kobe who shot 6-24 with Ray Allen guarding him in the biggest game of his career, and who is about to turn 32?
Please, Kobe’s an all time great, and is only just leaving his prime, but he’s not a major threat to the Heat at this point.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:46 PM
is Big Sexy going to make the team?
Ostertag?
July 29th, 2010 at 2:48 PM
His team still won the ring. And he had a very good series up until game 7. And the Lakers got better since we saw them last. And they still have two very effective 7 footers in the inside.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:48 PM
This…
July 29th, 2010 at 2:49 PM
LOL.
The Lakers are back to back champions bud, make sure you don’t forget that. Get past Boston first, and we’ll talk.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:49 PM
Please, Kobe’s an all time great, and is only just leaving his prime, but he’s not a major threat to the Heat at this point.
And with that stupid comment, I take a take my leave. Until later, gentlemen.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:49 PM
Hey does anyone know where I can go to read the same exact criticisms of the Heat that I’ve been reading for three weeks? Also, the same exact prediction that they still can’t stop Kobe? Anyone got a place?? I want exact regurgitation, no new thoughts.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:50 PM
now that’s just silly. of course he is. Still think the Heat are the favorites, but to day he isn’t a threat is, well, Beebobish.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:50 PM
Don’t forget Shaq called him “the RuPaul of big men.” Classic.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:50 PM
His team still won the ring. And he had a very good series up until game 7. And the Lakers got better since we saw them last. And they still have two very effective 7 footers in the inside.
Thanks for picking up the slack, Jersey.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:50 PM
Hollinger! PER is a crappy measure because it isn’t really weighted very well but it’s a little better PPM. The unfortunate thing about breaking down basketball into these kind of stats is that the kinetic nature of the sport makes it tough to quantify a player like Dennis Rodman or Shane Battier that helps a team a lot without most of the “counting stats” (to borrow a baseball term). Objective statistical analysis just isn’t there for football and basketball the way it is for baseball and it probably can’t be
July 29th, 2010 at 2:51 PM
Hey does anyone know where I can go to read the same exact criticisms of the Heat that I’ve been reading for three weeks? Also, the same exact prediction that they still can’t stop Kobe? Anyone got a place?? I want exact regurgitation, no new thoughts.
Earth
July 29th, 2010 at 2:51 PM
Luckily he’ll have the rest of the Lakers on the court with him, and they will whup that ass.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:51 PM
Good god…can you imagine him in Miami? He’ll be in rehab by December.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:51 PM
Okay…he’s the best player….who had the best regular season team, and a one-time coach of the year. Yet when the playoffs come around, his teammates are bad and they lost because of him? Get out of there.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:53 PM
Don’t forget Shaq called him “the RuPaul of big men.” Classic.
Def. one of Shaq’s top 5.
However the Godfather quote can never be topped, by any basketball player as far as I’m concerned. That will always be number 1.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:53 PM
PREACH!
July 29th, 2010 at 2:54 PM
Isnt the Kobe/Bron debate the same Manning/Brady debate we had before Manning won one?
July 29th, 2010 at 2:54 PM
Okay…he’s the best player…
You could have just stopped right there
July 29th, 2010 at 2:54 PM
Don’t forget Shaq called him “the RuPaul of big men.” Classic.
not as good as Screamin A Smith saying Bosh is softer than Cottenelle Tissue Paper on national television
July 29th, 2010 at 2:55 PM
Atleast with Kobe or even Wade, when his team was projected to do well (they werent in 2006 and 2007), his team actually DID WELL.
Lebron’s team was top 4 in the East for 3 straight years and the top seed for 2 straight years, yet he couldn’t even get to the Finals. And the only year he did get to the Finals was when the East was so damn weak that a lineup with Boobie Gibson as the starting guard could think to challenge the mighty Spurs.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:59 PM
Atleast with Kobe or even Wade, when his team was projected to do well (they werent in 2006 and 2007), his team actually DID WELL.
If you’re arguing that Kobe and Wade are better players that’s fine. At the end of the day we are all entitled to our own opinions.
All I’m saying is the argument wouldn’t stand up over time. Objectively.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:59 PM
This is the reverse of the Lebron’s teammates argument. So…when they dont make the finals, they are weak and he choked, but when they did its because the competition was weak.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:00 PM
Shaq’s is better because he is not afraid to go back it up on the court. Same with the Sacramento Queens. No talking head can ever top a player taking a shot at another player.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:00 PM
You’re missing my point. When you’re hailed as the “best player”, you’re expected to win. He didn’t win. To use a famous quote, “YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!”
When Kobe, Wade were projected as having strong teams that could win, THEY WON. I can’t say the same for Lebron.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:02 PM
Dont forget about Sasha Pavlovic!
/Boobie will always have Game 6 against Detroit
//31 points (19 in the 4th quarter) on 7 of 9 field goals, 5 of 5 from the three point range, 6 rebounds and 2 assists.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:02 PM
I guess the media really does bring everyone down at one point or another.
um, lebron made a lot of choices that have gotten him to this point
/so have i
July 29th, 2010 at 3:02 PM
I’m arguing that when a player is held up as the “best player” and has the #1 seeded team in the league, and the best he can muster is a second round playoff exit, then that player is extremely overrated.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:02 PM
When Kobe, Wade were projected as having strong teams that could win, THEY WON. I can’t say the same for Lebron.
The irony is that if you switched Lebron off the Cavs and put on Kobe or Wade the past 2 seasons. They never even would have been expected to win.
Lebron, in many ways, is a prisoner of his own greatness. He is so incredible that even with a lousy supporting cast, it was a disappointment they didn’t win. That would not have been true of any other player in the league with that team and head coach.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:03 PM
and to prove it they got swept.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:03 PM
I’m arguing that when a player is held up as the “best player” and has the #1 seeded team in the league,
Let’s see how many games the Cavs win this year without Lebron.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:04 PM
Shaq’s is better because he is not afraid to go back it up on the court.
sad he is going to have to beg for a job this summer
July 29th, 2010 at 3:04 PM
Buddy I hate to break it to you, but you do not win 60 games with a “weak supporting cast”. Do you see what my arguement is? You don’t win that many games if your complimentary peices are weak.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:05 PM
sad he is going to have to beg for a job this summer
It’s the money. He knows he should retire but if he can find just one team willing to pay him a few million dollars, it’s worth it.
I can’t blame him. Or anyone else who hangs on for a few more paychecks.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:06 PM
Orlando got swept by Houston after they beat Jordan’s Bulls.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:07 PM
Buddy I hate to break it to you, but you do not win 60 games with a “weak supporting cast”. Do you see what my arguement is? You don’t win that many games if your complimentary peices are weak.
Their second best player is Anderson Vareijo… what else do you need to know?
July 29th, 2010 at 3:07 PM
Hey buddy, every single talking head on ESPN and TNT broke that one months ago. Don’t worry, pal. Have a nice day, cheif.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:07 PM
Theory: They pulled the story because it sucked.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:09 PM
I wish I could be as great at debating as you are. Nice comeback, buddy.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:09 PM
They were the #1 seed in the league for 2 straight years, what else do you need to know?
July 29th, 2010 at 3:10 PM
did youse guys and gals hear that Wade was upset with LeBron’s display and was looking into a Vegas party of his own?
July 29th, 2010 at 3:11 PM
Do you realize how strong teams in the East were in 1995 compared to in 2007??
July 29th, 2010 at 3:11 PM
Don’t just toss “MJ’s Bulls” around like they were at full strength and Orlando took down MJ in his prime, and that Houston squad works the Spurs.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:14 PM
It’s the money. He knows he should retire but if he can find just one team willing to pay him a few million dollars, it’s worth it.
no more $20 mill a year salary. he wants to play for a contender. rumors down here saying if Gortat is traded, bring back Shaq to Orlando. like Shaq and SVG would get along. Dwight will be on his show this summer so i think the beef between them is over. media played that one out(ESPN mostly)
July 29th, 2010 at 3:14 PM
They didn’t just lose LeBron. They also have to replace two key big men (Shaq, Z), and Delonte West. They have to break in a new system, head coach, and GM. Therefore I dont think you can compare next and last season’s win totals and credit the margin solely to LeBron.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:14 PM
I agree with all of this.
Just don’t think you can dismiss Cleveland’s title run completely, especially as means of discrediting Lebron’s acheivements. He was 21 that year.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:16 PM
no more $20 mill a year salary. he wants to play for a contender. rumors down here saying if Gortat is traded, bring back Shaq to Orlando. like Shaq and SVG would get along. Dwight will be on his show this summer so i think the beef between them is over. media played that one out(ESPN mostly)
If you’ve read some of my posts on the subject you know that I’m a big Shaq fan. But he’s yesterdays news. Personally I’d rather not hear his name mentioned or here anything out of his mouth for a few years. Then in the future there’s plenty of time to wax poetic about his dominance.
Don’t think he can help a team.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:19 PM
Agree that the thing with SVG and Howard was contrived though. It’s not that. I just think he’s too old.
No shame in that, father time always wins
July 29th, 2010 at 3:19 PM
Shaq would still be relevant had he not burned bridges with literally every team he’s been on (minus Cleveland). It’s sad that someone as good as he was has regressed to the point of someone who doesn’t even have a team to hold on to. Even Hakeem at 37 got a chance with the Raptors.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:21 PM
Even now, Shaq’s egotistical side always wins out.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:23 PM
Well, to karma’s credit, he was right about the East. Just atrocious.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:24 PM
Also, I jsut realized that Lebron is wearing a chain with his own initials as the pendant.
(shakes head)
July 29th, 2010 at 3:25 PM
wow. lebastard is a narcissitic c*m dumpster. Who new?
July 29th, 2010 at 3:25 PM
Shaq would still be relevant
You really don’t follow the NBA that closely huh?
Shaq’s washed up, he can’t play anymore. Despite his tendency to burn bridges people all over the NBA actually like Shaq. That’s not the issue. The issue is his presence on the court hurts teams more than it helps them
July 29th, 2010 at 3:26 PM
Also, I jsut realized that Lebron is wearing a chain with his own initials as the pendant.
the guy wears LBJMVP shirts. Check my $tats was my fave shirt
July 29th, 2010 at 3:27 PM
i havent even read the post or the comments yet, but i think im gonna like this.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:27 PM
Also, I jsut realized that Lebron is wearing a chain with his own initials as the pendant.
Never said he didn’t have some growing up to do. All I said was that he’s still the best player in the game
July 29th, 2010 at 3:37 PM
lmao.
Of course I dont, though somehow I can recite the rotations of almost all the title teams over the past 11 years off the top of my head, but hey, I really must not know anything about the NBA or follow it closely.
Obviously Shaq is past his prime and is a liability on the court in a lot of ways; but if you think he can’t help a team from the bench, then you clearly don’t know jack about the NBA either.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:38 PM
that wasn’t even directed at the debate, I was just pointing it out.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:42 PM
I was seriously going to tell you and trey that the Magic should have brought him back if the Paul trade happened.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:44 PM
Obviously Shaq is past his prime and is a liability on the court in a lot of ways; but if you think he can’t help a team from the bench, then you clearly don’t know jack about the NBA either.
He was past his prime 5 years ago… now he’s washed up, there is a difference.
Anyways, this isn’t about Shaq… he’s a living legend, it’s about the NOW… I can’t wait to see how this plays out with the Heat.
Say what you want (we all have)… but I am more excited for the Heat’s opening game than I am about the upcoming Yankee playoff games. And I wanna punch myself for saying that, but it’s the truth.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:44 PM
I was seriously going to tell you and trey that the Magic should have brought him back if the Paul trade happened.
there was talk a couple days ago if the Magic should retire Shaq’s number. i dont know about that.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:44 PM
hey mike, this theory of mine look better now?
July 29th, 2010 at 3:46 PM
there was talk a couple days ago if the Magic should retire Shaq’s number. i dont know about that.
Shaq did his best work in L.A., that’s where his number should and will be retired
July 29th, 2010 at 3:49 PM
He dissed management on the way out, and consistently took shots at Kobe till about 2006, and even continued in 2008 with the rap video. He’s not getting anything retired in LA.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:49 PM
First post is correct. BronBron comes off as a spoiled child, given the hit his image took when he left Cleveland. This hits the defense that he wants to win championships, more like The Stone Roses, he wants to be adored. No wonder they lowballed the story.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:50 PM
I’m pretty sure they’ll win the title starting next year. I dont count the Lakers out this year because it’s Phil’s last year so the team is extra motivated, and Blake and Barnes really really help the Lakers bench now.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:50 PM
The one angle that hasn’t been discussed that much is what this does to the MVP award over the next 5 years
Last year I, like many, just assumed Lebron would keep winning it every single year until the voters got tired of voting for him
But now, since he will be on a talented team, it opens up the door for Durant to win a couple in the near future
Also, I really wouldn’t count out Lebron and Wade working out some kind of deal where Lebron defers to Wade in the regular season to get Wade a MVP and Wade allows Lebron to rise up in June and win the Finals MVP. Provided it doesn’t affect the teams chances of winning.
Should be interesting.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:51 PM
’m pretty sure they’ll win the title starting next year. I dont count the Lakers out this year because it’s Phil’s last year so the team is extra motivated, and Blake and Barnes really really help the Lakers bench now.
I’m a big Steve Blake fan but he’s going to have to be even better than I think for the Lakers to threepeat
July 29th, 2010 at 3:53 PM
He dissed management on the way out, and consistently took shots at Kobe till about 2006, and even continued in 2008 with the rap video. He’s not getting anything retired in LA.
The Lakers would look a lot worse than Shaq if they never retired his number.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:56 PM
I am hoping this stays true as well. Don’t forget he also took shots at Dr. Buss. Nobody takes shots at Dr. Buss…
It would be blasphemous for The Big Turd to have his jersey aloft at Staples.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:57 PM
I don’t think the LA fanbase would care, cause Kobe’s number coming up from this era.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:59 PM
I don’t think the LA fanbase would care
Well, I don’t think the Yankee fan base would care that much if Arod’s name was retired someday. But it should be and will be.
And Arod’s impact on the Yankees isn’t close to what Shaq’s was on the Lakers.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:00 PM
OH YEAH. I forgot about that! Okay 110% he’s not getting shit retired. You don’t take shots at your owner and expect to get your jersey retired.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:00 PM
Arod = Shaq
Jeter = Kobe
I try to stay away from lazy, cross sports comparisons but that one works really well
July 29th, 2010 at 4:01 PM
You don’t take shots at your owner and expect to get your jersey retired.
Who said anything about Shaq’s expectations?
I said ‘I’ expected to have his number retired because he was the best player on 3 championship teams. Period.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:01 PM
Why “should” it be. They won 3 titles, but he was an absolute dick to management in 2004 (he asked for a 33 million dollar extension in Feburary while being injured), and dissed management, the owner, and the franchise player for 2 years after switching teams. They don’t owe him crap.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:03 PM
Why “should” it be.
Because they won 3 titles with him as the best player on the team
Obviously the Lakers have very high standards… and as a Yankee fan I can appreciate that, but the best player on 3 title teams is a no brainer.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:05 PM
Why do people throw the word “owe” around so much?
Nobody owes anybody anything in this world…. I’m talking about what *should* happen or what *will* happen.
The Yankees don’t *owe* it to Jeter to offer him a contract this offseason, but I think they should and am praying to God they do.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:06 PM
There is a lot that goes into getting your number retired. Shaq isn’t even liked by most Laker fans in this time, let alone management. The “Shaq/Kobe” era is remembered more for Kobe’s earlier years now than for Shaq’s dominance, especially since he’s led the Lakers to more titles since. Shaq is an afterthought; no one’s going to fight for his number to be retired, especially not in LA.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:07 PM
There is a lot that goes into getting your number retired. Shaq isn’t even liked by most Laker fans in this time, let alone management. The “Shaq/Kobe” era is remembered more for Kobe’s earlier years now than for Shaq’s dominance, especially since he’s led the Lakers to more titles since. Shaq is an afterthought; no one’s going to fight for his number to be retired, especially not in LA.
Revise history all you want, I just don’t think it reflects well on the Lakers
July 29th, 2010 at 4:13 PM
How exactly am I “revising” history?
Did he win championships? Yes.
Was Kobe a major factor on those teams? Yes.
Is Kobe still on the Lakers? Yes.
Did Shaq leave? Yes.
Did Shaq diss Mitch Kupchak and call him “Mitch Cupcake”? Yes.
Did Shaq comment on Jerry Buss wanting to sleep with younger girls? Yes.
Did Shaq diss Kobe multiple times after being traded? Yes.
Does LA remember the Shaq era much? No, because they’ve won more.
Did Shaq win in another city? Yes.
Shaq burned his own bridges. He’s getting what he deserves.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:17 PM
How exactly am I “revising” history?
By leaving out certain details.
What about the part where Kobe was charged with Rape and tried to snitch out Shaq to save himself.
What about the part where Kobe tried to also burn his bridges and get traded from L.A., bashing management on the way out the door.
Oh wait, you pretend those things never happened, instead you focus on the positives.
Which is exactly what the Lakers will do with Shaq someday. They will retire his number and focus on the positives, of which there were many.
Why do you feel so strongly about this? I don’t get it. I’m not losing any sleep over it. I said that the Lakers should retire Shaq’s number someday, and they should.
I didn’t say they HAD to or they *owe* it to him. I simply said it was the right thing to do.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:18 PM
And the irony is. When they do retire his Jersey ten years from now. You’ll be on here admitting that it was the right thing to do.
Time heals all wounds.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:21 PM
karma has this nailed. A city’s opinion of the player matters, and folks mostly think Shaq is a dick. You earn a spot in the rafters by being a great player, but thats not all there is to it IMO. And that is all Shaq had. If he hadn’t done his shock and awe campaign upon leaving town, I could see it, but not after his behavior since he left. IF it gets up there, he will def. have to wait until after Kobe’s. Don’t think Kobe isn’t telling JB that Shaq’s jersey shouldn’t be up there either.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:24 PM
Who are you guys fooling. EVERYONE thinks Kobe is a dick. So what?
July 29th, 2010 at 4:25 PM
Here we go with this again. How do you expect to have any credibility when you say things this stupid? HOW, I mean really, HOW could Kobe saying Shaq paid his women off get himself saved from rape charges?
July 29th, 2010 at 4:26 PM
And I’ll go back to the Arod comparison.
Arod has done a LOT to embarrass the Yankee organization. I know, I’m a hardcore fan. And yes, most of us favor Jeter. But if the Yankees didn’t retire Arod’s number someday I would be the first to call out the organization for being petty and not seeing the bigger picture.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:26 PM
Because we are Laker fans and it appears you are not. Simple, no? No one wants their team to put a scumbag’s jersey in the rafters.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:27 PM
HA! Only in your fantasy world junior.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:27 PM
/leaves thread, buenas noches amigos.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:30 PM
I disagree this is a non-story and I can see why they would try to pull it. LeBron comes off as an even bigger jackass than he did in early July…
/ can’t wait to see the King’s lowered Q score at the end of the year
July 29th, 2010 at 4:31 PM
Because we are Laker fans and it appears you are not
Ok, one last comment.
You say you guys are Laker fans. But yet, when Kobe tried to get traded to the Bulls, I saw a lot of you guys saying “Go Bulls” and getting ready to jump ship on the Lakers.
So, in other words, you aren’t REALLY Laker fans, you’re Kobe Bryant fans who root for the Lakers. Not the same thing.
/glad we settled that, NOW I can say good night.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:35 PM
The fact that you don’t see how stupid/irrelevant some of the things you post are what make me not want to comment. But for the sake of hilarity, I will continue:
Huh? He said “I should pay my women like Shaq”….it was a mistake in a situation of pressure. He was obviously wrong, but mentioning Shaq had nothing to do with “saving himself”, unless somehow Shaq was co-having sex with him in that hotel room. You just wanted to bring that up as a trump card cause you dislike Kobe for that reason (among otherS), I get it.
Burning bridges = dissing management. Kobe made it clear to management he wanted to WIN first and foremost. Even though he wasn’t traded, Kobe still played well for the Lakers in the beggining of the 07/08 season and assumed his responsibilities by shutting up and playing through it.
No, I think its just you right now.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:36 PM
So last year, you were screaming “Go Cavs”….now you’re screaming “Go Heat”….see the irony there?
July 29th, 2010 at 4:57 PM
Nice one karma. Damn that’s gotta sting a little.
July 29th, 2010 at 5:07 PM
Just got home.
Karma – I give you a lot of credit for not denying the fact that you were ready to jump ship on the Lakers and start rooting for the Bulls if the Kobe trade had gone through.
No seriously, that’s not me being sarcastic or trying to get the last word. I seriously give you props. I fully expected you to pretend that you wouldn’t have done that.
Ciao, enjoyed the debate
July 29th, 2010 at 8:37 PM
I think we will eventually “discover” what really happened in all this. Someone will write a book or get paid to not talk as to why this story got pulled, but then spill the beans anyway…