Arte Moreno Spent $325 Million Trying to Drive a Stake Through the Dodgers’ Heart
Baseball, Fans December 8th. 2011, 3:15pm
Arte Moreno bought the Angels for $180 million in 2003. The franchise has done plenty under his watch: Five AL West division titles and one name change – from the Anaheim Angels to the mouthful that is Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim.
But opening the checkbook today to drop $325 million on CJ Wilson and Albert Pujols was easily his biggest day as an owner. And it wasn’t just about landing one of the best players in baseball. It was about trying to overtake the Dodgers as LA’s team.
Moreno is of Mexican descent. Los Angeles has an enormous Hispanic/Latin community. The Dodgers are a mess, bankrupt, and Fernandomania turned 30 last summer. With the most popular baseball team in Los Angeles floundering due to ineptitude, Moreno did what any savvy owner would do: Pushed all his chips into the middle of the table in hopes of taking over the LA baseball market.
So what if Moreno grossly overpaid for Pujols? The Angels won’t feel that impact for 5-6 years, at which point Pujols will begin to break down like A-Rod has. The next 2-3 years are more important in an attempt to win over on-the-fence fans, or those disgusted with what has become of the Dodgers.
I expect a heavy, heavy marketing push for Pujols in LA. He’ll get Kobe-type exposure. It’ll be interesting to see if the next generation of baseball fans follow the Angels more closely than the Dodgers.
The best move the Dodgers can do to counter this?
Let Mark Cuban buy the team.
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December 8th, 2011 at 3:19 PM
The Dodgers will always be the bigger deal.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:19 PM
How much was the overpay?
December 8th, 2011 at 3:19 PM
Chris Paul to the Dodgers!
December 8th, 2011 at 3:19 PM
The best move the Dodgers can do to counter this?
Let Mark Cuban buy the team.
Too bad MLB will never, ever allow that to happen.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:20 PM
The angels don’t play in LA and don’t matter to LA.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:20 PM
The Angels can get Pujols, CJ Wilson, Dwight Howard, Lebron, etc…..Does not matter. LA is a Dodger town. Everyone knows that the Angels are just an OC team and no one in LA cares about the OC. Flatbillers in Huntington Beach will have brand new Angel hats. BFD.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:20 PM
Valid point. I would say the answer to this though:
Is win.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:21 PM
Hmm, the Marlins offered more $ for Pujols. Interesting that you’d consider the Angels contract overpaying
December 8th, 2011 at 3:22 PM
Is this Jemelle Hill week at TBL? Lots of race baiting going on around here. Do people really associate the race of the owner of a team as a bonus for their fandom? I guess it’s possible. But not sure, if this is a big factor, that Mark Cuban entering the ring is a valuable response by the Dodgers since Cuban is 100% white boy…unless we bank on people confusing his last name with his heritage? Though, what’s the Russian population like in the LA area?
December 8th, 2011 at 3:22 PM
Arte Moreno bought the Angels for $180 million in 2003.
Present value: $388 Million
Took a whole 8 years for the franchise to double in value. Baseball sure is struggling.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:22 PM
That’s right and just the way we want it. Doyers can keep their gang fights and bankrupt owner. Sour Grapes much?
December 8th, 2011 at 3:23 PM
Wrong. Did not overpay. The Phillies overpaid for a declining 1B who is heading into a steep decling. The Angels paid approriately for the next 5-6 years for one of the five best position players in baseball who will contribute 5-7 WAR per year. Come years 6-10 when he moves to DH, unless Pujols completely breaks down, he’ll be able to put up 3-5 WAR and get the all-time HR record as well.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:23 PM
Cuban has tried to buy two teams already and failed, seems to me that current owners know a sale to him will never get approved with Bud at the helm.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:23 PM
lollerskaes
December 8th, 2011 at 3:23 PM
Arte Moreno bought the Angels for $180 million in 2003
That’s it? They just won the World Series the year before. Hell, that’s close to what Drayton paid for the Astros in 1992. I can’t imagine Houston as a market is THAT much more valuable than Anaheim….is it?
December 8th, 2011 at 3:24 PM
The Angels have done a great job of making inroads into LA but they are always going to be the second team, at best, in LA County
December 8th, 2011 at 3:25 PM
Well … Wilpon is Jewish.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:25 PM
Arte Moreno bought the Angels for $180 million in 2003
That’s it? They just won the World Series the year before. Hell, that’s close to what Drayton paid for the Astros in 1992.
Mark Attanasio bought the Brewers for around 230 Million in 2005.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:25 PM
Present value: $388 Million
After a WS win that will only go up.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:26 PM
What is the concept of a franchise increasing in value?
/NBA owners
December 8th, 2011 at 3:26 PM
The Angels have done a great job of making inroads into LA but they are always going to be the second team, at best, in LA County
Aren’t they located in Orange County. Or was that what you were getting at?
/Not trying to be an asshole
December 8th, 2011 at 3:26 PM
Also, doesn’t matter that Moreno is of Mexican descent. Since when is an owner’s race a factor in the team who you root for? A ton of mexican-americans in LA follow the Lakers. Magic isn;t mexican, last time I checked. Neither is Kobe. We mexicans like winning teams, just like everyone else. How f-ing insulting to think that we’d root for the Angels because Moreno is of mexican descent.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:26 PM
TBL is not the first place to posit that Moreno being Mexican has helped him build a larger fanbase in Southern California
December 8th, 2011 at 3:26 PM
Well … Wilpon is Jewish.
Obvious, but also funny.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:26 PM
pffft. Suns were bought buy Robert Sarver for $404 million.
/cries
//jerry colangelo laughing
December 8th, 2011 at 3:28 PM
Aren’t they located in Orange County. Or was that what you were getting at?
Yes, but they market a ton around L.A. and are trying like crazy to take fans away from the Dodgers. TBL is right about that. They put up billboards right across from Dodgers Stadium on Sunset
December 8th, 2011 at 3:28 PM
Mark Attanasio bought the Brewers for around 230 Million in 2005.
I guess my question is then how were the Astros worth $680 million to Jim Crane? I love the Astros, they are my team even if they pull a Cleveland Spiders next year, but what the hell makes them that much more valuable?
December 8th, 2011 at 3:28 PM
Los Angeles has an enormous Hispanic/Latin community.
You don’t say?
/was trying to be an asshole
December 8th, 2011 at 3:29 PM
Yes, but they market a ton around L.A. and are trying like crazy to take fans away from the Dodgers. TBL is right about that. They put up billboards right across from Dodgers Stadium on Sunset
Which ballpark would you say is better?
/curious’d
December 8th, 2011 at 3:29 PM
Newer stadium I’m assuming, plus associated land around the stadium.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:30 PM
Dodger blue > whatever color the Angels decide to wear (since they seem to change their name and colors every few years)
December 8th, 2011 at 3:30 PM
The one you can walk out of and not get beat into a coma.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:31 PM
it funny, I’ve seen this question posted on here to tbl several times today, yet the guy making the claims, who doesn’t know shit about or care about baseball unless the Yankees are moving the needle in October will not answer it, but he will sure as hell proclaim it in every post.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:31 PM
I guess my question is then how were the Astros worth $680 million to Jim Crane?
Yikes. That does seem a bit steep. Considering they’re only worth $416 Million according to forbes. Fits right in with the owner of the Astros overpaying for something though I guess.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:31 PM
Houston is bigger, doesn’t have a competing team in the same sport in close proximity and also only has to compete with two other sports with the Rockets and Texans.
Also, you’ve got to remember that this was Disney selling the team but retaining royalty rights to the logo because of the movie. They did the same thing with the Mighty Ducks, which is why they changed their logo and name to just the Ducks.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:32 PM
Angels Stadium is right now a better place to see a game. Dodgers Stadium has not been kept up very well and the parking situation there is ridiculous. There is nothing structurally wrong with Dodgers Stadium, though, so any asshole that tells you it needs to be replaced is probably working for for Bird Selig (staring at you, TJ Simers). The general maintenance at the stadium seems, anecdotally at least, to have gone to shit. I’ve been in a broken seat 3 of the last 4 times I’ve been
December 8th, 2011 at 3:32 PM
The Forbes rankings aren’t worth shit. They should be disregarded completely, since they consistently undervalue things.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:32 PM
As an Angel fan raised in the area, I can say with certainty that no fan cares of people consider LA “Dodger town.” Right now, the Angels are at the forefront of the baseball world because they made a splash and they are relevant. I hope for the Dodgers sake, they get a capable owner who can turn the franchise around. There’s also 3+ million living in LA and millions more in OC, so don’t say there isn’t room for 2 LA teams.
Pujols for $250M is more than paying Pujols to hit HR’s. Season tickets will be sold out in minutes, every game sold out, merchandise through the roof, etc. We’re also going to witness HR #500, 600 and possibly the all time HR record from Pujols in an Angels uniform.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:33 PM
Houston is bigger, doesn’t have a competing team in the same sport in close proximity and also only has to compete with two other sports with the Rockets and Texans.
True, but I guess my thought was that the southern California media market, even with other teams to compete against, has to be quite a bit better than Houston’s.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:33 PM
How f-ing insulting to think that we’d root for the Angels because Moreno is of mexican descent.
Love it.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:33 PM
Wrong. Did not overpay. The Phillies overpaid for a declining 1B who is heading into a steep decling. The Angels paid approriately for the next 5-6 years for one of the five best position players in baseball who will contribute 5-7 WAR per year. Come years 6-10 when he moves to DH, unless Pujols completely breaks down, he’ll be able to put up 3-5 WAR and get the all-time HR record as well.
As it turns out, someone here may have written a post looking at the best hitters of all-time through age 31, and average WAR each year through age 41.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:34 PM
Send some members of MS-13 over to Artie Moreno’s.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:34 PM
I don’t think Arte Moreno owns the stadium, Orange County or the city of Anaheim owns it. That might be why the Angels “worth” is relatively low
December 8th, 2011 at 3:34 PM
How f-ing insulting to think that we’d root for the Angels because Moreno is of mexican descent.
TBL thinks Mexican’s are sheep?
December 8th, 2011 at 3:35 PM
said post is coming up! (well, not next, but soon)
December 8th, 2011 at 3:35 PM
I don’t think Arte Moreno owns the stadium, Orange County or the city of Anaheim owns it. That might be why the Angels “worth” is relatively low
Minute Maid Park is owned by the county.
/so is the Astrodome, which is still empty, in case you’re interested.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:35 PM
Link?
December 8th, 2011 at 3:35 PM
Why do I remember him getting that price on the Angels because Disney just wanted out or something?
December 8th, 2011 at 3:35 PM
I just checked Tim Ryan’s archive. You lie. I take back what I said earlier about you being valuable to Missouri!
December 8th, 2011 at 3:35 PM
+4 Vlad for mention of MS-13
December 8th, 2011 at 3:35 PM
Dodger blue > whatever color the Angels decide to wear (since they seem to change their name and colors every few years)
/ beats up another Giant fan.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:36 PM
Mexicans, although slow and dangerous behind the wheel, can serve a purpose.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:36 PM
/orgasms
//STATS!!!!!
You’re ok in my book Lisk.
Are you planning on throwing out outliers like Barry Bonds?
December 8th, 2011 at 3:36 PM
When will then be now?
Just now.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:36 PM
I will wear my throwback Angels hat with pride this weekend.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:36 PM
/so is the Astrodome, which is still empty, in case you’re interested.
They haven’t torn down that dump yet?
December 8th, 2011 at 3:36 PM
I wish I’d bought the Silverdome for $600k when I had the shot. Would make a nice crib. The electric bills are a bitch I bet, but imagine how easy finding parking in front of your house would be.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:36 PM
They did. Like I said, they retained some income from having licensing rights to the logo.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:37 PM
Philly Mantis–
if your estimates on WAR and age were correct, then they didn’t overpay.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:37 PM
Why do I remember him getting that price on the Angels because Disney just wanted out or something?
That’s true, too. Just like McCourt got the Dodgers because Fox wanted out. And they were willing to let him borrow enough money from them to afford their asking price.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:38 PM
Being a Jets fan, TBL knows what it’s like to be the little-brother in a two-team city, so I trust his take in this situation.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:38 PM
Someone stole my foam cowboy hat from me one night when I was drinking 151. Whores.
I don’t think TBL is out of line suggesting this is an issue, if Pujols and Ozzie were a reason for people to talk about the Spanish speaking population in Miami why is it ridiculous to suggest something about Pujols and Moreno?
December 8th, 2011 at 3:38 PM
I just completely made up that thing about Disney.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:39 PM
They haven’t torn down that dump yet?
Still standing, barely.
Interestingly, Wikipedia says that the Astrodome was nickname “The 8th Wonder of the World” (which I’ve heard before), but also the “House of Pain”. That one was new to me.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:39 PM
Per the lovely @SarahPhilli http://espn.go.com/espn/page2/story/_/id/7330142/green-bay-packers-stock-comes-conduct-rules-shareholders
If you buy stock in the Packers… You cannot bet on the outcome of any game played in the NFL. If caught, Commissioner Goodell has the right to fine you up to $5,000.
The column reads a little tongue-in-cheek, but it’s kinda funny, if true.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:39 PM
For WWoS and other people involved in that “What is the Midwest” talk, was reminded of this.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:40 PM
Are you planning on throwing out outliers like Barry Bonds?
I didn’t in the final numbers, we’ve got a small sample size anyway (because if I lowered the standards lower, the hitters wouldn’t be like Pujols) though I think you can adjust slightly. Bonds was an outlier late 30′s for obvious reasons. Gehrig was probably an outlier the other way coming down with a rare disease and being done at 36. Maybe it balances out.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:40 PM
And now Sam Amick of CNNSI is reporting three way deal (w/ Houston) is being discussed to send Paul to LA and Gasol to Houston.
if this happens, best SoCal off-season day ever.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:41 PM
The3rdMan
How are the hatchet wounds treating ya?
December 8th, 2011 at 3:41 PM
I was basing it off his historical trends (using Fangraphs WAR), and a quick WAR inflation along with US $ inflation of 2-4%. Pujols averages a 6 WAR per year (was less this year because of his injuries and bad first month), if you assume a continuation of that, in addition to moving to a stadium that is much friendlier to RH batters in addition to road games in more favorable parks for RH hitters (Texas, Boston, KC, White Sox, Cleve), I think his continued WAR contributions should average in the 5-7 range for his age 32 to age 36 seasons.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:42 PM
I’d also look at the TV contracts. Does Houston have an ownership in the local network that carries it’s games? Maybe they get a larger cut than what the Angels get from their carrier.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:42 PM
Link?
Having written it is not the same as having published it. It is written, so shall it be posted later today.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:43 PM
You lost Shannon Brown today. Consider it the worst day ever.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:44 PM
I’d also look at the TV contracts. Does Houston have an ownership in the local network that carries it’s games? Maybe they get a larger cut than what the Angels get from their carrier.
Ah, I hadn’t thought about that. To answer your question, no they don’t right this minute, but starting in 2013 or 2014 they are teaming with the Rockets to form their own network. The deal is already set and ready to go, the teams are just waiting for their current Fox Sports contracts to expire. So that’s probably a big reason for the difference in value.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:44 PM
I guess Spencer was right about Ohio. Y’all midwesterners enjoy your vacations to Dayton.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:44 PM
By the way, for my value guys, is 4.5 million per win generally accepted? What is the projected rate of inflation on wins (probably dependent on future TV deals, etc?). I didn’t know specific numbers here, but just generalized. I think 4.5 is what Fangraphs used for this year.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:44 PM
They offered more than the Angels? Pretty sure that is false
December 8th, 2011 at 3:44 PM
Turned into a blue waffle. Do not google image search blue waffle at work.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:44 PM
Sorry badger…didn’t catch the reference. I can’t stay online every day, all day like you can to keep up with the memes or whateverthefuck you are trying hard to say.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:45 PM
I want Manny back in a Tribe uniform. Do it Antonetti!
December 8th, 2011 at 3:45 PM
They offered more than the Angels? Pretty sure that is false
I saw $275 Million from the Marlins floating around on twitter. Not sure I believe it or not.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:45 PM
3rdMan, he’s saying that you’re known round these parts for disliking how vaginas look.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:45 PM
Hi I’m Yul Brenner, I’m dead and played a creepy robot in West World. Smoke Viceroy Cigarettes.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:45 PM
I think Dave Cameron on Fangraphs used $5 million for his baseline value today when discussing the deal. Rate of inflation is 5%. I used 3% since interest rates are still very low and will continue to do so until 2014.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:46 PM
he should’ve just gone to costco and picked up a costco brand pujols…better deal.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:46 PM
I kind of feel like if you drink 151, you probably deserve whatever happens to you.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:46 PM
They offered more than the Angels? Pretty sure that is false
Believe it
December 8th, 2011 at 3:48 PM
Umm, wow…how long ago was that? I wrote it and barely remember it. Something something mothers basement something get out more something.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:49 PM
Ya gotta Bereave.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:49 PM
My nightmares have been made. Blue Waffle… Good lord, why did I look that up?
December 8th, 2011 at 3:49 PM
Huh, guess I stand corrected even if it isn’t confirmed anywhere. Guess the no trade clause was big for Alberta.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:50 PM
omething something mothers basement something get out more something.
Rick Reilly, is that you?
December 8th, 2011 at 3:50 PM
Boom. Roasted.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:50 PM
I think Dave Cameron on Fangraphs used $5 million for his baseline value today when discussing the deal. Rate of inflation is 5%. I used 3% since interest rates are still very low and will continue to do so until 2014.
Okay, I’ll use both 4.5 and 5 with a 5% increase per year. My values using the average of the best hitters- 196 million (4.5 per win in 2012) to 217 (5.0 per win in 2012), but I would lean under on those values.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:51 PM
Good one
December 8th, 2011 at 3:51 PM
Add that I’m eating fish…I’m just very thankful I don’t puke from pics.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:53 PM
Bro, I saw one yesterday that will make you think other wise. I am dead fucking serious.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:53 PM
It is a sliding scale though. A 72-win team does not get as much value per win increase as an 88-win team (same for a 105 win team).
December 8th, 2011 at 3:54 PM
Blue Waffle Stoma
December 8th, 2011 at 3:55 PM
i guarantee i could find some pics taht’d make chief puke.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:55 PM
Bro, I saw one yesterday that will make you think other wise. I am dead fucking serious.
There’s something really wrong with me that I want you to share
December 8th, 2011 at 3:55 PM
“Space dock the blue waffle” Sounds like a good name for a band.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:55 PM
Let me eat in peace first, but my curiosity always gets the better of me.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:56 PM
Ok dude. I warned ya. click my name scroll down to the “Random WTF” post…. and I’m sure you can figure it out from there. Let me know what ya think.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:57 PM
Haven’t seen it mentioned yet, but the Astros hired Jeff Luhnow yesterday as their GM.
We’re so important that the story wasn’t even on ESPN’s Baseball mainpage. It was buried on the team page.
I know nothing about him. A little help someone, anyone?
December 8th, 2011 at 3:57 PM
I’m in moderation, was trying to give your directions because i will refuse to look at it again, let alone link it.
December 8th, 2011 at 4:01 PM
Director of scouting for the Cardinals the past few years. Cardinals have currently one of the top 5 systems in baseball. Very good hire by the Astros.
December 8th, 2011 at 4:03 PM
Also, doesn’t matter that Moreno is of Mexican descent. Since when is an owner’s race a factor in the team who you root for? A ton of mexican-americans in LA follow the Lakers. Magic isn;t mexican, last time I checked. Neither is Kobe. We mexicans like winning teams, just like everyone else. How f-ing insulting to think that we’d root for the Angels because Moreno is of mexican descent.
I think you just made his point for him, better haul your ass down to Anaheim and get some gear…
December 8th, 2011 at 4:05 PM
Umm, wow…how long ago was that? I wrote it and barely remember it. Something something mothers basement something get out more something.
Transcendent Idiocy has no expiration date.
December 8th, 2011 at 4:05 PM
Director of scouting for the Cardinals the past few years. Cardinals have currently one of the top 5 systems in baseball. Very good hire by the Astros.
Works for me.
December 8th, 2011 at 4:15 PM
eh, he would have 10/5 rights after 5 years into the deal, right? not sure why it’s a big deal.
December 8th, 2011 at 4:17 PM
The Dodgers will always run L.A. for the simple matter that they are the only team in Los Angeles.
This notion that the Angels are some how going to take over or have taken over the City is stupid and boring. Mark Writers need to come up with a better topic. It makes me want more tiresome articles about how Tim Tebow is awesome because he wins against awful teams and circumcises Filipino boys in the off season.