Michael Turner & Age vs Mileage for a Running Back
NFL, Stats May 10th. 2011, 3:30pm
Last weekend, I ran my first set of running back projections for fantasy football, and I had Michael Turner, the Atlanta Falcons running back, at #18 on my first pass through the projections. I suspected that was lower than most. Turner finished with the 9th most points in standard scoring, a little lower than that in reception leagues (something we’ll touch on in a second), but he seems a pretty safe pick. Geoffryvs had this comment, which I don’t think is outside the norm:
Only thing is that Turner hasn’t had the same beating as a prototypical starter of his age since he was a backup for so long in San Diego. Granted, he’s had a lot of touches in the last three seasons so his long period as a backup may not matter. Still, he never had more than 80 carries in a season before his first year in the ATL in 2008.
Well, in fact, it’s not, because here is one of the first rankings/comments on Turner I came across doing a quick search, from a site called FantasyFootballManiaxs, where they have him ranked at #8 in the running back rankings:
The only worry with him is age, as he turned 29 years old this February. The good news is that he only has 1,116 career carries. He should still be a RB1 for at least the next two seasons and is a monster touchdown scorer with 39 touchdowns in the last three seasons
Thus the questions. Does the fact that Michael Turner has only 1,116 career carries mean he is a younger 29 year old than many other backs? And are there any other factors about his profile that suggest how he might age?
Well, I don’t have to really do the research for the first, because it has already been done. Almost five years ago, Doug Drinen at pro-footbal-reference tried to answer the first question when he asked running back deterioration: age or mileage? Doug embarked on a series of ways to try to look at that question, starting by pairing backs who had similar statistical seasons at the same age, but different prior workloads by total career carries, and then seeing how long each lasted. He then looked at backs that reached certain milestones such as 4 Top 12 Fantasy Finishes, 5 Top 20 Finishes, or a Top 5 Finish, and then divided them into three groups by career carries through age 27, and looked at how many future carries they had after 27. In every case, the high carry group (i.e., the Paytons and Emmitts and Tomlinsons) had more future carries, not less.
He then ran a regression using past workload, value, previous year’s value, and age to assess future carries. The upshot: “[c]ombining these two numbers [age and prior workload], we could infer that it would take about 800 previous rushes to age a back as much as one chronological year does.” I think that’s generous, even, because prior workload is correlated with career value, so the better quality that came with those additional carries works the other way. Basically, there is no evidence that suggests that Turner is a younger 29 than some other back.
By the way, if you liked that research by Drinen, drop him a line (feedback AT pro-football-reference.com), and let him know I sent you, kind of like how the radio stations tell you to mention them with promos. I’m always trying to encourage him to someday write some more, when life allows it, so let him know he’s a good dude and you enjoyed his work, and you’d like to see more some day.
Anyway, if there is no evidence that suggests that Turner is a younger 29, is there any that suggests he is actually more likely to fall off as he ages? Turner has several areas of concern for me. (1) he’s a big back; (2) he’s not involved in the passing game at all; (3) he’s reliant on lots of carries and touchdowns to hold his value. From this Football Outsiders article, a drop in reception numbers is often an indicator that a back is about to decline, even if he is still productive as a runner. How not involved was Turner in 2010? He had a league leading 334 rushes, but only 12 catches all season for 85 yards.
Five other backs had over 1,000 rushing yards but less than 100 receiving yards in a season at age 28. Look at those names: Alexander, Henry, Bettis, Okoye, and Rogers. They all fit the bigger back mold, and were guys that were rushing machines and often touchdown machines at age 28. They averaged a 10.8 Fantasy finish at 28 (Turner was #9). The next year, none of them finished in the top 20, as Bettis missed 5 games and had the best result, just over 1000 yards and 4 touchdowns. The average fantasy finish at age 29 was 28.6, and they missed 4.4 games on average.
I know people like to think that the magical age is 30, but many backs start their decline at 28 and 29. Well, in fact, only six backs had more than 320 carries in a season at age 29. Turner doesn’t strike me as the body type that is going to age gracefully, and the lack of receiving involvement and reliance on touchdowns and carries, for a team that was 13-3 but likely to regress off that, means he has too much downside risk for me. I hope I’m wrong, but I tend not to bet against age, and if I do, I want it at the right price. Turner as a top 10 back isn’t that price.
[Photo via Getty]

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42 Responses to “Michael Turner & Age vs Mileage for a Running Back”
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May 10th, 2011 at 3:38 PM
interesting.
May 10th, 2011 at 3:42 PM
Except that Snelling gets all his receiving yards, and Snelling and their fullback take half his touchdowns.
May 10th, 2011 at 3:43 PM
/shakes fist at Lisk for the buried on weekend posts.
good article. enjoyed the other one even more.
May 10th, 2011 at 3:43 PM
Awesome stuff Lisk. I really always bought into the thought that if RB was a backup for a while, his legs were actually “younger.” Guess not.
May 10th, 2011 at 3:48 PM
Awesome stuff Lisk. I really always bought into the thought that if RB was a backup for a while, his legs were actually “younger.” Guess not.
I bet if we could somehow create the next Walter Payton, give him all the talent, and somehow impute to him all the knowledge that comes with experience, but not have him take any beating through age 29, and then dropped him into the league fully formed, he would probably last about 2 years longer than otherwise.
But that’s an absurd hypo. Even backs like Turner were playing special teams, practicing, taking hits in college.
The reason that low workload backs tailed off before high ones is because they typically werent as good. The argument for Turner is he was behind an all-time great, and if he was on another team at a young age, he would have got more carries.
May 10th, 2011 at 3:51 PM
Wasn’t your first post here the myth of 370?
May 10th, 2011 at 3:51 PM
very interesting…
May 10th, 2011 at 3:51 PM
futbol? cmon we need another D Howard post up in this piece
May 10th, 2011 at 3:56 PM
Wasn’t your first post here the myth of 370?
No my first post was saying how the Bills, who everyone was picking to have 1st overall pick, wouldn’t be as sucky ad people think. 3rd pick in the draft, suck it, doubters!
May 10th, 2011 at 3:57 PM
Very good point. But what about the flipside? If a guy comes in at a young age and immediately starts racking up a bunch of carries (someone like Clinton Portis) he probably IS going to start wearing down earlier than normal, right?
May 10th, 2011 at 3:58 PM
Need to fire the Master of Panic. Guys who are always yelling and screaming about the sky falling start to get tuned out, his act is old.
Poor sports prognostication is the bedrock of this site.
May 10th, 2011 at 3:59 PM
yea, but the bills were better than their record.
May 10th, 2011 at 3:59 PM
Interesting. There is the “dumb GM” effect with the “proven” guys, though, right? What I mean is, guys like LDT, Larry Johnson, Shawn Alexander are given more opportunities than they might otherwise deserve based on their current performance level because they have performed that way in the past, even when there are better options on the roster.
And just getting carries can result in decent fantasy football seasons. Not saying his research is misguided or not valuable, just adding my concerns.
May 10th, 2011 at 3:59 PM
Very good point. But what about the flipside? If a guy comes in at a young age and immediately starts racking up a bunch of carries (someone like Clinton Portis) he probably IS going to start wearing down earlier than normal, right?
So are you saying in 10 years Turner MIGHT surpass Clinton Portis?!?!
May 10th, 2011 at 4:02 PM
I remember Frank Gore being behind a lot of guys he shouldn’t have been behind.
May 10th, 2011 at 4:03 PM
Dumbest comment of the day.
May 10th, 2011 at 4:04 PM
So in my keeper league I shouldn’t keep Turner as a 6th rounder and hold on to Run DMC and Hillis? Got it.
May 10th, 2011 at 4:06 PM
Do me a favor fellas. Please don’t judge all Laker fans on the comments of one guy.
May 10th, 2011 at 4:06 PM
Sorry Lisk… but this is important.
FAKE REX RYAN IS BACK AND HE’S KICKING BIN LADEN’S ASS!!!
May 10th, 2011 at 4:06 PM
I remember Frank Gore being behind a lot of guys he shouldn’t have been behind.
I heard this about Cal Ripken Jr. too…
May 10th, 2011 at 4:07 PM
I reached for McFadded every single year until last year. He fell WAY too far in our draft, but I refused to take him for continually burning me. Then he goes and burns me even worse because I didn’t take him. Oy.
May 10th, 2011 at 4:09 PM
I already judge the whole lot of you based on this guy
May 10th, 2011 at 4:09 PM
Nah, I understand that you, Ty, Karma aren’t on the same level of Cursed or Vincent. It was just a funny thread.
May 10th, 2011 at 4:10 PM
I always worried that linking to that site lead to a banning here. Definitely gonna read it though.
May 10th, 2011 at 4:13 PM
This happened to me too. Fuck DMC.
/I’ll stop now.
//fantasy football stories are not much better than poker bad beat stories
May 10th, 2011 at 4:15 PM
Who’s worse? Cheesy Laker guy from that gif or this Yankee fan?
Cheesy Laker guy from that gif could be wearing that bling ironically.
/probably not though
May 10th, 2011 at 4:15 PM
I think the guys were behind Cal, if you get what I mean.
/nttawwt
May 10th, 2011 at 4:16 PM
I already judge the whole lot of you based on this guy
That is very special.
May 10th, 2011 at 4:17 PM
I remember Frank Gore being behind a lot of guys he shouldn’t have been behind.
I may be willing to concede that point. I’ll certainly revisit that. Gore’s issue is turning 28, and he has been dinged up recently. I think he will still be productive when he plays. I’d draft him much higher if I was comfortable handcuffing Kendall Hunter late in case of injury. Unlike Turner, Gore gets most of his value from yards, and those backs tend to hold value better.
May 10th, 2011 at 4:20 PM
Indeed. Sonofabitch there better actually be a fantasy football season to be had, though. Damn you, NFL.
May 10th, 2011 at 4:20 PM
haha. that gif never gets old.
May 10th, 2011 at 4:22 PM
This article is really great, Mr. Dick Face. Portis is an interesting case because he was a starter at a young age. In terms of age, his decline was early. In terms of career his decline is really in his 8th season. He’ll be 30 when the next season begins (hopefully) and he’s pretty much done as a viable starter.
May 10th, 2011 at 4:24 PM
I’ll certainly revisit that. Gore’s issue is turning 28, and he has been dinged up recently.
The guy that redshirted two full seasons at the U because of injury and left early without making it through a full season as starter because of catastrophic injuries? That’s not recent. He also, fwiw, started all 16 games his second season and played a lot as a rookie
May 10th, 2011 at 4:26 PM
I stand corrected. Gore only missed a season and a half at Miami. And he came close to 1,000 yds in 2004 which is actually pretty rare on the Canes
May 10th, 2011 at 4:26 PM
Great post Lisk, really liked that study. I will make sure to avoid taking Turner too early in my draft if the opportunity presents itself. Also, I’m glad I finally said something worth pondering.
/hope I’m kidding
//probably not
May 10th, 2011 at 4:27 PM
Haven’t been able to keep up with most memes around here. But I think I’m happy this one came out of nowhere for me.
May 10th, 2011 at 4:31 PM
That wa from sporstgal, right? What was it all about though?
May 10th, 2011 at 4:34 PM
It’s from an article about the special teams rule changes, specifically kicking off from the 35. Severl commenters and Lisk were belittling the idea that this was a huge deal and Lisk wrote an article showing that it wasn’t that big of a deal. Bears fans were upset because apparently the organization’s whole philosophy is based on special teams
May 10th, 2011 at 4:35 PM
I think DF was referring to the fact that he broke his hip last year.
May 10th, 2011 at 4:36 PM
That wa from sporstgal, right? What was it all about though?
You really need more explanation other than it was from sportsgal?
/she called me dick cheese a day later.
May 10th, 2011 at 4:37 PM
I think DF was referring to the fact that he broke his hip last year.
And I’m saying that breaking his hip is part of a much larger narrative in Frank Gore’s career. He’s had a whole bunch of serious injuries starting at about the age of 18. FWIW, one of those injuries opened the door for Willis McGahee to have the greatest rushing season in Miami history. And subsequently suffer his own catastrophic injury
May 10th, 2011 at 4:39 PM
Ahh yes, I remember that thread now.